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The Big Spiderman 3 thread

 
  

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Hieronymus
12:36 / 16.11.06
Ahahaah I love that, as you'll see if you click the link I posted above again, the person who uploaded it to YouTube has cleverly changed the title and description to evade Sony's search patrol...

Well I'm guilty of that link change. The original link you posted was smacked down by Sony. I just found that subversive one and replaced it for you, Cameron. Hope you don't mind.

As the saying goes... you can't stop the signal.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
13:45 / 17.11.06
Erik Larsen in his latest column points to an intersting implication in regards of the Sandman being tied to Spidey's origin in the movie.

the first part of the column, not the 'retcon in comics' bit.
 
 
Mistoffelees
18:46 / 07.03.07
7.5 minutes from the new movie

Peter and MJ, Peter and Auntie, plus Peter fighting one of the three villains.
 
 
Hieronymus
19:11 / 07.03.07
christ, is there any doubt Rosemary Harris is the premeir actor of those films?

She makes me miss my grandma.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:40 / 29.03.07
a pleasant bump, since there are lots and lots of new images, trailers and such for this upcoming film. Venom is here, and he's here to stay. I have high hopes for this one since Raimi is aces.
 
 
Mug Chum
06:44 / 30.03.07
I'm not a huge spidey fan, just used to read my older brother's old issues when I was 12 (and became a fan for about a year) so most of my memories now are from the films so don't shoot; I'm confused that Raimi would discharge the wrestling robber from Uncle Ben's death.

Wouldn't that kill the whole "it's my fault, great powers come..." drive (and angst)? Perhaps Raimi is killing all the emo angst by going "it wasn't your fault, Pete! Go and have a honeymoon filled with supermodel-slash-actress sex already!... phew, finally, we won't have to hear about how his uncle died and his responsibility in every issue". If that could actually reach canon, and make Spidey a uppy guy again, I could start buying his comics again (speaking of which, I have to check out that "SM loves MJ" I hear is super-corny and sunny-side funny).

I don't know what to expect from the film. For instance, I heard Raimi was forced to put Venom -- I used to love ultra-violent teethy-psycho-drooling-monster Venom as a kid (don't know if I'd like him now) and saw him as Spidey's Joker (don't ask me how or why), and I think most (non-readers) folks who have only a vague knowledge see him in that way too (in both films, I'd get out of the cinema with my friends, them saying "why didn't they put that Venom already?" and they'd call the uniform "Venom" as well, even when Spidey's wearing it, which I find sort of funny -- unless it's today's canon).

I'm not a huuuge fan of the films, but they were unbelievably well made (well... #2 a lot more than the first) to the point of attracting non-readers and making them not see teh silly without being teh serious, so I'll be sad if this is final. And at the same time sort of glad for the tone of epic-trilogy "respectful (whoop-ass!) film" Raimi might have created for fans for years to come (I don't really think it'll stand the test of time, but it'll last a few years like Burton's Batmans).

And now, for fan-wish whine: "I just wish" that this 3rd would have been the 4th. I just loved and wanted to see on screen the mid-20's single, uppy-smiley, not-so-nerdy and broke Spidey-Peter from the eighties (unlike the second film: broke, single, sad & loser -- but that was such a well-webbed screenplay and movie I can't even complain and fan-whine properly -- who else would've thought of that "Raindrops keep fallin on my head" montage and such great jokes at Pete-d-loser's expense and many other Laugh-out-Loud moments like May on the ledge?).

But... is it a sin to say in the film thread that I'm expecting the game more than the film just to sling through the city?
(*runs away in fear*)
 
 
FinderWolf
19:28 / 12.04.07
not at all, the video game looks fun!

just two weeks left... talks of a fourth film are up in the air, but it seems like this would be a nice way to go out, 3 strong films (hopefully; I expect #3 to be pretty great, given Raimi's track record and the actors involved, also screenwriter Alvin Sergeant working his usual magic) and boom, you're done.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:19 / 29.04.07
This week!
 
