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Star Wars mythology surgery

 
  

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Lord Morgue
13:44 / 27.09.04
I have already aquired the services of Rage Fett to train the clone army grown from her D.N.A..
My young apprentice, Darth Eon, will keep those pesky Jedi, Qi-Gonn Haus and Flyboy-Wan busy.
Meanwhile, my "associate", Count iao, will lead the Fatbeards to destruction.
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational forum!
Penny Arcade think they've got WANG? Wait'll they get a load of me!
 
 
FinderWolf
18:51 / 28.09.04
Lucas confirms rumors that SW will eventually have a TV show in the new Entertainment Weekly - he says he'll likely do a SW TV show soon...
 
 
Jack Fear
19:30 / 28.09.04
Hey, here's one...


Who really wrote the New Hope novelization? We all know it wasn't George Lucas, whatever the cover says. I've heard Alan Dean Foster, I've heard Brian Daley... anyone know for sure?
 
 
A beautiful tunnel of ghosts
20:39 / 28.09.04
Why didn't Qui Gon Jinn disappear when Darth Maul killed him? Obi-Wan does when he dies, as does Yoda.
 
 
Benny the Ball
21:32 / 28.09.04
I always put that down to the fact that Obi Wan and Yoda have accepted that they have learned all they can on this plane, and are moving over to join the force or whatever, whereas Liam Neeson was too brash and still needed to learn some lessons, so he was to be reincarneted.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:23 / 29.09.04
They both expected to die, too. Yoda's was a natural death of old age, and Ben's was a sacrifice play, what the Jedi call "Form Zero", the art of fighting without fighting. Ben didn't want Vader to encounter Luke that early, and knew the kid wouldn't leave without him, and he couldn't beat Vader's mechanical stamina and strength, so did that thing the heroes talk about in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and used his last breath to merge with the Force.
Ultimately, Luke learned from his example, and used Form Zero to defeat the Emperor.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:28 / 29.09.04
On the other hand, Qi Gon had just got smashed in the nose and run through the chest, and was a lot younger than either Yoda or Ben when they died, and maybe didn't have that trick.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:30 / 29.09.04
Did any of the Jedi killed at Geonosis pull a vanishing act?
 
 
_Boboss
09:44 / 29.09.04
i'd been thinking of that. answer from memory: no. ditto for any deadi in clone wars. reckon they'll explain it away in the next one, like someone said, as being an 'ascended master' kind of thing, so expect it to happen to Mace Pimp-u. putting the redeemed anakin and qui gonn on the same level works for me, and it hints that kenobi didn't totally waste his seventeen years on tatooine.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:37 / 30.09.04
>> Why didn't Qui Gon Jinn disappear when Darth Maul killed him? Obi-Wan does when he dies, as does Yoda.

Lucas has actually addressed & answered this question in interviews; I forget what the answer is. But there's a specific reason for it that he planned out, he says.
 
 
diz
16:17 / 30.09.04
Who really wrote the New Hope novelization?

Alan Dean Foster.

Lucas has actually addressed & answered this question in interviews; I forget what the answer is. But there's a specific reason for it that he planned out, he says.

yes, there is, or so Lucas says, but we won't find out what it is until Episode III. apparently, it's a plot point. it may involve Qui-Gon, since Yoda heard his voice from beyond the grave when he was meditating on poor widdow Annie-kins killing all those mean Tusken Raider babies.

it seems from everything we know so far to be a technique that Yoda learns, possibly with Qui-Gon's help, then passes along to Obi-Wan while everything's going to shit.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:55 / 30.09.04
Aint It Cool News reports that QUOTE, "George Lucas wants to bring a live-action “Star Wars” series to television by autumn 2006." Lucas also said as much in a recent Entertainment Weekly interview.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:59 / 30.09.04
>> Did any of the Jedi killed at Geonosis pull a vanishing act?

I dunno, but maybe there were some Jedi killed at Genosha who did. (snare drum, lame comic book pun has been executed)//

Is Geonosis the name of the big planet where the huge Jedi fight happens in the arena at the end of Episode II?
 
 
PatrickMM
23:12 / 30.09.04
That it is.

I've been watching the ANH commentary, and there was something really intersting from Lucas. He's talking about how he put in the scene where Luke and Leia swing across the chasm to have them bond, since they were brother and sister. And then right after, he's talking about how he used that scene to create the rivalry between Luke and Han, both of whom were in love with her. So, at least he's not denying the weirdness. I'm looking forward to see what he has to say about their kiss in Empire.
 
