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I'm not so keen on the idea of specific trolling; for instance, I find the idea (harmony) of someone specifically going to an event purely to disagree with it leaves a little bit of a sour taste in my mouth. My own position with my moderate amount of faith is most confused and troublesome; I don't think any Christian needs rampant non-believers lobbing broad, undermining questions at them. Why the sour taste? Well, I appreciate what you're saying about body language, but the fact is, he/she is not entering into discussion with an open mind. He/she is entering into argument, and with an agenda. If he/she went along to a homosexual group, say, and (from an entirely non-religious perspective) told them they were wrong/bad/whatever, we'd call it gay-bashing. No matter what the body language was. But it's OK to do it to belief groups? Because you're only attacking someone's philosophy, not their body? Please. Most good members of a faith don't go along to other faiths meetings to cry them down. The most obvious targets are the atheists... simply because in so many of them, there's no thought. Just denial. I'm not aruging that that's the case in everyone, and your housemate seems to have enough strongly-formed ideas that he feels confident enough to try and sway people, but he/she's an exception, not a rule. A question: does he/she enjoy it? It's most likely that neither side is going to change their opinion at all, and the Christians are going to get more heated than your housemate. And so at the end of it, he's spent an hour or two more-likely provoking confusion and anger than intruiging questions and maybe rocking people's spiritual foundations. What does he come out of it with? He knew what he knew when he went in; he doesn't sound like he's going to shift. So I can only assume he/she gets off on it. That's what I find distasteful, and I don't care how pleasantly he puts it, or what his body language is.
"If you have an omnipotent God, why argue with him?" What, so discussion isn't allowed? What's prayer? It certainly isn't just asking God for favours, or telling God how much you like him. It's a means of interaction. Arguing with God is as essential as arguing with your own beliefs; you have to have questioned to come to an answer.
Am I christian? I'd guess so. I believe something rather than nothing, and that something is something of Christianity, coming from a relatively-Christian upbringing and ten years of singing in Anglican church choirs, most Sundays of the year. There are some fundamental aspects of the faith I have severe problems with, and that's where my belief falls apart. But there's a lot of good advice in its belief, there's a lot of inspiration, and for me, the artwork Christianity inspired is good enough reason to believe. The sung liturgy is wonderful; I find it loses some impact spoken. I find it interesting as a philosophy and approach to life; I often find worship less inspirational than I guess I should. The same with other faiths, I guess; but my upbringing has brought me into contact with it most.
I have a problem with people getting me into religious arguments because I know I'm not entirely well read on the subject, I know I'm probably hypocritical at times, and I know I have holes in my armour. That's why I get worked up about it - because my answer isn't 100% sure. But it was never going to be; it's not trivia, or general knowledge; it's big questions you're asking here. Christians have been dealing with "if your God is a loving God, why does he let Good People die?" for hundreds of years now. Faith was never meant to be easy; to my mind, if you don't have any questions, or things that trouble you, or just little bits you don't believe in - then you're clearly not doing it right and just being led by others. I don't need someone else to point it out to me. In fact, the most offensive people I've ever met WRT whatever you believe in are my University Christian Union people. They mug you outside lecture halls with leaflets. A lot of the time, they confront people and ask them about God and the say they don't believe or care, so go away. If they confront me, I also tell them to go away. My faith is my own business. I don't believe the way they do, and I don't have a desire to share. And I definitely don't want to convert anybody. That's just foolish, to think you can brainwash people. But nor do I want anyone to question what I believe: partly, as harmony says, because I'm weak I guess. But also because they seem to think that I've never asked those questions myself. I have to ask them all the time.
So yes. I'm a semi-Christian mish-mash. I like the music. I love the writing. The scriptures are variable - haven't read enough, but there's some great stuff in there. I have severe difficulties with the Eucharist though. Which is why I'm not confirmed, and never really can be. I've read the christianity.com thread in relative detail now, and I have no problem with Ganesh's so-called trolling; it's not really trolling because he's not seeking (in the end, however long it takes) to cause offence; he's seeking (in the end, however long it takes) to get an answer or at least a sensible discussion. His persistence has a genuinely worthy goal. With hindsight, maybe he didn't pick the right place to do it, but that thread makes for interesting reading. This thread... makes me tense and shaky. Perhaps even 'sad', as exp rightly put it. I'm all for sensible discussion; I'm all for learning about this - I don't think I'm ever going to come to terms with my faith, and I don't think I'll ever explain my halfway-house position to anyone without losing the fucking argument - but I just find that negativity directed specifically towards religion, any religion, but usually Christianity, makes me disappointed. Disappointed that one aspect of life gets so much stick. I have never investigated this, but I think that far more time is devoted to bashing/intimidating/being rude/supposedly being "clever" towards Christians than is towards any other faith. That's a general observation - I've stemmed way off from this thread. So in general, I just keep my mouth shut on the topic. Every now and then... I have a chance to get something out. And if I'm asked to pick sides, I'll side with the religious, even if half the christians I've met piss me off hugely at times. I'm christian. Small c. I may not be firm in it, but that's in many ways, the point.
(Apologies for huge rambling answer. It just came out, and I guess I needed it out. I hope no-one takes offence; none was intended. But it's a subject that does get me fired up, when the right people to discuss it are around. Calm now.) |
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