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Sin City

 
  

Page: 123(4)567

 
 
Grey Area
12:16 / 06.04.05
Someone with a lot of time on their hands has a film to book frame comparison up. I haven't seen the film yet but it looks as though they've tried to be pretty faithful to the framing. Makes me more comfortable about seeing this when it finally hits the UK.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:48 / 06.04.05
>> Nothing in Sin City is serious.
Nothing in Sin City is not simultaneously a loveletter and a critique of genre and trappings.
Nothing in Sin City is serious.
Nothing in Sin City is serious.

That pretty much nails it. Although I think Miller really loves this genre, limited though it may be. All the women in Raymond Chandler's books and Dashiel Hammett's books are pretty much the same, it's similar with Miller's Sin City.
 
 
cusm
17:05 / 07.04.05
As a rabid fanboy of the original, I was completely satisfied by the film. Its everything in the comic I liked, and that says a lot. Most importantly, Marv was perfect. I was really worried about that, but I swear he's everything I ever imagined him to be, even the voice is right.

But was it good cinema? That's a little harder to tell. I loved the fuck out of it, so really can't give it an objective review to standards.

I liked that there was a bit of a teaser at the end, hinting at the Blue Eyes stories they didn't cover. They might make a good sequal with A Dame To Kill For

Speaking of which, The Big Fat Kill is a bit weaker without the previous story to set up the characters.

Anyone know when the DVD is set to be released?
 
 
diz
02:49 / 08.04.05
Mickey Rourke OWNS the movie, his Marv is just amazingly perfect. He was far and away my favourite of all the cast (and how often do you praise Mickey Rourke?),

when? ALL THE TIME, man, ALL THE TIME. Barfly, for god's sake! he was one of the greatest actors of his generation until he threw it all away to be a boxer and a drunk.

QT offered him the role of Butch in Pulp Fiction. it was written specifically for him, and meant to be his comeback movie as well as Travolta's. my heart broke when i heard that.

oh, but Sin City sucked, except for Mickey Rourke and Benicio Del Toro.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
07:02 / 08.04.05
Mickey Rourke rocks, man! The greatest actor ever to fuck up and nearly destroy himself. He would have been up there right now with Pacino, De Niro, Penn and Brando if he wasn't such a waste of space back in the '80s... shit boxer, though.

Am watching this tonight. Am excited like a motherfucker.
 
 
This Sunday
07:19 / 08.04.05
'Angel Heart' came out in the eighties. Had Mickey Rourke. There will be no 'Mickey Rourke was shit in the eighties' talk from this moment on. Or you will have to box with Mickey Rourke. Multiple busted faces and questionable boxing skills, accepted... can you box better than Mickey Rourke? Right, then.
Morrison-Wolverine's comment on fighting a T-Rex comes quickly to mind.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:16 / 08.04.05
I know Mickey Rourke received accolades all over the shop back in the 80s - Pope of Greenwich Village, Diner, etc etc - but I'm saying that his name's been the punchline to a joke for quite a while.

I still remember a Dennis Miller joke from when the news broke that Rourke was taking up boxing: "Maybe someone will hit him so hard he'll stumble into a good movie."

When I was a kid I thought "Barfly" was pronounced "BARF-lee," as in "vomit-like."
 
 
gridley
15:11 / 08.04.05
When I was a kid I thought "Barfly" was pronounced "BARF-lee," as in "vomit-like."

Heh... so did my friend Jason.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:15 / 08.04.05
>> QT offered him the role of Butch in Pulp Fiction.

What character is that? I know PF pretty well but I don't recognize the name of the character at the moment.
 
 
Triplets
19:35 / 08.04.05
 
 
Aertho
19:38 / 08.04.05
So it's all a circle, innit?

(looks around) We DO like Bruce here, right?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
21:00 / 08.04.05
Saw this earlier this week and enjoyed. Over the top, sometimes hard to watch (not to because of the violence, but because all that black and white hurts my eyes sometimes), and entertaining.

Really loved Elijah Wood. Creepy little bastard.

Am unsure if it should be been a first date movie though.
 
 
fluid_state
06:35 / 10.04.05
If they come back for a second date, it's love. Worked for Fight Club, triple for Sin City.

