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7 Soldiers

 
  

Page: 1 ... 2829303132(33)3435363738... 39

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:43 / 27.10.06
What say we round up a posse, ride into the "Seven Soldiers Sucks" thread and pwn the h8rz?

(I have no idea what that means).
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:56 / 27.10.06
Spoilers ho.















Are we to presume that Princess "Misty" Rhiannon is now a resident of the Twenty-First Century, possibly doomed to walk the long centuries back to her homelands? Implication being that she is Melmoth and our boy K is Gloriana.

I now desperately want there to be a Shining Knight series with a flavour of the Silver Age Supergirl and Misty as a member of Ystina's new round table, possibly fulfilling the Merlin role. Possibly with Klarion as their opponent.

Note that the opening sequences includes a reference to "Arthur and his band" being led to Gorias by "the Merlin." So, was Gwdyion once a member of the Round Table? Did Arthur have more than a couple of the treasures?

I'm still not exactly sure of the meaning behind the spear. Alix or Ford Mustang or Spyder? I liked Spyder's appearance and his redemption or second betrayal.

Sheeda Croakspeak. Heh.

The storybook pages are beautiful. Reminded me - obviously - of Little Margie in Misty (heh) Magic Land.

That one page of Zatanna's is probably my favourite out of the book, beyond our Splash Page of Hell-Klarion. Misty doesn't want to stop Gloriana because she'd have to become the next queen; Zatanna continues her redemption-as-mother and mentor role. "You said there was a prophecy about seven soldiers. Don't let anybody tell you what you have to be, Misty. That was my mistake. You know the best bit about magic? It's not about the self-improvement, or the theory. It's not about illusion and trickery. It's all about doing the impossible."

Misty can set aside the keys to the Kingdom, just as Klarion can pick them up; nobody tells you who to be, and you can be many things.

Ystina faces Galahad's fate, and Dark Side's proposed "bare knuckle demi-gods" fight to the death mirrors her contest with him at the end of Shining Knight.

I come with God-sight now!
 
 
The Falcon
00:24 / 28.10.06
I'm fairly sure Alix is the spear, given every ref to that, and the fact I didn't see a Mustang in Aurakles cave, papes. Spyder, though; is it a stretch to think that as Shilo dies, he steps to the plate to take position as one of the seven?
 
 
Mug Chum
00:42 / 28.10.06
Just a quick question.

I'm not following 52 or anything else outside this on the DC universe. Is there anything I might be missing here on 7S by being clueless on what already happened on some other DC Universe issue? Like, say, "Klarion turned out to be a major EvilKing faking himself out to others as a minor player making appearances on Robin covers as his old self", or something like that? You know, those sort of tones like "and this is how Aurakles got freed before he removed Superman's left nut". Or "this is the newspaper article of the next day after the battle on 52 #5"...

Cause it's the one thing I hate the most, feeling like I might be missing something even though I/it feel(s) so complete.

------------

Weird thing, I always thought throughout the entire series that the killing of Gloriana -- evil queen, the bad mother one resents -- would be more symbolical, and not literally fighting her. I thought it was one thing Morrison was deliberately working on as part of the "immaturity"/ arrested development theme. Maybe I was wrong, or maybe I just haven't picked up his own way of working that.

------------

And Grady, you're rude.
(and by the way, geek comics' schedule anticipation isn't quite my favorite type of magic -- altough it's a frequent feature on my calendar when it comes to GM -- and it doesn't qualifies a 'Ultimate Spiderman' with Dickens on those grounds alone. And it sure isn't the reason why I buy GM's comics. I tend to go for... ahhmm, something else. Emotion, Crazyness, Brain, Magic etc etc yada yada. Cliffhangers, anticipation and some crazy emotions are inside as well as part of the "magic", the fabric of the lace on the package -- but I'd still like to have a polite conversation about it, and not just be told to stick my expectations up my ass -- specially when those are not just random stupid ones. "Theoretical shamanistic BS" is the diamond cherry on top of everything that comes out of that Bald Man's kitchen and, in this work in particular, a lot of the fudge, treated as simple things of life)

(I know you didn't "directed to no one in particular", but since I'm the only one who brought it up, I made a special detour since my ass is soring from theoretical shaministic BS. And since, of course, there was no indication or tone of humour or playfullness, just rude for rude's sake)

ps: I'm very sorry if I misunderstood you, or if your playful tone didn't came across. Just a bad week, and I took it personal.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:56 / 28.10.06
Spyder is the Unknown Soldier in the way that Alix was previously the Missing Soldier. I like that.
 
 
The Falcon
01:02 / 28.10.06
It's all incomplete and ongoing in a way, of course, being part of a comics yooniverse but certainly my reading of 52 hasn't coloured in any way (apart from expectations on the dead body front, maybe) my reading of 7S. If anything, I think the only near-necessary companion is the Wein story from JLofA #100-102 from the 70s which (apparently, I dunno actually, not read it myself) predicates a lot of the stuff here. It's in one of the Crisis on Multiple Earths trades, if anyone's interested, vol. 3 I think.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:05 / 28.10.06
If I have some cash about next Wednesday, I might try to track it down.

