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7 Soldiers

  
  

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SiliconDream
04:33 / 31.10.06
Actually, the age issue might be combined with the above, along with the two names for Aurakles' Spear™. In the distant pre-Avalon past, when he's flame-haired, vigorous, unselfconsciously successful at the superhero gig, he sires the "Love" line leading to Alix. After he's broken by the Sheeda, perhaps after MM liberates him and he ends up wandering through time and space, he sires the "Vengeance" line leading to Lance...greyed and faded now, no longer with that knack for success, but now subconsciously driven to superherodom, to reclaim his former power and youth and revenge himself on the Sheeda. And, of course, that second line is now marked with the remembered, prophetic name "Harrower."
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:19 / 31.10.06
This all comes down to the will-they-won't-they thing again, doesn't it?

Art-wise, did anyone else double-take and have to check that Carla and her mother didn't accidentally mow down Zatanna in the street after She Awakens The Universe?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:55 / 31.10.06
I'm not saying anything like "7S Sux" so I hope it's not my position that's being caricatured that way. My main point is again illustrated by the fact that anyone trying to explain when, why and how its key issues were resolved has to stretch interpretations and often offers a different explanation to the person just above or below them.

Dies: MM gets shot in the head. Dead. But he's the god of escape, so he escapes death (or seems to: maybe that's Scott Free pr another MM avatar at the end).

Betrayal: Klarion has no love for the Sheeda, but in the end does not fight them, fucks with frank & then becomes Sheeda King. Certainly a betrayal of the SSoV stuggle and his own initial dislike for the Sheeda, no?

Never Meet: this is/is not a TEAM book, and given that in #0 the SSoV get killed all together, having a few of the #1 team encounter one another does not realy meet the criterion of the SSoV meeting up AS A TEAM.


These justifications are all based around ideas like "seems to", "could be read as", "from one point of view".

I still feel that to build up a character's shock death all the way through a maxi-series, and then have the revelation that it's Mister Miracle, who's already died once and is obviously going to come back to life this second time, is not really living up to expectations.

Klarion's "betrayal" is now being interpreted as a betrayal of his own original feelings. He can't exactly betray the Seven Soldiers' struggle against the Sheeda, becuase he only cast himself as a soldier at the end of his own miniseries and there is no concerted war against the Sheeda until this final issue. It seems fickle, sure, and technically I can understand how it could be fitted into the betrayal box, but I don't think it's what anyone would have expected from the promise that one of the soldiers would betray the others.

I can also see how it could be claimed that SS is a more interesting work because it defied mainstream expectations, but again, it just doesn't really satisfy me when betrayals and character deaths mean so little, because firstly they've had no chance to build up any resonance (Mister Miracle has only just died; Klarion has only just joined the fight) and secondly they have so little consequence (Mister Miracle comes back two pages later; Klarion is apparently fighting alongside Robin in current continuity).

I don't mean to harp on these central questions about the betrayal and death as if they ruin the whole thing, but they were symptomatic for me of a sense that this project wasn't actually thoroughly thought-out, and that many readers are connecting the dots and making excuses on Morrison's behalf, coming up with different ways that the story could work in the way it seemed it was going to, if you look at it from a certain angle, stretch a few definitions and forgive a few shortcomings.

I guess I'm just repeating myself here, and I'll probably end up repeating the same things again if I keep up this discussion, so maybe we should leave it soon with the conclusion that I'm glad you all enjoyed it more than I did, and I'm sorry I didn't enjoy it more ~ though having said that, I did enjoy it, and I'm not sorry I was involved and invested in Seven Soldiers during its run.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:01 / 31.10.06
On a slightly different tack, though, I thought the way Gloriana was killed ~ a swordfight, an arrow through the neck and then run over by a car ~ was disappointingly mainstream superhero-fight stuff, considering the interesting nature of the Sheeda as mythical, world-devouring evil, as the horrible truth behind "Faerie" folklore and as future humans mining the past. For her to be dealt with in physical combat like that, with one "soldier" wounding her, one spearing her and one accidentally (yes, it was Fate, I know) smashing a car into her, seemed a bit of a crass comedown.

