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Underground > Policy & Help >

What exactly does get you banned on Barbelith?

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18:08 / 10.01.06

Just to add my two cents. Hawksmoor and I have also traded PMs, and they seem... real enough. While my opinion (as a n00b) isn't as valued as a more "tenured" poster, I am convinced this guy is real, and not a jokesuit. If this is an elaborate joke, then it seems wasteful. To what end is teh Hawksmoor getting at? Why would he go for such an elaborate set-up with such a normal and not so great punchline (being the whole "u r teh ghey" thing - it's not that funny)

Regrettable Juvenilia

18:09 / 10.01.06

Oh, and Phox, if he's sent you hate speech, I think he's waived his right to a phone call and a candy bar.

18:14 / 10.01.06

Ze sent me a rather unpleasant pm filled with what to him are insults, but to me just read like a teenage boy's ignorant homophobia.
If appropriate I will forward a copy to a moderator if that will help remove hir from the board as people shouldn't have to tolerate behaviour like that.

18:16 / 10.01.06

Just

ban

him

18:26 / 10.01.06

Yes, someone, please, end it now.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:41 / 10.01.06

His PMs to me were mainly about Ralph Ellison. Looks like I got lucky...

If we're banning for homophobic attitudes or language now, which would be something of a first, then he should probably be banned. If we're banning joke suits and we are absolutely certain he's a joke suit (I'm not), then he should be banned. Ultimately, however, he is, if he exists, basically, at base level, short on life skills and stupid to the point of functional illiteracy. I don't think it's very likely that we'll be able to help him with that, but is it bannable for?

18:48 / 10.01.06

i feel, like mr phox, that his insults do little real damage. they are clearly the childish rantings of a cornered teenager, and dont hold any real weight.
i dont think he needs banned.
i do think he might want warned that banning is being suggested, in the hopes that it will make him have a think.

18:52 / 10.01.06

I find the notion of Hawkdude sitting back and taking stock unlikely.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:52 / 10.01.06

That would definitely work, yes.

18:57 / 10.01.06

Fair enough Haus. I guess I was a bit het up when I posted earlier as I really wasn't expecting that kind of abusive language when I opened the PM.
I'd say ze has clearly crossed the line of what is acceptable behaviour, but on reflection agree that doesn't necessarily cross over into a banning offence.
I just thought I'd mention it to make it clear that if ze is a joke suit, then it's the joke suit equivalent of Jim Davidson - offensive and unfunny. If it isn't a joke suit then ze is a deeply unpleasant individual who I hope I never have the misfortune to meet.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:03 / 10.01.06

Mr Phox- I think that last should be a fairly remote possibility, unless you're given to lurking in playgrounds.

I'd agree with a warning, preferably from a Creation mod, rather than a banning out of hand. Right now I wouldn't shed any tears if he just buggered off, but as always I'm concerned about setting precedents which we can then be demanded to follow by future irate posters with an agenda.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:48 / 10.01.06

Oh, and Haus's linking to the Real Live Tiger debacle (one of my favourite old threads, as it happens) has also reminded me of Cherry's great line

This isn't a democracy, this is Barbelith. We try and keep the speech as free as possible but it when it comes to offending people it gets a little sticky.

Which I think should be in lights at the top of each forum.

21:10 / 10.01.06

Anyone who thinks he's definitely a jokesuit needs to spend more time on the rest of the internet. There are PLENTY of people like that out there.

It's about the juxtaposition. There are PLENTY of people like Von Mises out there, but they aren't posting on Barbelith. Jokesuits are only jokesuits in a context which renders them ridiculous.

22:20 / 10.01.06

I'm thinking not a jokesuit, which might as well be evidence of the fact it is, as was - umm - nowthink? I always get these things wrong.

In fairness, if it is a jokesuit (threats of violence and hatespeech callously cast aside,) it has created a very, very funny thread.

22:54 / 10.01.06

What's your real name, bro? I don't think i'll give you mine, as you're probably gonna fantasize over it like any other queer. You're pathetic.

23:13 / 10.01.06

I...can't believe you guys are still talking to that thing like it's a person...

23:19 / 10.01.06

Yeah, lower your blazing suede lances.

23:20 / 10.01.06

It's escalating. I'm not engaging him via pm as I don't particularly feel like being the subject of homophobic abuse. I've posted fair warning here.
(Hopefully the post is impersonal enough not to invite conversation.)
It isn't my job, even as moderator, to re-educate Barbelith's bigoted and I don't intend to do so. I've made my feelings on Hawksmoor clear earlier in this thread. If there isn't a precedent for banning for this type of thing, I strongly feel one should be set.

23:23 / 10.01.06

This response to Shrug's attempt at guidence is uncalled for. I know that being an asshat isn't a banable offence here, but Hawkmoor just isn't listening and simply doesn't belong here.

23:24 / 10.01.06

Jinx, Shrug.

23:24 / 10.01.06

Well, I'm not a mod, but you've sure got my vote.

23:26 / 10.01.06

Uh...Shrug, that is to say, has my vote. To wit, in re:...yeah, you know what I'm saying over here. Door. Ass. POW! That.