 
TroyJ15
06:45 / 01.05.07
Wow! My thread is still here? Hell!
Well, for the record my predicitions for the film are it'll have the best and worst elelments of one and two. Which means, good action, Kirsten Dunst not allowed to act as good as she is, and still too sappy. Raimi's gonna have alot of fun with the horror elements just like he did with Ock's arms in two.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:35 / 01.05.07
I think we should have a best-of predictions compilation.

the [black] cat's the landlord's daughter from across the hall.
 
 
Janean Patience
11:57 / 01.05.07
A semi-relative who attended the British premiere was looking forward to the film as much I was. The previous two were aces; why shouldn't this be the same? He was, according to a second-hand account, very disappointed.

There's not been a film this year that I've looked forward to that hasn't disappointed. Hot Fuzz, 300, Sunshine were all so-so, and Grindhouse has been split so that's that fucked. I may as well face it. The best thing about the cinema is the pick 'n mix.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:45 / 01.05.07
The average of several online reviews I've seen has mostly been Very Good But Not Excellent; with most saying that perhaps the film tried to cram too much in, with some complaining about tonal changes/shifts that they found jarring or whatever. Some people totally loved it, though, with no reservations.

Who knows; I expect it to be terrific and I honestly can't conceive of Raimi + Spidey disappointing me.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:19 / 01.05.07
yeah, this particular review from Dark Horizons (who I usually find to be agreeable once I've seen the same film) makes me a lil bit concerned.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:28 / 01.05.07
Yes, but it would have been better if they had focused on bringing in the Midnight Sons.

God, Vlad just keeps on giving. This movie will never be as good as the one in my head, with Morbius and Blade.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:46 / 01.05.07
God, Vlad just keeps on giving. This movie will never be as good as the one in my head, with Mobius and Blade.

I know you didn't mean to spell Morbius 'Mobius' and it'll be changed post-moderation, Haus... but I gotta say I'm willing to cough up $8 to see your version.

Vampires don't hate just sunlight. They hate math.

Most of them anyway.
 
 
akira
16:46 / 01.05.07
I've seen that movie in your head and dont like the ending.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:52 / 01.05.07
This film does sound dangerously close to being Sam Raimi et al's 'Be Here Now' (the bloated third episode after the first's peppy zing, and the second's slightly angst-ridden, lighter-waving weepfest) but on the other hand, shouldn't anyone who honestly thinks 'Batman Begins' is a 'transcendent macabre aria' at least consider having a long rest somewhere quiet, by the seaside?
 
 
CameronStewart
01:45 / 04.05.07
Caught an advance screening this evening.

I think it's better than the first but unfortunately not as good as the second (which I watched again the other day and was impressed all over again with how near-perfect it is). There's some really weird, uneven pacing and the script is all over the place because of the number of characters and plotlines (probably too many) they have to cram in. The plot also relies very heavily on coincidence to propel it, which seems pretty awkwardly contrived in places.

But the film scratched more than enough fanboy itches for me that it was still a lot of fun to watch - the "birth" scenes of both Sandman and Venom were incredible, the actiion/fights were eye-popping, there was a lot of really great quirky comedy bits (I anticipate one particular scene to be the most hated in the film, but I thought it was really funny - more on that later when more people have seen it), Bruce Campbell was great, Gwen Stacy was gorgeous...

It's worth seeing.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:05 / 04.05.07
cool, thanks Cam for the review. Looking forward to seeing this --
 
 
Mug Chum
06:17 / 04.05.07
I don't feel like commenting too much at this point.

Maybe something to do with the movie.

Man, that was bad... and very embarrassing, at far too many moments.
 
 
---
07:39 / 04.05.07
Will probably move my lazy fat arse outdoors and go to see this later on, but I have a big feeling I'll regret it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:37 / 04.05.07
I know you didn't mean to spell Morbius 'Mobius' and it'll be changed post-moderation, Haus... but I gotta say I'm willing to cough up $8 to see your version.

Actually, that's Moebius, or Möbius. Mobius is the library information system of the State of Missouri. Tru fax, and potentially an even better film.

That did make me think, though - maybe this is a culture differential? I've been invited to see this with friends tonight, and can't make it, but if I _did_ make it, it would cost me about $20-24 equivalent to see it, before popcorn and snacks. For that, I usually have to be a bit invested in the property, or actually believe that it will be a very enjoyable film. With Spider-Man 3, not so much.

