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Adventures in Christian fundamentalism

 
  

Page: 1234(5)67

 
 
Ganesh
21:09 / 14.11.02
Nah, it's back now. Someone's taking the piss, though...
 
 
Cherry Bomb
21:13 / 14.11.02
'Nesh, you are right about Missy78 being "frankly scary." She's worked as a counselor for women and couples!?!?" Oy, those poor people.

(Just perusing one of the many feminist threads over there)
 
 
Ganesh
21:18 / 14.11.02
Missy78 seems to have a particularly virulent hatred of homosexuals (as well as homosexuality) - and you must remember that "feminist" - along with "liberal" and "agnostic" - is a 'bad word' over on ChristianBBS.

Amusingly, they're already calling for 'Osama bin Laden' to be "reported to the FBI" - and, not being possessed of a terribly sophisticated sense of humour, I don't think they're joking...
 
 
Cherry Bomb
21:24 / 14.11.02
That said, lynmoon is pretty cool:

Now men holding doors, putting jackets over mudpuddles, treating women like Christmas ornaments, etc. has little to do with the feminist movement or real life either. If one wants to do that or wants that done, that is fine. But it is a blessing to know that if suddenly that man decides that he is tired of treating you like that and don't want to feed you no more, you can feed yourself.

Nice one!
 
 
Ganesh
21:32 / 14.11.02
Oh, there are plenty of reasonable people there - it's taken me a while to realise that, but it's true - and even the unreasonable ones are generally happy to engage in a well-mannered discussion. Unfortunately, I think the site's administrators are a) overtly biased (repeatedly gate-crashing discussions to applaud the 'approved' viewpoint and censor/delete the 'dangerous; one), and b) ridiculously skittish (tend to close threads when they feel the discussion's getting even vaguely contentious ie. interesting). I don't think they're particularly reflective of the majority of posters there.

Looks like 'Al Quaida' has gone to ground - but not before a little fevered speculation as to his "poor upbringing"...
 
 
the Fool
21:46 / 14.11.02
I just had one of my post deleted! I feel all special.

In the 'witnessing to a gay friend' thread I posted a comment that basically the choice these people are giving gayfolk is castration versus a posibility (just a posibility) of happiness with a guy/girl/somewhere in between but with added religious and societial condemnation.

Not much of a choice.

The post didn't last long.
 
 
The Strobe
22:26 / 14.11.02
Unfortunately, I think the site's administrators are a) overtly biased (repeatedly gate-crashing discussions to applaud the 'approved' viewpoint and censor/delete the 'dangerous; one), and b) ridiculously skittish (tend to close threads when they feel the discussion's getting even vaguely contentious ie. interesting). I don't think they're particularly reflective of the majority of posters there.

I could sum this up quite easily by saying "Fritz is a cock", which I'd originally deleted from my previous post, but am more convinced of by the second. Because, you know, he is.
 
 
w1rebaby
22:29 / 14.11.02
I think Fritz (one of the moderators) is exceeding even his high standards on this thread... perhaps he could do with some calming fudge?
 
 
Ganesh
23:15 / 14.11.02
'Fraid I didn't pack Fritz's fudge...

There's an odd, rather jarring aspect to Fritz's moderating of homosexuality-related threads. On the one hand, he's excessively censorious and jumpy around anyone else's (especially my) take on the subject; on the other, he doesn't exactly shy away from raising the topic again and again himself - not merely as subject matter (he's started two virtually identical 'how do I change a gay person' threads in the last fortnight alone) but also within the structure of the community itself. Homosexuality receives special attention in the invidious (and infinitely elastic) Terms of Service and Fritz appears to have created a whole new category of thread - the 'U-Help' series in which the moderators have extra power to weed out unwelcome contributions - the first example of which was a discussion of *ta-dah!* homosexuality.

It's interesting that Fritz in particular and the board in general has become so fixated on matters poofsome. In a way, it probably reflects the way homosexuality is gradually creeping to the fore within Christianity (and British society) as a whole...
 
 
w1rebaby
23:22 / 14.11.02
The simple rule seems to be: discussion of homosexuality is okay, as long as that discussion says it's bad. There's a definite obsession with the issue - it suddenly turned up in a thread about alcoholism on the Current Events forum, for instance.

