BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Matrix Reloaded - SPOILERS

 
  

Page: 1234(5)678910... 11

 
 
captain yossarian
10:13 / 22.05.03
the real stuff to become a fan of is animatrix... much more interestic than the whole reloaded-movie...
 
 
captain yossarian
10:17 / 22.05.03
MATRIX RELOADED

Who, as I did, hoped for a great, surprising and amazing sequel to the (alleged) trilogy-start MATRIX will be as disappointed as after biting in some brandnew MacDonalds-theme-week-Burger by MATRIX RELOADED… with not only the trivial taste in mouth but also some hundred fortune-cookie-verses, baken in the story by a semi-literate scriptwriter to confuse his eight-part-literate audience. A very expensive fortune-cookie, indeed: the glorificated special effects of MATRIX RELOADED are really astounding, not to say “disquieting”… if you bring in mind that even the US-military community is (surely not onlyJ pacifistic) interested in these techniques of modern anamorphotic trompe-l´oeil-betrayal to use them in the next future not only to simulate martial strategies but also to manipulate mass-media during the pre-tested wars you´ll realize that the wachowski´s are creating the self-fullfilling oif their own nightmare-vision. Does the Occident need THIS? One more religion doing the opposite of it´s teachings?
Okay... you could find (if you wanted) the aesthetic code of Film Noir in MATRIX, but MATRIX RELOADED contains nothing but Hippie-Commune-kitsch, absolutely unmotivated Matrix-Kung-Fu (what´s the name of this multicopied action-kickbox-thing? “the drunken scriptkiddy”?), us-military-reverend-short-lessons referring to Messianism and a little romance for the shakira-community.
Neo´s cossack suits to the pseudo-gnostic “wisdom” in this movie… lovers of european filmworks will remember the italian “Don Camillo”-movies with their violent priest beating up communists and pagans. Gone with the wind of small change is the strange darkness of part 1, gone also any synoptic string. You wait for the next supie-dupie action-sequence, you wait, you wait, you wait, you wait… meanwhile you get verbally whacked by a Whoopie-Goldberg-Lookalike, postapocalyptic Rastafas, wise chinese masters or a frenchie called “Merovingian”, talkin´ dirty, with quotes like “I aaam deeeplay couhnveenced: Thaire eeese nouh aahcceedaahnt!” .The summarize of all parts: One more Lesson, this time given by the “Architect”, a freemason-caricature, telling us the “truth” (which is, you knew it, a lie…). It is sufficient to walk into the cinema 20 minutes before the closing credits sequence to “understand” the plot of the trilogy. Three climax-points more: first, of course, the multiple agent-clones of the wonderful smith (the most interesting actor in this film), second, the freeway-madness (very nice!) and third, …oh. What was the third… I forgot… but that´s the problem with bad sex…
 
 
diz
13:20 / 22.05.03
I thought the other captain said everyone had been slaughtered?

everyone on those five ships, after Agent Smith set off the EMP too early and left them vulnerable to the squiddies.
 
 
microcitoyen
13:49 / 22.05.03
I asked my brother what he thought of the movie. Without hesitation, he replied "Its just a fucking updated version of Tron."

Ha. Ha. Ha.
 
 
PatrickMM
14:54 / 22.05.03
Also in the credits at the end it says Comic books supplied by DC Comics and used with permission (like they need permission since they own the company). Where were the comics?

It's probably the "Neo's doing his Superman thing" line that caused them to put in that credit.
 
 
videodrome
15:20 / 22.05.03
In the first film Neo lived in Room 101. In the new film they go to floor 101. Any significance in this?

Yes. In the States, university courses at the most elementary level are designated with the number 101.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
15:47 / 22.05.03
Yes, that's all too obvious, as is the fact that the WB take it literally. Thanks for making my point.

I was gonna get all snippy, since I think the line was clever and a nice way to say what is going on while still speaking the language of the Action Film, however I heard it again during Seraph's scene in Enter the Matrix used with NO sense of irony or meaning whatsoever and I think I might have been giving the WBs too much credit.

That said, Enter the Matrix while being mostly shite does feature some of the warmth and witty dialogue that was present in the first film and seems to be missing from the second. That and the Merovingian and Trinity fights are fan-tastic.

I still think people are being too hard on Reloaded, though.
 
 
Chubby P
16:07 / 22.05.03
In the first film Neo lived in Room 101. In the new film they go to floor 101. Any significance in this?

