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Angel -- Season Four

 
  

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gridley
19:46 / 16.07.02
I must warn you that this message contains spoilers.

Big, beautiful, marvelous spoilers that will make you happy all throughout your insides... I promise.

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WB's Angel told SCI FI Wire that old friends may return and things could get darker before they get lighter as the vampire series enters its fourth season. Co-creator Joss Whedon said in an interview that he's talked with Eliza Dushku about returning as bad-girl Slayer Faith next year and that he also wants to bring back the vampire Drusilla, played by Juliet Landau if her schedule allows. And in a major spoiler for the upcoming season, Whedon hinted that viewers can expect to see the return of Angelus, the evil version of Angel (David Boreanaz).

"Juliet Landau, is somebody else that I think we're probably going to try to woo back again this year," Whedon said at The WB's fall preview. "But again, nothing is set. We never know exactly where these people are at. We have to hunt them down. I've actually spoken with Eliza. ... It's really the question of, will they have the schedule? And this year it may work out. I really hope it does. Because she's such an extraordinary presence."

Regular cast members Andy Hallett (Lorne) and Charisma Carpenter (Cordelia) return, joined by new cast member Vincent Kartheiser (Connor). Cordelia, who ascended into a higher plane of existence, will come back to Earth. "That's a mystery that I must not answer, only to say that she will," Whedon said.

Co-star Alexis Denisof, whose character, Wesley, flirted with the dark side at the end of last season, told SCI FI Wire that Wesley will find himself on an even darker journey this year. "That was the beginning of Wesley kind of finding other colors and other dynamics, and that carried on through the end of the season, and now this year we're really going to take that and go with it and twist it even tighter, that knot," Denisof said in an interview. "So he will be light, but he will also be dark. And it will be a good counterpoint to what's going on with Angel. ... They will reflect each other in their journeys a little bit, through light and dark. ... Pretty dark. Yeah, they've got some crazy ideas. The first show is just nuts. It's just so exciting. There are so many twists and turns, and every scene you think you know what's going to happen, and it's just like, bam! You get the uppercut."

Even the lovable character of Fred, played by Amy Acker, may find her life getting complicated, Acker told SCI FI Wire. "It seems like that Gunn [J. August Richards] and I are still pretty happy. ... But Joss always says that happy couples are boring. So ... we've been happy for kind of a long time, so I'm guessing something bad is going to happen to him. But I don't know. They really keep us in the dark, because I guess they know that we're going to tell everyone." Angel airs in its new timeslot, Sundays at 9 p.m. ET/PT, in the fall.
 
 
Mazarine
11:58 / 17.07.02
Joss always says that happy couples are boring.

-Grumbles-
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:28 / 17.07.02
Well he's certainly not wrong about Gunn and Fwed. They have about as much chemistry as - sorry, Americans - Zoe & Dr Truman in Eastenders.

You know who Gunn needs to get with, seeing as it's obviously ben decided that he can't have Wesley (and I'd argue that's what drove Wes to the darkside, not being able to speak the name of his love for his "man")?

Give you a clue - begins with an F...

This is all quite exciting.
 
 
Saint Keggers
18:52 / 17.07.02
No No NO! Faith and Gunn? Never. Faith should be with Wesley. They should be a corrupting influence on each other...not evil, just chaotic. And they should bring back the cop who is now on Law & Order, at least for a few guest appearances.
 
 
gridley
19:19 / 17.07.02
Gotta admit, Wesley and Gunn were a damn cute couple...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:18 / 19.07.02
Yeah. I got all sulky when it became clear that they were going to be rivals.

"But what about all that build-up! There's sexual tension begging to be released here!"

No one listens to me.
 
 
gridley
17:12 / 15.08.02
so, lots going on behind the scenes at Angel Inc:

Three months ago, head producer David Greenwalt steps down from (or at least greatly reduces his involvement in) Angel to go work on some series for ABC called Miracles (a Catholic X-Files, I believe). Bad.

But he's replaced by David Simkins, creator of Freakylinks, a show I've never seen but heard good things about. Good.

But a few weeks ago, Simkins quit over creative differences. Bad.

Tim Minear and Jeffrey Bell (neither of whom I know) are kind of running things, but the absence of either Greenwalt or Simkins means (according to Minear) that Joss will take a bigger role in the series than he would have. So, that's good.

Then there's the Cordelia rumor mill...

Word (denied by Joss and Charisma) is that Charisma was having personal problems, and that's why Cordy went on that long vacation last summer. Fine, but the rumormongers say the problems aren't over and that Cordelia will have a diminished and continually diminishing role in the next season. That would be both bad and sad to me....
 
 
Trijhaos
17:30 / 15.08.02
Very little Cordelia? That's sad. I like Cordelia. I hope it's just a nasty rumor.

