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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Matrix Reloaded - SPOILERS

  
  

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Matthew Fluxington
12:53 / 30.05.03
Calvin, I don't believe that one necessarily would need to be educated about philosophy or theory to come to the basic ideas of the Matrix movies. I do believe that anyone with even the slightest bit of imagination, curiosity, and introspection could arrive at those ideas all by themselves.
 
 
grim reader
14:10 / 30.05.03
Hi Flux, I agree entirely; got a little off-topic on that class/education post, and can't remember exactly what i said, but i hope i never said anything that contradicts what you say above. I think imagination is everything, and that education at best will provide a space for imagination to thrive in, and at worst will stunt imagination irreperably. The Matrix, i think, provides so much space for people's own imagination to play freely; what I've always loved about things like DC universe, Star Trek, etc, is that it shows you only part of the whole world, leaving the imagination to furnish the rest. After seeing The Matrix Reloaded a second time, my friends and I were inspired to do something we've been talking about a while, and set up the fictionverse.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:23 / 30.05.03
can you reccomend me some films with better action sequences, because just in terms of fights, I think it would be pretty tough to top Reloaded.

FIST OF LEGEND!!!

Same Fight Director plus some real martial artists....

good story too...
 
 
cusm
20:45 / 30.05.03
My current pet theory: The Archetect was the last "The One."
 
 
Never or Now!
22:21 / 30.05.03
I liked the way that Zion turns out to be an essentially fascist, miltiaristic state, whilst the machines conversely have their own rebels.

I'm betting that the victory over the machines happens relatively early in the next film, and the batttle for the real world follows. And then they have "The Matrix" as a game, while they're rebuilding.
 
 
grim reader
00:18 / 31.05.03
Did anyone just see the animatrix cartoon that was on channel 5 tonight? Excellent stuff, amazing visuals, as good as reading a comic. Some interesting twists on the Matrix backstory, but the most amazing thing was the visuals. The robot riots were like seeing my old Judge Dredd collection animated, and the beginning bit where they were all marching to work in file was like the workers of London in Eliot's The Waste Land. Excellent stuff.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
04:34 / 31.05.03
Flux, you keep saying that, but I don't think you realize what an egotistical prick that makes you out to be. I mean, sure, the movie was not in any way shape or form the greatest thing since sliced bread, but to constantly mock those who did think it was thought-provoking makes you look like nothing but an ass.

When did it become cool on here to do nothing but snidely sit around and insult other people's intelligence? There was a point when this board was a place where ideas could be freely exchanged without a twat with a stick up hir ass mocking them.

Do you have anything to add to the conversation except "If you thought the ideas in this movie were cool then you're obviously not as cool as me"?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:44 / 31.05.03
So, Flux is a wanker and, as ever, Barbelith is dying.

And.....what did you think of the movie, Kevin?
 
 
bjacques
10:20 / 31.05.03
Cheez, tough audience! I liked the movie enough not to begrudge the e9,50 (Jesus wept!) or the 2.5 hours I spent at the Pathe' theater. It was fun and I'm having friends over tomorrow to watch a copy. This is long, so if you want to go out and have a coffee and a crap I won't mind.

Ok, first the things that bothered me.

* The CGI fight and chase scenes were good at first, but after awhile you realize it's like watching expensive Tom and Jerry cartoons. If anything, videogame generation audiences ought to be *more* demanding, being jaded and all. I don't play much, but I have a fair idea what the state of the art is. It seems like the better the CGI, the more fakey it looks, like trying to reach absolute zero tremendous effort for incremental improvement. Gimme grit, blood and meaty smacks. The Matrix is real to those who live in it, and that's supposed to include us.

* Now that the movie starts to get deeper, the acting should have as well, though how actors can register metaphysics, I'm not sure. Morpheus is just starting to deal with having his entire belief system cratered. Neo's taking it all rather well, and I guess Trinity is just in it for the laughs, the drag and the guns. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Basically these characters are vehicles for heavy themes--kid stuff for Barbelithers, but heavy lifting for general audiences. Virtuality and videogame narrative may apply a bit, but I'm not a virtual videogame character (...) so I want characters who laugh, cry and hurt. Having Trinity actually take a bullet is a shock, and it really shouldn't be, because she's not that engaging a character. I miss Guido the Killer Pimp from the first movie. And, yeah, the women in the movie are cardboard cutouts.

