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Batman Vs Frank Miller

 
  

Page: (1)23456... 7

 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
15:50 / 25.11.01
...but even still, am I the only one who thinks this new Dark Knight thing looks HORRIBLE? And calling it "DK2" - oh, gross!

Is anyone planning on reading this here?
 
 
The Knowledge +1
15:54 / 25.11.01
No way. Check out the official DC site/DK2 site, and the pteview pages.

This series looks like it has real potential. Alright some of Frank Millers work doesn't alwys hit the mark but one thing Miller wouldn't do is sell out.
 
 
01
16:36 / 25.11.01
This is going to rock. Obviously it won't be the original, but it'll still be a damn good read. The only complaint I have, is that Klaus Jansen isn't doing the art. That would've given more of a sense of continuity.
Miller's art in some of the previews seems to capture the original feel, but in others (such as anything with Wonder Woman)it looks kind of yikes.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
17:07 / 25.11.01
It's sin city in colour, is what it is

p.s. dc have been playing down the book and let out fairly average early images. Then, one week ago, abot two weeks before its release, they start a website with three beautiful pages and thats what I'm getting at - The preorders selling out and the huge marketing campaign is being done cause dc know they have a MAJOR hit on their hands
 
 
THX-1138
17:26 / 25.11.01
I think I'll wait for the inevitable TPB.
Or even the 'limited edition' signed and numbered super-deluxe tpb.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
21:05 / 25.11.01
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
21:15 / 25.11.01
I am both terrified and elated. DK being my favorite all time comic. But a sequel?
 
 
The Damned Yankee
21:59 / 25.11.01
My attitude here is the same when I went to see the sequel to one of my favorite movies, The Crow, i.e. "This had better be good!"

And, of course, anyone who's seen The Crow: City of Angels knows how that turned out.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
10:50 / 26.11.01
Sometimes I feel like the only guy who really does not care at all for Frank Miller. The guy is a great cartoonist, but his writing is soooo crap.. I just can't get into his macho crime noir world, whether it is the original Dark Knight, Daredevil, Sin City... the only thing he's ever done that I liked as a story was his Martha Washington stuff with Dave Gibbons.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
16:29 / 26.11.01
thas funny coz I thought martha was shite.

I love dark night.

and a lot of the dd stuff.

And elektra assasin wiv sinkywiz was one of the nuttiest things in the history of culture
 
 
Ganesh
16:42 / 26.11.01
I think a lot of his stuff hovers on that shite/brilliant cusp. The macho stuff (or, for women, macho crap with Jordanesque bazoombas) turns me off slightly - but, when he tries to do 'sensitive' (Martha Washington), he's even crappier.

Go, as they say, figure.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
19:50 / 26.11.01
He's an incredibly passionate writer, so I find his best work is always the raw/street-level/post-structualist stuff, with simple characters and simple settings.
 
 
Ganesh
20:01 / 26.11.01
"Simple". That's the word.
 
 
sleazenation
20:11 / 26.11.01
I still favour year one above DKR,

DKR may be a fantastic revision of the superhero paradigm, but it still relies on heavily on tropes of superheroes.
while year one makes batman relivent to a crime ridden modernity with few of the trappings of superherodom.

Give me liberty struck me as a wonderful satire on the american dream- the problem with satire however is that it has an inherant distancing effect between the characters and the reader. the the expository points being made were all there in the orginal series there really was no point to the rest. 'further adventures of candid' anyone?

the Frank miller think that i'd like to read but haven't yet is Hard boiled- something that you seldom see unfortunately...

oh and K+1 what do you mean by post structrialism? I don't see much evidence Barthesian 'floating signifiers in a decentred universe' in Miller's work.
 
 
The Knowledge +1
20:55 / 26.11.01
Breaking things down to the common denominators, Dark Knight Returns being the definitive example.

Or, Sin City = Guns, Booze and Bullets.

[ 26-11-2001: Message edited by: The Knowledge +1 ]
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
23:39 / 26.11.01
Knowledge +1, I want you to come clean with us: do you work for Wizard magazine? Your opinions, your writing style, the catchphrases that you use, your love of Bendis...it all screams "Wizard Editor!" to me.
 
 
A
08:53 / 27.11.01
Judging by that silhouette of Superman, the Man Of Steel has spent the intervening years between now and whenever this is set compulsively cracking his knuckles, and now has super-arthritis.

And look at that panel with a close up of someone's full, pouting, parted lips and the phrase "Houston, we're going down." Man that's subtlety.

oh, and look what page it is, 23 spotters.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
13:56 / 27.11.01
Q: Why does Frank Miller suddenly draw like a fifth rate Kyle Baker?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
15:13 / 27.11.01
A: Because he can get away with it.
 
 
THX-1138
09:18 / 28.11.01
After seeing page 23 of that crap I'm not so sure I'm goingto buy the trade after all.
I'll just read it at the bookstore.

[ 28-11-2001: Message edited by: THX-1138 ]
 
 
The Knowledge +1
09:44 / 28.11.01
Oh ye posters of little faith...
 
 
bio k9
09:44 / 28.11.01
I think its pretty funny that Tim Sale has become a better artist than FM. Eat it, Frank.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:44 / 28.11.01
And I think all this, "God, this is gonna be soooo baaad", stuff is soooo predictable. Now everyone's gonna think I fancy Frank Miller, or something....