But: you know. The old Gold place in Slaughter Swamp? This is also the Man in Black's shack in the desert from Lost Highway. Horrible things happen in both houses, horrible straight-fictionjacket things--
 
 
Mug Chum
01:12 / 28.10.06
Thanks Falc.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:17 / 28.10.06
I'm still trying to suss out the Bad Mother/Growing Up thing, Sparrow, so want to talk a little more of that? Misty's terrified that killing the bad mother will make her the bad mother but - hm. Zatanna, ironically acting as a mentor figure, supposes that true growing up is not defining yourself by your parents at all? Ironic, really, given she's a legacy character who's defined by her father. Maybe this is Zee growing up as well.

Father Box is important there somehow; also note that Father Box's binary state reminds of the Mother Box owned by the Forever People; they shared one between them and it segmented five ways in certain circumstances.
 
 
Mug Chum
01:36 / 28.10.06
I think the "spear not thrown" might be relating to a grounded arrested development. Agressiveness towards vilified "not-self" blockades (bad mothers motif, for instance), not taking responsability for yourself, your doings, your lackings etc.

It's all very recurrent, no? That bad-evil parents figures complex, those freudians undercurrents, the wife and mistress fighting each other (Sally Sonic, just another bitch stealing Elektra's daddy), the dozens I can't remember properly, the imature agressiveness towards these vilifed figures, the fear in taking their place, it's responsability (the symbolic, and true, killing) etc.

It's a fail-safe magic of sorts no? Guaranting that even if IT doesn't strikes (as in, DO strike by not growing, by not taking flight. By throwing the lance and not the Lance), it comes through in the end afterall. It does strikes. "Somehow we beat them".

Well that's just what I like to read in that.
 
 
Mug Chum
01:52 / 28.10.06
Well Papers I'm trying to figure it out as well. Most of what I get out of it is pretty corny. I think a freudian (with a tad of Jungian) reading on 7S would be killer. It's a shame I know very little about their work (but the little I know about, it's as if Morrison is very conscious on it -- not that he's a Freud fan, not even close, but very conscious on recurrent growth patterns and recurrent storytelling patterns).

I'm a bit wasted right now, so I won't be really able to explain myself properly. But Zatanna's journey (her four minis) is the most perfect encapsulation of what I think the series is about when it concerns growin' up. It's gorgeously Elektra, daddy's girl and Zorina (not only being that S&M bad girl, but that unconscious hostil relationship with him, the unresolved business, being someone who you think would disappoint the person etc) as arrested development.
 
 
LDones
02:12 / 28.10.06
I thought the Spear Not Thrown was pretty obvious, even from the 7 page preview. It's Aurakles' bloodline. Genetic seed. Phallic metaphors are bread and butter for La Moz.

Love and vengeance. Sex and reproduction as love between humans. Sex and reproduction as vengeance against death.

He had a child to one day conquer everything he could not. Alix was his last descendant, and she (regardless of the fact that it was completely by chance) conquered the Last Enemy of Aurakles and ancient cities of the New Gods. The Last Enemy of Camelot. The spear found its mark when she rammed her car into the Queen of the Last Empire.

I think the cop telling her 'You're free' is a nod from the 7 Unknown Men that they'll leave her alone now.
 
 
Mug Chum
02:16 / 28.10.06
>>>>Love and vengeance. Sex and reproduction

Ooh that's good. There's nothing like heritage to keep up the banana stand. Still feels weird though calling it "not thrown".
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
02:40 / 28.10.06
Need to parse and consider the Bad Mother some more, and Misty as the Terrified Daughter.

Thinking about the issue of identity in the Seven: Only one has a secret one.

Zatanna Zatara's an A-list hero but has no need to hide her face (other than, perhaps, her "Ms. Katonic" alias used for practice material performed on the road; not actually brought up in SS, though).

Shilo Norman wears a mask but Mister Miracle is a public stage name, everybody knows who he is.

Frankenstein has assumed a name that was already associated with him and you ain't hiding those shoulders - he's the decomposing Clark Kent.

Alix Harrower doesn't really have one either - sure, she's the Bulleteer, but as she does bodyguard work and has no way of hiding her new state of being, it's not worth the disguise; they need to know who to make the cheque out to

Jake Jordan is publically known - through his own namesake publication - as the Manhattan Guardian.

Klarion is discovering his own identity, he doesn't need a second one; he talks of roles to play but never hides behind them.

Only Ystina has a secret identity, which is disguised as a lack of one, but I think it was discussed in the Shining Knight thread - I should go reread - that she is actually "allowed to be more herself" by appearing as a boy. And does it make it a secret, if you just drop one vowel? As well, she reclaims power by revealing herself.
 