* Ok, this movie needs lots of exposition, advancing themes from the first movie and setting them up for the third, but we're given huge chunks in between the action scenes, which is well and good, but the transitions are jarring.

* French-bashing made me uncomfortable in the current context, regardless of the Supercontext. I'm not French. The guy, in front of his wife, doses a random woman with magic Spanish fly just to prove a point, and probably sells anthrax cluster candy to kids, and chose to be French. I suppose the movie was written before the US started badmouthing France for helping us in Afghanistan but not Iraq, but still... Maybe it's just the myths that were available. Ok, Hades & Persephone, rulers of the underworld, right, but also the Merovingian king of the living world. The Priory of Sion people are as rightwing as you can get, monarchists who claim Divine Right by virtue of carrying the holiest DNA in Christendom (I like Preacher's take on that...). They're the opposite of liberating. Besides, Neo's success means the end of M's cozy setup that's a much better deal than G the KP got in the first movie. Maybe also the underworld thing is to further hammer home the baseness of the Matrix world. I think the Merovingian works too hard as a metaphor and not enough as a character. He's so "Old Europe" he's a cartoon. He looked like Jean-Claude Van Damme gone to seed.

* The Architect looked like producer Saul Zaentz, so next time I watch the movie I'll be stuck with "Zantz Can't Dance."

* Since a lot of the Zionists came from the Matrix, might not some of them be nostalgic for, say, trash culture, games of MAFIA, etc. and reproduce them as resources permit? Maybe make Mille Bornes cards from cardboard scraps, e.g.? What I'm getting at is how about a few more creature comforts or at least personal geegaws? Lock's office on the other hand, is sumptuous in its H.R.Giger-ness. An iron-bound and riveted book on the desk?
 
 
bjacques
11:02 / 31.05.03
Stuff I liked:

* Someone else pointed this out, sorta, but I can't remember who. The third movie will be the union of opposites--Smith/Neo, humans/machines, Matrix/Zion--to synthesize something higher than either one. Either alone is a deadend, and the figures representing them are ultimately destructive.

--The Matrix works pretty much like this one; great if you're middle class, white and a guy. Most of the movie's fans are, even if they don't feel especially privileged, so we take its baseness as read. Apollonian, white collar.

--Zion is what you find when you free yourself from the Matrix, but there's got to be more to life than super kung-fu, uzi pistols and raves (weeeeellll...). Beyond that it's a big tribe living in caves and under constant threat. Dionysian, hippies.

--Smith is a cop removed from the cop context, and unhappy about that. But he's got super powers that came from Neo, not just an upgrade. He can replicate himself by converting other programs or Matrix inhabitants into a Smith (note generic name), even download into a character in the "real" Zion (Bane, right?). But he's reproducing out of control. His final victory is a world entirely of Smiths, total sameness. Dead.

--Neo is a superhero and his powers now extend into the "real" world. He can stop the Sentinels. But superheroes are getting violent, like Trinity, and if they win, Zion is a tribe ruled by superheroes out of control. That path represents chaos, and not the fun kind. They're promoting peace, luv and trance through superior firepower. They'll wreck the world. Maybe the wooden acting and cheesy dialogue are to emphasize that the Zionists aren't perfect either. Yep.

So the only way forward is to somehow unite the two, a sort of chemical wedding thingy.

That takes the "wrong" choice, a step into the unknown, because going back to save humanity is the "safe" choice. I think the Architect is ambivalent. He knows it's necessary, but it also means his own extinction, so maybe that's why he mixes lies with truth. Or maybe he lied to Neo about destroying humanity because that risk is real and Neo must know it before he makes his choice. I think the Merovingian was offered a lesser choice.

* the groupie kid drops the huge hint of the spoon (as in there is no...), but in the "real" Zion.

* I hope the third movie doesn't have Ewoks in it.

This stuff is a lot like Morrison was doing with the Invisibles. It's not necessarily beyond "Middle America," but people who haven't been wallowing in this stuff for years will have to work harder for it, that's all.

Gotta run.
 