 
COBRAnomicon!
16:06 / 01.10.04
A few questions about the timeline in Empire:

1. It seems to me that the timelines for the two plot threads don't match up. We never hear exactly how long Han, Leia, and Chewie are running from the Empire in the Falcon, but it doesn't seem to be too long; there's nothing in the movie to indicate that it's a matter of months or even weeks (we never even see any sleeping quarters on the Falcon, so unless they're just sleeping in the hallway, it can't be that long). But that means that Luke's Jedi training went awfully fast. Considering that Yoda tells him in Return that he's received all the training he needs, Luke goes from talented-amateur to ABD Jedi in the same amount of time it take the Falcon to get from Hoth to Bespin. And that seems fishy.

2. Also, one of the big plot points is that the Falcon's hyperdive is down. Fine. But then how are they getting from star system to star system while running from the Empire? I'll buy that there's an uncharted asteroid field next to Hoth; but when they come out of the field, Solo says they're in the Noad system, while earlier Hoth had been referred to as its own system. So they've apparently travelled pretty far. They then travel on, sans hyperdrive, to Bespin, which even Solo says is pretty far away. How are they managing all of this interstellar travel without the hyperdrive?

The best I can come up with for an explanation (aside from the true one, which is that it's just a movie) would be that they're doing all of their interstellar travel at some high percentage of the speed of light, and the resulting time dilation means that only a short period of time passes for them, while everyone else experiences months or weeks or whatever (I suppose this would also allow Luke more time for Jedi training, too). This doesn't feel like a very good explanation, though… Anyone have any ideas?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:38 / 01.10.04
He's talking about how he put in the scene where Luke and Leia swing across the chasm to have them bond, since they were brother and sister.

Lucas = so full of shit it hurts.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:37 / 02.10.04
>> 1. It seems to me that the timelines for the two plot threads don't match up. We never hear exactly how long Han, Leia, and Chewie are running from the Empire in the Falcon, but it doesn't seem to be too long; there's nothing in the movie to indicate that it's a matter of months or even weeks (we never even see any sleeping quarters on the Falcon, so unless they're just sleeping in the hallway, it can't be that long). But that means that Luke's Jedi training went awfully fast. Considering that Yoda tells him in Return that he's received all the training he needs, Luke goes from talented-amateur to ABD Jedi in the same amount of time it take the Falcon to get from Hoth to Bespin. And that seems fishy.

I never really thought about it, but I assumed it was a week or two. It's sort of a sci-fi thing that I took for granted in the sense that even though we don't see sleeping quarters on the Falcon, they still gotta be there.

And Luke's rapid progress, if it is, let's say, 8 days or something like that, can be easily explained that the Force is with him and he's a REALLY REALLY talened amateur, as well as being the son of one of the most powerful Jedis around.
 
 
Ben Danes
07:11 / 02.10.04
I always looked at it as the Falcon having to fly to Bespin at normal speed. So in my mind, it took them a month or so to limp to Bespin, while Luke's off getting trained by Yoda.

Not that Yoda had to train him too much IMO. I'd say Obi-Wan trained Luke for a couple of days (from when they meet, to the trip to Alderaan, which I look at having taken at least a day or two). Plus, Luke had been running around for 3 years now learning by himself, so I see it as Yoda just polishing his skills up to a degree. Like how Obi-Wan in Episode 1 is still a padawan, even though he is arguably skilled enough to be a Jedi, not until does he face 'the trial/s' (battle with Darth Maul) is he a Jedi. Luke has all the skills, but until he faces his trial, Vader in ROTJ, he's not a Jedi yet.

They never do show/say how long it takes to travel through hyperspace in the films, but going by the EU, hyperspace travel does seem to take days, rather than hours.
 
 
grant
19:31 / 04.10.04
we never even see any sleeping quarters on the Falcon, so unless they're just sleeping in the hallway, it can't be that long

Actually, in the first movie, when Artoo and Chewie are playing holographic chess, aren't there niches in that room large enough for someone to sleep in? I always sort of assumed that that area was a kind of dorm/sleeping quarters, but I might be misremembering actual physical evidence.
 
