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Pitching to Epic

 
  

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Ray Fawkes
20:03 / 09.04.03
Great. Have fun!
 
 
Spaniel
20:34 / 09.04.03
Cheers, Ray. I reckon you're a good old bloke.

Can I check out any of your stuff online?
 
 
PatrickMM
22:46 / 09.04.03
Again, a couple of things.

Cameron, I defenitely respect what you're saying, and I'm actually working on a completely original OGN right now, that I'll likely end up self-publishing, as well as helping put together a small press anthology for self-publishing, but I still think that using an existing publisher is the way to go. Take a look at The Invisibles itself. You say that, because Vertigo held some rights to Invis, they had to clear all the art for Anarchy with Vertigo. Obviously, this is a disadvantage of the agreement, but Grant had tried to self-publish the series, it's very likely that there would not be the fan base neccessary to publish a guidebook of that nature.

It's very likely that he would have been bankrupted during the early period of the book, when sales were relatively low, and before the TPB money came in. Also, the TPB infastructure wouldn't have existed, so it would be a lot tougher to spread the book to people. Also, lining up artists would have been more difficult. Obviously there are disadvantages, but, particularly for an unproven talent, going through a big company is a way to get a reputation. It's a lot easier for someone to pick up your book if they can just grab it right off the shelf, instead of having to special order it.

All that said, if you consider control of the book more important than exposure to people, or having it in color, then self-publishing is definitely the way to go, but I'd rather have people readily able to pick up the book and read it, so I think an established publisher would just be better for that.

Just from my personal experience, when I go into Borders, or my LCS, almost every trade is from one of the big two. Obviously, there's more to writing than having people read it, but I'd like people to be able to read what I write if I got in the position where I had a chance to work for Vertigo. But for now, it's self-publishing for me.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:50 / 09.04.03
And I guess the point of all that was, I'm submitting a proposal to Epic because if published, I'd have my name on a Marvel comic, and be put on the shelf of every comic book store around the nation. If you look at almost all the big writers (Morrison, Ellis, Moore), they became big writing a corporate book, from one of the big two. I'm going to put out my comics self-published, but I think it's a much quicker route to getting a big audience for an original book by taking a detour, and write a really great work for hire book for the big two. Epic is just a means to that, and I wouldn't mind sacrificing one story for the exposure.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:45 / 10.04.03
Cameron, thanks for the kick in the arse to people.

I DON'T want to do comics. I can't draw, and don't want to give my stories to someone else. I don't want to have to do work by committee. I can't learn to draw.

AND IT'S NOT A DEEP SEATED NEED I HAVE.

If it isn't something you need to do, you won't do it.

If it is, you will and no one will get in your way. Ask Matt Feazel.
 
 
rakehell
05:34 / 10.04.03
On the weekend I went to a comic convention in Syndey. I spoke with someone who has a couple of submissions in various stages with Epic. Yes, they're not accepting submissions yet - but they will in a few weeks, 6 I think he said. He runs a successful comics website and was asked to submit something, they liked it and asked for more.

According to him, if they accept your story submission and give you the green light, you get $500 for the script a further $500 when the first 6 pages of art come in and then $7,000 when the whole thing is done.

To someone in Australia at current exchange rates, even if I only kept $2,500 out of it and gave the rest to artist, letterer etc, I'd still be able to take about a month leave-without-pay from my job and concentrate on writing full time. That's a BIG, BIG incentive to submit.

I know that it's probably bottom level pay at a per-page rate, but it's more than I'm likely to see from something self-published for a long time.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:47 / 10.04.03
Cameron, I'd appreciate it if I wasn't singled out for any more of your *examples*. God, you always see things in such fucking extremes. See Bos's post: it IS possible to inhabit a MIDDLE GROUND.
 
 
Ray Fawkes
12:29 / 10.04.03
Bos: You can see a (very) small sample of my stuff at http:www.pipersnow.com/comics.html

Runce: To be fair, I don't think Cameron is so much singling you out as replying to your statements. And I don't think his views are so much extreme as they are passionate. In my experience? People who occupy the "middle ground" in creative pursuits are generally the ones who talk and never do anything. See, they want to be directors/writers/photographers etc enough to fantasize about it, but not quite enough to do it. So it's okay if they never get anywhere with it because they don't really care that much. But nobody should tell them they can't try...