Answering my own question a little bit.

1984 by George Orwell (Chapter 22) - "The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world"

Also in the UK we have a TV show called Room 101 where minor celebs put all the things they hate in the world into it and discuss why. I had always wondered what the source of Room 101 was.
 
 
louisemichel
16:15 / 22.05.03
Just my 2 eurocents.
What amazes me is the number of people who do not understand the movie. Not the profound sense, but just the informations.
e.g.
No, Zion is not destroyed, it was just the ships,
No, Neo didn't take the Source door, he took the other one,
and so on...

Now, as what i think of Matrix Reloaded : I thinks it's Matrix More.
First one had lots of talks, Matrix Reloaded has more.
First one had lots of fights, Matrix Reloaded has more.
First one challenged the mind, Matrix Reloaded challenges it more (you don't agree with this one ? please, tell me what happens in the next one, I'll be glad.)
First one had rythm flaws, Matrix Reloaded has more.

Actually, I liked it, it's just what I expected. Maybe more...
 
 
Hieronymus
16:54 / 22.05.03
I knew the minute they flew into Zion and that door-guarding mech suit turned and gunslinger-swung his giant pistols like a Mechwarrior John Wayne, that this movie was going to be Phantom Menace quality. And it was. Twice now I've seen it and it barely gets tolerable the second time. Barely.

Token (and badly performed kung-fu) that was like so much anaethesia after a while (Is it just me or did it look like Keanu, bless his heart, was trying so hard to make it look good and failed so miserably). Lukewarm dialogue ("I love you too damn much" +cue cheesy regurgitation of the first movie's ending+ "I guess this makes us even"). Link as token 'comedy relief'. CGI so blatant and cartoony I was waiting for dropping anvils and ACME holes. Stiff characterizations and plot voids you can drive a Buick through. I'm pissed. I'm completely pissed off. They had all this money and THIS is what they wheeled out? Fuckers.

Credit where credit is due. Some great ideas. Love the sixth incarnation of the Man/Machine messiah. But the presentation, bar none, was absolutely four course shit. If insulting one's intelligence is 'challenging the mind', louise, then paint me proper challenged.

The Cakegasm, folks. The fucking Cakegasm!

Christ.
 
 
videodrome
17:03 / 22.05.03
What amazes me is the number of people who do not understand the movie. Not the profound sense, but just the informations.

A lot of this has to do with the fact that the last 20 minutes of the film are so artlessly edited as to obscure meaning and even basic plot mechanics.

It's another example of Budget Disease, as it appears the WB became preoccupied with cramming everything in because they could, only to realize that they were running out of time.

But hey, they spent an amount equal to the first film's budget on the car chase, so they couldn't cut that, right?
 
 
grim reader
17:04 / 22.05.03
When the film finished, i couldn't help but think "What a load of miserable bastards the Barbelith lot are." I came to this film having read all the reviews in this list, and had braced myself for lots of long, dragging action sequences, and was on the look out for lots of interesting philosophical stuff within dialogue which was clumsy. However, I thought the film was awesome, thought it flowed way better than the last one. I didn't find the dialogue too stilted or heavy handed, but in the odd spot where it was, it just added to the whole matrix mix. 'I love you too damn much!' - i love it! More corny dialogue, I say. And how class is it that the virtual people are more interesting than the 'real' ones?- Who are just a band of dreadlocked trendie hippies, anyway. My God, Zion looked like a futuristic version of 'The Beach' with Leonardo DiCaprio. I was hoping the free minds of humanity were more fun than a trance night; ironic that this turns out to be the safety valve for rebellion in the matrix; it's where all those dreadlocked white folk go who get into rebellion 'n' anarchy 'n' stuff, and go in for the lifestyle activism/rebellion aesthetic. If I were to go to Zion, reputed home of the free minds of humanity, I'd be looking out for the laid back people smoking weed, scribbling comics and trying to get away from damned dreadlocked trendy hippies. It was far too Jesmond for my liking. I was also wondering why the artists in Zion didn't take advantage of the technology we saw they possess for docking procedures and stuff (not the actual docking technology, but the visual technology, the user interface, the screens and stuff in the control room). Maybe their just too goddamned hippie.

