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Mark Millar from another perspective.

 
  

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moriarty
00:12 / 28.01.03
Millar may also be writing just for the sake of doing something different than comic scripts, where he has more control of the final product and can do just about any kind of fluff he wants. Maybe he's just scratching an itch. I'm the same way with my blog, and I imagine many people here do the same thing, writing something for a hobby.

Concerning the original essay, I found his breakdown of writing and art in comics to be the most distressing part. I can undeerstand why it hasn't been brought up here, seeing as Barbelith is a very writer-centric message board. If I were asked to name my favourite comics, I have little doubt that at least 4 out of 5 of those comics would be written and drawn by the same person, and I am being very generous in that estimate. The same could be said for favourite creators (living or dead). Millar names two "superhuman creatures", Miller and Eisner, as examples of people who can both write and draw well. I don't see them as writer and/or artist. I would say that this is a third option, the cartoonist. All other things being equal, I think a cartoonist has a better chance of creating great comics than a writer/artist team does, and I believe the history of the artform would prove my point.
 
 
some guy
00:20 / 28.01.03
But in what sense do we define "working"?

"Working" is the opposite of what Warren Ellis does, judging from the past year or so.

All other things being equal, I think a cartoonist has a better chance of creating great comics than a writer/artist team does, and I believe the history of the artform would prove my point.

I would disagree - most of the truly great comics don't come from a single voice. We can start with Alan Moore and work downward...
 
 
Graeme McMillan
00:37 / 28.01.03
"I would disagree - most of the truly great comics don't come from a single voice. We can start with Alan Moore and work downward..."

Aaaaand the thread goes off-topic again. Maybe we should start a new thread for this?
 
 
some guy
01:09 / 28.01.03
Aaaaand the thread goes off-topic again.

As Moriarty points out, this was the subject of Millar's essay. This could be "another perspective" on Millar, and the topic abstract says fuck all as I type this...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:10 / 28.01.03
It's funny, I don't seem to remember Jimmy Page or Robert Plant going on about 'faggots' and anal rape a whole lot in any of their interviews over the years. In fact, I'm kinda hardpressed to think of much hate speach spewed by either of them. Maybe you've got them confused with Axl Rose or something...
 
 
Graeme McMillan
01:21 / 28.01.03
LLB: "the topic abstract says fuck all as I type this"

Fair enough. Though the importance of cartoonists to writer/artist teams seems to be less to do with just Mark Millar and more of a general comics topic, but that's just me...
 
 
some guy
01:41 / 28.01.03
Smile - it's a good topic for a new thread if you're being sincere. I thought you were just being snarky! :-)
 
 
BryanDude
01:45 / 28.01.03
"BryanDude: That's my impression as well. But just because the hatred is institutionalized, or reflexive, doesn't mean we shouldn't call it what it is: hatred."

Yeah, i forgot to add one more sentence to my post. That Mark Millar should know better than to let those kind of responses be realeased on a public forum. Which probably leads to another theory that Mark Millar intentionally put those remarks there to either A: drum up name recognition from those who would find his remarks offensive (like here) and B: That he's using those remarks as a colloquialism to make some kind of connection between him and all those middle american fanboys who use those terms as well. either way he's a dick. Im american so i use america as my reference point. Damn my capitalist running dog ways.

To Runce: Yeah thats right, everybody gang up on the American. Can't a guy have just one big lebowski reference?
 
 
--
03:28 / 28.01.03
either that or maybe he's just an asshole. I never met the guy in real life so I can't comment.

Frankly I tend to veer away from the whole "rock star" persona unless it's being used in an ironic way. Most "rock stars" I don't like at all.

Hell, I'm not even that fond of rock period.
 
 
--
03:36 / 28.01.03
personally, I don't mind this thread at all. I've seen so many messageboards on-line that are full of the kind of language Mark Miller was called up on and no one raised an eyebrow. At least here the people are a little more questioning...

while I'm against the idea of PC, at the same time if you're going to be PC-incorrect I feel there should at least be some kind of, I dunno, reason. I mean, what was the point of him saying "cock-smoking faggots"? If he was just doing it to be un-PC, so many people are using language like that right now it's the latest trend, almost like a fad. Really, it's always been politically correct to put homosexuals down, and the government and media do it on a daily basis (then again obviously my opinion is biased). I mean, if I was a comic book writer/artist I wouldn't just post something like "Hey, all you child-molesting, bible-christians!" just to be un-PC (hell, my Mom is Christian).
 
