BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


What exactly does get you banned on Barbelith?

 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 42

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:30 / 06.01.06
to get across the idea that I would never go so far as to attempt to portray Brian Harvey as a gypsy, but that I WOULD definitely support the perception of him as a chav

TW... I'm really trying here, but can you not see that to say "never go so far as to portray x as a gypsy" and the use of the word "chav" in the SAME SENTENCE may go down badly? That is, the use of "gypsy" as something you wouldn't go as far as- y'know, as in "he's not THAT bad"... then using the word "chav" right at the end? Can you see what you did there?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:32 / 06.01.06
(If you need a clue, it's to do with putting a racial descriptor in a negative context, then following it with a classist slur).
 
 
Tits win
21:40 / 06.01.06
Yeah I can see how that went down. For clarity, the only gypsies I've ever interacted with (three instances spring to mind) have caused them to end up pretty low in my perceptions. Which might be why I didn't think twice.
 
 
Quantum
21:50 / 06.01.06
Oh My Lord. I seconded the motion to delete the original Brian Harvey post, and having now just read the Moral Question thread I'm a bit alarmed at your style, tits.

Why not take a day off? Seems to me you understand why people might be appalled at what you're posting, you're not stupid, but unless you're deliberately provoking people for a laugh why keep posting so frequently? Let it lie, have a think, come back with more considered posts another day?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:55 / 06.01.06
OK, now we're getting somewhere. Say I came across a community, and the first two members of that community I met were saying stuff about, say, gypsies. And a third wasn't. Say it was Barbelith.

Would it be justified of me to hold that Barbelith was anti-gypsy on the basis of those three members? Two of whom were, or were perceived by me as such, the other one not? Should I judge the entire community on the basis of my interactions with two of them? Barbelith has 5,000-odd members. Not that many, compared to pretty much any racial grouping you may come across. And it would STILL make no sense.

Anyway, that's me done. I'm drunk and need my sleep. Don't do it again. (NB... this clearly doesn't necessarily mean everyone ELSE is done).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:56 / 06.01.06
(The above posted before the previous post by Quantum. Who I agree with, also).
 
 
Jack Fear
22:17 / 06.01.06
To sum up: If you're going to insist on acting like an idiot, and politely decline all invitations to stop acting like an idiot, you've forfeited all rights to complain if people treat you as if you are an idiot.
 
 
Tits win
22:34 / 06.01.06
That's a concern for me though - Why do we choose to treat negatively 'idiots' or narrow-mindedness? It makes the board elitist/judgemental, and in a wider context, for me at least, hypocritical - Looking down on one group, for looking down on another; Self-perpetuating. I think it can be done differently; positively, and that we CAN be contradictory in our values, without being hypocritical; All things to all people; Non-alienating.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:37 / 06.01.06
Yes. But racists are not "non-alienating", and we don't have to tolerate racism for fear of alienating people who would like to behave in a racist fashion, because Barbelith decided long ago that having people who want to behave in a racist fashion is less of a priority than having people on Barbelith who would be encouraged not to be on Barbelith because it appears tolerant of racism. This is an old discussion. More in a moment.
 
 
Tits win
22:45 / 06.01.06
I think I'm going to bed now anyway. My head hurts.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:52 / 06.01.06
To address your comments:

I honstely don't know whether I house a huge desire to raise my game - At least, not in the way you think is appropriate.


That's fine. In which case, you will probably have to accept that you will be treated like somebody who is not interested in not attacking the core values of Barbelith, which may at some point result in you getting banned from Barbelith, or simply treated with contempt and/or hostility from growing numbers of people until those who are left who want to interact with you have nothing of worth to contribute to your ongoing story. It takes a lot to create that level of consensus, but it is possible to manage it if yuou put in the effort.

At the same time, I can see how some of the blanket statements, rushed and ill-considered, are making me look unobjective and narrow-minded, but then, I'm much more for a subjective take on things these days anyway.

I don't think anyone mentioned the words "unobjective" or "narrow-minded". Specifically, I think that you are making racist generalisations about Israelis and Palestinians, and displaying in your analysis a level of ignorance about Israeli politics incommensurate with making statements about them. Subjectively, you're coming across to me as somebody who is making cretinous statements based on very little knowledge or life experience. That may not be the experience, subjectively, of others. If it is, then a broader general perception of you as somebody prone to thoughtlessness, generalisations based on ignorance and prejudice is likely to affect your experience of Barbelith. Find me a single instance of somebody using the word "objective" to describe their position and we'll talk about that.