If the proverbial alien turned up and read ChristianBBS.com, would it decide that Christianity was about hating gays?

The odd thing is that I've had no trouble from Fritz for being obviously anti-Israeli-government-actions, even though he's posted threads himself that are pro. There just seems to be something about gay issues that he doesn't like.

(Hey, let's psychoanalyse someone we've never met! It's fun, kids!)
 
 
Ganesh
23:41 / 14.11.02
Well, on the one hand it's against the Terms of Service to revel openly in the "fact" that homosexuals are gonna spitroast in Hell (mmm... spitroast...) - but it's also against the Terms of Service to say it's "acceptable" to be gay (because this counts as "promoting the homosexual lifestyle" blah blah pishcakes). Within these parameters, I (presumably by dint of my status as a known homosexualist) was warned by Fritz that I mustn't get involved in on-board debates on homosexuality - yet my one attempt at taking discussion off the board into email resulted in my exclusion.

Considering the web of restrictions within which discussion of homosexuality must operate, there's something slightly bizarre/gratifying/predictable about the way the subject keeps springing up, dandelion-like...
 
 
Lurid Archive
23:46 / 14.11.02
For all the family. Hmmm.

When I first saw your posts there, Ganesh, I did think that you were being a touch troll-like. But, on reflection, that is rather unfair to the people who genuinely want to be friendly. What you have clearly done is really got under the skin of Fritz. He must be a touch obssessive and have very strong views about homosexuality. It doesn't really tally with the "all sins are equal" line.

To be honest, I don't really get where he and others are coming from. Its one thing to think that homosexuality is a sin. Not a good thing, but I can see how that fits with christianity. Its quite another to have such a special fervour about it. Anyone want to run with the psychoanalytical ball?
 
 
Ganesh
00:03 / 15.11.02
I'm not sure if the "fervour" comes from Fritz himself (it's he who writes - and rewrites - the Terms of Service) or from the mysterious, presumably dotcom-wealthy "superiors" to whom he alludes. What is apparent is that no other moderator seems to be as sensitised to the subject as Fritz: this observation is based on my cordial, even mildly flirtatious PM interactions with at least three other CBBS moderators, and the fact that my latest "violations" have generally not been picked up for days-to-weeks afterwards, suggesting that Fritz hasn't exactly been inundated with outraged posters jamming his Report Offensive Post hotline.

In retrospect, Lurid, I actually agree with your assessment of my early posts. Having experienced only Barbelith and FadeToBlack (and Mordant's board ) I was ridiculously naive about the degree to which other message-boards are moderated. Seeing the usual threads on homosexuality, masturbation, etc. I jumped straight in with posts on fetishism (sadly, no-one engaged with the question 'is fetishism within a heterosexual marriage sinful?') and clarification of the "homosexual lifestyle" (an essentially meaningless phrase which never fails to raise my hackles and which, to my intense irritation, is still widespread on CBBS) - which, not surprisingly, quickly led to my being booted from the board.

I like to think I was latterly a good bit more diverse, less of a one-issue poster. The damage was done, though: other posters and moderators may have accepted me as 'more than a troll' but I'm pretty sure Fritz treated every subsequent post with suspicion, if not outright hostility.

It's been a useful experiment in terms of exploring my own motivations, particularly where they verge on 'troll-like'. Why do I get such a kick out of quickfire debate with zealots? Why, even within that environment, is it so important for me to appear 'reasonable' to onlookers? What's behind my drive to find common ground with "people who don't care if I live or die"?

Hmm. Uncomfortable.
 
 
Ganesh
00:19 / 15.11.02
Oh yeah, and it probably didn't help that I emailed Fritz specifically to register my disapproval of (what I saw as) his biased and irresponsible moderation of the 'Homosexual Life Expectancy' and 'Condoms & HIV' threads within the Health forum. This was probably a deeply foolish thing to do in terms of reducing my own 'life expectancy' but his enthusiastic endorsement of one methodologically-flawed (and dangerously 'spun') discursive viewpoint and heavy editing of less 'massaged' data really triggered my snippy 'science should have no agenda' reflex...
 