 
--
03:28 / 28.10.06
Well, maybe I WAS being a tad too harsh on old GM a few days ago. I reread all the SS issues leading up to this one recently and it's better than I remembered. I guess this series works better taken as a whole rather than as individual issues, because it lets you fet over the weaker moments (such as the whole "Bulleteer" series, which I just did not like at all). As it is, it's a flawed masterpiece, but still great stuff... It won't make me forget "The Invisibles" or "Doom Patrol" anytime soon, but at the very least it gives one a lot to analyze.

What I liked? Well, I don't mind how a lot of it isn't explained to you. It gives you something to do with the book later on, if anything. Nothing bad about "filling in the blanks" (Hell, you can literally do that in this issue with the crossword puzzle). I love the whole chaotic, mindbending aspect of it, how the comic feels like it's spiraling completely out of control. And the artwork was incredible... At first I thought the art was a group effort thing, utilizing all the artists from the previous books, so I was shocked when I found out it was just one guy! Impressive.

What I didn't like? Well, in some aspects parts seemed a little bit rushed... It probably didn't help that there were too many fucking characters, not all of which really paid off for me (such as the Bride). In fact, some of the characters, like Frank, got pretty much shafted (Klarion's transition seemed a little out of character too, but it strikes me that he would view ruling the Sheeda as a fun thing rather than as something evil and terrible). And as much as I like "figuring it out yourself", a bit of help would be nice. Are we to assume that the Sheeda retreated (if so, some exposition of that would have been nice). And if they lost the Harrowing, what was all that on the final pages about how evil won and the dark aeon and all that bollocks? Where the hell did Aurakles go? I'm still a little confused about all the Mister Miracle stuff (To be honest, the Mister Miracle storyline in general never made a great deal of sense to me... I'll have to give it another read one day).

I also didn't like how the Nebulon man didn't appear in this issue, as the series made it seem like he was a really prominent character. I had hoped that his "death" in "Frankenstein #4" wasn't his actual send-off, but maybe I was wrong. However, Zatana DOES say "Awake Universe!" and Nebulon was a universe, so... Does that mean anything? By killing him, did Frankenstein "free" him, in the way that death freed Mister Miracle (there seems to be a lot of examples in this series of characters breaking out of bondage). Maybe I'm way off with this?

Some things that make me wonder:

1.) In the final issue of the Guardian storyline, there's a panel of the newsboy army whacking some blindfolded guy with a baseball bat. What the heck is that all about anyway? I never got the connection there.

2.) In this issue we find out that the Sheeda is the human race, evolved, but in the Zor issue it's said that he introduced the Sheeda into the universe as a virus or something like that. H'mm?

3.) Any ideas where Misty and Zatana vanished off to?

4.) What dp you think the reference to the "Third Path" is? (Wait, never mind... that probably ties in with Zatana'a statement about not letting anyone tell you what to be).

5.) According to the comic, "Castle Revolving" is the name of the Sheeda flagship. Son what the hell is that weird looking bizarre city thing that appears on page 7, 10, 21-22? (and also appeared in SS#0)? Whatever that thing is, it looks really cool.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:50 / 28.10.06
Sypha: I also didn't like how the Nebulon man didn't appear in this issue, as the series made it seem like he was a really prominent character. I had hoped that his "death" in "Frankenstein #4" wasn't his actual send-off, but maybe I was wrong. However, Zatana DOES say "Awake Universe!" and Nebulon was a universe, so... Does that mean anything? By killing him, did Frankenstein "free" him, in the way that death freed Mister Miracle (there seems to be a lot of examples in this series of characters breaking out of bondage). Maybe I'm way off with this?

Actually, Neb-uh-Loh was in #1 - we see Our Man Aurakles (rowr!) on the first panel of page 6 (one of the two-page spreads) slicing at him with Excalibur. Nice observation about Zee's spell and its possible effects on Nebby, and Nebby does remind one of the silhouetted OMEGA that Mister Miracle offers to help escape at the end of his series. Death as release and what dying means for a universe versus a person.

1.) In the final issue of the Guardian storyline, there's a panel of the newsboy army whacking some blindfolded guy with a baseball bat. What the heck is that all about anyway? I never got the connection there.

That was Captain 7 wearing his grown-up tragic time-suit as provided by Zor; the Newsboys-and-girls are disgusted with what they think he's going to do and drive him into Ali's cabinet of secrets. It's the Sheeda driving a wedge between them with the Horrors of Growing-Up - probably leads to Scarface and Millions turning to crime.

2.) In this issue we find out that the Sheeda is the human race, evolved, but in the Zor issue it's said that he introduced the Sheeda into the universe as a virus or something like that. H'mm?

Actually, we find out who the Sheeda are in #3 of Bulleteer. Zor was, I suspect, talking trash - that issue is all about setting himself up as the Big Bad Daddy God, right before he's beaten down and proves to be the the eighth unlucky Unknown Man. I would suggest that he means that he allies himself with the Sheeda and gives them aid so as to outwit his Seven Brothers and revenge himself. Only, we see Zor get the smack down here.

