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Is Bush going to Win?

 
  

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Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
16:45 / 24.08.04
The poles aren't very clear; according to them it's neck and neck. But the attitude of the populace in my area is fairly clear: Bush will win. I'm beginning to agree.

Sure, all I hear from the younger side of things is how much of a monster Bush is, how greedy and deceptive his crew are, how many punk rock protest songs are out, how great that Micheal Moore movie was, all the famous people that hate Bush, and how much Bush needs to be stopped. But apparently, none of that really matters. "So you're going to vote then? Registered and everything?" I ask them. "Uh, I don't think I'm registered, but if I am I will definately not vote for Bush!" "So who will you vote for?" "I dunno...somebody. Not Bush, though!"

And so it goes. I don't mean to make anti-Bush agents look so...politically inept, but damn, most of them around here have no plan outside of wearing "Stop Bush" t-shirts. Without anyone to make them really want to start voting, the attitude 'round these parts is that apathy will give Bush the election. I imagine a much greater number of people will vote this year than last election year, but nobody is expecting that number to reach even fifty-five percent of people eligible to vote. Politics is too much of a spectator thing here.

So I started thinking: Bush wins, he's around for another four years...so what? Serves us right. Let the man take advantage of America. Hell, let him take advantage of the world. I think he'll teach us all a good lesson about American politics and the lack of involvement from the American people. I'm thinking America deserves Bush and everything he gives to us. And we'll see how loud the anti-Bush party in America is when gas goes back to $1.10 a gallon, thanks to all the oil we're about to dig out of Iraq.

And besides...nothing's better for that freedom fighter feeling than an oppressive regime, right? There's gotta be a Man to Stick It to, right? Now everybody has a chance to be subversive and feel good about it.

Conclusion: you might want to prepare for a Bush victory in November. Don't bother stratching your head trying to figure out how he won, either. It was there all along. Just enjoy the ride however you can. In another four years, there will be another batch of losers to choose from.

P.S. I'm voting for Schwartzenegger. Seriously.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:04 / 24.08.04
I'm thinking America deserves Bush and everything he gives to us.

You might. The people in poor countries who are going to get even more royally screwed due to climate change don't. Likewise the people he is failing to pony up the anti-AIDS funding to, or the people currently being held and tortured without trial. Or, indeed, the tracts of countryside and the rare animal species his policies are threatening.

You can certainly argue that one rich white Bonesman is as bad as any other (although in the case of Bush that maxim may actually be broken), but I'd suggest that a better argument is required than "Republican voters get the President the deserve". Regrettably, the rest of us get him too.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:35 / 24.08.04
I'm thinking America deserves Bush and everything he gives to us.

You might. The people in poor countries who are going to get even more royally screwed due to climate change don't. Likewise the people he is failing to pony up the anti-AIDS funding to, or the people currently being held and tortured without trial. Or, indeed, the tracts of countryside and the rare animal species his policies are threatening.


Perhaps they don't deserve him. They don't deserve mudslides or earthquakes or crooked dictatorships or AIDS or a whole host of things that afflict them that you and I cannot stop, either. Sucks, don't it?

Really, though, excepting the detainees business (which, like everyone else here, I disagree with but lack the power/will/willpower to do shit about) there was nothing there that I hadn't heard being complained about before this time. Ever since I started paying attention to politics, the first thing that always jumps out at me is: nobody is ever satisfied with a. how much money they have, b. the promises that are kept or not kept, c. what's being done with the enviroment, and d. what's being done about poor people in other countries. None of this will change, regardless of who is President. Some things will get better, others will get worse, but nobody's ever satisfied. More on this later.

You can certainly argue that one rich white Bonesman is as bad as any other (although in the case of Bush that maxim may actually be broken), but I'd suggest that a better argument is required than "Republican voters get the President the deserve". Regrettably, the rest of us get him too.

Yeah, you sure do. Deal with it, you big sissy. Write a letter. Fly a plane into a building. Sanction him. So the guy in charge over here fucks up your country and you don't like it. So what? Neither do I. What do you want me to do about it?

Ha! What indeed. As I noted earlier, nobody is ever satisfied. But who do I try to help? Who is in the most trouble? Who needs the most help? Who do I listen to? Everyone is telling me this needs to be done and that needs to be changed and these people need more money no they don't these guys need that same money more than the first guys do and so on and so forth. Everybody has a chart proving their point. I can't trust the statistics they give me. I know how easy it is to skew stats in your favor. So what do I do? Who do I trust when everyone has an agenda that doesn't seem to be in everyone's best interest?

