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What's wrong with separatism?

 
  

Page: 1(2)34567... 8

 
 
Ganesh
14:30 / 12.05.03
my god do I have to explain this again

I don't think the problem is a lack of 'explanation'; the problem is your quality of 'explanation'. I - and, I suspect, others - hear you loud and clear when you insist that your politics are libertarian, that taxes are theft/slavery, etc., etc. It's just that the poor quality of logic and general lack of objective evidence render your arguments somewhat less than convincing.

I hear your 'explanation' well enough; I just happen to think it's bollocks.
 
 
Leap
14:48 / 12.05.03
Haus –

Now, if you are conversely attempting to argue that the fiction suit "Leap" will be materially affected by what people think of it *on Barbelith*, that's a slightly different matter, and might make for some interesting legal implications.

A whole new thread’s worth probably.

Why DID you include a quote from “A Barbeloid who shall remain unnamed” that implied my being a Nazi?

Humour? Provocation? Illustration (of what pray tell!)? Inanity?

However, this also suggests that you are threatening to attempt legal procedings against people who disagree with you if they do so in a way you feel not to be addressing the matter in hand (in this case..well, I thought we were talking about the fruitloopiness of separatism). This is a new and novel idea on Barbelith...might I ask how sincere you are in it?

Do I want to sue you for thread-rot? Please do not be so ridiculous – of course I do not wish to do so.

Do I wish you would grow up and cease this constant misrepresenting of what I say, in a completely irrelevant addition to the subject under discussion, in order to apparently fulfil a childish need to criticise (or at least pull faces) whilst offering (initially) little actual discussion yourself? Yes.

There was actually quite an interesting discussion going on before your Yeah, those fruit loops....they're just whacky. interjection lead to yet another tiresome and ludicrous race across the topic to serve your apparently quite fragile ego (given the need for attention rather than contribution, going from your first post). Perhaps if you could keep your own rules, and not twist either my words, or even possibly the intent of this thread with comments like However egarage has, as is her custom, not put in a topic abstract, so we don't even really have a topic to deviate from. I would actually bring my self to respect your currently rather facile contributions.

Ganesh –

I hear your 'explanation' well enough; I just happen to think it's bollocks.

As is your right. So how about convincing your friend Haus to shut the fuck up instead of requiring that I constant re-fucking-post to correct his misrepresentations? That way we could just get on with discussing whichever matter was at hand instead of going over the same damn stuff every time the court jester turns up.

Quantum –

You never told me you were a Nazi!

I hide it beneath a veneer of respectability! No, honestly!

The problem is 'seperatist' is often a synonym for 'Nationalist', which for me conjures all sorts of bad associations- like England fans abroad.

Ah, [sigh] back to the pre-haus-humorous-interjection subject matter……

I tend to have a similar response to the term (as do many people, I would hazard to guess) and thus my point that it is used in a similar way to “terrorist”; to engender a knee-jerk reaction to those are opposed to the multicultural, Hypermobility-transport-centred, post-modern, life’s-a-market-and-everything’s-a-product , world-of-strangers, dislocated homogenisation of Big Business centred contemporary Globalised ‘culture’ . It is a button to push that says “monster” and so short-circuits the need to actually think about WHY the “separatist” or “terrorist” is doing what they do.
 
 
Jub
14:50 / 12.05.03
I AM being fair. By all means criticise me for what I DO say, but not what Haus (or anyone else for that matter) spins that into.

Sadly, you've sort of missed what I was saying. I'm not claiming you shouldn't feel slighted by what Haus (or anyone else for that matter) says about you if you think it's offensive.

I AM criticising you for what you DID say! that somehow if people argue with you that's not fair, because it casts you in a bad light. My point was: *you* cast yourself in a bad light by your responses.

That's all. But hey - don't have a cow man!
 
 
Leap
15:00 / 12.05.03
Jub –

My point was: *you* cast yourself in a bad light by your responses.

Could you please say HOW I do so? I objected to being called a Nazi when I have NEVER said anything supportive of Nazism (and in fact have vehemently denied such!!).

