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7 Soldiers

  
  

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miss wonderstarr
11:00 / 03.11.06
Yeah, my bad I suppose, but the last Seven Soldiers issue before this one seems like it was published in 2003 or something, so I suppose my faulty memory may be forgiven.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:42 / 03.11.06
Having read #1 again this lunchtime, I'm now thinking such problems are are with it might have more to do with an, erm,'experimental' approach to the editing, rather than the writing. The script does feel a bit hacked apart in places - if we're supposed to assume that each of the Seven delivers some kind of a killing blow to the Sheeda Queen then all right, Frankenstein's already done his bit before the issue starts, but some of the other characters' parts in this, in particular Klarion and The Guardian's (The Guardian's contribution is what precisely? Finding love again possibly, but then again, that's possibly reaching a bit,) read as if they've been heavily compressed, to say the least. And the Klarion section, as originally written in the eighty page version, must have been much longer. Basically it feels like what it presumably actually is, which is a script that's been cut down to almost half its original length, and I don't know if it's entirely fair to blame the author for that. Fair enough, he was probably never going to get away with the full eighty, but would sixty four have been too much of a stretch from DC editorial, bearing in mind the overall size of the project? It seems as if GM was given free reign for most of it (to the extent of 'no one else involved knowing how it was going to turn out') and the pulled up at the finishing line, as it were.

Does anyone know if he's said anything publicly about this yet? Or about the reaction to the series in general? I mean he's usually not shy ...
 
 
The Falcon
17:15 / 03.11.06
Not so far as I'm aware; do agree a post-match interview would be handy.

I guess Klarion's contribution is taking Castle Revolving away to Sheeda-side, leaving Gloriana stranded.
 
 
The Falcon
19:23 / 03.11.06
Also: just for the hell of it - I think that - in a twist of Audrey Murray proportions - that Shilo's brother, Aaron, was Jake Jordan's partner. Of course, there's no actual material to indicate that, other than he's a dead cop. It gives me lukewarm pleasure to think it, and so I shall.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:59 / 03.11.06
Wow Falc, that is actually a very interesting idea. I am now going to assume that was the case, even though the timeline might not work right (do we know how long ago Guardian was a cop?).
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:12 / 03.11.06
Ok, so we have some ideas for what each known soldier did in order to stop the Sheeda (kind of)

Frank - blew up the bulk of their fleet ONE BILLION YEARS LATER

Zatanna - Taught Misty enough about the nature of things so that she would be willing to fight her mother even though she was afraid of becoming her. Also did the Seven Soldiers Strike spell which may or may not have lined up all the final events.

Ystina - Took the cauldron out of play (I assume this based on the dialog, though nowhere do we see the cauldron destroyed) and wounded Gloriana pretty good.

Alix - Was in the right place at the right time because of her compassion for someone who was willing to kill her. This fulfilled her destiny of being the spear called both Love and Revenge (or whatever the actual name is, no comics at work today).

MM - Shilo escapes from the black hole with knowledge of how to escape even death, free Aurakles because...of something. He is shot dead at the end, but is good enough at what he does he breaks free of death, like all the DCU characters who have ever died (seems a not-quite-unique power really).

Guardian - Rallies the people of NY to fight the Sheeda, thus fulfilling his destiny as the Everyman Superhero, because sure, he has training and neat gear, but you or I could be just as heroic.

Klarion - If we assume the cauldron was NOT destroyed, then Klarion taking Castle Revolving and leaving (with the cauldron) he stopped Gloriana from being able to come back from the explodey car death, dooming her to permanent death.

If we assume there is an 8th Unknown Soldier (like Wing) it would be I, Spyder, who not only knocks Gloriana out of her ship, but has what is quite possibly the best line in the whole series when he asks "What kind of game would I, Spyder hunt?" mirroring the comment about the hunters in the end of SS #0.

I think thats a pretty good compilation of the theories people have thrown out.
 
 
The Falcon
20:13 / 03.11.06
Can't check at the min, but it's in #1 of his series, I think. Couple years ago? Shilo is 21, iirc, but portrayed as a pretty youngish boy when his brother gets shot. So, it's dodgy, but I like it.
 
 
Axel Lambert
10:19 / 04.11.06
Some questions:

How did Frankenstein know Melmoth, and why did they hate each other?