The system tells me this: you want change, get off your ass and vote. That is your role as a citizen. That's how you play along. So I am. I'm voting for the guy I want to run things, who I think is best for a leadership role in this country. I'm voting for Arnold Schwartzenegger. I know it won't make a difference, but I'm doing it anyway. Fuck it. What else?

Hey man, I'm doing my part. I'm out there talkin' to folks. I'm voting. And none of it will matter. Bush will win, some folks will be happy, most folks won't.
 
 
diz
20:23 / 24.08.04
this basically boils down to a question in your faith in the state of democracy in the US. do you believe that the people really choose the president? do you think that they actually have control over the political process in their own country? do you believe that they have the ability to be informed about the consequences of their decision?

if you answer "yes" to those questions, then they lead to the inescapable conclusion that the American voters, including myself, are responsible for what another Bush administration will mean to the rest of the world. we are the perpetrators, not the victims, and we need to own up to our unwillingness to take responsibility for deciding the direction of our country.

however, to those adopting such a position, i would point out that most Americans are simply ignorant. not only do they not understand the outside world and the consequences of American actions abroad, they don't even know that they don't know. for anything real to change in US politics, a huge number of Americans would have to suddenly become aware of a whole lot of history and politics and economics and simple fucking geography that they are not currently aware of. most Americans don't know anything about the US and its history in Latin America, or the Middle East, or the effects of American global capitalism in the developing world, or any number of other topics.

and, well, there are a lot of entrenched forces working very hard, day and night, to keep them in the dark. progressive activists would need to control a significant chunk of the media and the schools, and the forces that dominate America are a hell of a lot more powerful than us. all our votes are meaningless until America takes off the blindfold, but we would need a lot more votes (and money) to take the blindfold off. it's a catch-22.

if you answer "no" to those questions, then we, the American public, are basically like medieval serfs toiling away on the master's land while he goes off to slay Arabs in the Crusades. we're basically just a different set of victims with no control over the process, and we can hardly be expected to accept responsibility for what his lordship does in his rampages. "yeah, he's an asshole, but you're preaching to the choir."

however, i would like to point out that, technically, we have the Constitutionally-protected right to speak our minds in this country, we have the Constitutionally-protected right to vote, we're the ones paying our taxes to foot the bill for all this. we have free and complusory universal education and a high standard of living and access to libraries and news and other sources of information. it's tempting to say that we could end it all right now if we simply got off our asses, took an interest in the fucking world, and elected better people. why does the person who spends more money on ads always end up winning? why can't we all educate ourselves until we see through all the bullshit and fucking do something about it?

i don't know. i don't have an answer. i vacillate between optimism and despair like a yo-yo. i try to stay educated, i try to take part, i vote... but i don't know if i have faith in this democracy anymore.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:18 / 24.08.04
What do you want me to do about it?

Actually, having listened to that, I think "read a newspaper" would be a good place to start. So, Johnny, what are the values that you think Schwarzenegger brings to office? What do you think of his policies?
 
 
flufeemunk effluvia
22:40 / 24.08.04
His large nipples, for one.

Seriously, the problem in this election is that the people in charge (the GOP) have such an effectively mobilized campaign machine they easily sway the people while the left looks like a bunch of wackjobs foaming at the mouth. Not neccesarily true, but hey, who said politics was TRUTH?
 
 
sleazenation
22:47 / 24.08.04
Or, If you are American "get up off your fucking arse - register to vote now and then vote this November" it isn't that hard.
 
 
+#'s, - names
02:54 / 25.08.04
Does it really matter? Bush is Skull and Bones. Kerry is Skull and Bones. Obvious set up. How is it possible that an elitist Yale club that admits 15 members a year has two presidential nominees? When you fear your guy has a possiblity of losing, you just stack the deck. Bow down to the graven image of the Donkephant!

The real question is, if Bush or Kerry are in line to the be the new Outer Head, who is the Inner Head?

I do a write in ballot every four years, have since i was 20, click here if you are the least bit curious.