You know, I'm not against pitching to Epic. I'm just amazed at how many "fair-weather" writers seem to be coming out of the woodwork on this one...people who think that Marvel will jump at the chance to publish the work of those who, by their own admission, don't really give a shit.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:43 / 10.04.03
Batroc the Leaper. Gay. And not really French.

copyright ME
 
 
The Natural Way
12:50 / 10.04.03
But I do give a shit. I'm loving doing this. I just don't give a shit for pumping out creator-owned stuff....yet. And that's just it: yet. How many times do I have to underline with all my special pens: this is the first script I've ever written. Slowly does it, you know? I'm not a good example to use because I don't inhabit this funny position I keep getting forced into. I don't say I will NEVER churn out my own stuff, only that I'm enjoying a pressure free start to the scripty-business. I appreciate Cam's passion, but I don't like being used as an example of someone who will never make it because "he doesn't care enough". Just now, I'm starting to care. And if Marvel are responsible for that by providing a good excuse (something some of us, with all of our self-doubt and lazy arses, actually need): cool. Go Marvel.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:54 / 10.04.03
And would this be a bad time to mention that I'd love Cameron to illustrate my Power Pack book?

Oh yes.
 
 
Sax
13:06 / 10.04.03
Actually, Runce, I think Cameron was talking to me with the "if you're not dedicated, then get out of the way" stuff. I freely admitted that I wasn't going to curl up and die if I didn't write comic books, but I would like to give it a shot.

That doesn't mean I'm not dedicated to writing though. I currently have two 83,000 word novels out with literary agents, both of which were written in what little free time I have after 10 hours a day (sometimes six days a week) working my arse off in my fairly high-pressure journalism day job. It might not be a burning ambition to write comics, but I don't see why that should preclude someon who, actually, is a good writer, from having a go.

Whether I actually pitch to Epic or not I don't know. I've done a 22-page treatment of an old Marvel second-stringer which I think is very good. I might fuck Epic off and approach Marvel directly to sell it to them under their usual terms for writers, I might re-tool it to suit my own ends and flog it to Dark Horse or something. What I probably won't do, though, is produce a small-press comic. I'm a writer and I don't have the time, cash or wherewithall to produce a full comic book, as admirable as I think it is when people do that.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
14:00 / 10.04.03
[Offtopic]
Rakehell - this was Supanova? Were you at drinks at the Century on Saturday night? Our paths may have crossed...
[/Offtopic]
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
20:49 / 10.04.03
Choosing sides now.

Self publishers fuck off. this thread is called 'PITCHING TO EPIC'(fuckin ink drag)

mmm anyday.

after all you're time on this board, experienced posters, don't you have a feel for the passions on this board?

shameless hounding of fine heads on the threads ain't no point to it -snobs.

Some people might want to write a comic, not dedicate their life to the fuckin industry, muppets!

that not showing nuff commitment? dumb perspective, chaps. and you know it.

I'm sending in a script. I don't expect to see it published. Doesn't matter, I'll self publish my already completed comic instead, but I'll talk about that on another thread, muppets.

ha ha.

and 'naysaying' was deployed appropriately.

as was this, 'muppet', just there.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:43 / 11.04.03
Well, there's definitely two conversations going on on this thread. One of them concerns getting all hot and sweaty about men-in-pants, the other seems to be about telling the hot-and-sweatys to shut up. Which is valid and all well and good, but it's not why I started the thread. It's not that I think we SHOULDN'T question this stuff, it's just that I'd rather we didn't do it here. I just feel like my nice little spunk-thread's been hijacked by a completely different conversation. Perhaps the abstract allows for this stuff. Maybe I should've been clearer from the outset. But I can't really believe peeps didn't grok right from the get go that this thread was about sharing yr Epic ideas and having fun wittering about them.

Let's get this baby back on track.

Yawn, where's yr fucking script? Do you know, at least 4 different krunts have read mine and I haven't read one of theirs?

I've just started on a Power Pack thing. They're older: Alex IS the impacted anus and Katie's a right pain in the butt. After that I'll prolly knock up at least one more. Possibly Moon Knight. And then, regardless of whether or not the fucker sees print, I'm gonna write ish 2 of Kazar... Fortean Times Special: Big Cats roam the Canterbury Countryside! That's the tag-line I threw onion's way, and I'm loving it.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:37 / 11.04.03
The panel layouts thing: does anyone think epic-pitchers should bother with them? Should we ignore them altogether? Should we embrace them? Or should we chuck a few in just to show we're down with it and competent and all that stuff....

What d'you think, serious comic-writing bods?
 
 
The Natural Way
13:44 / 11.04.03
Another thing: are the Power Pack located in NY. I ASSUME they are, but I'm not sure. And can any of you give us the name of a really nice suburb. The sort of place you'd raise a family if you were white and smiling and in the 80's. I could look it up, but you guys...your so great. I want to marry you.
 