I don't think that being subjective is a bad thing in itself, and from what you've written it would seem you only think it's a bad thing when it generates certain results - Like generalisations, or commentry that can be easily mis-read.

Or ill-informed nonsense, or racist generalisations, quite. As I say, I don't think objective/subjective is a dichotomy anyone has raised yet.

For example, yes I phrased the gipsy thing wrong. my intention, not fully illustrated, was to get across the idea that I would never go so far as to attempt to portray Brian Harvey as a gypsy, but that I WOULD definitely support the perception of him as a chav.

But have you examined the terminologies here? This entire thread originated in a racist generalisation about gypsies. There is a thread here about the use of the word "chav". If you aren't interested in hearing what other people think about this, why would you expect other people to be interested in hearing what you think, up to and including providing you with a login name and password to post on Barbelith?

It related to earlier stories about a gypsy being run over with his own vehicle.

No, it didn't. I mentioned that story, which was a story in the Sun in which it claimed that a gypsy - their term, not mine - ran somebody else over in that somebody else's own vehicle. This is not about your beautiful subjectivity. It is about you not paying enough attention to what somebody else has written - not respecting their subjectivity, if you want to put it in those terms.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:35 / 06.01.06
Haus, Stoatie, Quants and Mirror have pretty much covered this, I think.

This is partly an expliclty 'me too' post as I believe that when someone's making the kind of offensive generalisations that I'm reading by TW all over the board (catching up a bit), it's worth demonstrating to an individual poster and the community at large that the viewpoints expressed by the posters above represent a broad spectrum of the board/the 'culture' of the board.

Also, just to underline, no-one is making a subjective/objective distinction here except you. Unless subjective='I think' and objective="these people think"

And also, it's frankly almost as offensive to reply to a bunch of people who have put alot of time and many words into engaging with you with a 'can't be bothered'.

This is oddly enough, unlikely to foster the kind of open, questioning communication you claim to be keen on. Communication you seem to feel is best furthered in the making of statements of opinion as fact, and of offensive generalisation as truth.

See the little problem? Making closed statements isn't a great way to foster flexible discussion.
 
 
Ganesh
23:44 / 06.01.06
Another 'me too', I'm afraid. The way you're behaving is pissing me off, TW, to the extent that I'm actively considering using the Ignore button (which I almost never do) and just avoiding your posts altogether. I'd be grateful if you'd reread what's been said by others above, and consider again whether it'd be a good idea to alter your posting style accordingly.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:02 / 07.01.06
The point, I think, TW, to remember, is that whenever you decide to get this or that stuff off your chest about teh gypsies/chavs/queers/women/PC gone mad, etc, someone on the receiving end of your 'ironic' ideas, ie 'in that category' may well be reading, and possibly wouldn't exactly be 'in on the joke.'

It's a broader church than you think, I'm guessing - I remember the feeling of astonishment, like what a lightning bolt to the 3rd eye must be when I realised that everyone round here wasn't necessarily white, middle class, *weird*!!11! and straight.

Accordingly, I'd be inclined to tread a bit more lightly were I you.

(Though there's no point pretending that I won't find it funny if this advice just seems like the basest wank.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:33 / 07.01.06
I've got to come clean here... I have absolutely no problem with reacting negatively to narrow-mindedness. Weird, I know, but...
 
 
Quantum
09:39 / 07.01.06
Why do we choose to treat negatively 'idiots' or narrow-mindedness? TW

Just quickly to point out that discriminating against people based on their race, gender, disability or sexuality is unacceptable, as enshrined in law here in the UK. It's not just Barbelith, it's generally agreed to be wrong, like theft or assault. Why do we choose to treat muggers negatively?
 
 
Spaniel
10:34 / 07.01.06
God, you lot are such a bunch of objectivists

(except for you, Quantum)

Seriously, though, at this point I'm inclined to think TW is consciously trolling, I mean, what was all that shit about gypsys and chavs. A real "wot me guv? Racist?" moment, if you ask me, where a troll dresses deliberate antagonism up as a misunderstood statement.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:05 / 07.01.06
I'll see your me toos and raise you a What he said. "But don't you see? Your prejudice aganist prejudice is also a prejudiceAhHAAAAA!" Stale.
 
 
Smoothly
14:19 / 07.01.06
A real "wot me guv? Racist?" moment, if you ask me, where a troll dresses deliberate antagonism up as a misunderstood statement.

You might be right, Boboss, but I'm willing to believe that he genuinely didn't see the implication. Which is why I think he might get quite a lot out of spending some time here. Consider Ender.