But then, I was predicting some over-ambitious and probably pretentious development where the Sheeda can't defeat these 7 Soldiers because they're only used to the traditional narrative of a hero team, and like us the readers, struggle to make sense of seven apparently disconnected miniseries.
 
 
Spaniel
09:45 / 31.10.06
MW, just so you don't feel so alone, I share your misgivings about Klarion's betrayal and Mr Miracle's death. They were totally flat dramatically and that's a problem that relates to the construction of the series as a whole.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
09:47 / 31.10.06
the 7S were the embodiement of Mythical, wonderstarr, so...


I don't think it was ever going to come together in the way I would have found satisfactory: that is, with a sense that the author knew where he was going the whole time, and was in full confident control of all the narratives.

a time travel narrative this long and one that discusses a bit of free will versus destiny surely WAS planned far ahead. of course minor tweaks might have been done for the sake of fine tuning in the script.

even as the editor admited he didn't knew the ending beforehand doesn't prove the writer didn't know it. and even if he didn't, the story structure still stands as very cleverly sewn.
 
 
Sniv
11:59 / 31.10.06
Miss W - Klarion is apparently fighting alongside Robin in current continuity

Not to nitpick too much, but this issue isn't even out yet, and we therefore have no idea what it exactly is about. Apparently Robin is helping to find Teekl, but that's most of the info we have. It's not like the solicit says Klarion and Robin team-up to fight the Joker and save Gotham City, is it?

And Klarion as a capricious, self-interested fairy-King with the wonder of a child sounds perfect to me, and seems to allow the character sgnificant movement around the DCU as both and antagonist and team-up buddy. I don't see where this contradicts anything.
 
 
Grady Hendrix
12:43 / 31.10.06
I enjoyed SS but I enjoyed it despite the problems that exist with it. They aren't world-shattering problems, but the biggest one seems to be that it requires an awful lot of people to connect an awful lot of dots to make the whole project make much sense.

On the level of spectacle and emotional rushes I thought this was a lot of fun, but some of the plot points really only seem to be accessible to those willing to spend a long time deciphering them. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's valid that some readers (myself included) find that it's detrimental to their enjoyment of the story.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:05 / 31.10.06
I do feel a bit of a minority here, but it's not like I'm trying to say the whole project was a waste of time or a disaster, by any means.


a time travel narrative this long and one that discusses a bit of free will versus destiny surely WAS planned far ahead. of course minor tweaks might have been done for the sake of fine tuning in the script.

Well, you would think. It felt like big letdowns in terms of narrative resonance to me. People are talking on the other, "GM Bites" thread, about the wonderful moments of emotional power he's produced in the past. I'm a sucker for those as much as anyone... I get wet eyes at the right pages of Doom Patrol, We3 and Animal Man. I didn't feel any kind of heartwrench in Seven Soldiers, because I didn't get to know any of the characters enough despite them each having four issues to themselves, and because nothing that happened to them seemed to really matter. Mister Miracle is always "dying". Klarion is a capricious, whimsical little devil whose change in loyalties just seemed like a teenage fad.

Zatanna turning to the fourth wall and appealing for the reader's help ~ like Mister Miracle "dying", we've already seen it in her miniseries. It's not a radical twist now; it's a replay. (He's already played that device enough in other comics anyway.)

The Guardian's embrace with his girl was presented as a Hollywood dramatic and romantic finale ~ you can almost hear the theme music rise ~ but is that really a big deal story development, even on a personal level? He fights with his fiancee and they make it up?

Frankenstein is pretty much wasted in the final issue, after taking such a heavyweight, promising role in the second half of the saga and becoming, for my money, one of the strongest characters. Here he gets one page and becomes a zombie slave.