 
Lurid Archive
00:19 / 15.11.02
Fritz isn't the only one with a claim to obssessive behaviour. And why should he be?

I completely understand the urge to explore your agnosticism and homosexuality is bound to be a big issue when dealing with christianity. As for arguing with zealots, I do that a fair bit myself when I talk to creationists. There is a strange appeal in confronting someone whose opinions you so strongly disagree with. Perhaps there is something cathartic in engaging in a argument that makes you fume? And there is always the hope that in finding common ground with someone, that you manage to soften them a little.

Were you trying to "save" them Ganesh? hehehe.

Having read a lot of your posts on CBBS, I thought that your reasonable style was a mixture of courtesy and a debating tactic. Its harder to dismiss someone who is polite and you are left with a moral victory when you are unfairly treated. Controlled aggression perhaps.
 
 
Lurid Archive
00:29 / 15.11.02
I did think that the blatant bias on the health threads gave a particularly negative impression of christianity. Christianity need not be as blind as that, even the quite conservative flavours. I think the motivation must be quite interesting if it can drive such clumsy propoganda. Did you find out anything about the shadowy figures in the background?
 
 
Ganesh
00:31 / 15.11.02
Oh yeah, absolutely - and one I've honed in psychiatry, where the 'I accept that that's true for you' line is often the most productive way to go. I'm pretty used to pursuing a polite-but-dogged line with extreme-but-essentially-reasonable people, and I like finding common ground, even when it's the agreement to disagree.

"Saving" them? Heh! If, as a result of enjoying a friendly online debate with a real live homosexual even one person became even a little kinder toward homosexuals (if not homosexuality) in general, I'd consider my time well-spent. I'm afraid, though, that for many of the ChristianBBS posters, there is no life before death...
 
 
Ganesh
00:37 / 15.11.02
(Last post directed at Lurid's "controlled aggression" question, obviously.)

No, I didn't find out anything about Fritz's backers, but then I wasn't particularly interested; conspiracy theories irritate me slightly, and I'm not that obsessed with ChristianBBS. Someone on the board alluded to Christianity.com being quite a profitable enterprise, though.

I felt particularly protective toward the Health threads because I saw the forum as 'my' stamping ground; also, I'm trained in Critical Assessment of research methodology, and the skewed reporting of relatively 'neutral' research findings seriously grated - particularly where, as with the "ineffectiveness" of condoms, the 'spun' message has potentially dangerous consequences...
 
 
the Fool
01:08 / 15.11.02
Did you find out anything about the shadowy figures in the background?

Is the Exodus group the ones that claim to make gayfolk straight? If so, they are a major contributor to Christianity.com and could be these 'shadowy figures'. Having people post biblically based evidence that homosexuality might not be as condemned as they believe cannot be good for their bottom line...
 
 
Ganesh
01:15 / 15.11.02
Ahhh... basis for a healthy conspiracy there, methinks...
 
 
Ganesh
12:28 / 15.11.02
[Paltrow] I just *snff* want to *stifled sob* thank you all, it's *tears stream*... it's just so... *projectile saline, heaving bosom*... just so... WAAAAAAAAHH!! [/Paltrow]

Could you do the 'standing on chairs' thing, though, guys? If it's good enough for Robin Williams...
 
 
grant
13:16 / 15.11.02
Should I do this?



from here.
 
 
grant
13:29 / 15.11.02
I wonder if they've got the steel to ban a pastor....
 
 
Ganesh
13:55 / 15.11.02
He looks as if he's actually constructed from fudge...
 
 
Ganesh
15:01 / 15.11.02
Ol' Fritz is losing control it over in the 'Homosexuality... Food For Thought' thread. Something tells me that, with characteristic literalness, he's about to banish Science...
 
 
grant
15:13 / 15.11.02
...and, apparently, logic as well.
 
 
Ganesh
15:37 / 15.11.02
Logic left the building long ago.
 
 
Ganesh
16:21 / 15.11.02
Must admit, the drama queen in me is absolutely loving this. It's a little like witnessing my own (surprisingly but gratifyingly lavish) funeral - but remaining able to influence events...
 
 
Ganesh
16:40 / 15.11.02
And another - albeit a rather short-lived one...