 
e-n
10:39 / 05.10.04
So is it just me or has anyone else noticed anything weird with the DVDs?
Like in the escape from the death srtar and the little battle that follows.The TIE fighters following the falcon are surrounded by little squares of lighter coloured space background than the rest of the background.
I really can't believe thhat this is really how lucas always wanted to see the story told.
The special edition space battle additions naturally don't have this but surely more cleaning up of the film could have been done.
I may be barmy on this point too but when the gang get out of the trash compactor and are drying themselves down, it looks like theres been some manipulation of Leia's hand.Don't ask me wqhy I noticed this but on playing it back her hand makes a nonsensical drying motion inchers from her clothes.Was this always this way or are my eyes deceiving me??
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:40 / 05.10.04
regarding that question about the ESB timelines...I was just watching this last night, and it occurred to me that the Falcon had a couple moments of extreme downtime. 1) instead the cave monster thing, and 2) stuck to the Star Destroyer's hull. #1 could have been a couple days at least, and #2....who knows? could easily have been a week or so they were sitting there.

Also 3) they could have been held prisoners at Cloud City for a week or so, at least.

So when you add it all up...I could see it being a month of training for Luke. Not terrible.
 
 
Loomis
14:26 / 05.10.04
Hmm. But when you consider that Anakin (who has more natural ability han anyone) was trained for years, and see the kids being trained by Yoda in AOTC, it does make Luke's training seem fairly short. I figured that in better times he would have had more training, but due to the situation he was given a sort of battlefield promotion.
 
 
_Boboss
14:57 / 05.10.04
more natural ability than anyone before luke. luke's powers be so bad he has them before he even knows he has them. you think he 'threw' that grappling hook around the pillar?
 
 
I, Libertine
19:38 / 05.10.04
Re: the idea that the new Emperor/Vader dialogue cocks it all up.

Here is the actual dialogue:

Palpatine:
We have a new enemy, the young rebel who destroyed the death star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.

Vader:
How is that possible?

Palpatine:
Search your feelings Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us.

Vader:
He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

...and that's it! It doesn't ruin the reveal at all, because we presumably don't know at this point that Vader and Anakin are the same person.

Episode III, depending on how the 'transformation' is handled, may or may not ruin the reveal for Residents of a Future Age who watch the series in numerical order.

I'm not saying that Lucas won't ruin everything...just that he hasn't ruined everything quite yet.
 
 
I, Libertine
19:59 / 05.10.04
Here's more space-grist for the ion-mill.

In the opening scroll of Empire, it states that "The evil lord Darth Vader [is] obsessed with finding young Skywalker."

Later...

VADER: You found something?

PIETT: Yes, my lord.

VADER: (studying the image on the console screen) That's it. The rebels are there.

OZZEL: My lord, there are so many uncharted settlements. It could be smugglers, it could be...

VADER: That is the system. And I'm sure Skywalker is with them. Set your course for the Hoth system. General Veers, prepare your men.

In ROTJ, Ben tells Luke that he and Leia were "hidden from the Emperor."

So what does all this mean for the series of I-VI? Apparently the Emperor doesn't know about any Skywalker kids until halfway through ESB. Anakin knows about Luke, but not about Leia (revealed in ROTJ). Luke doesn't know Vader is his father.

But what's Vader's deal? What's up with his line, "How is that possible?" He's always known about Luke.

Again, Episode III will either tie everything together or blow it all to hell.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:34 / 05.10.04
i think the implication is that vader is lying to the emperor to protect luke...he wants luke all to himself, as evidenced by his reaching out to luke in the hopes that they will destroy the emperor together.

Cheney = Vader. Edwards = Luke. Tonight's debate surprise twist...Cheney reveals he is Edwars father. "John...search your feelings...you know it to be true!"
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:08 / 06.10.04
Vader's skills aren't what they used to be as Anakin. I suspect he hasn't even used his lightsabre in between Eps 3 and 4. Hell, he spends half the fight with Ben holding his sabre in the wrong grip. He's obviously been practicing by Empire, and has a new sword, but Luke has photographic reflexes, like Ranma 1/2 or the Taskmaster. He starts the fight in Empire using Obi-wan's defensive Form 3 style, but quickly picks up Vader's aggressive Form 5 techniques, AS HE'S FIGHTING HIM! Vader has to resort to Dun Möch and force stunts to beat him. By Return of the Jedi, Vader has no chance. He's an elderly quadriplegic quadruple amputee in an iron lung, his heart isn't in it, and Luke's wild, chaotic brawling style and fast reflexes are too much for the poor old fart.

Y'know, I think Lucas should change that whole scene of dialogue to the version from the Star Wars Gangster Rap.