Bulleteer... what kind of personal journey does she experience in this conclusion? She seems victim of everything that happens to her. She kills the Queen of the Sheeda by accident, without even realising she's in the middle of a war against an army that razed Camelot. She goes through this episode in a daze like a dumb pawn. Misty is apparently pwned within two pages, as well. A whole long-running, cross-issue story-strand, about the dice and Misty's true identity, is dropped because a cat gets the better of her. Again, Gloriana's defeat has nothing to do with Misty... it's just a superhero team-up with a magic sword and arrow.

And the big twist is carried by I, Spyder? How are we supposed to care about this guy, any more than we care that it's Zor (?) getting sewn inside the suit? Why are these narrative "revelations" focused on characters we've barely been introduced to, while the main, title figures are reduced to cameos?





Not to nitpick too much, but this issue isn't even out yet, and we therefore have no idea what it exactly is about. Apparently Robin is helping to find Teekl, but that's most of the info we have. It's not like the solicit says Klarion and Robin team-up to fight the Joker and save Gotham City, is it?


No, but it does seem a dramatic shift in tone that doesn't really tally with what we see of Klarion in this final issue.


And Klarion as a capricious, self-interested fairy-King with the wonder of a child sounds perfect to me, and seems to allow the character sgnificant movement around the DCU as both and antagonist and team-up buddy. I don't see where this contradicts anything.


Klarion as king of the army that destroyed several mortal civilisations doesn't contradict Klarion as Robin's pal seeking a lost cat?

Ironically, what was promised for Seven Soldiers is right here on page 1. Of course, this is DC solicit stuff and not straight from the mind of Grant Morrison, but honestly... look at what it claims, compared to how the series actually panned out. This isn't just me expecting a different sort of comic because I would have liked something different to what GM was actually writing: this is me expecting something because it was spelled out before Seven Soldiers #0.


A devastating global threat is on its way — one never imagined nor prepared for. It consumes entire civilizations and leaves behind only ruins. It razed Camelot and bombed the Rama kingdoms back to dirt. It strip-mines and enslaves whole cultures. Its hunger is unstoppable; its origins, unspeakable. Now this devouring empire of cruelty-without-limits has set its sights on the treasures of the 21st century.


And now it's wiped out in 2006, after millennia of successful ravaging, with a magic sword, a trick arrow and a car crash. What kind of global threat is that?


Seven reluctant champions must arise and somehow work together to save the world...without ever meeting one another.

Uh-huh. Depends on your definition of "meet". I suppose Klarion and Frankenstein aren't formally introduced, so they don't really meet despite having a conversation. Guardian and Bulleteer are in the same panel, but they don't know each other's names, so... yeah.



Who lives? Who dies? Who washes the dishes? Who betrays humankind to its once and future Enemy? Get the answers to these questions and many more

Do you see where I'm coming from, when these key questions were posed in the original solicits? Klarion's betrayal doesn't play like handing over humankind to its enemy. And we never found out who washed the dishes.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:37 / 31.10.06
And now it's wiped out in 2006, after millennia of successful ravaging, with a magic sword, a trick arrow and a car crash. What kind of global threat is that?

You have read The War Of The Worlds, yeah?

Sorry, not meaning to sound snarky. I'm finding your posts here very interesting, and as always good reading. I think we were looking for different things. I got pretty much what I wanted (though I admit the ending seemed a little rushed, but right from the beginning I found it hard to imagine how that WOULDN'T be the case), and you clearly didn't. Thing is- a Soldier did die, and a Soldier did turn traitor. You weren't convinced by this- that's fair enough. I'm not sure you can say you didn't get what you were sold, though- just that it wasn't how you'd have liked it to be. Most of your other points seem a matter of opinion, much like mine. And I appreciate reading a different opinion from mine, I honestly do.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:39 / 31.10.06
You're right about the dishes, though.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
15:44 / 31.10.06
The defeat of the aliens in The War of the Worlds is a twist, though, It is surprising, generically. We don't expect an alien race to be wiped out that way. That's why you can still remember and cite it now, because it's genius.