 
Ethan Van Sciver
05:28 / 28.01.03
I'll be horribly honest. According to Millar, I'm a 'cock smoking faggot', because I'm one of the artists who labors too long on a page and never quite gets what he actually was hoping for down. Does this mean I have to give fellatio to men? I'll draw faster and be contented then.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:53 / 28.01.03
Hey, does fellatio make you a faster and more accurate artist? This could change the face of modern comics. Meanwhile, the Thunder has spoken:

someone emailed me about this the other day and I had a quick skim through and they're entitled to their opinion, but it really doesn't interest me much. They're not really the kind of people who read my stuff and, like all creators, you're going to get a certain percentage of readers who just find you objectionable. That's just the way it is and you're best not reading every area of the internet because you're always going to find people bitching about you SOMEWHERE.

What strikes me as odd is this idea that I've created a PERSONA as such for interviews and columns. I don't create personas. I just write the way I talk and think at a particular period in time. Why create a fictional personality when you can just write from your own POV? I don't understand where Smile and people like that are coming from when they're relentlessly talking about personas. I'm too LAZY for that shit.

But, like I said, I really don't mind their opinions because I don't read their boards. Not everyone is for everyone. If they're offended by my language or phrases (and I have no intention of limiting my vocabularly for anyone) then they're entitled to hang around with their own people and talk about stuff they like. No offence taken.


Which is polite, and pleasant, and probably disingenuous, of course, because Millar-as-sales-construct has to be considered throughout the whole enterprise, unless he's just writing the comics he loves and if the kids love them too that's a bonus. Of course, it's possible that this hasn't occurred to him, or that he has worked it through in a far more involved way than he felt like sharing on the board.

Interesting to see that once again the right to call people cocksmoking faggots is defended as a sort of wagon-circling against evil forces who wish to circumscribe our freedom to use English...I'm not sure that I see anyone campaigning here to prevent by force the use of "faggot" as an attempt at male bonding (why, if straight men weren't allowed to impute in a light-hearted way that their straight friends liked to hammer guys, where would our social structures be?), which is the bit that those brave anti-PC legions seem to struggle with understanding (also, as Sypha Nadon points out, if you're in a pub or a standard workplace it's far more "politically correct" to go along with the David Brent banter). A lesser man might also have a giggle at the staunch defence of the freedom to use our beautiful language presented as a refusal to allow anyone to limit their "vocabularly", but I'm sure that would just be cheap.
 
 
Ethan Van Sciver
08:15 / 28.01.03
"Does fellatio make you a faster and more accurate artist?"

Not so far.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:44 / 28.01.03
My backhand has improved little, either. I'm beginning to think that my House Captain lied to me...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:30 / 28.01.03
Anyone interested in emailing Millar to find out whether he calls people cocksmokers in a 'gay as the new bad' way or 'gay people are evil perverts' way? And give him bonus points for trying to turn his reply almost immediately into 'this is all about restricting my freedom of speech'.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:36 / 28.01.03
I think the point is that "gay is the new bad" gay has nothing to do with "sexing up people with the same naughties as you" gay. Unless you're toksik, in which case being gay is like being hot. In the city. Tonight.

As such, I think "cocksmoking" has to refer to same naughties gay, but is of course not necessarily being used in a pejorative sense...
 
 
Graeme McMillan
16:34 / 28.01.03
"There is no persona... There is no persona... Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

Considering the frequency of his comics, there's an humour to Mark saying that he's too lazy to come up with a persona, don't you think? Or maybe I'm alone in that...

Nice to see a vague return to "They're trying to stop me saying what they want", with just a wee hint of "They're not my fans, so I don't have to listen to their criticisms", as well. Still, I'm glad that it didn't end up erupting into a Millarworld versus Barbelith thing, which was what I was afraid of when Duncan posted his message.

And LLB: No sarkiness, I was being genuine. I'd start the thread m'self if I wasn't at work and only posting messages sneakily.

Hmm. This post is rather stop-and-start. I feel like I'm Yawn or something.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:29 / 28.01.03
"They're not my fans", huh?

He hasn't read the Ultimates threads here, obviously.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
18:14 / 28.01.03
Well, the general consensus here isn't "Go Mark! Fuck man, you rock!" so maybe that's what he's upset about.

Fuck Warren Ellis; Mark Millar is the new George Dubya: You're either with him or against him.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:51 / 28.01.03
"I just wanna be loved for who I aaaaaaaaaaaam! Is that so wrong?!?"
 
 
some guy
19:32 / 28.01.03
Mark Millar is the new George Dubya: You're either with him or against him.