I loved the action sequences; pure porn, I agree. Better than the new X-Men film by far; the whole thing 'reads' like a computer game, which is the point, I think. The audience with me were miserable, as per usual (it is very dissapproved of to actually enjoy a film, people are so anal about the 'perfect film experience', everyone sitting straight back, fingers on lips). It has given me plenty of mental fodder, which i will no doubt blog. (BlatentBlogPlug(TM): www.survivallog.blogspot.com )

This is the best film I've seen for about a year (the last most memorable one was 'Being John Malkovitch', and before that 'Fight Club'). The fact that I could endure such a long film without checking for the time before the end is amazing for me, and very rare. It's either miserable arty farty wank at the Tyneside Cinema, or pure Hollywood Crap at the new godplex Odeon cinema these days. Thank god a film has come along I actually LIKE, which is perfectly honest about being total porn, total fantasy, lifting me out of the real world in a way which was still intelligent, unlike crap like X-Men II which pretends to be 'politically relevant', what with that final presidential scene. How anyone would write that scene is beyond me, but what makes it worse is that these people should be vaguely comics literate. The Authority did a similar scene, executing the president by sending him to Iraq for a lynching; after a statement like that, the X-men scene can only make them look like pussies. (I can't believe that bald man once argued Starfleet policy with Klingons, he's keeping such wimpy company these days).

Anyway, I should explain I've had my beautiful long locks of hair chopped off today, hence the Cartmanesque outbursts about hippies. I hope i only offended those of you who live up your own bottoms.
 
 
videodrome
17:11 / 22.05.03
It's either miserable arty farty wank at the Tyneside Cinema, or pure Hollywood Crap at the new godplex Odeon cinema these days.

And that's the beauty of The Matrix Reloaded. It provides both in one easy package. No muss, no fuss.
 
 
louisemichel
17:24 / 22.05.03
hello again.
First of all, no plotholes that I and other writers by trade can see in Matrix Reloaded. Maybe there are, maybe you saw some, but remember, you may be wrong. And the writers I know see no plot holes. (doesn't prove a thing, ok)Lots of questions, though...
Second, derivative, please, tell me you didn't ask yourself what was going to happen in the next movie. Because if you did, it was challenging. point. If you ask yourself a question, it's challenging.
Sorry.
So easy to bash a movie, especially when you do not understand it. And the editing is not in cause, some of us understood it. (derivative, you're not the target of the last sentences...)
 
 
grim reader
17:25 / 22.05.03
Me: It's either miserable arty farty wank at the Tyneside Cinema, or pure Hollywood Crap at the new godplex Odeon cinema these days.

videodrome: And that's the beauty of The Matrix Reloaded. It provides both in one easy package. No muss, no fuss.

Yes, the Best of Both Worlds (Locutus would have loved it). It ditched the inbuilt miserable factor of the arty wank, while cranking up the feel-good vibe of Hollywood.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
17:42 / 22.05.03
That's strange, louisemichael. Some of us - a stack of us, in fact, are writers by trade. Or have actually worked in the film industry. And therefore have a pretty good handle on the mechanics of film and narrative.

In this case, you'll probably find that these people find it's easy to bash a movie because the production values, execution and some aspects of the storyline were completely fuckawful.
 
 
grim reader
17:49 / 22.05.03
In this case, you'll probably find that these people find it's easy to bash a movie because the production values, execution and some aspects of the storyline were completely fuckawful.

It would be nice to at least try to enjoy the film, however.
 
 
videodrome
17:50 / 22.05.03
No, louisemichel has a point. Two-thirds of the way through Reloaded I asked myself, "Why the fuck am I still watching this?"

Does that count?
 
 
cusm
17:52 / 22.05.03
And now, a rebuttal from Laurence Fishburne:



And I liked the mecha suit, but that's just a personal fetish of mine.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
17:57 / 22.05.03
It would be nice to at least try to enjoy the film, however.
Yeah, because presumably I went along on opening night, after battling to get tickets to watch the first film, followed by the second because I was planning on making sure that I wouldn't enjoy it.

Come the fuck on. There's only so much slack I can cut. And Keanu used it all up.
 
 
grim reader
18:44 / 22.05.03
The Return Of Rothkoid saith: Yeah, because presumably I went along on opening night, after battling to get tickets to watch the first film, followed by the second because I was planning on making sure that I wouldn't enjoy it.

Come the fuck on. There's only so much slack I can cut. And Keanu used it all up.