 
Gary Lactus
11:10 / 12.04.03
"The Power family have just recently moved to Bainbridge Island, approximately ten miles away from the city of Seattle, Washington, due to Dr. James Power getting a new job. (At this point, both parents seem to know of their children's dual identities and are comfortable with them.) Almost immediately, the Power Pack were taken to Snark World to help stop a civil war."

Marry me.
 
 
Spaniel
11:21 / 12.04.03
Power pack lived in NY historically.
 
 
PatrickMM
14:59 / 12.04.03
Being in the area, I can tell you that Chapaqua (where Bill Clinton now lives), and Scarsdale are probably the nicest/richest suburbs of NYC.
 
 
moriarty
15:09 / 12.04.03
Runce was asking where Power Pack are currently located. Fraelyboy gave the official Marvel continuity answer to that question (last paragraph).
 
 
The Natural Way
20:46 / 12.04.03
Bollocks to all that.

Just married.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:13 / 13.04.03
runce:

no script yet. the story is twenty two pages about the art of boredom.

It's a one off. I'm not pitching anything else. It's a fine concept. I'm ripping off Mirkin the Mystic, 'Tlotny Throws a Shape' and Fantastic Four no. 11.

Its main colours are lime green and purple.
 
 
Tamayyurt
20:42 / 13.04.03
About the script format, I didn't follow it but now I was thinking it wouldn't be too much trouble to just go page by page moving everything over to the side and to make it look like their script. Still, I think it looks stupid their way and mine's a lot clearer.
 
 
Bradley Sands
01:16 / 15.04.03
Or better yet, for script format, you can use a script writing program (such as Final Draft). This is easily obtainable via naughty means if you haven't got the cash.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
02:55 / 15.04.03
The Power family have just recently moved to Bainbridge Island, approximately ten miles away from the city of Seattle, Washington, due to Dr. James Power getting a new job. (At this point, both parents seem to know of their children's dual identities and are comfortable with them.)

Holy shit...Bainbridge Island! That's so amazingly perfect. Whoever wrote that was very inspired. That would dovetail very nicely with what I'd want to do with Power Pack, so I'm now going to brainstorm on this. I think I may actually try to do this.
 
 
Spaniel
10:51 / 15.04.03
Looks like Flux and Runce are going to duke it out over Power Pack.
 
 
Spaniel
10:53 / 15.04.03
Finally got my Heroes for Hire script underway. Aren't their costumes wonderfully tasteless?
 
 
The Natural Way
16:24 / 15.04.03
Flux: swap scripts when done!

I'm about halfway through the ish now.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:58 / 15.04.03
I can't emphasize enough how PERFECT Bainbridge Island is for the Power Pack. Hippie communes! Hippie fucking communes!

You'd be crazy not to run with that, Runce!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:14 / 15.04.03
Thinking on it a bit more, I have no good reason to bother with this. It's fun to think up ideas for these silly old characters, but it is quite another thing to invest a lot of creative energy into something that a) if I actually pitched it to Marvel, they would reject because it's b) not going to really be a superhero story, and I'm far better off coming up with the same story without the superhero stuff forced into it. If by chance Marvel did go with it, I'd bet a lot of the things that Jack Fear and Cameron Stewart have predicted would definitely come true. It's not worth my time even fucking around with it, except maybe as a creative-writing excercise.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:32 / 15.04.03
Also: I've been ignoring this thread for the longest time out of disinterest, but I want to voice my approval of everything Cameron has said in this thread.

DIY is the way to go. Go DIY, and maybe another company will you help you out/pick you up, but DIY is the way to go. If you are in it for the love, take control of your own destiny. Follow a guy like David Rees's example. It's not that expensive.
 
 
CameronStewart
22:17 / 15.04.03
Phew. You gave me a fright there for a second, Flux. I thought I'd lost you to the Dark Side.


 
 
The Natural Way
12:35 / 17.04.03
Th enemy speaks: just finished Power Pack. I fucking love writing the Power family - the thing practically wrote itself! Selling out? My arse. And where, pray tell, are yawn, boboss and onion's scripts? I NEED them!

Judging by the way Barbelith's initial enthusiasm has turned oh-so-sour, I'm living in hope that only a small percentage of the twarts who originally reckoned on pitching will actually get it together to do so. In which case: say hello to Marvel's new mega-writer! I whinn!

Although probably not.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:04 / 17.04.03
I promise you runce, I will deliver a script.
I promise.

ps: totally bemused by the negativity on this thread.

totally.

pps: of course, I'm not doing the script for you Runce, but yes, I'd like you to read it and thank the Watcher for your enthusiasm.
 
  

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