 
Hieronymus
14:27 / 31.05.03
Erik Davis has a nifty little article that plugs into calvin's 'workers unite & free your mind' argument.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:04 / 31.05.03
Please, Kevin, let's not get our feelings too hurt by the fact that some people really didn't like this movie, alright? This isn't about a coolness contest, or about insulting anyone's intelligence. If you value a board in which the "ideas (can be) freely exchanged," you're going to have to deal with the fact that a lot of us didn't like the film for some very good reasons, and accept the possibility that there are perhaps a lot of thoughtful, interesting things to be said about WHY the film can be considered a failure. Certainly from my point of view, the failures of the film are far more interesting, complicated, and thought-provoking than any of the points the Matrix films are trying to express.

For example, the shift from the tradition of telling stories in which violence is a visceral, scary thing to a CGI video game world of violence as modern dance is very fascinating to me, but also very disturbing and unfortunate. Feeling disconnected from images of violence is nothing new, but this seems like that detachment from the reality of violence is taken to nth degree, which I believe is a very damaging thing for people.

Would you care to comment on a subject like this, or would you prefer to either whine about your hurt feelings or talk about how coooooool Neo is when he flies around in his trenchcoat?
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
17:20 / 31.05.03
Flux, I don't care that some people didn't like the movie, I'm just irritated by continuing comments like "I do believe that anyone with even the slightest bit of imagination, curiosity, and introspection could arrive at those ideas all by themselves". I find that and your other comments of that type to be horribly demeaning to those that did take something of value out of the film.

There ARE a lot of thoughtful and good reasons why the movie could be considered a failure. You're absolutely right. I just don't see how the flaws of the film make people who never sat down and thought about things like structured revolution as a system of control, stupid or slow.

I mean, from a film making point of view alone, there are pacing issues out the wazoo, and the last 30-20 minutes are very poorly edited.

The issues of violence and its complete lack of conciquences are very good ones. The fact that violence had far less impact in this one than the first is really interesting. And while I can see how the "X-Box" approach to cinematic violence is entertaining, it's also far less effective a device than the far more viceral combat in the first film. Compare the Smith vs. Morpheus fight from the first one to the "Burly Brawl" from the second and tell me which one you think has more impact.

That's not even going into the moral aspects of the issue and how the movie seems to sublimate real issues of control and manufacturing concent into fetish gunporn and "blowin' everyone up".

I find the idea of 'The One' in a film that supposedly is talking about human potential in any serious manner to be very annoying as well. Unless the idea of 'the One' turns out to be another system of control to stop others from even trying to reach their full potential in the 3rd film, I'm going to be very disapointed.

It's not a perfect film by any means. I'm witholding a lot of my thoughts on the concepts presented until the 3rd movie since Reloaded dosen't stand alone in any sense of the imagination (which in and of itself could be seen as a weakness of the film).

I'm just worried that the movies are going to be just what Zion in the film is: a pre-packaged "rebellion attitude" that acts as a safety valve for people who might in other circumstances do something constructive... The idea of the sexy anarchist rebranded and absorbed into the Spectacle to be sold back to people in the place of real examination of systems of control and the like.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
17:42 / 31.05.03
Haus, yeah the board has been dying since the Nexus first went online. We all know this. I've just been getting exasperated at things lately.

I think that the movie was... interesting. Taken in a completely basic action movie, popcorn and explosions state of mind, it does deliver the goods, as it were. Unfortunatly while it is very much "The Matrix, only More!" it still dosn't manage to capture the same intensity that the first one had. There was an intensity and raw yet polished feeling to the first movie that this one fails to capture.

Taken for the ideas... I'm torn. On the one hand I was shocked to see themes of control and manufacturing concent in a blockbuster action movie like this one. These are really important themes that need to be explored, especially in American culture these days. On the other hand, the end result of these discussions is probably going to be some sort of pseudo-mystical bollocks about the One and True Love and what have you.

And I loved the Architect conversation, although part of that is that it reminded me a lot of the "auto-critique" scene in the Invisibles which remians one of my favourite scenes. If and that's a big if, the commentary in that scene is really a knowing deconstruction of action movie tropes and the Matrix in particular, then it would boost my opinion of the film immeasurably. Sadly, after my 2nd viewing, I get the feeling that it is all being presented to be taken at face value. I get much the same feeling about the "You don't truly know someone until you fight them" line, which was my favourite line as it is dripping with P.K.D. resonance and the like.