When this is all said and done, just remember, DONT BLAME ME! I VOTED FOR KODOS!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:42 / 25.08.04
The bonesman issue was raised above. Certainly, I think we can be confident that the actions that Kerry would take are still a long way from the actions we might in an ideal world want from a President of the USA. We may not even wnat to have a president of the USA. At that point, pragmatism kicks in - are the possible benefits of a Kerry presidency over a Bush presidency worth the time it takes to vote? To try to persuade other people to vote? To volunteer in a voter registration programme? Would your time be better spent, say, as an activist for another cause?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:55 / 25.08.04
I imagine a greater number of people will vote this year than the last election year, but nobody is expecting that number to even reach fifty five per cent...

Well yeah, but this is a part of a general trend in Western democracy - watch the turn-out, for example, in the next UK elections drop off to such an embarassing degree that it almost certainly ought to, but almost certainly won't do, raise some very serious questions about Not Labour's mandate to continue in office - and, to paraphrase, get over it dude.

While it's easy enough to despair of US politics, and I do take the point, it's still worth asking yourself if you're really prepared to have another four years of Dubya's work on your conscience, which I do think you'll have to, if you don't at least try and do something about it. If Bush does in fact pull off his maiden victory, there'll be plenty of time to get maudlin in bars or on the internet later, but until that happens, it was close thing last time, and it will be again, so it seems a bit early to just give up the ghost.

That said, if you're really intent on voting for Arnie, ( and I entirely agree he'd be a far superior Republican leader, but then so would Paulie Shore, ) why not just rent out a few of his movies, and stay at home instead.
 
 
Ganesh
22:48 / 25.08.04
The point that's already been made is that, America being the sole hyperpower left on the globe, American politics affects pretty much everyone on the planet - so the apathy of Joe Bloggafeller of Inbreed, Arizona directly affects Prisoner no.837, Guantanamo Bay, etc., etc. all over the world.

Will that degree of responsibility motivate Americans to get off their arses and vote? I guess we'll see.
 
 
Ganesh
22:49 / 25.08.04
I entirely agree he'd be a far superior Republican leader, but then so would Paulie Shore

So would Paulie Walnuts. Or a houseplant.
 
 
+#'s, - names
23:57 / 25.08.04
The bonesman issue was raised above.
Just in passing. Always just in passing. I think it needs to be explored more in depth. I have an agenda, certainly. One of freedom, not for one face of a two sided coin pointing up. Honestly, I will vote for Kerry this year, all my friends are doing it, it's the cool thing to do. If Kerry wins it will take a small amount of pressure off America for being well, Americans, but what are people going to say when the same shit starts all over again? 9-11 opened up a terrible can of worms, that shit isnt going to stop, it's going to happen again no matter who is in charge. America isnt going to stop pushing people around in retaliation, and it's going to keep on spiraling out of control. Who will be blamed then? Blaming it on the previous administration only goes so far.

Would your time be better spent, say, as an activist for another cause?
Well, I spent a decent chunk of my unemployed summer volunteering at the kucinich campaign headquarters, about a ten minute walk from my apartment. Everyone knew he would never get anywhere due to his honesty, compassion and commitment. Nice guys finish last, especially when they are busy communicating and working with their constituants and not making back room deals with the inner head.

Side-note Kucinich is awesome, I mean, running into a guy at the food co-op that is running for President (sure, getting an average of 0-3% of the primary votes) is a pretty funny/cool thing. A vegan that proposes a department of peace? Really cool thing.

so the apathy of Joe Bloggafeller of Inbreed, Arizona directly affects Prisoner no.837, Guantanamo Bay, etc., etc.

I went to Arizona two years ago. Beautiful state with beautiful people. Why the inbreeding comment? Do you have some contempt for the people of arizona? Or was it just a put any random state of the union here? Or just general disdain for americans? I have a friend who went to ASDOH, and is up on all the latest techniques. I thought that being a leftist was about being a uniters, not dividers? Sure, if you are inbred, you don't have diverse genes, but still god's creatures.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:47 / 26.08.04
I think it needs to be explored more in depth.

Then let's shall (and I wouldn't take offence on behalf of Arizonans everywhere - I imagine Ganesh was simply grabbing a midwestern state, and bear in mind that here in the UK we don't have incest taboos like you guys). Personally, while I certainly agree that it is very *unhealthy* that the two potential Presidents of the United States were both members of the same University Club, I don't find it entirely surprising. After all, if you want to be president you have to start pretty early, one part of which is making the right connections at university. The number of universities you can profitably go to are profoundly limited (again, not saying this is right, only that this is the case), and of those attending many will actually be there for the education, so the pool shrinks again.

