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Sin City

 
  

Page: 1234(5)67

 
 
FinderWolf
20:29 / 10.05.05
I think you are right about it being the first film to use white silhouettes....any film buffs out there care to weigh in on this?
 
 
Jack Fear
02:36 / 12.05.05
Note that the August release will be a plain vanilla single disc. The two-disc set with all the backstage documentaries and deleted scenes, won't be out 'til winter.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:01 / 12.05.05
Euuughh... Thanks for pointing that out. Who wants "vanilla" and "Sin City" in the same sentence together? I'll wait til winter for all the extra stuff, full stories, etc.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:29 / 23.05.05
They've confirmed Sin City 2 (which will have A Dame To Kill For and a few other tales) and Miller talks his brand of violence over here at the BBC.
 
 
Michelle Gale
11:56 / 01.06.05
I hope they spend more money on the sequal as this just looked a bit flat and cheap, it seemed staged, shot and acted more like a play than a proper film because of the cgi and lack of props. The action scenes, especially the marv ones which i always imagined as being full of motion and flow etc were all kind of stilted and static and unsatisfying. alot was made of using the comic as a direct storyboard but that seemed to stop any kind of development in the way the stories and set pieces were presented. or something
 
 
FinderWolf
12:50 / 01.06.05
I disagree; I found the CGI to be pretty successful. I was amazed at how objects really seemed to have weight and dimension, much more so than in, say, all of the new Star Wars movies or the Hulk movie. Even the dog looked good and realistic to me. I thought the backgrounds looked surprisingly solid and three-dimensional considering they were all CGI.
 
 
Michelle Gale
13:35 / 01.06.05
But the way in which it was shot was for the most part very pedestrian and unimaginative sticking to a "comic book" way of portraying things, either static camera and dialogue or very short cuts conveying movement or action, while its interesting using comic forms of storytelling in movies, movies do some things better primerily motion and this was almost non existant in sin city especially when the comics are so kinetic. While there was a certain amount of depth, the characters didnt inhabit the enviroment they seemed very seperate from it, it didnt feel there, and it probably would have done with more elaborate sets and a bigger budget.
 
 
GogMickGog
10:09 / 04.06.05
I agree with miss Gale, the action felt incredibly static at times, like a semi-animated storyboard. The constraints of the shot-for-shot approach to the comic adaptation were evident..

After a while, the pulp atmosphere and (deliberately?) trahsy dialogue got to me. I know Miller plays his noir straight, but the reason I think "Pulp Fiction" will be remembered as a classic long after this movie is that it plays with our expectations and awareness of form, whereas "Sin City" just came across as aggro-porn for the small of penis, revelling in its own shallowness.
 
 
Spaniel
12:30 / 04.06.05
I think the word everyone's looking for is arch. It's far too fucking arch. The dialogue, the narrative, the direction, the FX, the music, every fucking thing about it.

The fact is that it's bloody difficult to get emotionally involved with a movie like Sin City. It revels in style over substance and that's compelling, but only up to a point. Sure it's nice to watch it play with form and squeeze out those genre conventions, but if if you're looking to identify with characters, or be totally immersed, well, I suggest you go watch another movie.
 
 
Spaniel
15:00 / 04.06.05
Also, I don't think it bears comparison with Pulp Fiction. Pulp Fiction might have many of the same concerns but it's also very human. The mundane dialogue draws you into the movie in a way that Sin City's arch dialogue really doesn't.
 
 
Triplets
16:41 / 04.06.05
What on Earth do you mean by 'arch', Bobo? In your personal tongue, anyway. Overarching (overbearing?), archaic? What? You thought the architecture had a negative effect like the apartment building in Ghostbusters?
 
 
Spaniel
17:16 / 04.06.05
arch-1
pref.

1. Chief; highest; most important: archenemy.
2. Extreme or most characteristic of its kind: archconservative.

arch2 Audio pronunciation of "arch" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärch)
adj.

1. Chief; principal: their arch foe.
2. Mischievous; roguish: an arch glance.


A couple of definitions that might help.
 
 
Spaniel
17:17 / 04.06.05
Anyway, Triplefren, who cares whether I liked it?

Actually I did, but just not loads. I thought it was more interesting than fun.
 
 
sleazenation
16:11 / 05.06.05
I saw this last night and had tremendous fun. It kind of strikes me that a lot of people are missing the humour in Sin City.

And lets get this straight seeing as how it seems to be a point that is missed by most movie critics. Sin City is not a piece of Film Noir. It's a pastiche of Film Noir. It's Film Noir turned up to 11. It's all the clichés of Film Noir shoved together and ramped up to ridiculous levels but, and here is the crucial part, played straight. Like Spinal Tap.

Come on people, can you really read/hear lines like 'sometimes standing up for your friends means killing a whole lot of people' without laughing?