I have been pulled up on refering to "slappers" before, and apologised to the person who said she felt afronted by my use of it. I expect a similar level of decency from Haus when he posts a quote accusing me of being a Nazi (yes I realise he denied it afterwards - hence my asking him WHY he actually posted it to begin with).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:03 / 12.05.03
Well, yeah. Leap, I know you are not going to get this, because you *never* get this, but....

Your vision of a perfect future was greeted with initial inquiry and, I confess, not a little skeptism, by myself and others. We asked questions and proposed problems. It became clear fairly quickly that you did not have the toolkit to deal with either. So, the same basic precepts were repeated over and over, as the audience became increasingly frustrated with your failure to respond in any meaningful way to criticism (with the single exception of finally conceding that people could carry shotguns as well as melee weapons, which was very good of you). As cogent objections were ignored completely, complex enquiries that showed a degree of respect in their depth were batted away with a single, rude line, usually asking if people would rather be childlike, perhaps followed by a string of question and exclamation marks, and it became increasingly clear that you were not really interested in looking at your model, only displaying it, skeptism turned to frustration, thence to boredom and eventually to satire. Lots of people are now taking the piss, which is a bit cruel, I realise, but they're kind of doing it because you insist on continuing to blab on about autonomy, dignity, moderation, slappers blah blah Leapcakes, without having the slightest desire or, it seems increasingly clear, ability to look at your own or other people's ideas with the critical faculties normally expected. Every criticism was treated as at best a betise and at worst an insult, because the only possible reason to criticise Leaptopia was perversity or political dogmatism.

Now, quick Barbelith history lesson. Way back whem the Greenland Posse, survived by the much sanert now Bendt Chromeo, appeared. One of their threads was that the world was run by paedophiles, that one of their number (RRM, if I recall), had psychic powers that enabled him to detect paedophiles, and that the only sane course of action was to give him and psychic nonce-detectors like him weapons and the right to sniff (it was an aroma, you see) and kill with impunity.

At first people attempted to engage and discuss this, probably more so than on some boards since a lot of people were on-stream with the psychic powers thing already, at least. Then, as it became clear that this delusory world was not open to criticism, and any attempts to do so lead to abuse and accusations of being a part or pawn of the paedoplot, people just started taking the piss.

That's where you are heading now. And I know that you are thinking "Well, that's bollocks, because that's clearly crazy, whereas Leapworld makes perfect sense", but unfortunately that's how it works, and it doesn't *matter* if Leapworld is indeed the only hope for humanity. You've lost your audience. Best thing to do would probably be to try not to think about Leapworld for a while, certainly to stop rotting every thread you join by wanking on about dignity, autonomy, Astronomy Domine blah blah patent officecakes, just chill, hang and generally show us what an interesting and great person you are. Then maybe the politics again. But right now you're running down the up escalator. Seriously. I offer you this advice with nothing but the best intentions.
 
 
Leap
15:20 / 12.05.03
Haus –

Lots of people are now taking the piss,

Which if we were actually discussing what they were taking the piss out of that is their choice. However a fairly sensible conversation on segregation was being had before you immature interjection……

Seriously. I offer you this advice with nothing but the best intentions.

Right. Listen up here Haus. Please explain to me where at any point in this post prior to your facile Yeah, those fruit loops....they're just whacky. interjection any of the above criticism actually applies? If you would not actually keep bringing the same subject up every time I post (because lets face it, there was absolutely no mention of such prior to that on this topic) and I did not let myself get sidetracked with having to undo shite like the “leap’s a Nazi” quote, perhaps we could actually progress further than the “Haus-The Big ME” show.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:32 / 12.05.03
You mean evidence of the way you turn every thread you visit into a rant about the iniquities of government?

Well, there's:

Of course today vigilance is the province of the state, who we require to police us rather than taking responsibility for such ourselves, which makes us all the more vulnerable to fruit loops like the BNP (or indeed New Labour with their pro-europe centrism and their authoritarian home secretary (truly the blind leading the blind!)).