So, yes, there is certainly not much likelihood that Kerry will abolish the military or institute free food for everyone. He is ideologically a lot further away from most of us, I would imagine, than Kuchinich. However, at this stage it is, in the short term at least, about the least worst option, yes? Kerry has the potential to build some global consensus, he is less in hock to the house of Saud and other planet-scale vested interests, he is less of a gun-toting alcoholic bible-thumping *nutter*... you might decide that the only way to keep yourself pure is to avoid the process of voting altogether, or to waste your vote in some satirical fashion, but that has to be a personal decision that has taken into account the succour it will provide to the extreme right. It does not alter my belief that voting for Kerry is a not-too-time-consuming task which, although not as satisfying as voting for Dean or Kerry or Noam Chomsky, does have the advantage of being possible, and might make the US and the world a very slightly safer and more just place.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:02 / 26.08.04
Its interesting that not everyone who hates Bush supports Kerry,

One does not have to believe the worse the better, but we have to consider candidly the foreign policy consequences of a renewal of Bush's mandate. As dangerous as it is, Bush's re-election may be a lesser evil. - John Pilger

The argument seems to be that Bush's diplomatic incompetence is actually a boon for the world, since it drastically limits US imperialist and militarist options. If you also consider the state of denial about the economy and the cost of the peace in Iraq, this argument definitely looks like it has something to it. Pilger is also argues that Democrats are no better than Republicans in terms of human rights abuses and foreign policy, which I think stands up fairly well.

But I don't think I am convinced in the end, and certainly don't think it works from a domestic US point of view, but it is interesting nonetheless.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:31 / 26.08.04
Agreed - to name just one issue, I suspect there are plenty of American women who are pretty keen to see their reproductive rights maintained, and would definitely not agree with the idea that the differences between a Bush and Kerry administration would be negligible, or that a Bush re-election would be preferable, on that basis alone.
 
 
diz
14:32 / 26.08.04
Will that degree of responsibility motivate Americans to get off their arses and vote? I guess we'll see.

if you asked most Americans about our global responsibilities, you'd mostly find the country divided between the isolationist pole (we have no responsibilities - we can barely take care of ourselves) and the neocon position (we have a responsibility to kick the shit out of the bad guys and bring "freedom" to the teeming hordes), because that's pretty much the spectrum of mainstream American cultural responses to the outside world. certainly, there are progressive American voices, but they're totally marginalized.

the US mainstream is pretty much united in believing that the developing world is uniformly a totally fucked-up place universally dominated by rampant poverty and oppression. the idea that the US could even possibly be in any way responsible for that fucked-up state of affairs has zero traction with the voters and never, ever comes up in political debate.

i'm going to break down the American political consciousness as i understand it.

------------------------------

it is beyond question in American public discourse that the world is fucked up, poor, and oppressed because the world has always been fucked up, poor and oppressed. that's just the default state. America is a special place because we overthrew our tyranny, and established the first and best free country in the world where the American Dream of prosperity and peace thrived. by hard work we have earned our two cars and houses in the suburbs, and by the blood of our patriots has our freedom been preserved.

oh, and your freedom has been preserved, too. we saved your asses (and by "your," i of course mean "everybody's") in WW II and defeated the Commie menace during the Cold War. we did it all, simply because we believe in freedom and want you to be able to free yourselves the way we freed ourselves and enjoy the benefits thereof.

however, you don't seem to be capable of doing that. the reasons for that can be hotly debated between several options: corrupt and/or dictatorial leaders, a servile tendency to expect the government to do things for you, adherence to primitive local non-Christian religious beliefs, wallowing in resentment of our freedom and prosperity, or some combination of the above, are the usual big ones.

now, ideally, the poor folk should get off their asses, stop feeling sorry for themselves, work harder, and overthrow their own tyrannical masters or die trying. however, the political realist is forced to concede that that's not likely to happen. so the questions become: how best to encourage them to do what we have already done, and how far should we be willing to go and how many sacrifices should we be willing to make to help them?

clearly, we've already made a lot of sacrifices. we allow millions of people from poor countries to come here, first of all. second of all, we saved your asses from Hitler and Stalin, as mentioned above. how much more should we do to alleviate the suffering of the world?

the pessimist position is that the world is beyond our help, and we should just close the borders, refuse to intervene in troubles abroad, and basically do nothing other than provide moral support when people in the developing world decide to finally get their act together. this is the Pat Buchanan position.