Why was Melmoth searching for Klarion's village?

Why had Melmoth built guards for Klarion's village, and how does this relate to the fact that he didn't know where the village was?

Was it pure coincidence that Klarion's village was situated close to the place where Aurakles was chained?

When did Aurakles escape from the chains? (A long time ago it seems, but didn't either Darkseid or Mr Miracle release him in quite recent days?)

How did Frankenstein kill Neh-Buh-Lah? With a gun? With a spear? The ultramarines had weakened him, giving him "a flaw", but how could Frankie use that fact??
 
 
Sniv
14:58 / 04.11.06
How did Frankenstein know Melmoth, and why did they hate each other?

See issue two of the Frankenstein series. It was melmoth's blood that created Frankie. Also, from the flashback at the start of the series, it seems that Melmoth was some kind of science-villian in the old days, and as a superhero, Frank would fight him.

Why was Melmoth searching for Klarion's village?

Probably because he knew they were his people (sired by him that is). I think he was planning to use them somehow, most likely for profit, but also he could have wanted to use them against Gloriana somehow.

Why had Melmoth built guards for Klarion's village, and how does this relate to the fact that he didn't know where the village was?

Tricky one this... maybe he built them before the villagers took themselves underground. They could have been guards above, but once the group moved underground they could have simply built upon their instructions keeping the limbo-townsfolk in as a way of protecting them from outside forces. (maybe)

Was it pure coincidence that Klarion's village was situated close to the place where Aurakles was chained?


Probably not. They used to worship him as a god (presumably before he escaped). Maybe they found him on their travels, and decided to set up camp nearby so they could be closer to him.

When did Aurakles escape from the chains? (A long time ago it seems, but didn't either Darkseid or Mr Miracle release him in quite recent days?)

Possibly he was moved to the prison that Shilo was working in at some point in the past. Perhaps it was his previous cage, before they could build purpose-built metahuman storage facilities. (this of course begs the question of whether Shilo's omega-trap lives were real or not, but seeing as he had crossovers with over books during this period, I take it as a yes)

How did Frankenstein kill Neh-Buh-Lah? With a gun? With a spear? The ultramarines had weakened him, giving him "a flaw", but how could Frankie use that fact??

With Neh-Buh-Loh's spear, after shooting him in the face which seems to have induced (or sped up) the forces of entropy in the universe which is his body. "The could not heal yoou. Instead, they gave you medicine to hasten your end. The flaw... the doubt you feel... is the presence of death." So yeah, it does seem that the ultramarines helped his end too.

As to what they did, I'm not sure. Does having superheroes put in you stunt your growth? Unless Nebs was a fundmentally evil universe (like the crime syndicate's earth), and the presence of the Ultramarines help to spread good. That would seem to be evidenced in his sparing of Misty.

And, if you're a humanoid-universe, I think having a spear shoved in you would be bad. It would break the containment field keeping all your stars and shit in place, and it would be like an insanely huge rod trust through a signicant area of space, obliterating whole galaxies. Literally a rip in the space-time continuum, inside this thing's body. That would fuck you right up.
 
 
SiliconDream
18:39 / 04.11.06
Zatanna - Taught Misty enough about the nature of things so that she would be willing to fight her mother even though she was afraid of becoming her. Also did the Seven Soldiers Strike spell which may or may not have lined up all the final events.

Took out Zor, too, who would otherwise almost certainly have been backing up the Sheeda invasion, and who could probably have wiped out all the other Soldiers with a blink.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:01 / 04.11.06
what if Klarion is Melmoth's younger self?
 
 
PatrickMM
21:46 / 04.11.06
Nice call on Zatanna defeating Zor, Silicondream. Much like Frankenstein, she made her major contribution in her own series, so her work in SS#1 was just ensuring that everyone else could do what they had to.

As for Klarion as Melmoth's younger self, wouldn't that mean he's his own ancestor? With the time travel, it's possible, and it's certainly a cool thing to think about.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:20 / 05.11.06
Why was Melmoth searching for Klarion's village?