Any ideas where Misty and Zatana vanished off to?

The Universe as a whole? Stepping outside the curtain again while the universe wakes up? Zee realizes, maybe, that their part in this is over and simply moves them along to deal with the next crisis, as befits a career heroine - living apocalypse to apocalypse.

According to the comic, "Castle Revolving" is the name of the Sheeda flagship. Son what the hell is that weird looking bizarre city thing that appears on page 7, 10, 21-22? (and also appeared in SS#0)? Whatever that thing is, it looks really cool.

Err, that is Castle Revolving. You know: "A fake city. And more. A city on jets! A terrorist city! A flying trap!" (to quote the Ellis). It is a ship, a castle, a city - flip that and put Castle Revolving up against Superbia/Gorillatropolis - the Ultramarines' floating city/warship/loose-Carrier-stand-in.
 
 
LDones
03:55 / 28.10.06
Some answers.

a) if they lost the Harrowing, what was all that on the final pages about how evil won and the dark aeon and all that bollocks?

Darkseid/Dark Side's plan was to use the Sheeda invasion and the imprisonment of the first superhero, Aurakles, to lure Mr. Miracle into his clutches and kill him. Shiloh, as the spirit of freedom and possessing of the last Motherbox in existence, was the last enemy of the evil gods of Apokolips, presumably.

The Sheeda were incidental to Darkseid's plan. He believes he has conquered the last resistance to his own agenda of cosmic despair writ large.


Where the hell did Aurakles go?

No idea, but presumably he wanders time again to have his previous encounters with the JLA as a guardian of cosmic secrets. I think Aurakles' presence as The First Superhero is largely symbolic - Mister Miracle is there, like the Hoaxer and Flex Mentallo, to liberate the superhero as a whole. Mr. Miracle sacrifices himself for the greater good of superherodom, with faith that he'll be able to overcome whatever is thrown at him as a result (even death).


c) Neh-buh-loh the Nebula Man - I had hoped that his "death" in "Frankenstein #4" wasn't his actual send-off, but maybe I was wrong.

No. Neh-buh-loh was a space monster and Frankestein killed him. Frankenstein has a pattern of showing that he empathizes with horribly damaged creatures lashing out in hopeless situations (Uglyhead, glass giant, Neh-buh-loh) before still mercilessly removing it from with punching, guns, and killing. Frankenstein doesn't fuck around.


1.) In the final issue of the Guardian storyline, there's a panel of the newsboy army whacking some blindfolded guy with a baseball bat...

I thought this was rather explicit. It's a flash-forward to some years later when they punished/killed their friend Captain 7 for presumably having sex with and impregnating Chop Suzi, which apparently led her death. It's possible, and even likely, that he was innocent of the impregnating, if not the sexuality. From Guardian #4, their relationship would seem to have started before either was 'of age', though Captain 7 became so as time passed while Suzi remained much younger.

In Zatanna #3 Ali-Ka-Zoom reveals that they judged him for doing something they believed was wrong, and pushed him into the Cabinet never to return.


2.) In this issue we find out that the Sheeda is the human race, evolved, but in the Zor issue it's said that he introduced the Sheeda into the universe as a virus or something like that.

The true origin of the Sheeda was revealed earlier, in pieces, really. In Guardian #4 the Terrible Time Tailor, otherwise known as (Zachary) Zor, says he brought the Sheeda here "-to kill people like you" - referring to the Newsboys, and more symbolically referring to innocence and fun in comics and in life. He brought the Sheeda in to punish and destroy lighter ages of humanity, or comics, like a miser not wanting his gems spent so 'early'.

He didn't *make* the Sheeda so much as aid them in finding things like the Newsboys, the 7 Soldiers of Miracle Mesa, the Neanderthal Super-Civilization, and Arthur's Camelot - cultures they could cannibalize to subsidize their own waning existence.


4.) What dp you think the reference to the "Third Path" is? (Wait, never mind... that probably ties in with Zatana'a statement about not letting anyone tell you what to be).

Bingo. There's a path defined by righteousness, a path defined by wickedness, and a third defined by yourself, your actions, your being. Do Be Do Be Do, like in the crossword.


5.) According to the comic, "Castle Revolving" is the name of the Sheeda flagship. Son what the hell is that weird looking bizarre city thing

The bizarre floating city IS the flagship. They're the same thing, they just appear differently in different comics. It's their floating time-carrier.
 
 
LDones
03:58 / 28.10.06
Whoops. Heh.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:02 / 28.10.06
LDones: I think Aurakles' presence as The First Superhero is largely symbolic - Mister Miracle is there, like the Hoaxer and Flex Mentallo, to liberate the superhero as a whole. Mr. Miracle sacrifices himself for the grater good of superherodom, with faith that he'll be able to overcome whatever is thrown at him as a result (even death).

Possibly, Shilo realizes that he represents a primary trope of superhero comics - the dead don't stay dead, death is just another meaningless character moment. He skips the grief and heads straight into the SHOCKING RESURRECTION SCENE!
 