the optimist position is that the world is fixable, and we should be involved in fixing it to some degree. the more moderate faction believes that we should work through the system to the fullest degree possible, and resort to war as the last resort only and should try to work within the law. outside of that, we should try to help through support for international institutions and the spread of American capitalism and the attendant opportunities for development. this is the Kerry/Clinton/Gore/etc position.

the less moderate optimist position is that the entrenched bureaucracies and legal red-tape and corrupt international institutions are serious impediments to getting the job done. these liberal/Euro elitists they live in luxury and effete, European decadence, comfortably isolated by the sacrifice of brave men and women in uniform from the harsh realities of the world to such a degree that their brains have gone soft with socialist claptrap and they've lost their moral center. such bodies should be appeased only to the degree that it's expedient to do so, but we can't allow their diktats from the Ivory Tower to get in the way when there are tyrants to be overthrown and people to be freed. this is the Reagan/Bush II neocon position.

anything outside of these positions, especially anything that even suggests that American power may have something to do with poverty in the developing world, is America-hating nonsense peddled by drug-addled college students going through a phase, resentful minorities who should spend less time bitching and more time working, conspiracy wackos, opportunists making money off peddling lies, and tenured eggheads who are suckling at the public teat and using that support to spew their insane diatribes.

------------------------------

as long as that's the spectrum of political debate, what chance do we have of making real progressive change? the vast majority of the voters just do not see the problem, and you can't make them see the problem when the debate is framed in this way. i can vote for whoever i want, but the terms of the debate more or less rule out a candidate i could actually vote for actually getting anywhere. changing the terms of the debate means changing the way people see the world on a mass scale, and doing that would require a hell of a lot more access to money, media power, and the education system than we have.

yes, theoretically, everyone could get up in November and elect decent people, but since they don't see things the way they would need to to conclude that that was even necessary, it's not going to happen, and the small group of people who get it are a drop in the ocean of American ignorance.

it's easy for people outside the US to criticize US progressives for not doing more, but if you're in the developed world, chances are you've got an electorate which is leaps and bounds more politically sophisticated and more informed about the way the world outside your own borders works then we do.

getting more control of the media requires political power we don't have, and getting political power requires media access we don't have. there's no way to break in.

so.... what do you suggest we do? i really have no fucking idea, personally. i voted for Nader last time to build up support for a third party, but i wouldn't have if i had lived in a swing state. i'm voting for Kerry because Bush is just beyond the pale, but that's about it.
 
 
grant
14:40 / 26.08.04
Yeah, that Supreme Court business is really the scary part, since the left-leaning appointees are already way past retirement age.

I do think the Congress has the potential to counterbalance whoever's in office, if it is so inclined... so I think some of the wacky congressional elections coming up (Jack Ryan? His replacement Alan Keyes? Eugenicist James Hart? It all builds up over time...) could make a bigger difference than whoever's sitting in the Big Chair. They're the ones who have to (in theory) OK whatever comes out of the Oval Office.
 
 
grant
14:45 / 26.08.04
(That last to Flyboy. I totally agree with that above summary of the mainstream American viewpoint on international affairs, though.)
 
 
Perfect Tommy
16:55 / 26.08.04
[Kerry] is ideologically a lot further away from most of us, I would imagine, than Kuchinich. However, at this stage it is, in the short term at least, about the least worst option, yes?

There's also the matter that we have a representative government; while my progressive values mean that it is very important to protect minority rights against the tyranny of the majority, a candidate who represented my views perfectly wouldn't represent the rest of the country very well. So while I might personally like Dean or Kucinich, I thought that Kerry made a better candidate from the beginning... a perfect candidate is more conservative than I am, to properly represent the folks in red states, without being an neocon with dreams of empire.


getting more control of the media requires political power we don't have, and getting political power requires media access we don't have. there's no way to break in. so.... what do you suggest we do?

This is a decent analysis of the problems in our current plurality voting system vs. instant runoff voting. "The simple solution is to institute IRV in the United States, a step that many communities across the country have already taken. But to do this at the national level will require the agreement and participation of at least one of the two major parties - which is why many Progressives are supporting the Greens and, at the same time, infiltrating and becoming active in the Democratic Party."

Infiltration is slow, but I think it's a more viable option than continually throwing up third-party candidates, be they Naders or Perots, who serve as little more than spoiler candidates.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
16:58 / 26.08.04
(For the sake of completeness, I just ran across an article bringing up potential problems of IRV. Do these occur in states that use it?)
 