Wow, guess maybe you take this far more seriously than I. I guess I'm just the random kid who got turned on to cheerful happenings who Neo couldn't stand so much and that others here found just, y'know, just so irritating. I kinda dug the different fictionsuits, i wasn't expecting any revelations, and the early scenes in Zion seemed like a warning to me; 'these people are trendy nutters, they are the lords of pretentious wank' (we have a word for it here, in this backwater headspaces i frequent; 'Platt', we call it.) At the end of the day, it was just another screen with people walking about and saying silly things and performing preposterous stunts; perhaps you didn't notice (or just decided you weren't entertained by) the whole irony of the scene where it was just screens and banks of screens with Neo on, just screens and Neo, screens and Neo...that scene alone could be taken on so many levels; I was kind of thinking 'watching the screen?' or 'watching the man on the screen?' or 'watching the screen within the screen?'...were we meant to be watching the screen? the man on the screen? The man who was in front of the screens?...but who was still on the screen...as was the man who wasn't on the screens! I think perhaps you suffer from having deified the screen too much, somewhere down the line. There were enough visual props and puppeteering to keep me entertained for hours, and it did, and there was plenty of thought-fodder, too. What were you expecting? It's only a fucking screen.
 
 
Ellis says:
19:21 / 22.05.03
I went to see it earlier, and I really wanted to like it, but I just found it boring for the most part. All the action scenes felt unnecessary, and overlong, and too... clean.

There were some interesting parts to the film, but they weren't fleshed out enough- the twins for example as well as the idea that there are vampires and werewolves in the Matrix (Persephone killing one of them with a silver bullet was a nice touch). I also liked the idea that perhaps Persephone and M. were earlier versions of Neo and Trinity (thats the only reason I can think of for why Persephone wanted to kiss Neo).

The nicest idea though was that they are in a video game, or a preset programme and the Oracle, Keymaker and Architect are all there to usher Neo along like signposts towards his goal, and i hope that this is dealt with in some capacity in the next movie, because none of the revelations in this film made Neo raise his eyebrows and say "Whoa..." which you think he would have done after finding out he is Neo 6.

The first hour was really boring, the digital vagina thing was stupid and crap, and I wish there had been a longer scene with Neo, Morpheus and Trinity after Neo's meeting with the Architect, the film did have some really good ideas in, but they seemed swallowed up by ten to twenty minute action scenes which weren't exciting and had some really poor special effects.

On the whole it wasn't a bad film, the WB's just wanted to accomplish more than perhaps they knew how to and couldn't balance the action and the exposition scenes very well, so just made each as long (and as a consequence, uninteresting) as possible.

And when leaving the cinema, the people behind me were talking about how smart the film was and that they had never thought of some of the ideas which were expressed in the film.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
20:47 / 22.05.03
dizfactor:
everyone on those five ships, after Agent Smith set off the EMP too early and left them vulnerable to the squiddies.

Ah. That makes more sense.

microcitoyen:
I asked my brother what he thought of the movie. Without hesitation, he replied "Its just a fucking updated version of Tron."

Tron was way better.
 
 
houdini
21:45 / 22.05.03

Orwell's '1984' is indeed the origin of Room 101. All subsequent references (such as the TV show - good grief, it's crap) are to that book.

Note that Alan Moore puts a Room 101 reference into 'V For Vendetta' by having "V" be imprisoned in room 5.

'V' = 5 = 101 in binary code....
 
 
straylight
23:00 / 22.05.03
Rothkoid, I was going to say that about Videodrome, but you beat me to it.

Did no one else think Seraph's name was Serif? Like fonts? Maybe that was just me trying to be beat over the head with things a little less.
 
 
grim reader
02:11 / 23.05.03
Apparently it was in Room 101 that Orwell used to censor Indian news for the BBC.
 
 
Hieronymus
03:06 / 23.05.03
Second, derivative, please, tell me you didn't ask yourself what was going to happen in the next movie. Because if you did, it was challenging. point. If you ask yourself a question, it's challenging.

louise, lots of folks still adore George Lucas even after he's torn his own tale to tatters and that's their prerogative. But this kneejerk dismissal of someone who didn't like it, by deciding they just didn't get it, does not hold water.

I got it. Again. And again. And again. There's no way I could NOT have gotten it, given that they hammered it home with nearly every. other. fucking. line. Choice, choice, choice, choice. And all that that entails. I get it already. Sheesh.