 
LDones
04:06 / 28.10.06
I think it's more an assurance that imagination beats death.

Morrison's fond of saying in appearances that 'the only thing that can escape from a black hole is imagination', quoting Scott Summers in his NXM, but referring to Mr. Miracle as well.

I'll have some more thorough thoughts on that and the whole of 7S tomorrow or later tonight/

I also have some ideas as to who the 7 Unknown Men might be, as indicated in the text, but that might need it's own thread.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:42 / 28.10.06
No no, man! Does the world truly need another Seven Soldiers thread? Speak on, who do you think the Seven Unknown Men are?
 
 
--
04:56 / 28.10.06
But if Castle Revolving is the same as the Flagship, how come they appear as two seperate forms in some panels?

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Nebulon appearance very early on in #1. I'm still not convinced he's dead. I mean, death in this series doesn't appear to be all that final anyway, as the last panel shows.

I'm going to have to reread that Mister Miracle series again. For some reason I assumed that Darkseid was working for the Sheeda. It probably doesn't help that I never read that JLA thing that I guess precedes all of this...

Also, IIRC it was the unknown men who said that Zor unleashed a plague, the "Sheeda-Strain", into the world, not Zor himself.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:31 / 28.10.06
Sypha: But if Castle Revolving is the same as the Flagship, how come they appear as two seperate forms in some panels?

Can you give an example? I don't think I ever saw two Castles Revolving. It changes shape, certainly, and appears in different forms from different angles - hence the "twisty castle" look versus the pod-womb in Shining Knight and the vicious dreadnaught at the end of Frankenstein. Castle Revolving is not the only Sheeda-Ship, is that what you mean? Frank blows up a couple of them in a characteristically off-panel Action Movie bit.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Nebulon appearance very early on in #1. I'm still not convinced he's dead. I mean, death in this series doesn't appear to be all that final anyway, as the last panel shows.

Well, no, it doesn't. Shilo gets it. "There is a flaw in me! I can feel it...white hot! And sharp." The flaw inside Neb-uh-Loh transforms him from a cold, symmetrical, mechanical death-machine universe into a universe capable of meaning (ie: a living one). Which is what Zatanna does when she wakes up the DCU. Neb-uh-Loh is limited by his ability to care for Rhiannon, from the Sheeda's perspective, but he's allowed to leave the current narrative to move through time...

I'm going to have to reread that Mister Miracle series again. For some reason I assumed that Darkseid was working for the Sheeda. It probably doesn't help that I never read that JLA thing that I guess precedes all of this...

None of which explains Darkseid's connection to this. I think the flaw here is that Darkseid's motivations should have been more clearly brought up as part of the Mister Miracle series. AND, Darkseid would never work for the Sheeda. He's using them to remove the Twenty-First Century human civilization as a viable threat; one of the reasons that there was a treaty between the New Gods was to prevent interference on Earth, which was always a threat to the Gods.

Also, IIRC it was the unknown men who said that Zor unleashed a plague, the "Sheeda-Strain", into the world, not Zor himself.

Zor's using the Sheeda's harrowing as a means of becoming like Neb-uh-Loh: "For I have become the universe that contains them." Only, of course, he fails Basic Humanity and can't find meaning in that which he contains. I looked it up: you're right, the Seven Unknown Men say that Zor unleashed the Sheeda. However, in Guardian #4, he says "I brought [Gloriana's] kind here to kill people like you." Referring to the Newsboys, seven in number; he's going against the Seven Unknown Men by alerting the Sheeda to the presence of Groups of Seven, potential recipients of the 7UM's favour and patronage, bit of a fuck-you to his brothers while facilitating the next Harrowing. Possibly he does this throughout history, trying to undo the prophecy and stick it to the Seven. The Sheeda are a convenient weapon; like Darkseid, he's using the Sheeda as a means to an end, even if it helps the Sheeda.
 
 
--
05:46 / 28.10.06
Oh, okay, so that's Zor in Guardian #4. I was thrown off because he doesn't look much like he did in Zatana #4.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
06:18 / 28.10.06
Zachary Zor arrives in Zatanna #4 in Zatara-drag, hoping to throw Our Lady of Perpetual Backwards Back-Talk off her game with the surprise and anguish of the possible return of her father being THWARTED. While doing an Ozzie Osbourne impression with a headless dove. How he looks in Guardian #4 is his pared down appearance (if you look at SS#1's references to shaving and "we'd all look like brothers" it makes more sense).
 
 
LDones
06:23 / 28.10.06
Actually, in Guardian he's just in a 7 Unknown Men disguise.

In Zatanna he's not in disguise, that's what he actually looks like, as previously seen in More Fun comics decades ago fighting the Spectre.


They shave him in 7S #1 to make him look like Cyrus Gold after the events of Zatanna #4.
 