I'm interested by the IP bloat these comic-book properties seem to get - is it due to a loss of faith in the strength of the character stories to drive a whole film? So, Willem Dafoe as the Green Goblin or Alfred Molina as Doctor Octopus can carry it, or indeed Jack Nicholson as the Joker, but then doubts set in - So, you go to Two-Face and the Riddler, then Poison Ivy, Mister Freeze and Bane, The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and the Phoenix...
 
 
TroyJ15
11:43 / 04.05.07
Here, I posted this on my Myspace film page. Definite Spoilers. It's a full review, let me know what you think --- UGH!!!!!

Every now and then (actually, more often than not), we at Chicken and Pizza (or maybe just me), can predict the future.
I predict we are seeing the beginning of the end of the comic book movie genre. I’ll go into more detail.
In 1997, Marvel Comics, finally, released their first palpable, major motion picture attempt, "Blade." It surprised everyone --- critics and the box office.
Marvel's success with that open the floodgate for a long list of beloved properties that had never made it to the big screen.
Next came "X-Men (2000), Marvel's biggest property, which didn't "wow" critics but proved to studios that the comic book movie genre was very lucrative.
Then came the benchmark, "Spider-Man" (2002). Already considered a possible blockbuster, that film was MONSTEROUSLY successful. Marvel was the new darling for Hollywood's exploitative purposes.
Flash forward 10 years. All three franchises went onto have amazing second installments, both critical and financial successes. The fans were happy and so was Hollywood. Then, each film went to third installments. First was "Blade Trinity," a colossally stupid mess, brought on by greedy performers and a confused production. Then came "X-Men 3: The Last Stand." Halle Berry's constant demands and, Director Bryan Singer's departure soured the whole thing. 2 of the 3 films that started the genre back up had, disappointingly and drastically, bowed out.
But there was always the "Spider-Man" franchise. The 2nd film was a box office giant and, not quite appropriately, the most well-reviewed film of it's year. All the cast were back and, fanboy/director Sam Raimi, jumped right into production on the 3rd film after 2.
It's always the movies you look to the most that disappoint you some how.
Spider-Man 3 is a letdown. No film could have lived up to the critical darling that second film had become, but the third movie doesn't even feel like it exist in the same realm as Spider-Man 2 or 1. It's messy, over-saturated with wandering plot points and too cheesy for even IT'S own good.
Director Sam Raimi, now makes my short list of directors who get the keys to the castle and burn it down. Peter Jackson, suffered from it with "King Kong," Bryan Singer suffered from it with "SuperMan Returns." Over-indulgence, on Raimi's part has killed the Spider-Man movie.
The films have had a fairly strong amount of cheese, sometimes unbearable (a fact that alot of critics seems to be only now discovering), but Raimi bloats the film with cornball nonsense. Actress, Kirsten Dunst gets two musical numbers, Tobey Maguire has a dance routine, and there is a big Spider-Man parade in the middle of the film that is hard to even watch.
The plot, is like a game of connect-the-dots for Raimi and his brother (who wrote this film as opposed to the award winning screenwriter, novelist and television producers who wrote the second movie), who have characters barely interact but write them as having relationships somewhere outside the plot.
Here's how it goes, Peter Parker/Spider-Man (Tobey Maguire) goes to school with Gwen Stacy, who is dating Eddie Brock, who works with Peter at the Daily Bugle as a freelance photgrapher. Peter wants to get engaged to Mary Jane but kisses Gwen Stacy as Spider-Man. Mary Jane, runs off and, in a scene that is time-displaced with swing music, kisses Harry Osborn. Harry Osborn, who thinks Peter killed his father, has amnesia after Peter fights him as Spider-Man. All this angst allows an alien symbiote to merge with Peter, who thinks Flint Marko/Sandman has murdered his Uncle Ben, but Flint Marko really just once to get his daughter a cure for some unnamed disease she has. Flint teams up with Eddie (yeah, there is a Supervillian team-up), who merged with the alien symbiote after Peter got rid of it when he attacks Mary Jane on a date with Gwen Stacy, whose father Captain Stacy is in-charge of the case on Flint Marko, who didn't really murder Peter's Uncle, just like Peter didn't really murder Harry's father who was the Green Goblin. Whic by the way apparently the butler always knew and neglected to tell Harry until it's convenient for the plot.
A mess.
And the only people who seem to be trying to work with this mess, are the actors most neglected in the previous films, that is, Rosemary Harris, James Franco, and Kirsten Dunst. Tobey Maguire, is upstaged by a much more impressive, Topher Grace who, admittedly, should have been cast as the title character. Everyone else is inconsequential to the plot despite being shoe-horned in.
Even, the effects are muddled. Most of the action, takes place at night, and is completely indecipherable. There is one scene that features the creation of Sandman that is amazing --- if it had been in a better film.
Spider-Man, as a movie, represented a better, more contemplative breed of super-hero film. One that, despite it's past problems, was an equally human and visceral approach to the genre than what we had been accustomed to even prior to "BatMan and Robin" in 1997. Unfortunately, this, combined with Marvel's last crop of films goes the way of the Bat-nipples.
-Chicken
 