When all is said and done, I liked it. Mostly for brainless stuff and the moments of pure superhero action. The fight scenes were beautiful but souless and the philosophy hinges on the resolution of the film too much for me to judge at the moment.

*geek* It sure as hell wasn't X2. */geek*
 
 
Simplist
05:11 / 01.06.03
For people who actually liked the film, a number of excellent weblogs have sprung up featuring more the type of discussion I was hoping for here on Barbelith:
Matrix Essays
Matrix Theories
hackthematrix
 
 
moriarty
05:20 / 01.06.03
I just started work at a video store, and they can't keep Equilibrium on the shelf. It was very underordered. No one saw it coming. I think people are in need of more Matrix-style action, and are grasping at anything that comes along.

It's funny. I hadn't read this thread yet, but I was just thinking earlier today that the fight scenes seemed very detached. The compostition, the timing, it all seems off. Not even in comparison to other movies, but off in comparison to the original Matrix, so this "it was meant to look like that" excuse doesn't really fly. There was no "oomph". I've got to admit, though, that I can't imagine many things being harder to stage, and know that you'll come up with gold, than an action scene.
 
 
Thjatsi
18:08 / 01.06.03
I thought Equilibrium wasn't supposed to come out until August. Was it released earlier in the UK?
 
 
Seth
18:35 / 01.06.03
The current game here in reflect's head is finding established Star Trek precedents for all the concepts in the Matrix. The managed revolution thing is the only one I'm stuck on: the closest I can come up with is the Cardassian engineered coup in the opening three episodes of Season 2 of DS9. Anyone wanna join in?
 
 
ReformedRobotMan
19:09 / 01.06.03
Louise Michel
You are very much correct this one tells More… I like the way it goes but if you are sleeping then you will not get the movie, very simple.

Catjerome;

“For a while there I felt as though I were watching The Two Towers”
Lets walk to Chess game/s and the Towers…I myself do not play chess but I would look at chess…anyone knows chessgames.com?
“The Merovingian's”

Lets add this story..and walk to the holy grail and the lord of the rings and then stroll over to the Mists of Avelon…
“Except for maybe the Oracle, there's ... Trinity? Neo's”
What if the Matrix ..was the beginning of the beginning of the awakening of all including the so called One remember all sorts of groups are waiting for their messiah and even preparing already like the Hopi etc What if the Matrix reloaded is the beginning of showing us encrypted some spiritual state that we are in, Look at the weather and tell its not like real bad around the world, look at the wars violence poverty Bush IMF N.O.W group Royals then look at the universe so much is happening up there, the planets travelling, the sun having Rings around her and Flares coming from her, the animals are travelling leaving or settling.. unexplainable things are happening up and below, it is clear that something is happening including the aliens coming to get us or our leaders, becoming more real than fantasy.

What if we would have indeed prophecies that are well hidden over what is really happening right now, the ALL which is earth planets universe electricity energy ether density.. All is changing.

by Mitch Battros (ECTV

“I was taken back so quickly when I received an urgent alert a series of X-Class flares had just been discharged from the Sun, that I really did not take the time to research the cause. Thanks to a loyal ECTV subscriber named Robert Cain from North Carolina, I was reminded of the two comets that hit or came close to the Sun prior the X-Class flares.
Earth Changes TV was the first news agency to report of the two comets caught on the SOHO satellite crashing into the Sun. I filed the report on May 25th. Comet Article:.
At this time, I have no other data to account for this very unusual series of flares. Unless I receive new information, I am convinced it was the passing of the two comets which was the cause.”

What if this is the end of times where all starts to collide become one again connecting to earth again? What if the Matrix Reloaded is a reflection of what is really happening, what if the movie tries to tell? Haven’t you noticed how its full of symbols? FULL of them. And it connects to the times of prophecies most cuts contain messages if you know some about religion and conspiracy and predictions and follow the weather patern planets etc, its all one game, web/program or reality.. no one ever thought to be living in a Program one selves? Never looked at our reality as if we are being fooled by Them, who control the Matrix?