Well he wasn't was he, when Klarion turned up in blue rafters was when he first got interested. And he'd created the society then left it alone for centuries, so I don't think he'd lost it. Did he see them as being remote enough to avoid the Harrowing, that the Sheeda wouldn't find them, so afterwards they'd be the first to help him rebuild? The Grundy probably would have been useful to him in his operations on Mars.
 
 
SiliconDream
21:09 / 05.11.06
Why was Melmoth searching for Klarion's village?

Well he wasn't was he, when Klarion turned up in blue rafters was when he first got interested.

Actually, his contacts were already asking Badde to bring up some "special kids" before Klarion even left Limbo Town, and when Badde mentioned him they seemed to be already familiar with the idea of "a whole lost tribe of Puritans." (As they'd naturally be, since they know Badde.) Klarion was just Melmoth's first big lead on the location of the colony.

And he'd created the society then left it alone for centuries, so I don't think he'd lost it.

If they went underground after he left, and then burrowed all the way from Roanoke to somewhere between Gotham and New York, even he could have easily lost track.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:25 / 05.11.06
There's still something... implicating... about the Submissionaries being synthetic. Possibly, as was said upthread, Melmoth introduced them to the colonists *before* impregnating them. Possibly to ensure they'd take the colonists below ground? Maybe as a last-ditch weapon against Gloriana, or to ensure a particular strain of civilization would be set up after the Harrowing?
 
 
iamus
22:25 / 05.11.06
I always reckoned that was the reason the Limbo-Towner's were so backward. The Submissionaries had been keeping them technologically stunted for hundreds of years so they'd be safe from the Sheeda when they came back, because the Sheeda only target the technologically and culturally advanced. The Book of Shadows says that when the Harrowing comes, Limbo Town would be safe.

Seeing as the Submissionaries were created and programmed by Melmoth, who's been trying to get back at Gloriana since the proto-Arthurian, or something, aye, I think your idea holds quite a bit of water.
 
 
Triplets
02:20 / 06.11.06
Hi guys, my girlfriend is supposed to be getting Seven Soldiers Volume 4 for me for Christmas but amazon is saying January 26th - is that right? If so it's just in time for my birthday!
 
 
SiliconDream
00:40 / 07.11.06
I always reckoned that was the reason the Limbo-Towner's were so backward. The Submissionaries had been keeping them technologically stunted for hundreds of years so they'd be safe from the Sheeda when they came back, because the Sheeda only target the technologically and culturally advanced. The Book of Shadows says that when the Harrowing comes, Limbo Town would be safe.

Ooh, good point.
 
 
LDones
00:41 / 08.11.06
For any still keeping score, both JOG and The Beastmaster have put up excellent write-ups of 7S#1 and the series as a whole now that it's over.

JOG puts the point of the Zor/Time Tailor/Sheeda business more succinctly than anyone else I've encountered, drawing another nod to this project's continued thematic ties with Flex Mentallo.


"Implicitly, it’s shown that a superhero universe can hold all sorts of things, and the keepers of that universe must be mindful of what they do. There’s good tailors and bad tailors - the latter use the mechanisms of ‘maturity’ to gratify their own nasty urges. Indeed, Zor was revealed at the end of Zatanna’s series to have set humanity onto the path of becoming Sheeda - it doesn’t take much thought to grasp Morrison’s critique of the poisonous influence of shitty, shocking storytelling choices on a superhero universe, the result being a debauched state of strip mining the past forever with zero care."


I think there's some agreement on the whole that 7S's utter inability to resolve itself logically and the regular pointing out of its own bullshit were both cop-outs and integral, beautiful parts of the narrative and its author's message.

The rough edges of Morrison's work (the inevitable undtidiness amidst all the energy and commotion) are some of the more interesting, rewarding bits. They keep possibility very much alive after the final page is turned; and I still feel the rush of watching his connective threads align through his better stories is easily as satisfying as any traditional narrative, in comics or otherwise.