After which I pointed out that it is facile (a favourite term of yours, I believe) to write off the BNP as *simply* "fruit loops", and frankly insulting to suggest that, were it not for government, everyone would be far too responsible to fall for any of that nonsense, especially since your own "enlightened" beliefs coincide with those of the BNP on many areas (and you have remained quiet on asylum seekers, immigration, gay and transgender rights, race relations and all sorts of other areas where we simply do not know how Leapworld would function, of course).

I sort of knew you weren't likely to get that, nor indeed get my last attempt to explain why you are being lightly mocked in open field. Still, it was worth a go, if only for the good of my conscience.
 
 
Leap
15:59 / 12.05.03
Haus –

Well, there's: ………

Ah, so whenever I say that in delegating too much to the govt we are making a mistake I am automatically arguing for “Leapworld(TM)”? Erm, Not! Has it occurred to you that I was simply making the point that in a domesticated society the management of people leads to them not using as much personal vigilance as might be wise (leading people to be easily lead in such as the BNP – as well as needing “just say no” campaigns in the states etc.)? We forget this in the comfortable managed west, and it is something we would do well to remember instead of calling for the govt to solve problems for us (and then serve as scapegoat when such things go wrong).

After which I pointed out that it is facile (a favourite term of yours, I believe) to write off the BNP as *simply* "fruit loops",

Simplistic perhaps, but hardly facile given the propensity for jargon on here.

and frankly insulting to suggest that, were it not for government, everyone would be far too responsible to fall for any of that nonsense,

When you rely on others more than yourself you degrade your “situational awareness”. Common sense really, but then by using that phrase I must be horror-of-horrors proposing Leapworld….or maybe not……….

especially since your own "enlightened" beliefs coincide with those of the BNP on many areas (and you have remained quiet on asylum seekers, immigration, gay and transgender rights, race relations and all sorts of other areas where we simply do not know how Leapworld would function, of course).

Can I weave them into a thread on segregation?

For what it’s worth….

Asylum seekers: I think we need stronger border controls instead of being the laughing stock of Europe as these “asylum seekers” make a B-line for England rather than stop in any of the other European Countries. I also think (genuine) asylum seekers would receive a kinder ride if this was the case. Oh, and I also think if we did not seek to shag over so many of the countries they come from (including selling arms to whichever dodgy dictator is currently in favour) there would be less of a problem. As it is, our country is already over populated. I would advocate an immediate moratorium on Asylum entrance into England until we could repatriate the ones who are already here (how many Iraqis will be going home in the next year I wonder)?

Immigration: Again, we are already heavily populated here. I have no objection on ground of race, religion etc. but simply on logistics. With my degree being in Comparative Religion I actually have a great deal of respect for divergent communities.

Gay and transgender rights: They have and should have the same rights I do. No more. No less. Personally I find the idea of gay sex stomach churning, but then I find the idea of eating shellfish to be stomach churning as well. I no more would seek to act against one than I would the other (which is to say I see no reason whatsoever to discriminate against gays and trans.).

Race relations: My own preference is for autonomous communities ruled by their own values, which can then be visited, rather than homogenous integration that more often decays identity into the post-modern mish-mash market than allows the flourishing of a recognisable identity.

I sort of knew you weren't likely to get that, nor indeed get my last attempt to explain why you are being lightly mocked in open field. Still, it was worth a go, if only for the good of my conscience.

What I get is that you insist on bringing the same discussion into every post whilst I was simply responding to the topic already here in a way that was in no way referenced to “Leapworld(TM)”. Get a life Haus.
 
 
Ganesh
16:31 / 12.05.03
No, I won't be asking Haus to "shut the fuck up" because, within the context of this thread, I thought (and think) he made a fairly incisive point with the "whacky" comment. You did, as you subsequently admitted, use the thread to indulge in a "bit of a rant" before going on to dismiss the BNP as "fruit loops" and Haus as a "troll". Haus then sketched a 'compare & contrast' of the BNP's driving obsessions and your own, and there are eerie similarities, not least in the peculiarly euphemistic language employed - which underlines the ironic separatism in your characterising them and their manifesto as crazy.