 
Tom Coates
10:05 / 28.10.06
Regarding something said much earlier - I totally understood the Bulletteer to be the spear not thrown, and to be the descendent of Aurakles that is both love and vengeance.
 
 
Mario
11:45 / 28.10.06
Viz the Zor-Sheeda connection.

My guess is that he was the one who contacted them and let them know the 21st century was ripe for a Harrowing. In fact, if he's the one who gave the Iron Hand the Horn to call Ne-bu-loh, it all fits together.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:26 / 28.10.06
LDones: In Zatanna he's not in disguise, that's what he actually looks like, as previously seen in More Fun comics decades ago fighting the Spectre.

I still tend to see it the other way 'round, since he was the Eighth Unknown Man, once. Shaving is just a particularly brutal way of removing his Zatara-suit. Just because he was a Golden Ager doesn't mean he wasn't wearing a suit then.

I like the extreme flexibility of time that lets the Unknown Men take Zor back to Slaughter Swamp in the 1800s with such ease.

Still pondering the Merlins bit. The Merlin treasure which may or may not be the Merlin who delivers Arthur unto Gorias (if it is, it's interesting, if you consider the backwards-aging Merlin from The Once and Future King and the time flow in Seven Soldiers). Then cut that with the significance of Ali-Ka-Zoom (The Merlin of the Ghetto) delivering Gwydion-the-Merlin-in-a-fresh-jar (hmm?) until Zatanna that she might finally wake things up.
 
 
Mario
14:38 / 28.10.06
I wonder if the Council of Merlin (from Trials of Shazam) was Grant's idea?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:49 / 28.10.06
Haven't been reading the Trials. Synopsis?
 
 
Mario
14:57 / 28.10.06
Basically, they are a bunch of (evil?) magicians who have their own candidate for the power of Shazam. Said candidate is also competing in the Trials.
 
 
LDones
01:43 / 29.10.06
Enormous post incoming. Indulge at your discretion.


------
Now that the buzz has waned from some and some dissection can kick in, these are some of my Seven Soldiers #1 thoughts.


Page 1
The 7 Unknown Men pages in this issue follow a panel pattern - 9 panels of the 'Men' and 1 of the outside/background world of Slaughter Swamp. If you count the title panel it makes 11 this page, but the other two are 10 even, so I'll assume it shouldn't be counted. They also follow a hot/cold color pulse, here from purple to green to orange to white-hot, not unlike the panel colors in SS#1 representing the different rooms in the house of the 7UM.

Previous appearances of the 7UM have shown them speaking in individually colored speech bubbles, presumably to denote separate personalities, but that's abandoned here. The panel colors may be a clue to the changing identity of the speaker, but I see no indication that's the case.

In Issue 0, only 6 of the 8 7 Unknown Men spoke. This may simply be the secret, silent, last unknown man finally speaking, possibly Morrison himself.


Page 6
Aurakles fights the Kirbula Man.


Page 9
The Sword in the Stone, in one of the four ancient cities of the New Gods - there's a plug for it, extending into the snow, or a vacuum tube of some sort. Cute.


Page 11
More emotional fall and rise. The Fall of Camelot, the Fall of the Super-Neanderthals, all the same as any personal fall, personal tragedy. Tragedy and loss clearing the table, inoculating against future tragedy. Emotional fall making superheroes rise from the ashes of pain and despair through imagination and self-belief; all major themes of this series.


Page 12
They've killed Cyrus Gold and shaved Zor's face with a straight razor here, intending to pass him off as the about-to-be-lynched Gold (who will become Solomon Grundy) as his 'punishment' for mucking about in the universe and trying to make it dark, edgy, and angst-ridden. Dialogue sounds like Greg Saunders to me, but I may be inferring based on clues from the first SS issue. The 'Heh' is something Ali-Ka-Zoom does…

Same panel structure. 9 twisting panels and the 10th as the background of Slaughter Swamp. Colors move from Red to White-Hot to Green. Possible to infer some Kabbalistic meaning here, but I don't know how relevant it is, though it's almost certainly conscious on either Grant or JH's part.


Page 14
"This isn't some fairytale, mom!"
"Okay, Honey. I'll take your word for it."

As the fairy folk and cartoon grasshoppers smile on. It's a fairytale in here, it'll have a happy ending.


Page 17
The New Secret Origin of Comet the Superhorse



Page 18
On the ground, all 7's up Zatanna's sleeves. 7's of Diamonds. She's been preparing for her trick.

Ali-Ka-Zoom, suspiciously always there when you need, no matter how many times he dies, has a 'horsefeather' in his hat. Horsefeathers being synonymous with 'bullshit', magic, and tale-telling. Fake it 'til you make it, as a big part of the 7S themes.


Page 19-20
Klarion, JH Williams taking the storybook feel of Irving's art to an even further conclusion. Maybe GM was reading Barbelith again.


Page 22-23
The Secret Origin of Hannah Control, previously hinted at in Guardian #3. "I made you, Hannah Control!"

Father Time makes explicit again what's been pretty strongly touched on in previous issues.

