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PETITION TO CLOSE DOWN BARBELITH AND HAVE IT REMAIN AN ARCHIVE, A TESTAMENT, A MUSEUM

 
  

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iamus
13:21 / 08.01.09
I completely agree with that statement.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
13:30 / 08.01.09
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. You'd like to set free the denizens of Barbelith to do whatever they like (moderation is dying, even if the place itself is nominally alive/functional). I'd think it pretty clear by now what my position is.

ETA: @ Ermintrude - not iamus.
 
 
ghadis
13:55 / 08.01.09
Is there perhaps a simple way to just delete all posts made before 6th October 2006 and leave it at that?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:16 / 08.01.09
What happened on that date?
 
 
ghadis
14:24 / 08.01.09
It was my birthday but apart from that no other reason. Sorry, it was a pretty unhelpful post and off the cuff. I put in to delete it as i still think that that sort of facetious post isn't helpful in Policy. I'm still swinging towards the Aye side really but i'm teetering.
 
 
ghadis
14:35 / 08.01.09
I've just noticed that Oct 06 was when you joined up Nolte. Sorry if you thought that my post was a reference to you! No connection.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
14:38 / 08.01.09
No, I never thought of it! Heh. But now that you mention it...
 
 
Quantum
14:52 / 08.01.09
I put in to delete it

Ghadis you're living in the past! Expecting a delete or indeed any moderation request to be approved is so 2006, adapt!

Having read ermintrude and el directo's points, I think they are probably right and the best thing is for me to just stop coming here. I still want to be contactable though in case any lovely people want to meet or email, hmm- aha! LJ!
Win.
 
 
Quantum
15:10 / 08.01.09
Even better, I should just change my expectations of the place and my behaviour, I am responsible for my own happiness... I'm going to troll darkstallion, hahaha
 
 
ghadis
15:18 / 08.01.09
Well, i think maybe the last worthwhile post i made to barbelith was in 06 so that may have something to do with it. Actually i think that must of been a fluke and my last worthwhile post was a couple of years before that when i made a vow never to enter the internet unless i was shitfaced. This is why i feel so uneasy about entering into the current debate.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
23:03 / 10.01.09
Quantum, you should come on to LJ and tell me your username.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
23:04 / 10.01.09
You should also troll Darkstallion!!!!! Personally I think that would be a worthwhile endeavour.
 
 
illmatic
15:40 / 11.01.09
Following a conversation with Seth in The Best Pub in London on Friday, I have a few more thoughts about the site's closure. I'd neglected the anime threads in my initial thinking about demolishing the site. Arguably, the contributions there have built something good in the rubble. Seems a shame to shut Barbelith when it might stifle those threads and their enjoyment. But they are are the *only* reason I can think of that the site should remain open, and it's arguably that the steaming shitness of the rest of it should outweigh those few sparks of positivity. I can't make up my mind either way, so I'm going to stop thinking about it as I've already given too much thought this week to something I don't care about that much.

It's also possible that when (ha!)/if Tom ever reads this, he'll just pull the plug with no archive site left up online, which would be the easiest option. Personally. I'm alright with this, but it's worth thinking about when calling for closure.
 
 
Seth
11:36 / 12.01.09
I think the anime threads have thrived while the rest of the site has been dying, but that even those have seen a down-turn. I'd be watching more if my life permitted me to, but at the moment it's snatching a couple of episodes here and there. That's not enough for serious analysis, and therefore not enough to post (besides the Bleach threads, which are freakin' brilliant).

In much the same way as I don't think anyone's ability to gain closure on Barbelith should be incumbent on a disinterested board owner's decision to close the place, I also don't want my enjoyment of the remaining threads of worth to be incument upon that same disinterested board owner. If Tom wants to close this place I wouldn't be surprised if he gave us no prior warning, and I don't even expect him to necessarily leave it open to view it as an archive. He's stopped caring now, so why should he care enough to leave it available to view? Threads like this will do what the contributors want them to do: increase the likelihood of those things happening sooner rather than later.

So I've posted in the Manga and Anime Primers and the Bleach threads for interested parties to PM or email me if they want to move those discussions off-board. They're of a higher quality than I've seen elsewhere on the web and I think they deserve to be preserved.

I'd suggest that everyone else do the same. Save what you need and leave before it's closed without notice.

I stand by my earlier post to this thread in all respects, but it has taken these posts to make me realise the precariousness of Barbelith as it stands right now. We're playing in the garden of someone who doesn't give a shit and we can be kicked out at any time. Threads like this make it more likely that we'll be kicked out sooner, and it's annoying to have to start from scratch with such an investment when the infrastructure here has supported it for so long.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:04 / 12.01.09
Some archiving tools here.
 
 
Quantum
14:29 / 12.01.09
So the current plan is grab anything you value before the place sinks beneath the waves? Time to check out the archiving tools...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:03 / 12.01.09
It feels a bit like Bioshock, certainly. Mind you, you could probably find a quiet place in Rapture and crouc indefinitely, listening to the creak of metal and the sound of water.
 
 
Quantum
09:10 / 13.01.09
That's the Headshop you're describing, quiet but with screams in the distance.
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
13:39 / 15.01.09
AYE.
 
 
Ignacio
20:55 / 16.01.09
I would not be writing in the wrong thread if I was convinced that the arguments against the closure of Barbelith were being read. I also do not see why I should respect thread protocols when the petition in question comes from a refusal to stop using Barbelith without taking it away from others.

I read most of the petitions to close this site and the impression I got, as someone that has only belonged to this thread for a bit more than a year, is that there is a number of people who have been part of this site for a long period of time and also put a lot of energy on these threads, and now they find themselves dissapointed at the current state of the site and want to close it down.