(It's worth pointing out that "whacky" is the adjective used by Michael Jackson to wave away the hypothetical concerns of those parents who might question his wish to enjoy 'sleepovers' with children...)

Haus's advice regarding your general 'standing' here is probably more apposite than you're able to see or accept. Idealogues are hardly uncommon on Barbelith, and it's interesting to see whether they're able to reconcile themselves and their worldviews with the other worldviews here - or whether they devolve into caricatures or grotesques, the online equivalent of the (un)pleasantly-psychotic chap outside the pub who's unable to converse for more than a few minutes without returning to the Zionist Conspiracy, 'bogus' asylum seekers and/or the mind-altering properties of microwaves. Relentless soapboxing can be relentlessly wearying; the advice to chill a little is good. Rant about something else for a change - anything else.
 
 
Leap
16:35 / 12.05.03
Ganesh -

Considering my rant was about the use of the term "separatist" and the similarity of its use and the use of the term "terrorist", I though I was Rant[ing] about something else for a change
 
 
Ganesh
16:43 / 12.05.03
Nah, it was pretty familiar stuff; not at all hard to see the way things would go within a post or two.
 
 
Leap
16:54 / 12.05.03
Ganesh -

And here was me thinking that as you responded with

Sure - but I think a lot of the 'bad press' around boundaries hinges less on the concept itself than from the ways in which, historically, humans have chosen to treat those on the other side of any given boundary. The 'slippery slope' model of stigma is one of the reasons we fluffy types get anxious around the idea of separatism.

you realised that the conversation was infact more upon how the term segragation was being used......
 
 
Leap
16:56 / 12.05.03
or even the term Separatist!

Sheesh!

 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:57 / 12.05.03
Godwin! Godwin everywhere !!!

(do I get a prize?)
 
 
Ganesh
17:27 / 12.05.03
It wasn't hard to see the way things would go, Leap, not because we were talking about separatism (that's se-pa-ra-tism) but because it's never hard to see the way threads will go once you've contributed more than a couple of posts. Just as one can unsuccessfully attempt different conversational gambits with Psychotic Pub Bloke, your appearance in a thread inevitably brings discussion back around to the principles underlying the LeapTopia philosophy. Some of this is because many, myself included, still find those principles so ludicrous that it's hard to resist taking the piss; some of it, however, is because you appear to find it similarly hard to resist reverting to ranty type. Your debating style - reliant as it is, upon opinionated generalisation presented as self-evidently objective fact, and inflammatory, smiley-heavy one-liners - also tends to encourage irritated rejoinders and, before we know it, we're back in LeapTopia.

My advice, like Haus's, is well-meant. If you're able to resist - even for a short while - parading your idealogy, people will eventually tire of making "slapper" jokes. If you try, I'll try. I'm tempted, for example, to start all manner of new threads based on your statements about asylum seekers, gay sex, blah blah blah - but I'm going to resist. I suggest, again, that you try to do the same.
 
 
Leap
19:02 / 12.05.03
Right,

i. so because I have actually got a set of principles around which I base what I say, which in turn adds a degree of consistancy to what I say, I am somehow in the wrong? You would prefer that someone not actually know what they are saying and argue from a different position each time??

ii. We were discussing the concept of being a "separatist", which I then said was a loaded term used in a similar way to "terrorist", followed up by the point that the term separatist is increasingly used to simply attack those who do not fall into line with post-modern society (I'm sure you can go back and read what I said without me needing to post it again), which was inturn followed by the point that in the domesticated urban environment we have a lowered situatinal awareness that makes us especially vulnerable to "fruit loops" like the BNP. This is then supposedly going to turn into a discussion on "Leaptopia"? Well it could in theory, but you seem to have pre-judged the situation (or rather allowed Haus' saboutage to do so)......

iii. Why NOT discuss what I said regarding gays etc? I was asked my opinion afterall...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:08 / 12.05.03
Really, dude, big diff between having a consistent set of beliefs informing opinions and thoughts and steamrollering everything else in order to expound them over and over and over. But anyway, I wish in the bright new dawn of friendship to make an effort, so will kick off by respecting your wishes:

Why NOT discuss what I said regarding gays etc? I was asked my opinion afterall...