Morrison comics have always rewarded a reader that's actively seeking to connect the dots behind the scenes, and I think he writes specifically for that audience in his more personal work, that he has for some while - with the traditional narrative almost just a smokescreen for the connective tissue beneath. Albeit a shiny, exciting smokescreen made of fun and explosions lots of the time.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:05 / 08.11.06
I think I like Not the Beastmaster's take on it - similar, but more specific:

Most of the project's antagonists and failures, from Gloriana Tenebrae to Don Vicenzo all the way down to Lance Harrower, are deathly afraid of growing old or dying. A few of the friendly supporting cast can't or won't grow up, like Ed (Baby Brain) Stargard or the gestalt child Leviathan. But other villains like Solomano or Zor try to make the heroes more "mature" by casting them in grim and gritty character revamps, turning them into racists or child murderers. Morrison confronts his heroes with two equally unpleasant options, the stasis of permanent childhood and the degradation of false, forced maturity. The Seven Soldiers have to find ways to grow without giving in to nihilism, despair, and the death of a thousand cuts that all too often passes for our experience of adulthood.

The idea of being caught between those nightmare states weirdly reinforces the idea of them being Soldiers to me.

I also agree with his points about space and pacing in the issue, and how the Arthurian stuff could have been compressed a wee bit more to accomodate actual soldiering and possibly flesh out, say, Shilo's story a bit. I'm not sure how I feel about his idea regarding Klarion's parentage, but it'd be worth examining.
 
 
LDones
05:21 / 08.11.06
What, that Badde was his father? I thought it was hinted at vaguely in the Klarion #2 issue itself, but the crossword makes it explicit. Even without the crossword, I thought of it as likely, since we never see anyone else who fits the profile.

When Badde mentions turning in his "own flesh and blood" for porn and booze, he could've just meant another Limbo-towner, but even then I and a lot of others wondered about it, and the crossword hint is a dead giveaway.
 
 
makingbombs
22:08 / 12.11.06
I know, I know, I'm a little late - I wanted to reread the whole shebang before finally getting to Seven Soldiers #1. And reading the miniseries as four-issue wholes, rather than as they were originally released, turned out to be much more satisfying.

The whole "one epic crossover" thing was a failure, no doubt - but I'm surprised it's bothering people here as much as it is. Alongside all the 30-part crossover hype, the original SS ads, from memory, had something like "A WHOLE NEW CORNER OF THE DC UNIVERSE" or somesuch, and I think that's a much more useful/truthful way of looking at it. The plot threads didn't really add up; in fact, they were more like when Spidey and the Fantastic Four first started popping up in each others' stories when the Marvel Universe was getting started. A shared universe of background characters, threats, grander themes, etc.

That'd make SS #1 a bumper, all-star Annual, I guess, filled with guest stars. I loved it. And after my disappointment with WILDCATS, I was so pleased that I didn't want these 40 pages to end.

(And now I think that the TPBs really shouldn't be collecting these in order of their release, but hell...)
 
 
PatrickMM
02:06 / 14.11.06
I read it all in trade, and for me, the crossover thing was a large part of the appeal. I do think it was very successful, perhaps not in telling a singular narrative story, but more in building a set of themes and symbols to riff off of. Back at the beginning of the project, GM referred to the series as a superhero Robert Altman movie, and I think that's a great take on it. Like a Nashville or Magnolia, each of these pieces appear seperate, but the more you look beneath the surface, the more connections emerge between the disparate pieces. If this were a more traditional crossover, we'd probably have an overarching miniseries which would focus on the Sheeda threat, and then we'd see pieces of that through the individual minis. However, the way it is now, we have to infer the overall narrative through the various pieces we're given, and a large part of the fun for me was seeing how everything fit together. An issue like Zatanna #3 might be nice on its own, but when you read it after reading Guardian #4, it works on a whole other level.

Issue #1 is the ultimate application of this because it neglects giving us any sort of overall narrative and character development. Rather we see just the fragments we need to see to understand what happens. Yet, in these small pieces we do get the emotional closure that was left unresolved at the end of the miniseries. With the exception of Frankenstein, I feel totally satisfied with the fate of each character. I'd love to see more, but I think the story was told and the overarching meta-narrative is what makes this experiment unique and as successful as it was.
 
 
andrewdrilon
03:05 / 14.11.06
Ditto on what Patrick said. A lot of the reviews of SS#1 go negative on the execution of the series finale, as people seem to want the minutae of each soldier's contribution spelled out, but IMHO they're missing the point.