Are you actually reading all the messages in all the forums in order to deem such petition as fair and reasonable? I personally have found Barbelith extremely useful and illuminating, both as a site of ongoing discussion and as an archive of some very valuable documents. I do not see why other people should lose Barbelith just because a number of senior contributors feel dissapointed. In any case, it seems to me as an overly emotional and impulsive act which is possibly useful to avoid responsibility.

If you find that this place makes you waiste your time, then you probably need some extra time management skills; it's not Barbelith's fault if you procastinate on the web.

I might be a complete uncultured newbie that has no understanding of how much history, politics and mixed feelings might me motivating this seemingly childish reaction, but Barbelith is one of only two forums I am part of, because i tend to hate these sites. I like Barbelith because you can still find consistent quality in some discussion forums, which is a lot.

I find this petition selfish and arrogant. It seems to follow a "burn the house down" kind of attitude which I associate with very chauvinistic delusions of heroism and sacrifice.

Some of us are having a good time writing and reading good stuff in here. Sort it out.

NAI

I apologise for my erratic English, it's not my first language and I'm tired.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
23:49 / 16.01.09
I don't mean to be accusing you of being an ignorant newbie, but as far as I can see you, Ignacio, have 11 posts to your name, so who are you talking about when you say that "some of you" have a good time reading and _writing_ on Barbelith? Where are these good times, meaning presently active threads that involve a substantial part of the community in constructive, respectful, intelligent debate? Perhaps excluding those in the Policy. Just maybe.

Also, "delusions of heroism and sacrifice"? Can you clarify that please?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:37 / 17.01.09
I would assume he means the discussions of anime and manga that Seth has been having on Barbelith. I don't speak from any experience, but anecdotally these are of far higher quality, or at least of a far higher consistency of quality, than equivalent discussions elsewhere.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
09:59 / 17.01.09
That was my thought as well. Still leaves the heroism and sacrifice bit tho...
 
 
trouble at bill
12:02 / 18.01.09
I think I sort of know what ze means, but I should let Ignacio explain.

My feeling is that Barbelith shouldn't be shut down. (The only reason I could possibly have for going against that feeling is if it's genuinely making some people so unhappy that it should be put out of their misery on utilitarian grounds, sort of I-can't-allow-this-level-of-misery-to-people-I-know-and-like grounds. And I do have my concerns about various people, believe me.) So there's my thoroughly ambivalent ten cents' worth.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:28 / 18.01.09
The practical argument for closing the board is, I think, roughly:

There are increasingly few moderators active on Barbelith - if Mordant has gone, that's two more down this month. As such, it is harder to exercise any moderation over Barbelith. If people are just not able to correct typos, that's not so bad. but it also means that Barbelith is trending to a point where racist, anti-semitic, homophobic or just vile content is increasingly hard to remove from the board. This also means that letting people on is a progressively greater risk , as the only protection against e.g. porn spam or Nazi recruitment links is the people currently on board not having done it so far (and those who did having been removed). Since nobody except Tom can make moderators, and there aren't really many people left who should be moderators who aren't, and the same problem would continue to recur, it may be best to close Barbelith to posting while there are any barriers left. Or declare that one no longer cares about it and throw about the doors, but I think Tom would be responsible (legally and probably ethically) for whatever went on.
 
 
Slim
22:07 / 18.01.09
Nay.
 
 
Lugue
23:33 / 18.01.09
Has he (Tom) been directly contacted about all of this?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
02:49 / 22.01.09
Aye.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
11:17 / 22.01.09
Aye.
 
 
■
10:31 / 23.01.09
Nay, but I can understand the argument. I haven't been active ever since I got eaten by WoW, and even though I pop into comics to help get my head around Morrison's stuff, the presence of Mindless Ones these days does the job just fine. While I would love the place to stay open, just because, well y'know (inarticulate mumblings), if it is going to go, can we get a few days' warning to get in touch with people we might have lost contact details for?
 
 
Automatic
13:12 / 23.01.09
Nay. PLEASE keep it open.

..... what am I going to do at work if it's gone?
 
 
jentacular dreams
14:59 / 23.01.09
%As your employer I have a fair idea!%

We've discussed freezing it as an archive (though I suspect that it would eventually just disappear), we've discussed selling it to GM, we've discussed personal archives. Has anyone though about buying it off Tom? I mean a number of lithers (past and present) help with hosting costs etc, so it's not like it'd be an impossibility?

I understand there's IP issues with Cal's coding and all, but, if you can archive the site using scrapbook or whatever, surely it can't be a huge jump from that to copying the posts over to a new forum and starting afresh with mod powerz etc etc, but with the existing history intact?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:14 / 23.01.09
Unless he's had a major change of heart in the last year or so, Tom won't go for that.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:25 / 23.01.09
Does anyone (looking at you Randy) have any idea, any idea at all, what Tom's views on this place are atm? I mean, why does he bother hanging on to it when

a) he's not around anymore
b) it's made of fail
c) it won't NOT be made of fail in the foreseeable future, unless
d) he's suddenly back, carrying a new technical infrastructure in his virtual pocketses, that empowers the community and allows for a reincarnation/-animation and the return to halcyon days

And no, I don't actually expect any kind of satisfactory answer to my query. This is Friday afternoon exasperation. As you were.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:46 / 23.01.09
I can only really go on what he's said here before. He won't hand over to anybody else, because he feels that doing so would open up some kind of question of data security. The place is still around because the last time he looked at it people still wanted it to be around. That's about it, really, as far as I can tell. Haus is probably the only person here who could give you an accurate answer.
 
  

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