The Bride makes a stand with the people of New York in front of the Hero Museum, last seen in Klarion #3 and Mister Miracle #3. The person in the background wears one of the stolen protective suits looted by the mob referenced by Ed in the newspaper on page 15.
The feathers of the Winged Pegazeuses of Gorias float all over the city, bathing it and the story in horsefeathers. Appropriate.


Page 24
Frank at the helm of the Sheeda flagship the Castle Revolving, which he brought here after destroying most of Gloriana's invasion fleet in Frankenstein #4. Frank is the cause of Hurricane Gloriana, bringing the Castle Revolving to DC Earth; but Klarion's bored of the invasion and wants to try out his new toy - the Sheeda Side of life.


Page 25
Zatanna strikes, using the merlin to take control of her own narrative. Like Dr. Metron said in Mr. Miracle #4, "…Life itself is yours to direct and manipulate." The cards she had up her sleeves come flying out, giving us the illusion of a magic trick that she's making happen with the help of the reader, the help of our collective perception. The disembodied backwards 'Ready' is our signal to her that we're willing to do our part.

As will be seen with Spyder and even Misty, Ali, and Sally Sonic, the 7 Soldiers are more than 7 and their total number is unknowable. We are them. Just as there are 8 or more of 7 Unknown Men, there are many teams of 7 soldiers. "Could This Be YOU?"


Page 26
Zatanna, spent, hoping it works. Jake and Carla get their fairytale. This feels like a gift from the 7 Unknown Men to me, like Buddy getting his family back at the end of Animal Man.


Page 27
Like Papers previously said, Ystina faces the last enemy of Camelot, the enemy that even Galahad gave into, and takes her pound of flesh, refusing to back down. Even if she dies, Camelot is avenged, in her mind.


Page 28-30
Mr. Miracle comes, transformed by his experience in the black hole, to free Aurakles, the first super-hero.

Darkseid/Dark Side, still burning up under the combustion of time in this body as in MM #4, reveals in secret godspeak to Shilo that he apparently gave permission to the Sheeda to raze the North American continent in exchange for the custody of Aurakles, who was precious to his enemies, the New Gods. He says he would use the Harrowing to root out the New Gods and kill them.

The panel borders are black, except when Shiloh is on panel - until he's shackled, in Dark Side's irons and in his black, restrictive panels. I love the hateful psychedelic machine-god graphics that Shilo's godsight shows him of Darkseid.

Without hesitation, Shilo sacrifices himself for Aurakles, with faith that he will triumph over anything Dark Side can do to him. Dark Side says this was all part of his plan to remove Shilo from the equation as the avatar of freedom, and kills him in the most blunt, direct, and uncreative way he can. There is no chance Mr. Miracle survived this, no visual trickery or explanation for a way out of it.

And yet the final panel is colored lightly again, his corpse mugging to the reader, no expression of pain on his face, the pinging of motherbox remaining audible, the ping of imagination.

Like I mentioned before, this seems to me a symbolic act by Shilo - giving himself up for the freedom of the first superhero, and superheroes as a whole - assured that he'll escape from any fate that Darkseid/Dark Side can put him through - through any despair or suicide or pain, loss, or death he can muster. Imagination escapes the gravity of tragedy.

This makes me think of very much of the statement that the colors of this aeon would be 'Red and Bleeding Gold', the colors of the final panel on page 30.


Page 31
"We'll beat you somehow."

Ed, still driving the bus from page 15, knows that they've finally taken revenge against the Sheeda and the Terrible Time Tailor. (Ed's eyes are a different color than previous here, incidentally - they're previously been blue)
We'll beat you, hopelessness, we'll beat you self-loathing, self-destruction, self-labeling, the idea that we're predetermined for failure and pain and misery.

Ystina is spared Galahad's fate through friendship, and teamwork.


Page 32
Spyder as the 8th Soldier.

The 7 Soldiers of Miracle Mesa were all a plan to make Spyder unkillable with Sheeda technology so he could kill the Sheeda Queen. Again, the total number of 7 soldiers is unknowable. Spyder was part of their plan all along. The ultimate hunter, a spider in part of the ultimate web.


Page 33
Gloriana in the street outside the Hero museum as her flagship leaves her and returns to Sheeda Side.

Through an accident brought about by her act of kindness, the Bulleteer slays the Last Enemy of Camelot, and is apparently freed from the further influence of the 7 Unknown Men, for now. "You're free." "Am I?"

Incidentally, they state that of the three women in the crash, (Alix, Sally, and Gloriana), only Alix survived.


Page 34-35
Above - Sally's mask floats through the flames above the wreck.

Below - The same 7UM structure as previous. 9 panels plus real-world (kingdom) background) . Red to Gold to Gray/Black. 7 word bubbles.

They finish sewing up Zor, trapping him as the soon-to-be Solomon Grundy - The bad creator, the bad father-figure, the hateful, hackish storyteller. Eighth of Seven Unknown Men.