I read somewhere that pretty early in the season we're going to see the return of Angelus. No, no, no! Stop with the "Angel loses his soul, does bad things, friends help him get it back, he gets mopey" thing. It's trite. I mean, we've seen this happen, what, two or three times already? By this time, if I were Angel, I'd go to a magician, witch, or big bad-ass demon and say, "Look, I'm sick of losing my soul every time I get happy. Is there any way you can fix it so I don't lose my soul when I experience true happiness?"
 
 
gridley
20:24 / 15.08.02
Has it really happened more than once? Maybe I'm just spacing, but I only remember the big time....
 
 
Trijhaos
20:32 / 15.08.02
At least twice. There was the big time on Buffy when he went and killed Ms. Calender and was sent to hell and then there was the time on Angel where he did the nasty with Darla and went all evil again. I'm probably forgetting a time or two, but it's happened more than once.
 
 
gridley
21:02 / 15.08.02
no way! he didn't turn evil when he played naughty with Darla. I swear he didn't...
 
 
Trijhaos
21:13 / 15.08.02
Are you sure? I know he became Angelus, at least temporarily, during one of the previous seasons. Maybe it wasn't Darla. It's hard to remember what's happened on Angel since nobody is showing reruns of the first two seasons.
 
 
Seth
23:18 / 15.08.02
Angel didn't lose his soul when he slept with Darla, because it was a moment of perfect depair rather than perfect happiness. And you're almost right - there was an awful episode in the first season that should never have been made in which he's fed a drug akin to ecstacy which makes him so happy that he teeters on the brink... but it wears off. Yep, it really was that bad, and that's from an Angel fanboy.

So he's only turned into Angelus once during the time in which the narrative has been set, although of course he's been full on evil in the flashbacks. The rest of the time they've just played with his naturally dark, obsessive nature to varying degrees, which is much more interesting than the "have a soul=good/not have a soul=bad" stuff.

Saying that, this is my bet: I reckon Angel will get split in half this season. I've heard rumours that the first season prophecy about him becoming human will happen this season, and if Angelus is also returning it makes sense that he will be split in two, one into his soulful human side, the other into his soulless vampire side.

Finally: you'd have thought with all this hell dimension, heaven dimension, soul shenanigans stuf they'd realise that it's the perfect setting for a semi-shamanic ontology. The closest they've come is Angel's journey to the hellish dimension to ill-advisedly fight Skip to free Billy the Burning Man (a fairly text book soul retrieval, or as close as TV gets). This would have been so much more fulfilling (in a narrative sense) for Buffy's ressurection and the return of Spike's soul (imagine if Willow's powers had healed Buffy's decayed corpse, and they had to actually journey to heaven to persuade Buffy to come back). Damn, I should be a staff writer on these shows...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:30 / 15.08.02
A screaming hot battle between Angel and Angelus... whose side are you on?
 
 
Seth
23:33 / 15.08.02
It'll be like Superman vs Clark Kent in Superman III all over again (otherwise known as The Greatest Scene In Cinema History).

"You always wanted to fly, Kent. Now's your chance!"

Don't you see?
 
 
Trijhaos
23:47 / 15.08.02
Unfortunately, my memory of season one is very hazy. I only vaguely remember it. I remember Doyle being the best part of the season though. Too bad he died. I only got to see a few episodes of season two. I just don't like the reason for bringing back Angelus. They need a "Hannibal Lecter" to solve a mystery, so they're going to rip out Angel's soul so they get get Angelus' expertise? Great plan guys! Hope it all goes well for you.
 
 
Seth
00:03 / 16.08.02
Hold on. Is that the reason that Angelus is making a comeback? Or is that speculation?
 
 
Trijhaos
00:10 / 16.08.02
That's the reason Simkins gave. They could change it, I suppose. There's still time since new episodes don't start until October 6th.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:05 / 16.08.02
Well, I think this is the Film & TV Forum perfect place to start deriding ideas which haven't even been confirmed yet, let alone seen by us in their finished state. Why, it's almost a tradition round here!
 
 
gridley
13:10 / 16.08.02
Besides, one of us (cough... RUNCE!.. cough... ahem...) might secretly be Joss Whedon and, seeing the wisdom of our ideas, correct all his mistakes before he makes them...
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:28 / 18.10.02
I've started watching Angel now (in season 4) since I stopped waaay back when that killed my favorite character of all time Doyle! and I'm a bit confused.

One) These vampires seem really powerful compared to the Sunnydale vamps. Climbing up walls (ala Spiderman), leaping off of 6 story buildings... What's the deal? Or is this just a matter of bigger budget? And if it is, then why does angel have a bigger budget than Buffy?