Ok - you say that you find the idea of gay sex stomach-churning.

What, even lezzers?

Kooky.
 
 
Ganesh
19:47 / 12.05.03
Okay, gay sex it is. Let's try not to talk about LeapTopia for a while, hmm?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:02 / 12.05.03
Okay, so Professor Xavier preaches mutan/human integration, but I bet you couldn't get into his big fancy school with just any old mutation. Like, if your hair turned purple every fifth Wednesday, and you wrote to him and said "Dear Xavier, I haven't been to much school but my hair goes purple every 5th Wednesday, can I go to your school?" you'd probably just get a letter saying "Thanks, but you don't walk through walls or anything so fuck off". So he's kind of a separatist although he doesn't admit it.

Magneto is totally a separatist but he has a good hat.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:31 / 12.05.03
But seriously, folks, this is really beginning to confuse me. Let me explain why, placing Leap's beliefs in bold and Nick Griffin's in italics:

I would advocate an immediate moratorium on Asylum entrance into England until we could repatriate the ones who are already here (how many Iraqis will be going home in the next year I wonder)?

Immigration: Again, we are already heavily populated here. I have no objection on ground of race, religion etc. but simply on logistics. With my degree being in Comparative Religion I actually have a great deal of respect for divergent communities.


The first thing a BNP government would do is to stop all further mass immigration into Britain. Then we would put in place a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those foreigners resident in Britain would be encouraged to return to their lands of origin. We would offer them the proper cash provisions to do this.

My own preference is for autonomous communities ruled by their own values, which can then be visited, rather than homogenous integration that more often decays identity into the post-modern mish-mash market than allows the flourishing of a recognisable identity.

We are against mixed-raced relationships because we believe that all species and races of life on this planet are beautiful and must be preserved....We feel that to preserve the rich tapestry of mankind, we must preserve ethnic differences, not ‘mish-mash’ them together.

I think we need stronger border controls instead of being the laughing stock of Europe as these “asylum seekers” make a B-line for England rather than stop in any of the other European Countries.

The United Nations states that those forced to flee persecution to claim asylum should seek refuge in the first peaceful country they come to. On this basis, generally the internationally recognised one, we will not accept those seeking asylum apart from those fleeing the countries immediately surrounding Britain, such as Holland, France, Norway, Germany, Belgium or Ireland. We would only consider citizens of these countries for asylum.

Clearly, these ideals are different - and Leap scores high for describing homosexuality as merely personally repulsive rather than "wrong and unhealthy" - but, to be honest, I'm not seeing exactly where the BNP are "fruitloopy", from the point of view of a Leapian social doctrine. Extreme, yes. Fruitloopy, not so much. And the common use of "mish-mash" I find startling, I fear...rather as the term "post-modern" seems to be used (or rather, misused - see also the Head Shop thread on transphobia in the Guardian) to indicate a period after the period in which everything was right and good and made sense.

So, yeah, what is it, exactly, that makes the BNP fruitloops? And how did a world come into being where I am even *asking8 that question?
 
 
Rage
21:08 / 12.05.03
"You guys are fighting like stupid teenagers." -a stupid teenager

Let's try to save this thread before it's too late.

"I guess separatism carries negative overtones because one often defines one's group by Othering those who aren't in the group - and this frequently predisposes to stigmatisation (norms, mundanes, "sheeple", etc.). Stigmatisation tends to dehumanisation, and dehumanising someone permits one to treat them in 'cruel and unusual' ways. That's why we wishy-washy liberals frown on those bastard separatists. Hanging's too good for 'em, I say."