Can't we just ignore him, and secretly buy The Ultimates?
 
 
Char Aina
22:30 / 28.01.03
are words that powerful?



i have called my friends cocksuckers and variations upon it.

i have also sucked cock.



i think you are giving it all too much weight. i think it was said to someone trying to make work a better place, over in the magic forum, and it should be said again.

you have given them the power to hurt you. you can take it away.
 
 
Char Aina
22:35 / 28.01.03
Unless you're toksik, in which case being gay is like being hot. In the city. Tonight.



unless you are haus. in which case I give you the power to go and hurt yourself. and i will never take it away.

i mean, what?
huh? are you calling me to arms?
trying to come to terms with being attracted to me?
wrestling with new ideas of what it means to be a man?

you dont get me.
i dont like you.

can we leave it at that, mr "haus that is guarded by an intellectual sawn-off shotgun and a rabid whippet of lexical ability"?

or will you feel the need to further your strange and strangely pointless slander?
 
 
some guy
22:49 / 28.01.03
Aigh! Mark Millar, what have you wrought?!
 
 
Mr Tricks
23:01 / 28.01.03
the Thunder has spoken:
Could someone post a link to the thred where MM made that statement... For those of us too lazy to surf the Millar world forums...

tanks . . .
 
 
Graeme McMillan
23:05 / 28.01.03
"Could someone post a link to the thred where MM made that statement... For those of us too lazy to surf the Millar world forums..."

Follow the link that hunky funky Duncy Falconer posted on the last page of this thread and work forward from there...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:46 / 29.01.03
Really, toksik, you are taking yourself far too seriously. You said something very silly, I'm making a joke about it. You would have to be very self-regarding and very dim not to realise and appreciate this. Are you very self-regarding and very dim? If so, please feel free to rot the thread further. There aren't enough moderators to stop you very effectively. Otherwise, might I suggest that you take the joke?

(Incidentally, slander is when defamatory and untrue statements are made in an impermanent medium, such as speech. If I had defamed you, it would probably count as libel. Since I can provide a direct quote where you associate being gay with being hot, it is neither)
 
 
Ganesh
10:18 / 29.01.03
It's getting gay in herre... so take off all your clothes...
 
 
Char Aina
16:00 / 29.01.03
the threadrot was started by you.
i dont mind if people i like take the piss out of me, but its not a very good way to start being my friend.
i dont like the aproach you take on this board, and as a result, i dont actually like you. this is why i take it "far too seriously", i think you are nothing to me, and i would like you to stay that way. or at the very least, try to be my friend a lot more slowly.

"You would have to be very self-regarding and very dim not to realise and appreciate this"


and fuck you very much for your consideration.
seriously, that was the equivalent of saying 'only stupid people think x', a playground piece of sadness if ever i saw it.


i am aware that slander and libel are the terms to be used for speech and print, and i am also aware of the textual nature of this board.

that said, i still like saying slander. so go fuck yourself.


please, as moderator, feel free to delete anything i say, and also, once again, to go fuck yourself.
 
 
some guy
16:16 / 29.01.03
"Can't we all just get along?"
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:03 / 29.01.03
Seems unlikely. I'm loving the way that, although I am nothing to Toxie, he has spent the last hour carefully and one-fingeredly (well, why else the impossibility of the shift key) tapping in a lengthy cri de coeur. Looks like self-regarding and dim wins, eh?
 
 
Char Aina
17:26 / 29.01.03
i touch type. i dont like capital letters, they are slightly pointless at the beginning of a sentence, and to not use them is to save them for when they can be useful.

nothing to me, like shit on my shoe.


if its not like you, and you cant think why, it must be wrong, eh?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:12 / 29.01.03
I would just like to say that capitalization of letters at the beginning of sentences is NOT pointless, and the "I don't like the way grammar looks so I make up my own rules" shtick very seldom works for anyone unless they happen to be brilliant eccentrics. I think it is pretty safe to say that you're probably not on the same level as Prince or e.e. cummings, so maybe you should rethink this along with the way you're overreacting to Haus' relatively harmless joke at your expense. It's still January, so you can still try out a New Year's resolution: develop a sense of humor about yourself.
 
 
some guy
18:57 / 29.01.03
Threadrot:

the "I don't like the way grammar looks so I make up my own rules" shtick very seldom works for anyone unless they happen to be brilliant eccentrics

Sez you.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
21:35 / 29.01.03
back on topic:

'yeah toksik, get in line, mutherfucka!!!!'
 
  

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