How else would/could 'chavs' label themselves though? why should they? Because some of the middle classes don't like the word and what it stands for? Haus, I find your ideas about Carroll a bit problematic, as you seem to be suggesting that he can't be happy to be labelled (and to label himself) as a chav. Why not?
When I was a little bit younger, I ran with a few crowds, and my main weekender-group were a mix of about 90% townie/chav kids and 10% 'greebo' (which is what the townie peeps called me and my little group). This group that I used to run with definitely thought of themselves as townies. At that point in time and in that area, the 'townies' had all the power, they were far and away the dominant sub-group. They chose the name for themselves, and 'greebo' was the insulting name they called us grungy kids. We took on greebo as our label, turning it from an insult into something that we were proud of (for our generation, that is. I have no idea what happened 5 years earlier or 5 years later). Why can/is it not the same for todays mainstream working-classes and their 'chav' style.
There was a documentary on Sky last year where Julie Burchill defended chav, the clothes, the attitudes, even Daniella Westbrook. At first, I disagreed with her, looking with derision at the 'proles'. I must admit though, as I turned the idea over in my head I found it to be far more complex than I'd originally given it credit. If people want to dress a certain way and identify with each other, why not? Us non-chavs expect the same rights, with our 'nice' clothes (heh, speak for yourselves on that one...) and it's not as if the same territory is being fought over in the minor ideological war between chavs and alterna-kids. There are disticnt spaces where each group can exist without ever really mixing with the others unless they want to.
If, as a fey pale studenty type you want to go into a pub filled with red-faced shaven headed men in football-shirts, then fair enough, but you should expect to feel a bit out of place, or even be talked about. One way I can think of relating this to the Barb is by asking if there are many 'chav' identified posters on this board? I shouldn't think there are, but I'd guess they'd feel pretty out of place too, especially if they can't meet the academic standards expected of posters here (especially in fora like this), they'd find it quite a hostile place, especially if their ideologies differed too much from that of the Barbelth community. 'Why would they come here though?' is a good comeback to this argument, obviously. My question is: 'why wouldn't they?' Would Barbelith be a hostile space for a self-identified chav?
Also - hoodie kids. Aren't these mostly middle-class white 'rock' identifying kids? I find the news' attitute to hoodies to be a bit confusing, because you get hip-hop hoodies and metal/punk hoodies, but these two groups are usually wildly different (although there is a bit of crossover).
I think a point that was made way back on the first page by . sums up the way I feel about this issue pretty succintly: it seems to me (recalling my school days) to just be the latest manifestation of youth culture tribalism.
It's always 'us' vs 'them', always. And yes, it's usually based on class lines as discussed upthread but not limited to them. Clothing styles, level of education or music tastes are much more to have bearing on how you're likely to identify than simple disctinctions like class. I think the middle classes are sneering at the 'otherness' of chav culture rather than purely its working-class roots. It's like the start of rock'n'roll, or mods and rockers. All groups seem to need another group they can villify and define themselves in opposition to.
One last point wrt class though - has anyone else notices the amount of middle-class chavs these days? I work in a college and let me tell you, nearly every kid I see has the chav-style, it's crossed well beyond the maligned working-classes now. Do others agree with this statement, and if so, where does this leave the great class-debate of three-years ago? |