 
Seth
13:20 / 04.05.07
I totally and completely loved it and only really share Cameron's minor reservations about the plot being coincidence driven (surely it would have been a better move to scrap the Venom-as-alien storyline and have him be an Oscorp supersoldier suit that amplified aggression, rather than a meteor that conveniently falls to earth near Parker and MJ?).

It was supremely silly and overloaded with cheese, but so were the first two. It was hilarious in places and deliberately so. I think a number of people are disappointed that it went for *daft* rather than *dark*, but it's not a problem I share. I don't look to superhero movies for complexity or any sense of reality, and I loved that they went for such bizarre tonal shifts between action, humour, cheese, dance, relationship moments and plot points. But then I've rather skewed my tastes that way of late...

If Peter Parker were to properly go angst ridden very few people would be able to take him seriously. That is one of the main points of the movie. He is not suited to the brooding anti-hero role. As MJ rightly says, he's a nerd. He quips like a nerd, dances like a nerd, puts his foot in it like a nerd, broods like a nerd.

The storyline is messy, complex and soap operatic because the source material is. I loved that the film didn't resolve things between Parker and MJ. They don't talk, process their shit and kiss. Just a quiet embrace and things are left ambiguous as to the will they/won't they couple's fate. If there's never another film, or if this goes into diminishing returns with a different director and cast, that's a great way to end a trilogy.

Besides the aforementioned Venom-as-Oscorp creation, I could have done with a sequence in which Harry told the mirror Dafoe to stick his vengeance shit up his fucking arse. I could also have done with the Butler giving at least some kind of explanation as to why he didn't speak up earlier. But besides those quibbles I loved it to bits.
 
 
Seth
13:24 / 04.05.07
I guess one person can change the world. 'Nuff said.

EXCELSIOR! \m/
 
 
TroyJ15
14:15 / 04.05.07
Both of ya'll need to read Ultimate Spider-Man.

This is the mellenium, man. I don't need brooding but I don't need overbearing cheesy BS!

Would it have hurt to make the characters act like real people instead of stereotypical comic characters. Even the comics weren't this overlapping.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:27 / 04.05.07
Both Seths certainly need to realise it is the mellenium!
 
 
Spaniel
14:37 / 04.05.07
(I would love the use of the word "cheesy" to be banned. Really love that. Lots)
 
 
CameronStewart
15:08 / 04.05.07
>>>Both of ya'll need to read Ultimate Spider-Man.<<<

Mmm, I'll stick with the movies. They're more fun.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:50 / 04.05.07
Would it have hurt to make the characters act like real people instead of stereotypical comic characters.

It's fucking Spider-Man, for cry-eye! Jebus.
 
 
Mug Chum
15:57 / 04.05.07
spoilers

- Sandman's birth was beautiful.

- Ok, God forgive me: Topher Grace wasn't bad. Something about everytime he gets all cocky, we can see there's some issues and something genuinely fucked up behind all that (the "wonderful night" exchange just felt like driving home what we were feeling about him).

- The "MJ neglected and alone" plot was doing extremely well until they sort of became an American Idol couple for two minutes. After that, it went all over the place. This was one of the film's many good premises but that just didn't followed through, gone all over the place and so you kinda just forget it (I mean, I just remembered now that soap-opera plotline of Harry making MJ tell Pete there was another man; that's how much the film just went all over the damn place).