I guess not because if you would realise that you yourselves are the one’s believing in myth states… we are living in a Matrix people…we are being bombarded with Satellite waves and beams etc we are being monitored every step we make..rules and regulations taking everything away from the common men police brutality everywhere.. demonstrations everywhere, riots and then more police and restrictions the doubling of cost of everything.. hello the world is right in the middle of the Movie called End of Times, which means the ending of time as we know it, for the system we all live in is about to undergo massive changes, for everybody, and some will suffer.

Now think new age madness the hippies and what have you.. think the prophecy of when the veil shall be lifted.. we all shall see in what sort of world we live, you guys read comics why do you not recognise the colliding of minds in the Ether, which many artist still do not understand, artist Creates and when one Creates one oozes out much energy in the ether, and then we talk about the Cause and Effect, one idea is born and the artist start to CREATE, and his energy that will travel as long as he is working towards 7 other ones and back in time towards 7 others, example; you will be able to find out that in the artist inventor musician painter writers etc = Creator the person comes from a line of ..well you know the rest.

The Film tries to teach people something which is very important.. Cause and Effect, non without the other, meaning everything you do Has Consequences.. in this way one is to say, that You do matter as a human being because you are part of the CHAIN..the Chain of LIFE FORCE…by the Law of Frequency one can say that everything we do/Cause has an Effect, we not only shape our future but we also reshape our past, so in order to understand the Future we must understand the past.. Matrix Reloaded is giving us a future and present at the same which all lays encoded in the past, but one must understand some, be aware enough, to see what the system is we all live in these so called Free countries also known as the western worlds or open prison camps, our prison the laws and regulations, the must do and dont’s, no free travelling of the world for its peoples, but Only for its Keepers.. we are slaves, only most are not ready yet to understand in what way, happy slaves…thinking to be free peoples, Not.

The Movie is showing something very , very Basic, as what the solution could possibly be to solving worlds problems in a heartbeat…

The Womb is the First Matrix, the seed is the Matter… now re-think again what you have seen in this movie..

See the Womb is an Entity which lives within each creating being, no matter what substance the womb is first, the earth is the Womb of the Universe, if she dies we die, so we must change our ways, right? but what if we put here on earth would not change our ways, would our creators let us Destroy the womb of the Universe? NEVER, if the earth dies, this Universe we are in dies…and science seems keen on destroying the Universe.., So here we have predictions, then again look at what the Matrix Reloaded is all about.. its about A prophecy which can go either way, which is the current state of the planet, we wake up and we change our ways in time, stop violence wars pains horrors inflicted on others , stop that little spiral chain of the Cause and Effect law, and we will have little natural disasters But if we do not and we continue, the earth has together with those who came from up, some deal but if they do nothing the earth will have to explode, sort of a great Bang so she can restart again…for after all she is the womb and in the end it’s the Womb that Decides. Especially the one from which all life came..the Universum….

Look at religion and their stories about females, not much and the little state’s.. female is filthy, dumb, not worthy, has to obey, and oh my god the devil is upon her when she has her period.. its all about this great conspiracy seed against the egg…A females is the carrier of the sacred womb, for from her all life comes forth…in other words the womb is closest to He that creates as above so below meaning one could say that the god on earth would have to be the Womb..again look at all the Womb symbols in the Matrix Reloaded…look at the scene where Neo and Trinity make Love..look at the Egg shape or better said the Womb reality..and look at what happens with the people who celebrate as if in trance happy while the two make love in the Womb atmosphere ..I say here lays a message hidden..

Now find the answers to many prophecies and searches for certain holy things, Like what is the holy grail for real? and viola you have the message, its merely stating at which part of prophecy we are… why do I say the holy grail? For there is something about this movie and the Holy Grail I can feel it…I think the holy grail is a human and not a thing, this thing they call the holy grail is a lie..it about something else, and I think its human as if in a certain bloodline or type or something like that, the One who carries the re-incarnated blood of the first One..and it has to do with Alpha and Omega…the beginning which is also their beginning will be their ending kind of thing..as it ones began so shall it end… so if all started ones with those who came from heaven, and this was the beginning of our stories like the one the bible tells us, which in a way could be seen as first there was the word and then came the law, then this means that we must be at the cross road of the world turning alien on us…this would be the Revolution story..those who once came from the heavens returning again…

But if you are not awake then you will think I am full of it. pity, but so be it..time has a way of showing who’s reality is the One.. in the end its safe to say that we have been had, the gods have been playing Chess games with us, for the Matrix started out as a Chess game, Babylon, Iraq..