Wiping out a global supervillain, in a superhero comic, through a knight with a magic sword, a vigilante with a trick arrow, and a car crash, is not any kind of twist on generic conventions.

I'm also not disappointed with SS #1 solely because it didn't tick the boxes set up at the beginning ~ as I've said, I just didn't find it satisfying on a storytelling or character level. The characters we'd kind of gotten to know were dealt with as briefly as minor figures we couldn't be expected to care about. There wasn't enough payoff for me. There were great moments, but I almost felt like I was walking through a gallery of Seven Soldiers art, rather than having a story wrapped up for me.

Thanks for the respect and it's mutual ~ I'm not saying anyone who defends SS is a mug. In one way it's a tribute to the comic that we can discuss it at such length.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:36 / 31.10.06
The thing that occurs is that the story isn't over. The Sheeda are still around, they still have their time machines so why does Gloriana's death solve everyone's problem? Misty says that if she replaced her mother she would have to lead them to conquer the world anyway, so why should Klarion sitting on the throne save the planet? I may be missing something but it looks as though, due to lack of space, GM tries to shift the story from being 'The Sheeda are a menace' to 'Gloriana is the menace', can someone point out to me where I'm going wrong?
 
 
Axel Lambert
16:41 / 31.10.06
One thing that I was hoping to see explained was what the Sheeda really were. Future humans, yeah, but why is Gloriana so different from the other Sheedas (tentacles, sucking blood - and didn't she melt away at one point?!). And what's the deal with the spineriders? Are they related to Gloriana? To Mr Melmoth and Misty? Are they future humans even? Why do they start as maggots? What's with the giant spiders that are both machines and alive it seems. What is "spider-sex" and why did Mr Melmoth return to Klarions town? He says he had created the guards, even having a built-in off button. What was that about? At one point, I thought he might have created Gloriana, too, as in the Jorge/Hanna Control story! And we are told Gloriana has the jellyfish as totem, and Melmoth says the Sheeda keep their familiars inside. What was that about?
 
 
Spaniel
17:28 / 31.10.06
I think you're interested in rather too much detail. SS suffered as a whole because it didn't have enough room to breathe, delving into the biology of the sheeda would've compounded the problem, IMO.

Also, each to their own and all, but that's a level of geekiness I don't need in my comicbooks. They're from a bazillion years in the future, they're bound to be a bit odd.

Stoats, I think MW has raised some* perfectly valid points about the dramatic construction of SS, and I'm not sure this stuff can simply be reduced to subjective opinion. That's not to say, of course, that you're not allowed to enjoy everything that MW was disatisfied by, just that it's worth considering whether the series could've been better than it was. I for one think it could've been.

*Not too sure where I stand on Gloriana's death, fer example, but totally agree with his assessment of the dramatic impact of most of the characters' fates
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:21 / 31.10.06
Well, I did already say that possibly the ambition kind of outstripped the story- since then I've been talking about the ways in which it worked for me, rather than those in which it didn't. (My "stuff I don't really get" stuff has been in the GM Bites thread, though I must admit I'm starting to get very confused between the two).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:21 / 31.10.06
Oh, and I have said at least once that I thought the ending was rushed.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:41 / 31.10.06
Our Lady: The Sheeda are still around, they still have their time machines so why does Gloriana's death solve everyone's problem? Misty says that if she replaced her mother she would have to lead them to conquer the world anyway, so why should Klarion sitting on the throne save the planet? I may be missing something but it looks as though, due to lack of space, GM tries to shift the story from being 'The Sheeda are a menace' to 'Gloriana is the menace', can someone point out to me where I'm going wrong?

(I basically quoted almost your entire post, but whatever)

I'd suggest that the world hasn't been saved, not in the ultimate manner we'd expect. The current Harrowing has ended, apparently, and only for now. Possibly this was to allow for the Sheeda to return in some manner. Klarion doesn't save the world by taking over the crown, from what we see, although only Franky even knows anything of the sort happened, and possibly Misty. Misty's point is that there's an inevitability to the proceedings, no matter who is in power; weathering the storm is the issue. Ensuring that enough people survive to restart civilization in the worst case scenario.