 
Hieronymus
18:10 / 26.08.04
I work at a liberal arts university in Colorado (a key battleground state) and the last month or so we've been working with NewVotersProject.org in an effort to rally the students into registering to vote, to try to overwhelm the usual voter apathy in the face of this major need for change...

And while it's only been 30 days or more, I have to say, with the clock ticking, the response has been tepid at best. As Johnny O'Clock is speaking to, most everyone I talk to wants Bush out of office but is so underimpressed by Kerry or any political invigoration of any sort, that registration has been limited to about 10 people this month. 10 in a school of over 3000 students with the October deadline not far on the horizon at all. The students I've talked to say "Oh, I'll do it later" and never end up filling out the forms (In Colorado it's a breeze. All you have to fill out is your name, current address, last 4 digits of your Social and your signature).

Nobody can be arsed enough to get out there and actually change things. And it's frustrating as hell to watch. Does anyone have any suggestions what I can do (voter reg parties, etc) that would get people interested in registering to vote? And if anyone else is involved in the voter registration process, how is it going where you're at?
 
 
alas
18:40 / 26.08.04
Just wanted, first, to agree that dizfactor's made-for-US-tv history of the world synopsis feels right on, to me. Depressingly so. It's what made so many people say, with shock, "Why do They Hate Us?" after 9/11, and come up with only one answer: "They're Jealous of our (Hard-Earned, Honestly-Acquired) Wealth and They Hate our Freedom!" Uggggh. I teach these kids and I have no idea how to move students from that simplistic analysis, especially when you see it basically repeated, in slightly bigger words, in the "liberal" NY Times by people like Thomas Friedman. Ugggh.

I voted for Gore last time; I've got a Kerry sticker on my car and my daughter's canvasing for ACT, but I'm feeling pretty dismal. And, as an American woman, I can say that it WILL make a difference for reproductive rights and our basic human rights if we have another Bush regime. I urge people to avoid just wasting their votes. And have you noticed what's happening to the national debt? We may never get out of this mess--Reagan had nothing on this man in terms of his ability to ring up a huge deficit.

And, finally, I still think we need BOTH infiltratration of the dems AND strong third party voices. I'm tired of the simplistic "spoiler" explanation: Martin Luther King couldn't be mainstreamed without the contrast of Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. The center has moved far to the right in this country; when you look at Nixon's policies, he's probably too liberal for the democrats today.

We have to have strong, seriously left wing voices to keep the center from moving any further to the right. I don't buy that third party candidates simply "spoil"--they keep alternative ideas at least somewhat in the mainstream media because if there's a presidential candidate from a somewhat visible third party saying them, they have to pay at least marginal attention to them. And often those ideas DO later get adopted by the big parties.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
18:54 / 26.08.04
Well, one can attempt to get a message addressed without putting your name on the ballot, if you're Michael Moore or Swiftboat Veterans for Truth. (Still that breaking-into-media problem, of course.) I agree that a strong third-party contender can affect the terms of debate, but the math is all screwy; it would be nice if a third-party contender could affect the debate in the way you say without fouling up the ballot because we hadn't quite gotten this democracy figured out when we invented our electoral system...
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
18:21 / 27.08.04
read a newspaper

Would it disturb you to know that I stand by my statement despite the fact that I read a newspaper and catch the BBC World News nightly?

My point is this: I'm trying to stop him and am getting nowhere. Maybe you should give it a shot if Bush bothers you so damn much. And should you discover, upon giving it a shot, that you also get nowhere, then....

....hell, it's only four more years. I think you'll make it through alright.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:32 / 27.08.04
I'll say this - NYC (where I live) is a pretty wild place to be this week... I'm glad The Big Apple is telling Bush to go fuck himself, cause that's how I feel.

Bush will probably win, but until election day, we can't give up. There is still a shot for Kerry. The odds seem about 60% Bush, 40% Kerry. Or maybe 55% Bush, 45% Kerry. It'll be close if the voting machines or Supreme Court or fucking corporate Republican behemoths don't intervene and fuck it all up like last time.
 
 
w1rebaby
00:07 / 28.08.04
If Bush is definitely going to win, apparently nobody has told him, considering the amount of time and money the Republicans spend trying to make sure every serious issue is kept off the agenda. In fact, they rarely seem to do anything else; the current tactic seems to be "make up distraction after distraction until November" and "repeat after me: the economy is strong and getting stronger".