Back in his mega-graphic-novel New X-men run, Grant discussed his concept of "emergence" when applied as a writing technique, wherein elements within the world of the story rise to prominence and dictate how the story goes, forming an emotional/narrative pattern. The impression I got off SS#1 is that he's still utilizing the technique, but in a subtler way: this time, most of the major elements and some minor elements are provided, but it's up to the reader to fill in the blanks and let the absent story areas emerge. In prose writing, it's similar to an author leaving a "lacuna" or ambiguous space for the reader to interpret based on overt or subtle hints. It's a technique rarely used well in comics, but when it happens, it leaves delicious ambiguities for a reader to tackle. (Alan Moore used this technique in order to further a lot of subplots in his Top Ten series; utilizing seemingly irrelevant background noise to mimic precinct chaos and expositize subplot development. Neil Gaiman also did this a couple of times in Sandman, notably in the "World's End" part.)

Not saying that SS#1 was completely successful (Frankenstein's part was just unsatisfying), but as a whole, I feel that the experiment worked, as people who give it close readings are definitely rewarded. If you study Grant's recent work on All-Star Superman, you'll see there that he also gives readers plently of lacuna to fill in between issues and between scene shifts (these are easier to deal with, as the plots are pretty simple, and I feel it's also more deliberate on Grant's part given that All-Star is taking a more mainstream and "classic" approach to storytelling.)

But Seven Soldiers as an experiment in multiple-protagonist epic storytelling isn't about simplicity; it's about how complex elements in seemingly random order coincide (via synchronicity, luck or Fate, which are leitmotifs throughout the series) in order to create a kind of organized chaos. Works for me, and I have to say that this is the kind of ambitious work that I appreciate most from Grant's comicbook ouvre.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:16 / 14.11.06
Well it seems Mister Miracle is back in action. This time in the pagesa of FIRESTORM.

    The superstar creative team of Dwayne McDuffie (JUSTICE LEAGUE UNLIMITED, STATIC), Dan Jurgens (Superman, Captain America) and Ken Lashley (The Flash) bring Firestorm to bold new heights! Jason Rusch and Prof. Martin Stein just want to get their lives back to normal, but the New Gods have other plans! When Orion comes looking for Prof. Stein, you can bet a throwdown's not far behind! Guest-starring the Seven Soldiers' Mister Miracle!
    On sale February 28
  
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
17:21 / 14.11.06
Mozza talks 7S at Newsarama
 
 
Mario
18:43 / 14.11.06
And we get an answer about the Seven Unknown Men which, in retrospect, makes perfect sense.
 
 
sn00p
19:04 / 14.11.06
It does, but why are they all bald?
Why is everyone bald in a Grant Morrison comic?
You could bearly weave a rope with the amount of hair in a Grant Morrison comic book.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
13:22 / 15.11.06
This page is woefully incomplete.
 
 
Sniv
16:54 / 15.11.06
Just had a brain spasm when looking at that page. If the 7UM are all comics writers that have appeared in the medium (and by the looks of that page, not even on DC properties), then couldn't one of them be Alan Moore (who was in Hellblazer once, wasn't he?)? This would kinda explain why there are so many Moore homages in Zatanna (as I think Jog or NotTheBeastmaster have commented on recently).
 
 
Sniv
16:55 / 15.11.06
I think I used too many parentheses there didn't I, readers?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
19:51 / 15.11.06
Alan Zor= Zachary Moore
Think about it: She takes revenge for the death of her dad, Then he's castigated for making comics nastier and darker (Watchmen?) and sewn up in the suit of a mumbling mono-syllabic swamp-man. Plus he unleashes a plague of fairies on DC, which is an apt metaphor for Uncle Alan's mentoring of Neil Gaiman if ever I saw one...

"It's a magnificent beard and you know you want one!"
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:33 / 15.11.06
That would explain the 'beard' reference in Zatanna #4.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:33 / 15.11.06
That would explain the 'beard' reference in Zatanna #4.
 
 
The Falcon
21:54 / 15.11.06
I think it's double-handed, though; like, 'up to Swamp Thing - brilliant, Alan, brilliant. Afterward, and after that spiky letter you sent me regarding Kid Miracleman - not so good.' Zatanna #1 is, as I think I said at the time, a serious pisstake of Promethea.

You could possibly view the Aurakles as a 'good Moore' figure, if you liked, and obvs. Baby Brain/Stargard is based on Kirby.
 
  

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