The Seven Soldiers saved the day by killing Gloriana and postponing the inevitable. This is prefigured in the text; Zatara didn't succeed in destroying the Red God of Ys, he only slowed him down to a crawl.
 
 
diz
05:38 / 01.11.06
And presumably this is Darkseid from the far future that thinks he's won, not present Darkseid?

Actually, no, I think this is present Darkseid, and he's won. I seem to remember it being noted that the New Gods were left out of Infinite Crisis for a reason - that reason apparently being that Darkseid's defeated them and they're in hiding on Earth, as seen in SS: Mister Miracle.

I also seem to remember hearing that there's a Big Fourth World Story (possibly a major crossover) in the works spinning out of Seven Soldiers, 52, and IC.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:51 / 01.11.06
The Seven Soldiers saved the day by killing Gloriana and postponing the inevitable.

Not to harp on, but even this anticlimax didn't quite come to pass. Shining Knight wounded Gloriana. Bulleteer finished her by accident/fate, at any rate unaware of her role in the war.

I, Spyder tipped the balance, but he wasn't one of the Soldiers... or at least, I presume not, as I'm thinking Seven Soldiers refers to the seven individuals who got their names on the front of seven comic book miniseries under the banner Seven Soldiers of Victory. If I, Spyder is a soldier, and... what, Klarion isn't? then that's interesting I suppose but I don't know if it makes much sense, or just disrupts the overall coherence even more.

Guardian fought off some insects hand-to-hand, and did no more than the suited-up citizens of Manhattan. Klarion furthered the cause of the Sheeda, rather than stopping it. Frankenstein became his zombie. Zatanna... what? Cast a spell that... honestly, that what? Did that spell even work? I didn't see it followed by the seven soldiers striking, unless the magic means "strike" in terms of "refuse to do your job until you get better labour conditions". Mister Miracle got Aurakles free, which seemed to be part of a whole different sub-plot confined to his miniseries, except for the (tenuous?) stuff about Alix being the spear. I don't really see how his deal with Darkseid helped defeat the Sheeda.

The more you examine it, the more this series didn't provide the basic expected scenes: the Seven Soldiers did not defeat the Sheeda in any real sense.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:16 / 01.11.06
I think the idea is that Zatanna cast the spell that put the Seven Soldiers into action. Or guaranteed that they win.

Which it seems they didn't...

Err...

Well, yeah, confusing, but a couple of ideas to play with, I suppose.

Look I just really enjoyed this series, alright?!?!
Leave me alone!!!111!!!
 
 
Spaniel
11:38 / 01.11.06
I've been trying to boil down what it is that I enjoyed about SS, and I think it comes down to this: I loved a number of the individual episodes of some of the individual series, and really liked some of the individual series plotlines, and was very, very keen on some of the project's artistic flourishes. Unfortunately I wasn't too keen on the overarching structure and plot.

It is possible to have your whinge and eat it, I feel.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:48 / 01.11.06
So, basically you enjoyed a lot of the detail. I think that's par for the course w/ most Morrison comics.
 
 
Spaniel
12:58 / 01.11.06
Well, that depends on what you mean by detail. The a lot of the stuff I've referenced counts as the substance of the work if you're not looking from the over-arching plot down
 
 
Robert B
13:39 / 01.11.06
I think the final issue could have benefited from a few more pages but I thought it was a good ending to a good series. I reread them all in the order from the trades and I'm glad I did as I think my old brain may have missed a lot of the cool bits from the finale.
 