And y'know, maybe it will work. The Democrats don't seem to be getting any sort of serious message through very well. But they might not. It's certainly not pre-ordained. Getting the Democrats out too and instituting something better for the world, that's a bit harder, but there's no specific reason why that can't happen either.

Really though... you've tried to stop him and you're getting nowhere. What do you expect? This is politics. It takes thousands, tens of thousands, millions of people over a long period of time to change any orthodoxy, if it ever happens. You're not Superman, you're a part of history. I said this on another board, but "think global act local" is the Atkins Diet of political action, without the ketosis. It provides small immediate gains that keep you going on the longer-term ones. Concentrating on one issue, or a small local victory, not only does good overall but is more likely to meet with success and keep you from feeling that sense of "oh for fuck's sake this is a waste of time".
 
 
grant
02:59 / 28.08.04
Two things I've heard in the past 24 hours:

No incumbent has ever won in a bad economy (and the Fed appear to be ready to raise interest rates, which'll tighten things up).

West Virginia currently has 17 percent unemployment. That's nearly one in five people. Not the wealthiest state in the union, but still... if that's an indicator, it's a hell of an indicator.
 
 
Nobody's girl
13:45 / 28.08.04
Derelict Mass Perhaps you could start shaming the students by putting up big posters everywhere detailing exactly how few students have signed up? "This month only 10 students have registered to vote.", "You say you want rid of Bush, so how come only 10 of you registered to vote last month?" and "You say you want Kerry to lose, so how come only 10 of you registered to vote last month?" (I'm not sure how partisan you can be).

See if you can enlist students to help sign up people as well, surely the university has Republican and Democratic societies? Enlist the already politically active students and offer a prize to the person who gets the most people registered.

In Colorado it's a breeze. All you have to fill out is your name, current address, last 4 digits of your Social and your signature

Have you tried advertising how easy it is? Perhaps the students are expecting a long complicated form and if they were reassured of how easy it is they'd be more likely to register?
 
 
Simplist
18:58 / 28.08.04
Must confess up front I've only lightly skimmed the posts in this thread, and thus will comment only on the perceived stateside political zeitgeist from my vantage point here in San Francisco, CA:

Yes, barring scandals or gargantuan missteps in the debates, Bush is going to win. It will be close, but not 2000-close; Bush will get less than 50%, but will still finish a solid 1.5 to 2.5 percentage points ahead of Kerry. Nader's vote count will be larger than the Bush/Kerry difference in at least a few important states, and, justly or no, he'll be the most despised figure on the American left for years to come. All things considered, it's going to be a deeply depressing November...

I blame the Democrats, frankly, both for not running a likeable candidate and for failing to do what it takes to support the candidate they've got; the Dems at the national level just don't seem to have the stones to compete with the take-no-prisoners style of the Republicans.
 
 
ibis the being
21:06 / 29.08.04
Despite what news you're reading or watching, Johnny, you sound woefully misinformed. Anyone who claims nothing can be done in any election must not have paid attention to the last election. I personally never used to think that "one vote makes a difference" until that election came down to 500ish votes. Anyone who thinks it's okay to not participate, by not "just" voting, is basically giving the fuck-off to the hundreds of black voters who motivated to show up to the polls but were illegally scrubbed.

Anyone who says "it makes no difference who wins" must have missed the Patriot Acts One and Two, the illegal war on Iraq, the US govt getting away with lying to our faces for four years. Anyone who says "we deserve what we get" (WE?) says gay American citizens deserve to have a Constitutional Amendment that strips them of their rights, that American women deserve to have the govt control their bodies and jeopardize their health, that American families deserve to lose their jobs and homes, that young American soldiers deserve to risk their lives for the sake of corporate interests and political power plays, that soldiers' families deserve to lose the lives of their loved ones for the sake of a lie.

And you're wrong about the price of oil, which is expected to double if things continue the way they're going.

Fuck. You may be an apathetic, America-hating, people-hating anarchist, but "we" aren't. And if the people around you are supposedly "anti-Bush" but aren't bothering to vote, well, I suspect you're not in the winningest company. I truly don't think, and apologies to any exceptions-to-the-rule present, that late teens and early twentysomethings (which I'm guessing you and the people you're talking to are) are accurate indicators of the populace at large.