- the action is good. But it doesn't have the awareness of past "what's at stake" or "what's going on" like the 2nd film. They're just beautiful and wild and crazy but without the proper drama (it wasn't "oh no, Peter can't handle if this fails", or "hurry, you'll lose MJ's_____", or "he got Aunt May!" or "Stop, train, STOP!"; it seemed more "damn, holy sh-- that's going to be cool in the videoga--wow!"). Only the first fight scene had that emotional drive, but at that point I was already "God, stop whining about your daddy!"... You could say the same for Sandman's "death" perhaps on some of the dialogues mid-fight but something was missing.

- Thomas Hayden Church did really good out of the poor material that was given to him. I knew that was lame, but he made me not care at all (including his last scene).

- Those newscasters, damn... The type of footage, the picture's quality. The scene-breaking amount and type of exposition... (not only on information, but on how the director wanted us to feel about all that, "this... could very well be... the end... of Spiderman").

- cheese is good. It's sweet. I wanted corny and laughs. More MJ, more May, more sweet&happy Harry. Teh Darkness Dramah was embarrassing. I actually thought the film was being ironic when he was all in angst, in rage and turning the "fuck it" button on (the music made me think I was watching a satire, and it made me like it -- but other moments were saying to me teh darkness and menacing danger was straight-faced and serious -- so I had to cut down the laughs 'cause all the other fans were starting to give me ugly looks and I realized it maybe those weren't supposed to be funny scenes).

- Is Harry Batman then? And is his Alfred actually Grissom from CSI? (these sort of "holes" on the fundamentals of emotional moments that were actually more "whaaat?" left me hanging throughout the entire film). I loved Happy Harry and pretty much liked his entrace as hero by the end. But some other scenes just felt like geek empowerment, instead of (for instance) Singer's Superman's use of "the other man" without the guy being teh evil "oooh your girlfriend's tassste, aahh" and trying to justify somehow Pete the Creep.

- Oh my Gaaaaahhhh, that hair! I'm hoping that mirror scene with the hair, and Peter being all "I'm dangerous now and I kill" with the hair on his eye and shaking them while "talking though" was to make us laugh entirely. I really do.

- Was that Betty Grant (the most beautiful girl on the trilogy) scene supposed to be sort of delusional? Was the film telling us the suit was making him see things differently of what was actually happening? I got lost after the funny dance sequence on the street (it first showed women reacting positively on Peter, then it appeared to tell us "what was really going on without the blacksuit-vision").

- OMG, that american flag... How can even someone from the U.S. just not find that entirely scene-breaking?

- way too much Nutty Professor (not on the "funny parts", I mean. Just the whole dance thing on the jazz club). Just a series of one "what?" after the other. At that point, I wanted to see more from MJ since they pretty much stopped trying to make me identify with Peter Pecker (yes, Bruce Campbell rocks) a hour ago. Besides many other embarrassing factors and just low points on that scene, it seemed like genuine, and straight-faced guitly pleasure of "vengeance on ex-girlfriend" wish-fulfillment. If so, oh my...

But still think it's better than the 1st.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
16:00 / 04.05.07
Would it have hurt to make the characters act like real people instead of stereotypical comic characters.

It's fucking Spider-Man, for cry-eye! Jebus.

Unfortunately, the large percentage of reviews seem to think the same sort of thing is a valid criticism, such as "SM3 pretty well abandons the complexity and real-world pain that made the first two movies interesting" and have already declared it a flop and run great features about the curse f the threequel based on this.

Now, where's that real world pain I so love...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:08 / 04.05.07
They'd never have had this problem if the films had the pop score they should have, instead of Danny Elfman flogging his tired old horse yet again.

Producers: It's a comic book movie. Let's get Danny Elfman!

Danny Elfman: It's a comic book movie. Let's use the Batman score!

You all know that I'm right on this.
 
 
Mug Chum
16:14 / 04.05.07
Oh, I forgot one thing above:

- it's fun.


Elfman's score... yeeeah since the 1st that was a problem when it wasn't just simply forgettable...
 
 
Spaniel
16:36 / 04.05.07
Elfman is my least favourite of the big score composers.
 
  

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