Please, before someone like Cameron starts posting about how DK2's crapness is an objective fact, remember: You haven't read it. I'm no Miller cocksucker either, but I'm hoping to enjoy DK2 - not because I expect it to be a groundbreaking read, just because it might be fun and it's nice to look forward to things.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:45 / 28.11.01
....and it will be 'interesting' even if it is shite.

how the mighty have fallen an' all that...

or

fuck me! what a return to form.

I'm always willing to check out miller's stuff.

I'm worried on all of your behalf, that constructive criticism is on it's way out.

at least concerning comics, anyway.

tho I reckon we can all agree that Jill Thompson is pish.

Can't we.

Let's be honest - who thought Cameron's work was shite?

Anyone?!!!
 
 
CameronStewart
11:31 / 28.11.01
>>>Please, before someone like Cameron starts posting about how DK2's crapness is an objective fact, remember: You haven't read it.<<<

I haven't stuck my cock in a hornet's nest either, but I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy it. Or should I remain objective until I've actually had the experience?



>>>Let's be honest - who thought Cameron's work was shite?<<<

<raises hand> Me! Me!

[ 28-11-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:49 / 28.11.01
I’m with Thrax on this one : maybe people who’ve read it can comment, until then, it’s all guesswork. Which reminds me of that Onion gag about two fanboys arguing about the LOTR and Harry Potter films on the basis of only having seen the trailers…

If we’re going to look at past history, it’s difficult to guess whether Miller returning to the scene of a former glory will be a good or a bad thing. People here seem to think that the series featuring Martha Washington have been less good as time went on, whereas a recent thread on Daredevil seemed to rate the Born Again sequence very highly – and this was Miller returning to the character for a second stint, after all. As was Batman Year One.

Revisiting something can be useful and interesting (Eisner’s work using the Dropsie Avenue locale, for example), allowing a creator to find more to express and explore, or it can be a letdown (Claremont’s recent X-work doesn’t appear to have had the same success as his past stuff, for instance). We’ll actually be able to say something useful about 'DK2' when we've seen it, right ?

And Cameron : I’m sure that you see your work as an ongoing process of evolution and learning (which is only right – Neil Gaiman made a comment about Will Eisner to this effect recently, so let’s face it, you’re in good company with that mindset), but I think you’re being too hard on yourself there. I’ve seen a goodly amount of your work, and I think it's very impressive. Sure, there’ll be stuff you’ve done in the past that embarrasses you (in the final analysis, that’s going to be the case for all of us, right?) in later times, but that in itself shows that you’re not content to stagnate. Which is exactly the sort of approach that does you credit, and can only help the medium…

DBC
 
 
deja_vroom
12:04 / 28.11.01
the thing is: DKR never needed a sequel. it was a closed arc - a very nice one, if not the best thing i've ever read.

the thing is: DC and FM needed the money.

As for Frank Miller himself, I think he has great ideas but his writing is so self-aggrandising... turns out to be shite.

P.S.: My God, someone take that Photoshop away of that colorist!!
 
 
sleazenation
12:12 / 28.11.01
surely the most damning criticism is a refusal to buy?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:15 / 28.11.01
rant over, I actually do like cameron's 'stuff'.

his wee alex toth men punching eachother in the background of some invisibles panel (vol.3 ish 2) were a beautiful foil to his scooby doo john 'a dreams villain holding the twin test-tubes of existence aloft.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:41 / 28.11.01
Thanks Dave and Thrax.

Yeah, it's a sad fact that I'm very, very rarely satisfied with anything I do - there's always parts that I feel I rushed, or didn't do properly. I look back on old work and cringe in embarrassment. However, as long as I can look at old work and think "I can do better than that now," it means

<Eric Stoltz in The Fly 2>

I'm getting... better...

</Eric Stoltz in The Fly 2>

I don't think I'm going to be anywhere near the artistic level I desire until I'm somewhere in my forties. And even then I probably won't be satisfied. Curse of the creative...

[ 28-11-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
The Natural Way
13:50 / 28.11.01
Well, I certainly don't think Cam's stuff is shite either. Like it very much. But I doubt DK2 gets close to hornets and cocks.

Thing is, it doesn't bother me if it is shit - I'd just like it to be good. And it doesn't have to be bad.
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:53 / 28.11.01
Well, it’ll be worth the time spent for you, I’m sure.
And aiming higher can’t hurt; there are – ahem – many creators (in the comic industry and elsewhere) who appear to have given up and decided to coast… to paraphrase Preacher, ‘better to try to be one of them evolving artists, cuz there’s far too many of the stagnant’.

DBC
 
 
sleazenation
13:56 / 28.11.01
amusing you chose to paraphrase preacher DBC, since its such a good example of a title that while popular still stagnated as its run progressed.
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:01 / 28.11.01
Hah, good point – I’m glad it wasn’t just me that felt that.
I had to re-read ‘Alamo’ looking for the dramatic ending I’d missed, but then in the end I was forced to sadly conclude it wasn’t actually there. Which is a pity, as some of the climaxes to the tales within the series had been very strong.

DBC
 
 
CameronStewart
14:07 / 28.11.01
>>>But I doubt DK2 gets close to hornets and cocks.<<<

Well, as indicated by the , I was exaggerating for humourous effect.

I really don't have a hatred for DK2, I just think it's pointless and have no interest in reading it...
 
  

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