Great film, even if, by the end, I was a little bored. I can put the comics down, y'know? Particularily Hartigan's story. By the end of it, it was less exciting than the comic. Marv's sequence was perfect, though. Can't wait to see his mom (it would have humanized him a lot more in the theatre, but the public would, no doubt, have found it too jarring). Dwight's little devouring sex kiss was hysterical - "The fire... the fire..." had the theatre in stitches. Great job on the film, though: 75% of the acting was truly abysmal, and I still loved it.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:57 / 12.04.05
Saw this and really enjoyed it.

Was I the only one who thought the acting was worse in the first 1/3 and much much better (except for Brittany Murphy) in the last 2/3? Bruce Willis seemed over the top in the first half of his story, but very cool, subtle and much more settled in the second half. Michael Madsen is awful in his first appearance but in his second (albeit short appearance) is back to being a good actor. My friends and I wondered if the filmmakers and cast did this purposely, told the actors in the first 1/3 of the movie to be a little more over the top, to get the audience into the wacky hyper-steriod-hard-boiled-noir tone of it. But that's probably a crazy theory.

It was interesting to see which actors could hold their own and make the stylized dialogue work. Carla Gugino did really nicely with that stuff, and yes, Mickey Rourke OWNED this movie. He added so much to his role, and made Marv more believable than I ever thought he could be. Clive Owen did quite nicely too, even when we hear him trying to suppress his British accent. He really looks like Dwight. And yes, the over-the-top wild kissing with Rosario Dawson ("My valkyrie, my perfect warrior woman") got just the laughs it deserved.

So much of this was far funnier than when I read it...and I'm talking about jokes that are actually supposed to be jokes, as opposed to things that the audience laughed at which weren't necessarily supposed to be funny.

The one bad acting moment Mickey Rourke had, I thought, was when he was talking to Lucille taking his pills, ranting about the bad old days being back. People were laughing at how bad he was there, but I was thinking maybe he did that on purpose to show that Marv was getting hopped up and ranting.

Visually, the film is incredible. None of the CGI backgrounds, cars, or even the dog looked fake. Man, Episodes I and II with their Lucasfilm quadrillion dollar budgets had weak CGI and this, with its small effects house (comparitively) and pseudo-indie budget had amazing CGI. What's wrong with that picture?

Nick Stahl also made the Yellow Bastard work despite his cliche villain dialogue, a testament to his acting. When he showed up as yellow for the first time, people laughed hysterically in the audience. One person screamed "What the hell is THAT?!?!?" as if an alien had just flew into the world of Sin City on a UFO.
 
 
FinderWolf
16:59 / 12.04.05
Oh, and I also felt what many others did about the pacing -- right when Hartigan's second story arc began, I felt like I'd been sitting there for 1 1/2 hours and was ready for the movie to wrap it up. But a little while into the second Hartigan story and I was back in for the ride. Is the movie really 2 hours plus, or does it just feel like that?

Benicio really was terrific. Alba's weak acting didn't ruin her performance since she essentially played what she is, apparently - a naive, in over her head young pretty kid thrust into a grown-up professional world. That's the sense I get, at least.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:03 / 12.04.05
As for the much-discussed (here and in most reviews I've read) quote about "Dames. They just need to cry sometimes when their hands have been eaten off them", I thought it came off in the film more as emblematic of Marv's simple-mindedness and stupidity about people than misogyny on Miller's part.
 
 
FinderWolf
17:09 / 12.04.05
>> Main reason I wanted to see the proposed Depp sequence

What proposed Depp sequence? Which story would this have been with? I thought I read every interview about this movie but clearly not.
 
 
This Sunday
17:54 / 12.04.05
Check IMDB's trivia and elsewhere... there's an interview where he talks about the commercial complications of Naked Special Forces Chocolate Genius. He'd have been the main character from 'Hell and Back' which was the latest Sin City comic series. I liked it more than most did, but agree there were flaws. Heavy enough they could probably manage a movie of it all on its own. The parody angle is heavy in it, though, so stuff might need to be cut out to avoid lengthy, expensive legal battles from humorless attorneys.
 