The other thing that struck me is how faithful it remained to the look and dialogue of the comic - even the smallest details from the comic from Becky's ear rings to the shape of the broken shard of glass the Hartigan uses to free himself were all exactly the same...
 
 
Spaniel
17:54 / 05.06.05
I did laugh.

Only a berk would take Sin City too seriously.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
18:13 / 05.06.05
I thought it was a pretty worthwhile film, however, I have read the minis so many times that I exactly knew how the storylines played out that the element of surprise was lost.

I might have loved it, had the source materials not been so memorable. Rourke was the best, and Murphy the worst.

And yeah, it was fucking funny.
 
 
Yay Paul
13:29 / 06.06.05
Went to see it at the flicks on Friday (uk release), totally agree that Murphy was the worst.

Having said that however I did really enjoy it, could have been that fact I saw RotS first mind you, either way Miller managed to do a lovely job bring it over to the screen.

My personal favourites where all the little bits that made scenes great, like Marvs shadow passing over the grey wall and the cement turning white (reverse?).
 
 
A fall of geckos
13:43 / 06.06.05
“I saw this last night and had tremendous fun. It kind of strikes me that a lot of people are missing the humour in Sin City.”

Totally. It was so over the top that there were times when I couldn’t help but laugh.

I found it slightly disturbing though, that there were only 3 or 4 people in the audience who had the same reaction.

Cardinal Rourk: What the hell do you know?
Marv: I know it's pretty damn weird to eat people.
 
 
Axolotl
13:59 / 06.06.05
There was an article in the Times that completely missed the fact that it is a pastiche and therefore slated it for its sexist and violent themes.
Whether you can slate it for its sexist and violent themes because some people don't get the joke is perhaps a question that should be asked however.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:42 / 09.06.05
was very very impressed with Rourke's Marv.

Strangely, I found him more beautiful than the gals.

yeah, I lapped this up, always been a sucker for Miller when he's good.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:12 / 09.06.05
I really enjoyed it. Strangely, I found it a lot less emotionally engaging than the comics, but damn, did it look cool.
I think where it fell down was that, to my mind, Miller's most impressive trick has always been conveying movement through still pictures- when he's on form, his action scenes are second to none (except possibly Quitely on We3, but that's more of a Comics argument). On film, where the moevements ACTUALLY HAPPENING, this is kind of lost.
I still fucking loved it, though.
 
 
Spaniel
13:21 / 09.06.05
Did anyone find it emotionally engaging? If so, reasons please.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:45 / 09.06.05
I was emotionally engaged when i saw marv actually MOVE.

but no, generally it was visceral.

It was more of a technical, stylistic triumph for me.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:34 / 09.06.05
Did anyone find it emotionally engaging? If so, reasons please.

Hartigan's arc ("That Yellow Bastard") is the only one that hooked me on that level—probably because Hartigan himself is the most fully-rounded character in the film; weary, desolate, conflicted, wanting only to do the right thing but screwed from the get-go.

It helps, for purposes of identification, that he's the only compassionate, morally-functional character—that he operates from a basis of justice, rather than vengeance or naked self-interest. Hartigan's self-sacrifice (literal, in the end) underscores his engagement with a conventional morality (for convenience, call it Judeo-Christian), as opposed to the objectivist, triumph-of-the-will, brutal-war-of-all-against-all stuff going on elsewhere in the movie.
 
 
The Falcon
21:22 / 09.06.05
The bit when he gets run over a few times is rubbish, though.

Did like it, Marv was best, esp. with the plasters. Oh, the blinds at the end of Yellow Bastard were brilliant. They were total Miller blinds.

Much more effective use of tech here than Sky Captain; which is highly UN-recommended since you ask.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:10 / 09.06.05
Hartigan's arc ("That Yellow Bastard") is the only one that hooked me on that level—probably because Hartigan himself is the most fully-rounded character in the film; weary, desolate, conflicted, wanting only to do the right thing but screwed from the get-go. See, in the comics, TYN was my favourite story for precisely those reasons. No matter how many times I read it, the ending still GETS me. In the movie, it didn't, really. I didn't actually care about the characters. I loved it as a flim, but I didn't really go out of the cinema thinking about anything- once the credits rolled, it was over. I found a lot more resonance when reading it.

Style over content is I think the thing. But it's such great style. If you're looking for content, you're watching the wrong film, imho. A wonderful, wonderful spectacle. But that's all. (And hey, that's what I paid my money for, so, y'know, it;s not really a complaint).
 
 
This Sunday
00:37 / 10.06.05
Style can be the content. And 'Sin City' is definitely a case of that.
Like, McLuhan and his 'medium is the message' and all.
Unless 'content' is going to be restrained to the sort of characterization-shorthand pioneered in comedies of manners of ages past, with 'how much plot can we cram in' as a close second.
Munch's 'Madonna' has very little in the way of plot, but damned if it isn't overflowwing with content.
 