Two) Is Conner a vampire? (I know he's the kid of two vampires but does that automatically make him a vampire?) I mean I've only seen him twice and he's got powers but I've never seen him do anything vampish. Like make his face all ugly and shit!
 
 
cusm
19:39 / 18.10.02
I think that's cause Buffy usually whacks them when they're fresh out of the dirt. Vampires are like cheese, they get smellier with age, and gain super powers.
 
 
Seth
22:57 / 18.10.02
Or maybe it's because Buffy attracts bumbling fuck-ups. It's certainly true of the script mistakes made with last season (jury's out on Seven til I've seen it).
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:59 / 05.11.02
Huge Spoilers ahoy...



So apparently this much would seem to be definite: 'The Beast' will rise from the centre of the earth in about two episodes time, an impossibly kick-ass unkillable bad guy who rains fire and brimstone across LA and is basically here to start the end of the world. Nobody stands a chance against him, and one rumour suggests that this is because he can hurt anyone with a soul. Aha!

So, whether for this reason or just because they need to figth fire with fire, the decision is made to unleash Angelus again (presumably this is Angel's own decision and will now doubt be a cause of much angst to others who may feel it is a very daft idea). His soul will be kept in some kind of crystal or jar, and Angelus will mostly be kept in a cage (yes, it *is* very Lecter...). Of course he escapes. And who gets the job of bringing him in? Faith.

Quite frankly, this sounds like my dream Angel plotline... And it's happening at just the right time in terms of what's happening with the other characters to make things really interesting - Cordy will ahve extreme angst to suffer for starters; same for Connor, who along with the rest of the 'good' characters (except Lorne) has demonstrated a darker side now and thus may be tempted by Angelus to indulge that (as of the latest episode to be shown, Gunn is now a murderer and Fred an accomplice: all of a sudden, those two are interesting...).

It's going to be fascinating which way the dice fall. My money's on at least one major casualty for Angel's team this season: whether that means dead, undead or just evil...
 
 
Seth
11:40 / 05.11.02
It sounds great... my initial reservations were because I thought the Angelus episode would be a one-off, which wouldn't give nearly enough space for exploring what a wonderful character he is. I'm also expecting the depiction to be different this time, too: Angel has been through so much twisted shit over the last few years, and we've seen a great deal of subtlety in how he's developed. I expect the same in Angelus. Fair play to finally doing something with Fred and Gunn too. Man did they suck.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:33 / 05.11.02
I think my favourite thing about the Gunn thing is that to the casual observer or recent fan it's totally out of left field, but on another level it's not at all... Plus it fits in with the theme that's been going on for the last two series and is arguably one of Joss Whedon's key obsessions: where do you draw the line if your life's work is essentially violence, albeit violence in the name of 'good'?
 
 
The Natural Way
11:13 / 10.11.02
Joss Whedon?
 
 
cusm
16:40 / 13.11.02
This season does look all kinds of yummy dark so far. I'm a bit put out though by mention on one of the spoiler sites that the Big Bad coming up soon will be cracking jokes. With all the broody armageddon stuff brewing, that's not exactly what I was loking forward to.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:44 / 13.11.02
That was a fun episode last Sunday. It was nice seeing old school Wesley and high school Cordy. And I just fell in love with Fred! She's so cute.
 
 
doglikesparky
21:36 / 15.11.02
Wesley completely stole the show didn't he? First the Kara-te and then the stumbling into the room. Comedy genius.
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:03 / 15.11.02
This is a completely pointless question and it would appropriately go in the Anal Angel Observations if there were such a thread, but... is Lorne gay? He seems gay and, like I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm new to this show so he could very well be and I just don't know.

I think that would be a nice contrast to all the oozing testosterone on the show. (He's already is a contrast, but um, I guess I just find big green gay demons interesting.)
 
 
Seth
22:27 / 15.11.02
At the moment the actor is just playing the part from that angle, in much the same way as Andrew J Robinson played Garak in DS9 (at least, that's what I assume from Andy Hallet's performance - I think that's the guy's name). They've said nothing overt to back it up.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
07:01 / 16.11.02
Yeah, and he's shown definite attraction to women (like Cordelia) in the past... however, in the same manner, he's shown attraction to Angel. Either he's just an incorrigible flirt, which fits with the character, or he's bi, or both. I like both. I want to see Connor and Lorne start making schmoogly-eyes at each other. Now that's a romantic subplot...
 
 
gridley
20:07 / 18.11.02
on a related note, it was nice to see Wesley holding Gunn's chest in his manly arms last night...
 
 
Tamayyurt
22:37 / 18.11.02
Especially after the "homo-erotic cop" comment made by Cordy last last episode. Nice that Conner got his ass kicked again (last time by 17-year-old Angel). The bad guy looks pretty hardcore. Loved the shot gun facial!
 
  

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