There was no humanity at all this time. Trinity was stiff, with no range beyond Loyal Girlfriend. Morpheus is a caricature of who he was in the first one and Neo is the worst kind of superhero. Just a guy with a lot of powers that we know nothing about and have absolutely no emotional investment in. Whoop de doo. Even Clark Kent has a human, heartfelt past you can sink your teeth into. When the hero's a god, and there's no kryptonite in sight to humble him, he gets real boring REAL fast.

As for how 'challenging' it was, it doesn't matter what question it poses, if it doesn't pose those questions well enough to interest me in the third film. It's purely car crash value from here on in, for me, just like Phantom Menace made clear to me. And I was a consumate fan of the first Matrix, baby. Was gonna name my first born Neo and everything.

As I stated earlier, it had a small handful of really good ideas (the safety valve feature of chaos or 'the anomaly' vs. the machine imposed order was beautiful. Nothing like Rebellion®. That and the Greek tragedy that is Zion being rebooted, time and time again. The brotherly connection between Neo and Smith. Neo's further messianic control of the machines in the Real World). And that's what angers me the most. They're really fucking good ideas, man. But when your presentation on them sucks, you've pretty much crippled your message before it's even finished itself. And Reloaded suffered from this.

In the final sum, all the good ideas in the world aren't enough to save this thing from being too far up its own ass. And you have no idea how much I hate seeing that, louise.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:10 / 23.05.03
I didn't think much of it. From a writing point of view, I thought it was weakly constructed and weirdly unimaginative. A lot of exposition, and little exploration. The movie's over two hours, and you could cut twenty minutes out of it and scarcely notice.

Having just watched the 'Once Upon a Time in China' trilogy, I'm amazed by how derivative the action sequences are - the first film established a new way of doing the fights, drawing on the material from classic martial arts movies. This movie, on the other hand, replicates these movies and ditches the new stuff. Weird.

I thought the film had Middle Act Syndrome in a big way - there's not a whole lot you can do in the second act of a three-part structure in terms of resolution. 'Empire Strikes Back' gets over this with 'I Am Your Father' - and here we have the Architect telling Neo it's all a game, but that was the revelation at the beginning of the first film; it doesn't work again as a standalone. If Revolutions is stunning - and it might be - it will be because Reloaded is exposition-heavy, and there's plenty to do, explore, and fight for in part III. The question, in truth, is whether the Wachowskis reached the limits of their imaginations in the original movie. Looking at the trailer at the end of Reloaded, I'm cautious.

We'll see.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:33 / 23.05.03
Well, as far as I'm concerned the action/fighting was stunning. I mean, you lot went to see this gorgeous, lovely, visual feast of a movie (with, admittedly, much shit plot and acting) and all you can do is moan. Oh, whatever.....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:38 / 23.05.03
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, because if you did not react to it in the same way that I did, there is something *wrong* with you. My incomprehehnsion is replaced by disappointment. Disappointment with *you*. One day you may be clever like me, but to be honest I'm not keeping my fingers crossed.

Furthermore, if you did not enjoy it, this is also because you clearly take things way too seriously. I don't take things seriously. Thus, anyone who is disagreeing with me is clearly a bit emotionally unstable and foolishly overinversted.

Meanwhile, you clearly just didn't get it.

You know, if I ever see the film it's not going to be half as entertaining as this thread.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
10:17 / 23.05.03
Rest assured, this thread is considerably more entertaining than the fairly prosaic film whereupon it focuses.

Oh look, more of the same. That was good, let's do it again with a different shaped pointy sticks. Let's fire off more thousands of bullets that fail to achieve their target. Plus an endless car chase. And give it some gravitas by inserting koans we found in some Christmas crackers.

Liked the Merovingian and his Belle Dame Sans Merci though. And really liked the sunglasses and Keanu's clerical coat. Liked Keanu full stop. He was born for roles where he just has to avoid smiling and wave his limbs around in slomo.
 
 
grim reader
10:30 / 23.05.03
You forgot 'maybe you're just miserable'
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:51 / 23.05.03
See under "there's something wrong with you".
 
 
The Natural Way
11:37 / 23.05.03
Again: whatever. It had no heart, but it looked pretty. Very pretty. There is something wrong with you. Very wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I win. No returns.
 
 
videodrome
12:55 / 23.05.03
Bobby...have you tried not being an aesthetic curmudgeon?
 
  

Page: 1234(5)678910... 11

 
  
Add Your Reply