Most people I've spoken to are anti-Bush and can't wait to cast their votes - for Kerry, because like it or not that's the only way to defeat Bush - in November. And everyone I've spoken to realizes how important it is to vote this year.
 
 
Hieronymus
14:19 / 30.08.04
Perhaps you could start shaming the students by putting up big posters everywhere detailing exactly how few students have signed up? "This month only 10 students have registered to vote.", "You say you want rid of Bush, so how come only 10 of you registered to vote last month?" and "You say you want Kerry to lose, so how come only 10 of you registered to vote last month?" (I'm not sure how partisan you can be).

Well I think the lean is to try to be as non-partisan as possible, for fear that anyone who is Republican at this school (the odds of which would not be exaggerated at 3000 to 1) would feel pressure to vote against their political beliefs.

But I do like the idea of shaming students into just registering to vote in general. I'll bring that up at the next registration meeting I have with other staff. It's a Buddhist school so the tagline we've been using on posters, et al is "Get off the damn cushion and vote".

See if you can enlist students to help sign up people as well, surely the university has Republican and Democratic societies? Enlist the already politically active students and offer a prize to the person who gets the most people registered.

Unfortunately it's not quite large enough (or mainstream enough) to warrant a Repub or Dem society. It's a rather tiny school compared to the state university nearby. But we are trying to work with the student union in an effort to draft them into pitching in to help register other students.

Have you tried advertising how easy it is? Perhaps the students are expecting a long complicated form and if they were reassured of how easy it is they'd be more likely to register?

Yeah. We have large example posters of the form with only the required parts highlighted. The difficult part is that the forms indicate that a Colorado driver's license is required, which isn't true. We just don't have forms that reflect the new laws. If people don't read our notices, it probably scares them off if they don't have a Colorado ID.

But yeah, our displays and registration stands need more oomph.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
19:05 / 30.08.04
Ibiz goes xtreme: Should he be re-elected, George Bush will teach America an important lesson. The fact that people are dying for less than noble causes, rights are being removed, and jobs are being lost doesn't make that lesson any less important. It's a tragedy and it sucks, but people will learn from it. And maybe, when this is all over, the average american voter will be that much smarter. They'll know what happens when you vote a fool like Bush into the White House and fail to get him out of it when he and his crew prove to be even more amoral than anyone thought. Maybe it's an example of learning a lesson the hard way, but hey, there's no more complete way of learning a lesson.

And if there's one thing I learned from the last election, it's that general shadiness, friends in high places and cover-ups will get you further than the popular vote. So maybe that "one vote can make a difference" thing is bullshit.

Still, though, let's say that it's not bullshit. But the thing is, if it's a fair fight and Bush wins it's because the majority of voting Americans are more in favor of him than the other guy. And yes, that sucks sour frog ass. But you don't have the right to order them to vote the other way, no matter how right you think you are. Everyone has to vote honestly or the whole thing is pointless (which it might be anyway. But here's hoping, eh?).

If I'm wrong, and more voting Americans want Kerry, well then great, that's fucking wonderful. I'm sure all the problems you mentioned will disappear like a fart in the wind. But from my angle, it seems like most voting Americans (never mind the youth at this point) want Bush back for whatever reason. And if this should be the case, go ahead and scream about how terrible it all is and see what good it does you. Or you can start dealing with it.

So go ahead. Rock the vote. I'll be there, but like I said, I'm doubting anything will come of this particular attempt at regime change. Let's all hope I'm wrong. I won't welcome the "I told you so"'s, but fuck it, let's hope I'm wrong.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:43 / 30.08.04
I really don't think that Bush will win, not if it comes down to the general election and the electoral college. He could be installed again, or his thugs may rig some things in his favor, but that's all different.

Based on analysis of current polling data, it's not looking good for Bush.

And this doesn't even account for the (possibly huge) number of first-time voters who more than likely will be voting for Kerry as a bloc.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:54 / 30.08.04
And really, the economy is so crap right now that a lot of swing states and "barely" or "weak" Bush states could go to Kerry without being that big of a shock.

I don't think it's really THAT much of a stretch for Kerry to win this decisively.

It's also worth noting that since the media is run almost exclusively by right wing interests, we're hearing a lot of "bad news" for Kerry primarily to psyche out people who may vote for him. This might work, or it might just be a lot of bullshit. The hatred for GWB and his thugs is very intense, quite a lot stronger than gets across in ANY mainstream channels.
 
  

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