The Seven Unknown Men are in many ways characterized as comic book writers, and I think more than one might be a writer who's appeared in his comics previously.

"Threadbare and ragged - the work of too many hands to ever fit properly…" He's talking about continuity, about writers, good and bad, hacking together the collected history of the DC Universe and it's individual characters.

"Not much of a disguise, but you watch it fool the locals." Written fiction as a disguise or suit for those who write it - barely hiding themselves in everything they write, but still unnoticed by most.

"I'll take that back." That's either Zatara or Ali-Ka-Zoom saying that. My money's on Ali since he's only once seen without his hat.

"We played by your rules…" We tried it dark and gritty and pained and angst-ridden. "…And you lost." Now as punishment we'll trap you forever in a zombie from the Golden Age of comics through to today, identity and history and behavior changing forever from writer to writer, decade to decade.

That "Heh" is again something Ali-Ka-Zoom regularly does in his speech after a pithy remark. (See Zatanna #3)


Page 36
"Ystina the Good" Ali may be lying here. I don't think it matters. He's illustrating the point of the series about human coping - that after great loss or tragedy we have an opportunity to rebuild better than before, wiser, stronger, if it can be imagined.


Page 37
Zor's screams echo through the swamp, now beginning to bloom with comic color as obvious the presence of the Unknown Men fades away with the panel borders.

The third road is our individual road of choice. Not defined by righteousness or wickedness. Defined by our choices, our doings and beings.


Page 38
Klarion's individual road of choice. Yikes.

When I last saw Grant speak and spoke a bit to him afterward, I heard him mention to someone who was a big Klarion fan that after 7S the character would actually end up basically where he was in his old incarnation. I see what he meant now - part of an alternate dimension where magic reigned, popping into ours when he gets bored to make mischief.


Page 39
The fanboy from Bulleteer #3 was right about Millions.

Darkseid as the Dark Side of existence and stories and comics and life. He believes himself the true victor of the failed Sheeda Invasion because he believes he has conquered the last enemy of evil, put freedom and hope and imagination into the ground.


Page 40
This page is the same as the final page of Flex Mentallo. But better on its own, in my eyes, more potent.

No panel borders, no restriction.

The black flower denotes a secret.

Imagination Beats Death. Imagination beats pain and darkness and loss. Imagination beats Dark Side. I don't think it's a lead in to a new series or any event, though it may be used as such since we know a New Gods event is incoming in the DCU.

Regardless, I think this page is a continued mission statement from Morrison the comics writer. From the 7 Unknown Men of the DC Universe, and the New Supreme Architect of the Universe, whose name may or may not remain hidden. Imagination is Freedom. Imagination is Hope. Imagination wins. The horesfeather wins.
 
 
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03:38 / 29.10.06
Wow, that's a pretty thorough analysis. Incidentally, I reread the entire series in light of the final issue tonight and it made a great deal more sense to me. I like how the Third Road was mentioned in the very first issue, and how Spider is told on page three that he has at least two sides. Ditto for Ali telling Zatana that the last rule of magic is the magician having to vanish, leaving behind the audience to go on without the magician (which Zatana appears to do in the final issue, which explains the "this could be you" card). It's amazing to me how much things I didn't grasp the first time through, perhaps with the time frame in between each issue, such as how Ali and Kid Scarface were members of the newsboy army. Which is weird, as this stuff is right in the text too. This is why I prefer to read comics in the trade paperback format I guess. Nice how Shilo's sacrifice is foreshadowed by the cover of his first issue (kind of cliche symbolism, but still nice).
 
 
vajramukti
04:05 / 29.10.06
it's interesting for me to look back and see the themes that are getting a lot of play here in some of the minis

i see it particularly in frankenstein. especially the whole critque of dark and gritty superficial 'realism'.

grant of course shows he understands that kind of writing much better than the people who write it usually. he sees the roots of doomed romanticism and self loathing in all of it and exaggerates and brings it all to the surface in frankie.

you want stories about darkness, vengence, and angst? okay. how about the lord byron and shelly? you want monsterous, ambiguous heroes? okay, here's The Frankensteins Monster himself, passing judgement on all his monstrous bretheren. the only one who can, or has any right to.

cause in the end, he's the original monstrous hero who loathes his creator, along with himself, who has every reason to be angry and hatefull, but chooses to do good and protect the innocent and fuck all your rationalisation and angst and crap cause he's got it all and then some and it's still just crap. he understands it perfectly but also understands you can rise above it if you want. you can rise above the darkness and the angst and do/be more, as GM seems to be saying. even a monster can carry the sword of an angel.

melmoth, uglyhead, glorianna, the sheeda, they all claim sound reasons for what they do but frank proves you always have a choice, a third path. so in every instance when they try to sway him it simply falls on deaf ears.

and i suspect there's something there about him being the patchwork man, like the misers coat of many parts, or the unbranded grundy man who proves to be more than a simple workhorse.

anyway...
 
  

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