 
Spaniel
06:05 / 10.06.05
Jack, I think that's probably why they decided to wrap Hartigan's story around the narrative. They were thinking that Hartigan could be the bridge into the world of Sin City.

Didn't work for me, though. It was just too knowing, too self aware.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
07:40 / 10.06.05
Actually Bruce Willis was the worst thing in it for me - miscast totally. Because I know the man as 'movie beefcake', it was not so strange to see jessica alba squeeze up to him - and hence remove the shock and weirdness of their coupling.

clive owen's having a ball these days though, eh? lucky bastard.
 
 
The Falcon
18:38 / 10.06.05
Michael Douglas would've been better.
 
 
This Sunday
00:18 / 11.06.05
Douglas... instead of Clive Owen or instead of Bruno Willis?
On second thought, I may be better off not knowing. Like the Chris Walken as Han Solo trip, it just warps the boundaries a bit too.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
00:28 / 11.06.05
No he wouldn't. He's a fat never-was. He looks ten years older than he actually is. If Hartigan was a history professor close to retirement, Douglas would be a good fit.

I engaged with the characters in a very real way, and much less with Hartigan than with anyone else. Fully realised characters - please, girlfriend. Why on god's green fucking earth would we need that in a Sin City movie, in a Sin City anything? It's archetypes. Hartigan is a Bogart archetype, world-weary and desperately bitter. He tells everyone he's on borrowed time from the beginning. His end is never a shock, it's a culmination of everything Hartigan is supposed to be.

It's not arch. For fuck's sake, READ the definitions you posted. Most of them are irrelevant, dealing with the word as a prefix, and the last relates to Sin City in no way whatsoever. "Mischieveous, roguish"...? Idiotic. And it's not a pastiche. It references film noir in the same way that 'The Usual Suspects' does. Uses it as a starting point, and then moves on. Sin City has always been a fantasy-based, noir-based narrative. Marv's story, recently retitled 'The Hard Goodbye', is signposted throughout as a Conan-style fantasy narrative, and no more so than in the movie, where Dwight's quickie-psychoanalysis from 'A Dame To Kill For' is repeated line for line to underscore the point. Jesus, we're talking about a film in which Marv is runover three times in a row, where Clive Owen's Dwight jumps off a building, survives being blown up around five times, where Hartigan survives being shot about a dozen times (with a heart condition), and still lives to be shot up some more some eight years later on.

But just because it isn't real doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be treated seriously. Calling it 'just a laugh' is to demean it, to reduce it, to completely miss the expressionistic way in which it's drawn or shot. Sin City has always been an expressionist work, and the movie only heightens this. The use of colour is expressionist. The concept is expressionist. It satisfies virtually every criteria for being labelled such. It's not a pastiche - that has connotations of parody and subversion. Sin City, the comic and the film, adheres to noir conventions while moving beyond them, to say something entirely different.

Yes, I can hear lines like 'sometimes standing up for your friends means killing a whole lot of people' without laughing, sleaze. As you say, Sin City is played straight - but it isn't Spinal Tap. It isn't a spoof. It deserves being read straight, as if it was real. And if you don't do that - with the comic or the movie - you're missing half the point, in the same way that people who think that 'The Scream' is just a cartoonish painting, or that Kafka's 'Metamorphosis' is about someone changing into a bug, are missing half the point. Sin City may play on American ideas of gangerism and noir, but it's wholly European, specifically German, in the way it's produced, both 2D and 3D. It's abstract and existential, as Miller himself has said.
 
 
rabideyemovement
02:43 / 11.06.05
I loved it. It was much better than CATS. I will see it again and again...
 
 
Spaniel
09:08 / 11.06.05
God, Jack, I wish your posts didn't read like you're shouting. It makes it hard to want to agree with you, which is a shame because you've raised some good points.

As for my definitions, I realised after I posted them that they were somewhat lacking. I think the second definition "extreme" is pretty close to what I was getting at. Sin City plays like distilled noir - 100% proof. That can be tough to connect with.

I appreciate what you're saying about expressionism, and reading the movie (and comic) straight, but frankly I'm not sure I can, and trust me I did try.
My "too seriously" comment was an attempt to point out that the movie had running through it a skein of black, black humour. It's quite clearly not a spoof.

I'm not looking for fully realised characters, I'm looking for characters that I can engage with, and for some reason - a reason that I'm having difficulty articulating - Sin City fell totally flat on that front.
 
 
Jack_Rackem
18:19 / 19.06.05
Except the Whole Expressionist look that was the real strength of the comics in the first place never really came through on camera as it did on ink.

And Marv is Conan the Cimmerian? What the fuck?
 
  

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