23:31 / 10.01.06

Well, this has been fun, and I have been trying to calm him down via PMs, and a showing of good faith by being even and fair with his short stories. But the more we talk to him, the more it gets worse.
I'm not going to post about him, in his threads, or in the gigantor thread about him anymore. Until, that is, he's calmed down etc. This way, I won't be adding fuel to the blaze.

23:35 / 10.01.06

i am prolly too close to the issue to comment fairly either way. put it this way - if it comes to banning i wont stand in anyone's way.

23:38 / 10.01.06

It's banning or torches and pitchforks (he said, tossing Gasoline-Soaked Briquettes on the Roaring Dark Bonfire of Redemption).

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:26 / 11.01.06

The afore-quoted What's your real name, bro? I don't think i'll give you mine, as you're probably gonna fantasize over it like any other queer certainly crosses a line. One that I believe has been crossed before by the same poster, who has been repeatedly upbraided for it.

01:07 / 11.01.06

Yeah, I've had my fun (and that's all that matters) but the dude is flouting a ton of guidelines about incendiary speech and should he continue to do so, I'd think that constituted a ban mandate.

Keith, like a scientist

03:06 / 11.01.06

I think we should just tell him that The Gaiman, The Ellis, and Harry Potter himself would be very disappointed in him. Not to mention Hawksmoor's Bleed friends Midnighter and Apollo!

But seriously folks...um...I've been following this, but I don't have a clear idea why he hasn't been banned yet. I realized I'm not as tuned into the inner workings of the administration of the board, but I'm mainly curious what the banning process is like. He seems like a prime candidate for banning, jokesuit or no jokesuit. He has clearly gone from seemingly wayward new person to hostile insulting troll.

05:18 / 11.01.06

I'm mainly curious what the banning process is like.

while not officially codified, haus' plan seems to tally with what most people here think, give or take.

from page 2 of this thread:

1) Somebody says something racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant generally.
2) That somebody gets a mixture of gentle admonition and crispy-frying.
3) A bunch of people who seem never to post about anything else *do not* leap to that somebody's defence. (this needs work)
4) The somebody reacts defensively at first. Then either:
i) Decides that maybe they should, if they want to be in this groovy gang, have a think about their beliefs.
ii) Decides that maybe, in the interests of a quiet life, they should not actually share their more spicy views, and hang around Barbelith (hopefully soaking up lovely tolerance vibes)
iii) Decides that Barbelith is PC gone mad/humourless/what-the-fuck-ever, storms off to another board where they can mock teh gheys or whatever and get lots of lovely LOLs instead.
iv) Decides that (S)HE WILL NOT BE SILENCED, DAMMIT. Gets kicked off.

if nothing else it does provide a good stepping off point.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:17 / 11.01.06

Hmmm, my attempts to engage didn't go well, and I got called a 'bitch' via PM for my trouble. I did reply to him suggesting that he ditch the intemperate language but as I'm probably the latest in at least a dozen people to do so I doubt it'll do anything except probably make him go even more Sweary Mary back at me.

I also admit that at the moment I'm finding him too funny to be insulting, but I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone who wants him gone. Has someone PMed Tom to direct him to the last few pages of this thread and the Creation thread?

07:03 / 11.01.06

Well you'll be pleased to know he's not a homophobe, he just used that type of language to insult me. The fact that I found this out of order and unpleasant means that I am in fact teh gay. I kind of think he's missed the point.

Regrettable Juvenilia

08:59 / 11.01.06

If we're banning for homophobic attitudes or language now, which would be something of a first, then he should probably be banned.

I didn't think that was a first if PMs were involved - didn't Smiling Friends, way way back, get into serious hot water, which may have included banning, for PMing people dodgy stuff about being "dry inside", and wasn't one of You-Knowl-You's first major offences sending abusive PMs to shortfatdyke? Or has my memory failed me?

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:13 / 11.01.06

Oh, and Keith:

I don't have a clear idea why he hasn't been banned yet.

The shortest answer is that while there is some demand on Barbelith for it to be a place where blatant homophobia, sexism and racism should not banning offences, there is also a vocal lobby group that says that they should not be. That's my understanding of it anyway. My view on this is that while there is a balance to be struck, and while it is not hypothetically impossible to create a situation in which any suspicion of, say, sexist language is treated too severely, at the moment we have a slightly inconsistent policy, in that decisions such as the banning of the Fetch from page 1 of this thread have set a precedent that Barbelith is not really willing to follow through on. I'm willing to be persuaded that this is not the case, though.

09:36 / 11.01.06

The people behind Smiling Friends didn't get banned, in fact, the suit wasn't obliterated before the posters in question revealed that it was all a "joke". The suit may have been destroyed after the fact. However, that was all a long time ago, before the Egdelwonk, and it involved at least one respected long term poster - basically it was before we'd got to where we are now, which is, I would hope, a situation where posters can get banned for sending offensive PMs.

To all you guys who think jokesuits/trolls don't send PMs, I can tell you flat out, point blank, from personal experience - at the troll end - that they most certainly do, and that those PMs are likely to be just as convincing as their posts to the board proper. It all serves to add an air of authenticity, and offers new avenues for amusement.

Tryphena Absent

09:56 / 11.01.06

Oh who cares if he's real or not. Just get rid of him.

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