 
Chiropteran
17:57 / 12.04.05
[ot]
Morrison-Wolverine's comment on fighting a T-Rex comes quickly to mind.

My first thought upon reading this was that Marc Bolan was going to get his ass kicked.

[/ot]
 
 
PatrickMM
19:07 / 12.04.05
The only line that really didn't work was when Shelle says "You fool...you damn fool," and the camera just seems to linger on her for thirty seconds too long. The rest seemed intentionally stylized, and worked, but this one just didn't.
 
 
Professor Silly
17:17 / 15.04.05
Now keep in mind I've only ever read the graphic novel with Marv in it, and was relatively unfamiliar with the other stories treated in the film.

That said, both my wife (who hasn't read any Sin City) and I loved this film, and plan on seeing it again.

Any film that reinforces the publics' notion that senators and bishops are hopelessly corrupt can only help the world, in my humble views.

I especially enjoyed how the three stories tied in to each other--the use of Jessica Alba's character's car in the second arc, the mentioning of the blue-eyed girl's death in the first, only hinted at again at the end...it all gave the sense that these stories are taking place all at the same time, and that this city is just filled with sin (thus the title, I suppose).

I absolutely delight in the thoughts of a Catholic (or better yet, an Evangelical like Bushie-pants) seeing this film and having a huge shit-fit: "...but where's the hero? Where's the redemption? This doesn't fit my world-view! We need to rein in these Godless creative-types before they damn us all!!!"
 
 
Chiropteran
18:26 / 15.04.05
I absolutely delight in the thoughts of a Catholic (or better yet, an Evangelical like Bushie-pants) seeing this film and having a huge shit-fit: "...but where's the hero? Where's the redemption? This doesn't fit my world-view! We need to rein in these Godless creative-types before they damn us all!!!"

And Bush flies back from Crawford in the middle of the night to sign the Sin City Bill, reining in the Godless creative-types that are out to damn us all... :P
 
 
FinderWolf
20:37 / 15.04.05
one of the best moments for me was seeing Marv down his pills in the car as he does the monologue about 'it's important to take your medication when you've got a condition', just pouring them into his mouth, pills flying all over the place.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
00:10 / 16.04.05
Just saw it again for the second time. Utterly awesome.

First of all, anyone saying Sin City (the comic - wish they'd stop calling them 'graphic novels', they aren't and it's just sad reverse-snobbery that says they are) isn't serious is, I think, entirely missing the point. They are played entirely seriously - it's a fantasy brought to life, a 'film noir' fortified, bottled and sold to us exaggerated to the nth degree. Denigrating it by calling it comedy is just a little reductive, like having a go at Superman for being 'larger than life'. It is a comic - a heightened, extrapolated, monstrous version of every comics story you've ever seen, with semi-indestructible, sociopathic/psychotic heroes and gorgeous, powerful goddess-women. It's the DC Universe with automatic weapons and a deathwish.

And so is Sin City the movie. There's almost no use referring to it as being an adaptation, because it barely qualifies as one - it's a translation, and a perfect one at that. This movie should be studied along with American Psycho and Naked Lunch (how to adapt an 'unfilmable' novel) and Adaptation (how to approach the 'unadaptable') as a part of a dissertation on how to adapt a text to a different media. In this case, simply to present everything in the text as it actually appeared in the text, without fear or favour. It's one of the most fearless movies I've ever seen. Anyone who laughed at the hard-boiled dialogue, delivered straight - try watching The Maltese Falcon or The Third Man these days (banishing completely the idea of the sacred text, if you can) and stifle a giggle. This is old-school pulp dialogue, treated with the respect it deserves - not because it's realistic, or because it's stood the test of time, but because it works for and with the medium and because it's rich with character, with history and with blood. Pulp is all about the real made ridiculous, played straight so hard it hurts. Fear of adapting this kind of hyper-realised narrative - that's not a new thing. To give an example near to my heart - Leslie Charteris' 1930s Saint novels and short stories can be cruel, bloodthirsty animals, and pre-date Fleming's Bond in that regard by over twenty years. In the original material, Simon Templar exhibits his own brand of justice : burns villains alive ; embarks on a one-man killing spree in post-Prohibition New York, gutting, strangling and shooting every bad guy he meets ; takes on the world-warmongers of the pre-atomic world with nothing but a camp quip, a gun and a deadly steel-blue gaze. How do they present this on the small screen? With Roger Moore's gentleman thief, Saint-lite, with bloodless hands and an arch eyebrow for the discerning audience at home. He's not the only pulp 'hero' to be castrated (definitely a choice word, but for more interesting reasons than you'd think) for a mass-market. That Rodgriguez, Miller and Weinstein chose not to do so shows the kind of balls you'd expect from male egotists like them, and it works beautifully.