So how does one call this program? The Games Gods Play, and most of us are nothing but pons.

Never forget why do we say there is more than meets the eye? Because many have seen things others did not see.. a Lentation moment? Switching from one program to the other?…then going what? And you are back in this reality? Never walked around feeling as if the world goes slower than you? Like the people are sleep walking? Is a natural lentation moment, one can do things then, if one manners the ways as to how, is knowing frequencies, is being able to fight in many special ways, like ones the old Samurhai Mystic fighters did , they were called the Ghost fighters those who live in the Fog/Misty Woods.

Holywood must be seen as a reflection of our society or ways, what we think the most, want the most, long for the most, fear the most and hate the most or destroy, will be seen on our TV or especially at the Movies..we are dealing with Magic here…the magic of the ether caught up where the strongest antenna’s are, places where the most creative minds are trapped to, those who see, have vision or knowing fantasia is Artist, Artist are visionares, and those who create come closest to the womb, is source, they suck up the life force coming from us people/society and from the earth, then they get inspired , and then we see our world looking like the movies or is it that we firstly Desire the whole lot we see presented to us, we Desire whatever it is that we desire and this has and effect, we see then this reality unfolding right in front of our eyes. Where did you think Artist get their inspiration from? We are Cause and the Artist/Art is the Effect…
My advise look a bit closer to Movies these days… its all about reality and fantasy meeting.

Sapient Thanks for the links these people seem a bit more awake, many seem to realise that there is something going on. People there is something going on..

Look at politics…we are moving to this State …now the film keeps giving us Zion.. but what if Zion is not them but looked us we who are about to fall in this Zionist state, look at all the new laws, and read the protocol of the elders of Zion again…yeh there I go again for those who know me from the first days.. but its time that you guys realise that this not a party, they the New World Order gang is closing us in while distracting us with wars and fear news like sars..

From; PROTOCOL 1

THE BASIC DOCTRINE

“Right lies in Might — Politics versus Morals — The End justifies the Means — "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" — The New Aristocracy.

23. Our countersign is — Force and Make-believe. Only force conquers in political affairs, especially if it be concealed in the talents essential to statesmen. Violence must be the principle, and cunning and make-believe the rule for governments which do not want to lay down their crowns at the feet of agents of some new power. This evil is the one and only means to attain the end, the good. Therefore we must not stop at bribery, deceit and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end. In politics one must know how to seize the property of others without hesitation if by it we secure submission and sovereignty

24. Our State, marching along the path of peaceful conquest, has the right to replace the horrors of war by less noticeable and more satisfactory sentences of death, necessary to maintain the terror which tends to produce blind submission. Just but merciless severity is the greatest factor of strength in the State: not only for the sake of gain but also in the name of duty, for the sake of victory, we must keep to the… PROGRAM… of violence and make-believe. The doctrine of squaring accounts is precisely as strong as the means of which it makes use. Therefore it is not so much by the means themselves as by the doctrine of severity that we shall triumph and bring all governments into subjection to our super-government. It is enough for them to know that we are too merciless for all disobedience to cease."

People Look at the Portocols of the Elders of Zion… this seems to be the program we are in, now I know it’s a long long read, but it takes you half a day and you will recognise so much I promise…IF You Are Awake… and its not about a final War alone its about the Absolute Love as well.. the one that will open up gates.. brining in a new awareness for all becoming one with the life force again..or something like that..

The Matrix comes from Minds who Know..they know what is going on..Reloaded is correct..for those who know..

Earth Steal and Stone… the speech Laurence Fishburn made.. this is Zion and we are Not afraid… He also said in an interview very clearly That we live in a time and that the people must realise in what sort of world we live in, and they Must realise that we must be very careful in what we do how we move around for everything we do matters..

Cause and Effect, in the end..its all about Cause and Effect…

Oh and the angels they show us that angels are not sweet being but life force sucking beings who can die..I believe they fear wood, maybe that is why they cut all the trees everywhere?