 
PatrickMM
17:49 / 01.11.06
But they did defeat the Sheeda. The whole series is about children being forced into the role provided for them by a malevolent parent figure, i.e. The Time Tailor's suits for the newsboy army or Misty's fear that by defeating her mother, she will become her. So, they kill the old queen, and rather than Misty taking on the role she did not want, Klarion becomes king of the Sheeda, and we're led to believe that he will lead them in a new direction, less world destroying parasites, and more wacky, pranksters tripping through time.

Basically, everyone got out of the role that destiny had seemingly provided for them and they got to choose their own path. That's what Zatanna's spell is designed to do, break down the binary road between righteousness and wickedness and open up a third path.
 
 
PatrickMM
18:00 / 01.11.06
And I'll more generally add that I did a major write-up of the issue over on my blog. The issue has so much in there, it pretty much demands a lot of analysis. But, I don't think it's so dense as to become emotionless. I think GM pulled off the near impossible of giving everyone, with the possible exception of Frankenstein, a really fitting conclusion. The basic problems were resolved, and as GM/The Unknown Man, says, everyone got a happy ending. I would have loved for everyone to get a page like Ystina which provided really fitting closure, but that wasn't absolutely necessary.

And about Frank, I'd echo what was already mentioned, that the last issue of his series was pretty much his contribution to the battle, so if anyone had to be off center now, it should be him.

I'd have loved for this issue to have about eight more pages, and it's really frustrating if Grant's original script really was 80 pages that we didn't get the chance to see it realized. If the scheduling had worked, it would have been great if he'd given that to JH right after issue 0, so it would have been ready to go right when the minis finished. But, it worked out fine as was.

And a couple of questions. What are the major appearances for the SS characters after the end of this series? I've heard about some in 52, but anything particularly notable? Also, has GM done any interviews talking about this issue, particularly on the nature of the Seven Unknown Men? I'd love to see someone do a really in depth interview with him about the series now that it's over, discussing his perception of the overall themes, as well as strengths and failures of the project. I definitely had some issues along the way, but on the whole, this stands as Grant's most ambitious comic since The Invisibles, and one of the best things he's ever done.
 
 
Spaniel
18:29 / 01.11.06
What do you think of the dramatic power of, say, Mr Miracle's, resurrection, Patrick? I find it curious that only MW and I seem to think that the conclusions largely lacked dramatic punch.

It just seems startlingly obvious to me that a man rising from the dead is only a big deal if he hasn't done it before. To my mind MM's story reached its dramatic conclusion (with him rising from the dead) months ago, this was just repetition.
 
 
PatrickMM
19:53 / 01.11.06
For me, it wasn't the fact that Shilo came back to life that gave it dramatic punch, it was more about the rebirth of this archetypal incarnation of heroism. Earlier, we see Dark Side refer to Shilo as the incarnation of freedom, and by killing him, he seems to ensure the rule of darkness over reality. However, through Zatanna's spell and a bunch of other stuff, the series refutes this idea of a locked in destiny, which culminates in that really powerful final image, of the ultimate avatar of agency rising from the grave, indicating that iin the future, we have the capacity to claim the sort of heroism, the role of God, that he has.

I would agree that it's a bit of a cop out to build up this whole "A Soldier will Die!!!!" thing and then have it be such an obvious copout. I feel like a lot of the critique on the thread here stems more from the series not living up to the marketing hype, rather than any deficiency in the work itself. I read most of it in trade, then got the final issues back in June, and I was surprised to see the really hyperbolic marketing in the back of every issue. I think it did live up to the promise of a multi-strand Altman style superhero narrative, even if every piece of it did not quite stand alone. I haven't done it, so I can't say for sure, but I do feel that you can get a pretty solid story by reading any given miniseries and then issue #1.

But, bringing it back, I don't think that this death is made less powerful by what happens in the miniseries. The way I read it, the miniseries was all a mental experience, a test designed by the New Gods. So, his 'deaths' in the miniseries weren't really death, it was just one of a spiralling series of ordeals to make him stronger. When Dark Side shoots him here, he takes things out of the realm of the supernatural and into cold reality. I think it's a shockingly abrupt moment, and works in that respect. Miracle's rebirth therefore fulfills the theme present in his miniseries of transcending human weakness and becoming Godlike beings.