So all the women are beautiful and barely dressed, and so all the men want to protect them. That's a convention of the genre, and in Sin City, it's sufficiently bastardised as to call the whole thing into question. Pulp is an examination of the male psyche, so of course it's going to raise questions. But the women in Sin City's fantastic, hyperreal universe can easily take care of themselves - Dwight has that hammered home often enough. He may be a street-smart murderer with a new face putting it all on the line for the women of Old Town, but Miller's women prove themselves more than capable of being their own creatures, something that actually writes back to the male-psyche-centric pulp-avatar that is Sin City. Pulp traditionally presents us with the male gaze, warts and all - Sin City is self-conscious enough to provide us with a mirror. In the end, Miho et al save his life more times than he saves theirs, and the hookers don't EVER have hearts of gold. Old Town takes care of it's own, and does so, despite the source of it's income, by virtue of being without any traditionally male input. No hierarchical structure smacking of a patriarchal, masculo-centric viewpoint, no traditional female-control methods. The only thing that 'The Big Fat Kill' proves in terms of character is that Dwight is an honourary Old Town girl, allowed to assist because he's as hard and as merciless as they are, not because he's more - Dwight is allowed the job of taking care of business because he has nothing to lose if he's caught, unlike Gail and Dallas. In his turn, Marv is allowed to keep going because they recognise that he won't be stopped by anything except death - he's a living tool of veangeance for Wendy and Gail, rendered so by the fact that he's mentally ill and an incredible masculine atavism. They allow him to complete the job, not because he's The Man of the story, but because he'll do it, and do it perfectly for their purposes, and they show their tool the respect he asks for, and nothing more.

Hartigan is more complex - an old man on massively borrowed time, getting to save the kid twice in one story, and so (subtextually, but you'll forgive me a little license here) redeem himself for thirty years of looking the other way while his colleagues, including his own partner, took the city for whatever they couldn't earn on a cop's paycheck, and for a lifetime of never allowing himself or Eileen a family untainted by the (male) Sin in the City. Nancy isn't just a little girl or a woman, she's a representation of a family that never got started, as well as a (male) child that was spoiled for adulthood every time corruption shat on Hartigan's job. It's no coincidence that he destroys Rourke's groin both times he saves Nancy's life, emasculating and so ending something purely male that lived to spoil innocence. So Hartigan does save her, and himself into the bargain. Fair trade.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
03:15 / 16.04.05
'Angel Heart' came out in the eighties. Had Mickey Rourke. There will be no 'Mickey Rourke was shit in the eighties' talk from this moment on...

Beg your pardon. I meant that Mickey Rourke personally was a waste of space back in the '80s (and early '90s), not as an actor. Hence, you know, the drugs, the alcohol, Wild Orchid, him quitting acting to become a professional boxer, getting his face destroyed, needing plastic surgery to look even remotely normal again, hence why he looks like he's made of wax these days, etc... He's amazing in Sin City, but then he's had a decade's worth of experience in acting through the equivalent of prosthetics...
 