Lalia..
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:28 / 01.06.03
Ah, well, when you put it like that, obviously. Except that you fail to take into account, RRM, that (so-called Mitch) Batros was the name of the Bat-based villain in He-Man and the Masters of the Universe who attempted to conquer Eternia by stealing all its books, thus preventing people from READING the TRUTH.

Do you see? You are sleeping, and you do not want to wake up.
 
 
Sebastian
22:12 / 01.06.03
Just saw it. Had lots a fun, from the shite to the good things in it: a guy flying so fast that cars are literally lifted by his thunderous passing can only but make me laugh at my own sense of amazement and wonder. And he did it only to save the girl.

And it was free of all that poorly convincing, and a bit shameful, initiatory thing that predated the first flick ("take the red pill", "this is not real", "this is a phiosophical movie with cyber talk and action", etc).

In short, I think Reloaded is a great blockbuster product for kids, and in a "mature" packaging, so we can go see it without passing for Humbert-Humbert peidophilics who go to see "Bambi Returns" with the hope of having some child sit on our laps. And by now it should be clear the guys won't give all the answers to their, errr, "informatic-cosmogony", otherwise people would soon stop writing books and weblogs about it.

Ultimately, who really cares?
 
 
bio k9
06:50 / 02.06.03
After seeing The Matrix Reloaded I went home and watched Iron Monkey and Hard Boiled.

I read most of this thread but, like the movie, its a bit long and tedious so forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this...

why is Neo even fighting anything? Shouldn't he be able to see/shut down/delete the codes of his enemies? And why is he flying instead of just popping up somewhere else in the matrix? He has the inner gameshark for fucksake. Godmode on. Walk through walls dumbass.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:09 / 02.06.03
Can someone explain the spiritual overtones of having to fly a camera up someone's digital vagina?

You stupid philistine. That's an analogy with the Matrix: you see, the Universal womb was replaced by a digital replica, that generates comatose babies to feed the machines. So the Matrix is a big vagina, a digital vagina made of 1's and 0's. And it needs cake. Do I *really* have to spill it out for you??
 
 
deja_vroom
12:26 / 02.06.03
Ok, I will see this movie once more, and by then you all will be bored of this discussion and anyway, hwo really caes? But right now I offer this: The american mainstream action-movie has never let me down because I have never expected much from it. I roll my eyes at the comedy reliefs, at the one-liners, at the deus ex machinae etc, yeah give me eyeee-candyyy, I don't give a fuck, I can rent decent movies if I want to (wait some more, I'm almost getting to my point. There is one). So whenever I see someone handling *decently* a scene, I start wondering "Did they do this intently, or was it an accident? Am I just seeing things in my own personal way, deepening my experience from a source material that only by accident is not spoiled?" That's what happened in the Architect scene, because I think they handled the concept of multiple realities soooo fucking well... if you take the Animated Cartoon theory and think of reality as frozen frames, multiple, endless frozen frames, and that your consciousness creates the illusion of movement by mving really fast across these frames. Then Neo is there, with all those screens showing probabilities of behavior, then the camera (this is the "wow!" bit) zooms in ONE screen - and that one becomes reality, all the other disappear and become dead probabilities. I thought: "COOL!".

Had they replaced all the clumsy dialogue scenes with clever exposition (that is even better because it can be read in soooo many ways), I would have enjoyed the movie much more. Still, will se it again and organize my thoughts.
 
 
waxy dan
12:27 / 02.06.03
why is Neo even fighting anything? Shouldn't he be able to see/shut down/delete the codes of his enemies? And why is he flying instead of just popping up somewhere else in the matrix? He has the inner gameshark for fucksake. Godmode on. Walk through walls dumbass.

Because the W. brothers have the originality of the Eurovision? I didn't mind it in the first one ("why not lobotomise all these damned batteries, and fuck this Matrix mullarkey?"), as it allowed for some cool chop-socky. But I expected Neo realising himself as the One to actually mean something. Preferably in spiritual terms, but at the very least, in funky superpower terms.
 
 
Sebastian
13:04 / 02.06.03
why is Neo even fighting anything?