Tits, you can still walk this back you know. And there's no shame in that; quite the opposite IMO. There are plenty of people here who had faltering starts or got off on the wrong foot at some stage, but have become valued members of the board.

But you've got to remember that we only know you by your contributions here. There's no sense in which people are going to value you in spite of the things you write on the board. So accept that Barbelith has different standards from from other boards/environments, and if you've got something to say, ask yourself if Barbelith is the right place to say it. It's not much different from real life that way.
 
 
Spaniel
14:30 / 07.01.06
I am feeling uncharitable today, but, yeah, perhaps it's a little too early to shout "troll".
 
 
Jack Fear
15:09 / 07.01.06
I think it comes down to your conceoption of the enbtire purpose of conversation. Why do people get together? Why do we talk? Why do we exchange ideas?

I believe that the reason for conversation—and reason-for-being of message boards, especially this one—is to learn.

Idiots make poor conversational partners because they have nothing to teach, and are unwilling to learn. God knows what they think the act of conversation is for: asserting dominance? "self-expression" in a vacuum? reinforcement of their already-held beliefs?

Seriously, Tits (and I can't believe I just typed those words in that order): Why are you here? What do you gain?
 
 
Tits win
15:34 / 07.01.06
I don't really do serious very well.
 
 
Tits win
15:35 / 07.01.06
But I am listening to everthing being said.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
16:42 / 07.01.06
perhaps it's a little too early to shout "troll".

If it was only the encopretic and ubiquitous kerfuffle flung at us since just before Christmas, I might think fol de rol but TW, the poster formerly known as 08, has apparently been around since 2001 and has started 26 threads. Yet kerfuffle and ubiquity have only been a feature of the past fortnight. Odd that. It's almost like ze became an entirely different person, and just recently.

Maybe there is hope. Says ze's paying attention to feedback. Just not showing much sign of understanding the feedback ze gets. Not going to hold my breath.
 
 
Ganesh
16:56 / 07.01.06
Mmm. Odd that, isn't it? Been around for aaages, suddenly energised into posting contentious stuff aplenty, doesn't do 'serious'...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:30 / 07.01.06
First suggestion of violent murder here. Shame - he was doing comparatively well. There's always hope...
 
 
Ganesh
18:44 / 07.01.06
Oh, I'm not sure it's U-No-Hu (although the penchant for Tarantinoesque ultraviolence gives me pause for thought). It could be A N Othertroll.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:55 / 07.01.06
If it is, he's a bit brighter and more focused than previously - maybe tertiary education's paying off. Flavour's a bit different...
 
 
Tits win
19:20 / 07.01.06
I love you both. You know that, don't you?
 
 
Shrug
01:23 / 10.01.06
You just seem like a sad, pathetic loser to me. Overweight, are you? Pimple faced with glasses that could see through concrete, eh? Out or in the closet, man? LOL.
(posted by Hawksmoor here)

Err he can't say that can he? (Using homosexuality and weight, amongst other things, as terms of abuse).
 
 
Char Aina
01:50 / 10.01.06
no.
i was intending to point it out as well, buti forgot i all the excitement of going closet shopping with haus.
i dont know if he needs banned, but he should be warned. i would suggest that someone other than the participants in the relevant thread do said pointing, and perhaps also that we wait a day for him to lose some of the velocity.

for all his abusive reactions, i wouldnt say i am convinced he is a bad dude, just under-aware.

i would also humbly ask that the comments are not excised, for they do so warm the cockles of my big fat gay heart.
 
 
Ganesh
02:06 / 10.01.06
Surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely surely a jokesuit?
 
 
Char Aina
02:25 / 10.01.06
you think?
i'm not convinced.

posibly cause i spent some time engaging with him and would feel a little silly if it was a hoax, i guess...

is there anything other than the over-the-top nature of his reaction that you reckon gives him away?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:51 / 10.01.06
I'm not convinced either yet, there's the whole pretentious sig stuff and the fact he really just goes off on one when people dare to treat his work as though it doesn't kick the rest of All Literature in to a steaming bucket of shit.

That said, his insults towards toksik deserve a kicking and a watchful eye, especially since toksik was the only person who could be bothered to reply to him and talk to him about his work. There's gratitude for you!
 
 
Spaniel
08:02 / 10.01.06
Well, I'm thinking jokesuit. He's so willfully antagonistic and immature, and his "story", well, it reads like a wind up to me. "Two psychopaths organise a sex party"? Please.

Made me laugh, though.
 
  

Page: 12345(6)7891011... 42

 
  
Add Your Reply