 
This Sunday
18:13 / 16.04.05
"[Y]ou know, the drugs, the alcohol, Wild Orchid, him quitting acting to become a professional boxer, getting his face destroyed, needing plastic surgery to look even remotely normal again," should be included, word for word, in Rourke's resume. Still, I dunno, maybe I have different standards I'm operating on here, but, y'know, the man did his job - really damn well - took his money and fucked off to do other things he found entertaining and worth his time. It's not like he became a serial murderer or spokesman for the American Nazi Patriotic White People's Association or something.
Friend of mine used to be a drunk and a bare-knuckle boxer in his homeland across the seas; should I remind him what a waste of space he was back then? Or is it that being an actor in good movies somehow makes one more worthwhile than someone who's never been in a movie at all?
Why have I been turned into a Mickey Rourke apologist all the sudden? This reactionary insult stuff shouldn't nearly get me riled enough to type something like this out, and yet, here I am and here it is.
Shit. I'm one of those old men sending letters to the local newspaper about morals and society and work ethic, aren't I?
 
 
ibis the being
16:49 / 17.04.05
Saw this last night. I have to say I was worried about the rumors of misogyny, because I didn't want to be offended or to dislike it... turns out all the criticisms of the way the film handles female characters are foolish. It's a bit like getting mad at Bugs Bunny for being pro-hunting. It's irrelevant. Sin City, too, is a cartoon. A black cartoon, sure, but real world rules don't apply just because it's gory. Anyway, obviously I liked it.

On the other hand, the Hartigan/Nancy relationship plays just as desperate, weird, creepy and strangely sweet to me here as it always did in the comics, to the credit of Willis and Jessica Alba both

I was truly startled by how much chemistry there was between these two. They had the most believable and surprisingly erotic kiss I've seen on film since... I don't remember when.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
19:41 / 17.04.05
Daytripper - it's not his alcohol abuse or change of career that made him a waste of space, they were symptoms of the fact that he was a waste of space. He was delusional, thought he could be a championship prizefighter and he got beaten on, badly. He's not the first, but he's one of the sadder examples, simply because he had (and, on the recent evidence, luckily still has) a fantastic talent and a burgeoning artistic life that was rewarding him in all kinds of ways, and nearly threw it away because he was a fuck-up.

More of what you call "reactionary insults"? Please, dude. If you knew half of what you're talking about, you'd as toe-curlingly embarrassed as I am of what you've posted. All of what I've said is taken from interviews with the man over the last few years - anything I know about his life and (thank god, temporary) fall from grace is pretty much straight from the horse's mouth. Maybe while you're looking up the word 'reactionary' in the dictionary, you should try the word 'kneejerk'. I tend to try not to wax judgmental on the basis of prejudiced assumptions these days. Perhaps you could try a little of that too.
 
 
This Sunday
20:59 / 17.04.05
Yeah, I admit, I was just being pissy. Blame it on just finishing up a 'Frank Miller = homophobe' argument for the fiftieth time, right before typing the whiny junk about Mickey Rourke. (Pointless) Frustrations carry over a little too easily, and I should know better than to take flu meds and post, anyway.
 
 
Morpheus
15:14 / 26.04.05
Mickey Rourke still gets some bad ass speed. I was up for days. It was like being back in 1995. Peanut Butter Baby.
Speed...is not for everyone...Blamo-pop!!!
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
15:56 / 30.04.05
Clearly.

Anyway, I started this thread so, now that I've seen the film I think I'll chip in.
First off, did Rodriguez/Miller tell Michael Madsen he was actually being filmed for a theatrical release? The guy sounds like he's helping Bruce Willis to rehearse. Homeboy needs to stick to Free Willy and Species movies.
Minor gripe aside, my general impression was that I loved the film, but one day I may not love it. I have a nagging feeling that one of these days I'll be watching it and I'll end up wondering why I liked it so much. It won't be any time soon, but someday.
It could probably do with a sequel, with one story to explain Dwight's backstory (as in A Dame to Kill for) and then 'Hell and Back' and maybe 'Family Values'. I'd particularly like to see them do the trip scene in Hell and Back.
Overall I give it 493/infinity.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:11 / 30.04.05
I just picked up a DVD of this... I'm trying to hold off watching it until I can see it on the big screen (I figure if it's as good as I'm hoping I'll want to come home and watch it again) but it's difficult...
 