I thought we all had a common realization here: that reality was an alteration station: that any point of view could make sense, as long as it was a point of view that you were willing to fly with. Reality tunnels can change at any time, says Barbovious, so why frown on board members who are experimenting with us/them perspectives? You go to barbelith.com and you see all this "what side are you on?" silliness on the front page, and even though the true message of The Invisibles is that there are no sides: the comic book does focus on the "psychic war" that's been going on for how long? All you "I used words like sheeple when I was in high school so this means I'm further along in life than you" people have become separatists yourselves, because you seem to think that you're better than people who look at "the masses" as a single entity.

Bullshit. You can look at "the masses" however you want, just like you can look at any "group" however you want, and none of these perspectives are any more "enlightened" than the others. You're even free to make up new groups, and be a "separatist" regarding these groups, if you feel like it. Why not? There's time to play.

"Yeah, what 'Nesh said, all this separatism can be rather divisive and runs against the 'we're all huggly hippies and can all live and love together in peace and harmony' meme which seems to be fairly basic to alternative politix."

Exactly, which is why I feel politically alienated here, being someting like a "right wing anarchist" myself. If there's a meme that's pretty basic in alternative politix, it's contradicting that whole alternative thing which is why I say that holding an all white prom is subversive in this day in age: an age where fitting in is all about being a liberal huggly hippy: an age where declaring oneself separate from any group and making this division known is seen as an act of delusional elitism and/or immature thinking.

I'm sick of people thinking that separatism is "the war mentality," (are you gonna kill someone because you refer to them as a them?) and/or race related, and I'm even sicker of people (especially barbelites) denying the fact that the majority of society is stuck in a metaphorical box so they prove to be "beyound such trife." People can change, and everyone has the potential to "break out," but this doesn't mean that "the drone phenomena" is some Baby Sitters Club for the counterculture. Fuck that. I know that most people don't think they're "most people," but that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the reality tunnel of "finding my people" or that this reality tunnel is any less valid than the reality tunnel of "unity for all." Unity for some can be a lot sexier. Why do you think so many of us love Magneto and his hat?

Leap: If you know you're not a Nazi, why do you keep defending yourself? Is it really worth it? The people that understand the similarities between the "terrorist" and "separatist" labels will appreciate what you're saying, and this is all that should matter.

Haus: If you wanna insuslt someone, do it through PM or something. It's obvious that you used to be Leap and Rage and all those posters who you think are less everwhat than you, and it's also obvoius that you're telling people what you wish you could have been told extremely obnoxiously. It gets older than someone not using topic abstracts, does it not?

"I guess separatism would require a fairly firm sense of self-identity also, not a fluid, playful 'i can be whatever i want' type id."

Also bullshit. If you realize that identity is Play-doh than you can obviously take on the identity of a separatist. Basic math here.

By the way, I don't even use words like drone and peon anymore, (it did get old) but this doesn't mean that I'm gonna look down on someone who does. If you look down on someone who uses such words, you're not only a separatist but a hypocrite.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:29 / 12.05.03
Rage, darling, no offence, but really - I was never you, nor was I Leap. In both cases it would no doubt have been enormously educational, but hasn't happened. Never will happen. C'est la. I know how much you guys have invested in the idea of being special and different, and that's great, if it drives you on to do something fantastic and worthwhile. If you just hang around telling everyone how special and different you are, you'll just end up with cellulite.

You're missing a couple of steps here, the most obvious one being the age-old distinction between between being other than them and being other than him or her. I am other than you, you are other than me. That doesn't mean that either of us is necessarily them. One of the things that I find interesting about Barbelith is that it is, with the exception of me and my fellow hemisphere, highly monadic and reasonably consistent. There's usually a Leap, for example. The last one was Torquemada, the one before that was GRIM. They were different, but identifiable, and that works quite nicely if you're constructing a monadic model - elements reoccuring in random configurations.

In a sense, a monadic model, one that sees every member as an individual, which is actually something you can do in a community as small as Barbelith but struggle to achieve somehere larger through sheer resource management problems, is by definition separatist; there is neither an "us" nor a "them", but rather an absolute shitload of only tenuously connected individuals, each one an us and a them, or neither. And you can work from there. Rage, it seems, feels not separatist but alienated (difference), because she is attempting to rebel against the liberal humanism that she apparently, sincerely and rather charmingly believes to be the universal condition of humankind.