Because its the rules of the "game" Neo has "learned" he is inside, the rules of The Matrix, a video-game just as the one that copulates with the movie, rules which are also the rules of US action spectacle. And Neo is of course a US citizen who would enjoy at his most precisely this type of movie and video games full of over-the-crazy-top action scenes, soft black leather eroticism all these intertwined and chained in a context of informatic-reality puzzles. A quite unprecedented piece of an entertaining product, nice and wonderfully packaged: movie and game at the same time, for someone who was sick of experiencing the movie-combo game taking place in bore-fucked Jedified-Tattoine. It just couldn't be otherwise for him.

"Try to remember, its only a game."

In this sense, The Invisibles was never so much right about anarchy and revolution being a commodity product for your sheer pleasure.
 
 
waxy dan
13:11 / 02.06.03
X2 got to have hot leather outfits and funky superpowers. Eh?

Bladerunner got to have hot spandex outfits, funky gun-fu fights, and a bit o' philosophical punch. And still be released as a mainstream film... though it didn't do that well, it's true....
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:06 / 02.06.03
Do I *really* have to spill it out for you??
Only if you've brought some Spray 'n' Wipe.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
16:41 / 02.06.03
Did anyone else hear a crazy rumor that one of the W Bros is going in for a sex change?
 
 
bio k9
17:14 / 02.06.03
I have now. And I'm going to tell everyone I know.
 
 
Sebastian
19:01 / 02.06.03
I over-generalised when I said Neo is just a US citizen. He is a citizen of what we would call the "modern" world. Precisely the kind of citizen this movie-game reality-quiz is aimed to.
 
 
PatrickMM
01:16 / 03.06.03
why is Neo even fighting anything? Shouldn't he be able to see/shut down/delete the codes of his enemies? And why is he flying instead of just popping up somewhere else in the matrix? He has the inner gameshark for fucksake. Godmode on. Walk through walls dumbass.

Smith says it at one point in the film, "You're losing all your muscles, except the one that matters most." I think Neo is still held to the basic idea of what a human should be. He fights people because that's what's comfortable, and that's what he feels he needs to do in order to move the plan/movie along.

In the Smith scene, he is testing out a new opponent, probably the only thing that could legitimately challenge him within the matrix. Also, since Smith is no longer bound by the rules of code, he may not be vulnerable to Neo's attacks anymore.

In the swords/flying fight scene, Neo is fighting them to provide a distraction for his friends, so that they can get away.

Neo doesn't just appear places, or truly mess with things because he doesn't think that way. He is still held to the same rules that govern the behavior of Morpheus, etc. Only under moments of extreme stress is he able to tap into other powers, because he isn't thinking about it, he just does it. That's why he is able to take over Smith in the first movie, and that's why he is able to repel the sentinels at the end of two. He still believes he is human, and that is why he fails.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
02:01 / 03.06.03
Actually, Smith tells Neo that he's using all of his muscles except for the one that matters most.

It was a dick joke. Neo's thinking with his cock and his brawn, but not with his head.
 
 
waxy dan
08:50 / 03.06.03
To be honest, I think you're making excuses for a bad script.

I think he doesn't have any funky powers, or take any interesting action, or become a mentor (not quite messaniac - that would be too much of a leap, I'd agree) of sorts, because a)they couldn't have Keanu Reeves take a background role, and b)they knew that people would act as apologists for them so they couldn't be arsed/aren't very skilled storytellers.

Sorry
 
 
Sebastian
11:34 / 03.06.03
I think Neo is still held to the basic idea of what a human should be. He fights people because that's what's comfortable, and that's what he feels he needs to do in order to move the plan/movie along.

I agree, thats what I meant by saying he is just taking it as a video-game inside the movie of his life. Think about it. What would a junkie video-game player and programmer do if he discovers that "we are all trapped by computers in a virtual reality"? Not to speak about girls clad in black leather: he falls in love with almost no questioning it, while there is people that already do that without needing to "awake".

And in this sense its not that the script is that bad. Its "targeted" or address to an audience that would find reality it just as Neo finds it to be. Just think of all the people that you know in advance will not fully empathise with the movie premises -or check here- and you'll se they probalby hold unto different perspectives about "reality". For many it is actually pointless to go back to the "matrix" except for fun, and game.

Has anybody actually considered that if the matrix actually takes place "in the brain", then just as the outter world also takes place "in the brain" Neo would then be able to effect all of his powers in the "outer world"? I don't know how far they are pushing this anyway.
 
  

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