 
yichihyon
06:20 / 03.05.05
Sin City is the evolution of Film Noir! The Dark heroes and villains have become darker in a very Dark age of our times. This is counterpointed with white light or love, romance, and sacrificial love in the film. This yin yang interplay with white and black makes us confront what we should be fighting for in A Dark Age. I think Miller likes to take things to extremes and it is the evolution or extreme exaggeration of the film noir genre. Women are no longer enticing femme fatales, they are killers! Mostly in the genre the femme fatales look for money or they have others kill in order to get money. They use sex or sex appeal to get what they want. This extreme exaggeration of the film noir have women become prostitute killers. Dwight calls Gail a Valkyrie. In pre christian times "the Valkyries carry out the will of Odinn in determining the victors of the battle, and the course of the war. Their primary duty is to choose the bravest of those who have been slain, gathering the souls of dying heros or warriors found deserving of afterlife in Valhalla. They scout the battle ground in search of mortals worthy of the grand hall. If you are deemed by the Valkyries as un-worthy of the hall of Valhalla you will be received after death by the goddess Hel in a cheerless underground world." In Norse pre Christian times women have the power to chose if men go to heaven or hell! This is empowering to females over the male. Miller is attacking christendom but is also maybe a christian himself! Miller does play a priest but is killed! Christians early on were confused as cannibalists because of Christ and the last supper. drink my blood eat my body. The Cardinal and Kevin are indulging in a perversion of the love of Christ. Kevin is happy at the end when the dog eats him because he believes he is Christ, in his demented mind. The white light they see is the sacrificial blood, the spirit, and it fills them with light. It is their perverted belief. Miller is the priest and he knows that this is a perverted belief in our times where men of the cloth are indulging in pedophilia and sex and must be destroyed. I think Miller likes to take things to the next levels and be extreme. In an interview I read he liked the works of Ayn Rand, and her novel the Fountainhead. The character of Howard Roark in the novel is echoed in the villainous Roark characters in Sin City. I think Miller is commenting on free will taken to the extreme and shows the negative side of this in his work of Sin City. Where as Rand is optimistic, Miller is the pessimist. In a world where film noir is taken to the next level, Politics and Religious figures take advantage of their power and commit sexual acts without remorse. Clinton is Yellow Bastard and the Bakers, or any priest who is a pedophile is Cardinal Roark. Where everyone is pretty much the antihero and where men become caricatures of a film noir hero, our heroes have become bad (IE some men of the cloth, some politicians) and the antiheroes have to run wild exacting proper justice. Even the action in the work becomes a little ridiculous because I think Miller is caricaturing the world and shows us that this film noir world is extreme and extreme action must be taken and sometimes this is ridiculous. Miller is showing us the evolution of the film noir and that means, taken to the extreme, being a antihero means to be brutish lug who slap around helpless females. He is showing their evolution of their negative nature right? But the white light is love in this yin yang relationship in film noir, that is worth fighting for. The white light, white silhouettes, and white blood in the film I think represent love and sacrificial love. Kevin and the Cardinal are having communion and it is a sick kind of love but they are indulging in their perversion of love and religion. The opening shot of Josh Harnett and a woman kiss in a white silhouette only after the gunshot does it goes to color. Hartigan in the tar pits where dinosaur models are shown, have a white silhouette scene and says of Miho his rescuer "you are God." The demise of Bruce Willis in his sacrifice ends in a white silhouette and white sacrificial blood. I have to see it again to see if this theory holds up though. Robert Rodriquez said it is the first film to use white silhouettes. Traditional film noirs use black and greys with no absolute whites.
 
 
Jack Fear
11:33 / 03.05.05
What, the "white light" that Kevin and the Cardinal saw when they ate human flesh?

Overanalyzing, I think. SIN CITY isn't really made to stand up under the wright of neo-objectivist interpretations.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:26 / 10.05.05
I think the white silhouettes just look cool, I don't know that they have any deeper symbolic meaning. Dwight is in white silhouette when he comes up from underwater, we could write a lot of english major type stuff about how symbolic that is or we could just say it looks cool.

DVD RELEASE DATE IS SET!!!

>> ComingSoon.net has learned that Robert Rodriguez's and Frank Miller's Sin City hits DVD on August 16. The Dimension Films graphic novel adaptation, featuring an ensemble cast, has earned $72.2 million so far. It was produced for about $40 million.
 
  

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