I read all of Morrison's JLA a few months ago, and what Metron says there really helped me get what's going on in both the MM series and in SS#1. He talks about the idea that the New Gods were the predecessors of Earth's superheroes and now they are workiing to show humanity the way to move forward. It's just like what we see in the opening of SS#1. At the end of the last issue, when everyone was briefly giiven superpowers, Metron says something like "We have shown you the world you can have. Now, it's up to you to make it so." I feel like Shilo's rebirth is the first step in this journey, he's become the first human to have the power of the New Gods and now, he can lead humanity to a new stage of evolution.

Admittedly, that entire conflict feels peripheral to the Sheeda stuff. However, it's integrated on the thematic level, all the characters need to escape the worldly encumbrances that hold them back from heroism. Shilo escapes the ultimate fate, which is death, and his conquering of that indicates the power of the third path, of personal choice.

And, on an emotional level, I think it's a very powerful statement of human resilience over darkness. Much like Flex Mentallo's final page, it speaks of the power of wonder and light to overcome human darkness and in that one page totally disproves the idea that Dark Side will ever defeat humanity.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:42 / 02.11.06
holy crap that was good. i don't confess to be anywhere near as analytical as you all, so i'm happy to just read all of your great comments.

my only complaint is that i was hoping for a clearer (and more centrally meaningful) explanation of the Newsboy Army/Captain 7 deal. Does anyone have a handle on it to the degree that they could explain it in a simple way? I'm still kind of confused.

Also, Millions is still alive? His caption said "dead at 14".
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:51 / 02.11.06
Oh shit. Ed + Suzi secret relationship evidence: "Wow. Machines love her too."

This makes more sense now. Captain 7 kills Suzi out of jealousy/rage once the blonde blue-eyed babies are born.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:28 / 02.11.06
Klarion becomes king of the Sheeda, and we're led to believe that he will lead them in a new direction, less world destroying parasites, and more wacky, pranksters tripping through time.

I like your analysis, Patrick, but there's no solid evidence for the above reading. I don't see how you can see the future of the Sheeda under Klarion just from his expression in one splash page. As such, there's no way we can conclude they beat the Sheeda. Klarion changed the Sheeda leadership, that's all. And for the spell "seven soldiers strike" to mean "each of you find your own path between righteousness and wickedness" suggests that Zatanna's magic works in rather a more free-interpretive way than we've ever been led to believe.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:24 / 02.11.06
I don't know, MW, I think the 'wacky pranksters' interpretation has less to do with the expression on Klarion's face and more to do with our overall impression of the character: fickle, disobedient, adventurous, innocent and, above all, naughty.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:47 / 02.11.06
Well, I don't know... you put a devil-child (a witch-boy, for God's sake!) in charge of an army that's devastated human civilisations since the year dot, and I don't look forward to merry pranks. His final splash looked like Kid Joker, and not in a reassuring way.

I think it's a very interesting argument though that the DC hype may have misrepresented what GM was actually trying to do with this series, and that my expectations (which were to some extent disappointed) were falsely constructed by the way DC presented the project.
 
 
Spaniel
10:46 / 02.11.06
The way I read it, the miniseries was all a mental experience, a test designed by the New Gods. So, his 'deaths' in the miniseries weren't really death, it was just one of a spiralling series of ordeals to make him stronger.

Hmmm, this is GM we're talking about, and given his track record I'm not sure that reading it as a purely mental process holds up. In fact, given Grant's historical predilection for blurring the lines between fiction, reality and allegory* I'd say that counts as reaching.

That's not, of course, to suggest that you've said nothing interesting about the series, Patrick. I know that pursuing this one avenue must look a lot like pedantry but I don't intend it to be read that way. To my mind SS doesn't live or die on whether MM's ending was a bit bunt.


And let's not forget that this was a story where the character in question escaped from a black hole.
 
  

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