Do please forgive my shamelessly self-indulgent linking to my own (mostly) good 'reviews'. I genuinely didn't expect anyone on ChristianBBS to give much of a damn about my tussles with Fritz, and I find myself surprisingly touched that at least some remember me fondly. It's nice to see that generosity of spirit isn't dead on ChristianBBS...

"They like me! They really like me!"

*curtseys pretend-modestly, in shower of rose petals*
 
 
grant
17:29 / 15.11.02
Sometimes I wonder if there was as much queer-talkin' before you got there, 'nesh.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
18:22 / 15.11.02
I'm off to widen the doorway so the divine Miss Paltrow can get her swollen head through when ze comes home.

I was wondering whom Fritz reminded me of in the photo until Ganesh reminded me of Anthony Gormley's Field where there were hundreds of little Fritzes with their wilfully blinded eyes and stony hearts.
 
 
grant
18:56 / 15.11.02
I've noticed JefferyWilliamson and Hawthorne have registered here today.
If you're reading this, Hi folks!
( Confusingly [or maybe not], there's someone named "fridgemagnet" on the CBBS, now, too. )

Hope the heterogenousness here isn't *too* offensive or overwhelming. There are some old Bible study threads in the Head Shop, which I'm sure you'll have *some* opinion on, and a few discussions of Christianity (admittedly verging on - or just plain crossing over into - the heretical) in The Magick. Feel free to comment on anything - disagreements are welcome, as long as they're respectful. Well, actually, now that I think of it, often being *lucid* seems to be more valued than being *respectful*, but that (like everything else) is up for debate.
The only Terms of Service here, as far as I know, are don't give Tom any hassles, as far as bandwidth wasteage and possible legal problems. (Meaning, don't start 50 threads about where you're selling your cocaine - not a problem for y'all, I'd imagine.) He's our absolute ruler, because he made this and pays all the bills.
 
 
Ganesh
19:07 / 15.11.02
(Yes, it's the same Fridgemagnet...)
 
 
Lurid Archive
01:54 / 16.11.02
*stands on desk*

I think it is digusting that Ganesh has been treated so shabbily. I'd like to complain to the moderators here... ooops, wrong board.

Note to ZoCher: I don't think this level of adulation can be good for an elephant god.
Next thing you know, that anatomically correct fimo statue I made of him will start drinking milk.
 
 
JeffreyWilliamson
02:35 / 16.11.02
Well, well, well. Hello everyone.

I see we have a little pic up above us of our chief CBBS mod. And just what is that little guy doing in that little pic, eh? It's funny, but after all of the bannings and harsh tones on the part of Fritz I imagined him as being bigger somehow...

I wonder if these mysterious bosses of his are really a facade he is hiding behind in order to build up his own self-esteem and position. Perhaps he keeps alluding to these individuals so that his various actions over at the CBBS come from some kind of authority, because somewhere in his own mind he is weak and small somehow. I wonder if we could make a case psychologically for that? I bet we could, since although he claims that he communicates with his superiors over policy, etc., it is obvious that he acts very much alone in pretty much everything--from banning to warning to writing the terms of service.

Oh, in case you are interested, the TOS at the CBBS is now pretty much a direct copy of the TOS at the previous board he was Mod at. I happened upon it in my travels, recognized the name, and ventured in to see some of his posts. Apparently, he wrote their TOS as well--with identical homosexual postings clauses. So I am pretty sure that there are no mysterious superiors but rather just Fritz, young and eager to force others to follow his own personal feelings about others.

By the way, my name is Jeffrey Williamson. Although I did post over at the CBBS for a bit, I left recently when Ganesh and another fellow by the name of Icebrc were banned. I could no longer post there in good spirits knowing that two decent fellows that had a lot of great and interesting things to say had been banned for no good reason.

Although I posted at the CBBS, I am not a Christian. I am a Secular Humanist, and became a member there for the educational experience. I found that, while Christianity might have some things going for it, (Compassion, etc.), it has a lot against it, (stoning disrespectful children to death in the streets, etc.). While it was interesting to talk to everyone there and hear their opinions, something about adding an anti-independent thinking Sr. Mod turned me off of the place real fast.

So, here I am, Sam.
 
  

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