"What is thy bidding, my master?"
"It's a disaster! Another Skywalker we're after!"
"But if he could be turned to the Dark Side..."
"He'd be be a powerful ally! Another Dark Jedi!"
"He will join us or die."
 
 
_Boboss
09:18 / 06.10.04
i like your knowledge of jedi fighting styles morque. more please, or a link or something?

love to mindy.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
10:13 / 06.10.04
I think the reason Luke, Ben, and Vader aren't as impressive in episodes 4-6 as the Jedi in 1-3 is because Vader's an old cripple, Ben's an old guy who's out of practice, and Luke never got proper training from a Jedi Academy. That's why we don't see as many cool flips or Darth Maul chinese sideways twistflips and stuff.
 
 
Loomis
12:41 / 06.10.04
Has anyone come across this site? supershadow.com is run by someone supposedly inside the Lucas camp, and amongst various info about all the movies and extended universe stuff, it has plot summaries for episodes 7, 8 and 9, all apparently written by Old Beardy himself.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:56 / 06.10.04
>> I think the reason Luke, Ben, and Vader aren't as impressive in episodes 4-6 as the Jedi in 1-3 is because Vader's an old cripple, Ben's an old guy who's out of practice, and Luke never got proper training from a Jedi Academy. That's why we don't see as many cool flips or Darth Maul chinese sideways twistflips and stuff.

Either that or they made Ep's 1-3 when they had a lot more time & money to focus on cool stunts.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:02 / 06.10.04
Kinda cool from the Episode 8 plot summary, whether it's fake or not:

>> Grentarik, the home world of Yoda the Whill

So at least SOMEONE took a shot at naming Yoda's species, finally!

Also, supershadow claims he is a close personal friend of Lucas and then posts what appears to be his picture (supershadow) on the "about supershadow" page. Gee, if he's a close personal friend of Lucas and presumably doesn't want Lucas to know he's leaking all this stuff, why does he put his picture on the site? Unless Lucas is like "Ahh, go ahead, leak it, old buddy, not many will take you seriously anyway."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:03 / 06.10.04
Ah... what with the allegedly Lucas-penned novelisation mentioning the "Journal of the Whills" and all that... that makes a lot of sense. Guess GL just forgot, huh?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:09 / 06.10.04
Just Googled for "whills"... there seems to be much debate on this point elsewhere as well (though I notice "supershadow"- if it's the same one- crops up a lot).

A lot of people seem keen to point out that GL has always maintained that Yoda's species is a mystery... fair enough, I guess, but having another one turn up in Ep One (in the Senate, no less), you'd think they could have maybe got together and talked about it. Or even if they KNEW themselves, and didn't want anyone else to know, the fact that there was more than one would have caused other assembled species to at least come up with a working name for them... otherwise it'd be "well, I always thought Yoda'd side with the other... guy that looks like him". (Actually, I could imagine that being GL dialogue).
 
 
Lord Morgue
14:22 / 06.10.04
Form 1 is derived from "dead blade" swordwork.
Form 2 is Count Dooku's archaic duelling style.
Form 3 is the older Obi-Wan's style, an impenetrable defence derived from blaster deflection drills.
Form 4 is Yoda's swashbuckling kung-fu style, also used by Qi-Gon Jin and the younger Obi-Wan, incorperating somersaults, pirouettes and cartwheels, covering the three axis of three-dimensional space.
Form 5 is Anakin/Vader's style- pure power and aggression. Later adopted by Luke Skywalker.
Form 6 is the hybrid "diplomat's style", a quickie course covering the basics of all styles save 2, for Jedi who prefer to concentrate on more peaceful skills. All the Form 6 masters who fought on Geonosis died.
Form 7, Mace Windu's personal style. A more powerful hybrid of all the styles, the emotional intensity required has driven all other students insane, or to the Dark Side. Can you say "Bad Mother"? Darth Maul uses the Sith equivalent.
Form Zero - the art of fighting without fighting. Literally, the art of wielding an unlit sabre. A true Master should be able to control events so he need never enter into physical combat at all.
Dun Möch- Sith art of trash-talk, aided by Force-inspired insights. Palpatine was a master sledger- "THHHRIKE me down withhh all your hatred!" Vader usually just got himself in worse trouble when he tried it.
"Your feelings for them are strong, especially... siiiisterr!"
"I DON'T FUCKING FANCY HER, ALRIGHT!?"
"What? OW! Oh shit, my hand..."
 
  

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