That's very enjoyable, and probably very Invisible - I'm afraid I haven't read them for a while. And I look forward to celebrating this bracing political incorrectness. We don't get enough of it in our everyday lives. It's like fibre.
 
 
Ganesh
21:32 / 12.05.03
Hmmm... my "we wishy-washy liberals" comment wasn't particularly an attempt to speak On Behalf Of Barbelith but of notional wishy-washy liberals in general. Perhaps I should've made this clear at the time. I'll take care from here on in to be specific in my use of the word "we".

Incidentally, who's the "we" that understands reality in terms of changeable "reality tunnels"? Am I part of that "we"?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:55 / 12.05.03
Well, there's a problem inherent in "I thought we *all* knew and accepted this" statements...that everyone has the right, it seems, to see the world in terms of an us who don't and a them who do...
 
 
Ganesh
22:02 / 12.05.03
Mmm. It's a mish-mash, but it's our mish-mash. Not theirs.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:15 / 12.05.03
It's a heck of a mish-mash. In fact, it's a monster mish-mash...

He did the mish-mash
He did the monster mish-mash
The monster mish-mash
It was a graveyard smash


Can I be the left brain for a bit? I feel left braininess is all over this situation...
 
 
Ganesh
22:19 / 12.05.03
Okay. You be Mish, I'll be Mash. When we meet, it'll be Mish-Mash Moider.
 
 
The Falcon
01:32 / 13.05.03
Egocentric question: who was me before I was on Barbelith?*

Leap, please present a link that proves Britain is the no.1 hotspot for asylum seekers in Europe. Because I read it's 10th of the 17 E.U. countries in 'wishy-washy' liberal/leftist paper The Independent. In fact, please start a thread on this.

*I will be mighty pleased if I'm unique.
 
 
Rage
06:52 / 13.05.03
So I'm trying to prove that I'm unique by pleading a case for grouping, Haus?

::giggle::

Everyone who likes the color blue makes up an "us," and everyone who doesn't makes up a "them." You can do this with anything: it doesn't mean that you're any less of an individual if you like the same color as a group of people and declare it. (or if you share the same realizations or even the same philosophical inquiry games)

If you have done the mish-mash
You are weeeeeeeeee
If you have not done the mish-mash
You are not a weeeeeeeee

And everyone who does the mish-mash does the mish-mash differently, not to mention that all the mish-mash people eat different foods and wear different clothing. About that guy who wasn't doing the mish-mash? He was an interesting fellow who read the same books as that mish-mash chick.

But separatism is sooooo uncool these days. I mean,
maybe it's not fair to attribute a "we" to people aware of reality tunnel jargon here, but I think it's fair to say that we've all eaten pizza, is it not? Listened to The Pixies? I'd say so. Seen The Matrix? Sure.

But you'll just tell me you "used to think like me" or make fun of "the separatist mentality" which itself is separatism, because you're grouping it into parody mode.

There is no alienation in the alien nation, and I'm not afraid to mention that this nation is alive and hopping. Froggy goes swimming in the sunshine. Alive! Alive! Why do "you people" have such a problem with this?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:28 / 13.05.03
Our universal reference points are the Matrix, the Pixies, pizza and the Invisibles? We, collectively, need to get out more.
 
 
Leap
08:40 / 13.05.03
Haus (on why I am allegedly so similar to the BNP) –

Immigration You do not have to be a fascist to recognise the over-population problem and the way everyone makes a b-line through our neighbours, to the UK. Spread the load equally.

Mixed communities So now you also have to be a fascist to recognise distinct culture…or perhaps the fascists have hi-jacked the culture issue for their own race-hate message….has THAT occurred to you (or is it just easier to assume the worst of others? The alternative appears to be the supporting of Globalist Homogenisation.

Border controls Same as Immigration.

Clearly, these ideals are different

They are different in motivation (BNP = Race Hatred) and severity (they typically advocate violence and fear as their choice of preference!)

and Leap scores high for describing homosexuality as merely personally repulsive rather than "wrong and unhealthy"

I am sorry but are you being sarcastic here or accepting that I do not have to support and like gay sex in order for me to accept it at all?

the common use of "mish-mash" I find startling,

You and me both!

Rage –

Exactly, which is why I feel politically alienated here, being someting like a "right wing anarchist" myself. If there's a meme that's pretty basic in alternative politix, it's contradicting that whole alternative thing which is why I say that holding an all white prom is subversive in this day in age: an age where fitting in is all about being a liberal huggly hippy: an age where declaring oneself separate from any group and making this division known is seen as an act of delusional elitism and/or immature thinking.

Leap: If you know you're not a Nazi, why do you keep defending yourself? Is it really worth it? The people that understand the similarities between the "terrorist" and "separatist" labels will appreciate what you're saying, and this is all that should matter.

Fair point rage. Thanks.

Duncan –

Leap, please present a link that proves Britain is the no.1 hotspot for asylum seekers in Europe. Because I read it's 10th of the 17 E.U. countries in 'wishy-washy' liberal/leftist paper The Independent. In fact, please start a thread on this.

It is not simply a matter of influx, but influx as compared to territory; our immigration per usable square mile (and also taking into account cost of living – house costs in the UK are phenomenal as compared to say, France). I will seek out the figures I am thinking of though.

Haus –

Our universal reference points are the Matrix, the Pixies, pizza and the Invisibles? We, collectively, need to get out more.

Being only able to reference the Matrix and Pizza does that make me part of a minority ‘we’?
 
 
The Natural Way
08:52 / 13.05.03
This question might sound stupid and overly naive (but maybe that's necessary here):

What the fuck is all this crap about bad cultural mixing and evil post-modern mish-mashs? What are you talking about? Why is this stuff bad? I really need this explained, and, joy of joys, it's on topic.
 
 
Lurid Archive
08:53 / 13.05.03
Leap, you might want to bear in mind that the BNP do not publicly accept the charge that they are rascists. Nick Griffiths denies it regularly. Personally I don't believe them because I don't think a flat denial of something you clearly support is very convincing.

By the same token, your denial that you are similar to the BNP, when we have comparitive quotes, is another flat denial. It doesn't necessarily mean you are rascist, but the similarities can't be wished away by your outrage either.

It is not simply a matter of influx, but influx as compared to territory; our immigration per usable square mile (and also taking into account cost of living – house costs in the UK are phenomenal as compared to say, France). I will seek out the figures I am thinking of though.

You do that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:05 / 13.05.03
Actually, the BNP manifesto makes it quite clear that they are not a racist party, and that they do not advocate violence. This may not be the case on the ground, but we're talking about *beliefs* here. And your beliefs appear to be remarkably similar, in effect and terminology, to the BNP. I'm just sayin'. What I am certainly not saying is that you share their racist ideology, but the effects tend to end up the same. On the gay sex front, I suggest you take a look at the "gay sex" thread Ganesh started, because I for one have no idea what you mean by it. And I'm sure, surely sure sure, that you couldn't possibly have the same attitude to, say, mixed-race marriages. Because at that point it just gets w-h-acky...
 
 
Dan Mann (WARNING: This is a fictional character and should NOT be taken seriously.)
09:34 / 13.05.03
Well that was the first tag-team match I've ever seen with only ONE wrestler fighting in the blue corner. (And possibly a schitzophrenic guy flitting between personalities.)

Leap, Ganesh and Haus, who I STRONGLY believe to be the same person (but I could be wrong - probably am) have the worldviews of old people - They 'aren't for changing,' i.e. they can't be convinced otherwise on things that they feel are intrinsically written as law withing reality. And I generalise with the term 'old people' after being traumatised by the sight of my gran fucking a chicken when I was a wee lad...

But from the point of view of the red corner, let's be good little 'free' barbelithians and recognise the superiority and the
obviously neutral positions of both moderators and ban the arrogant little free-thinking shit! It's worked before! (uummmhhh...)
 
  

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