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PETITION TO CLOSE DOWN BARBELITH AND HAVE IT REMAIN AN ARCHIVE, A TESTAMENT, A MUSEUM

 
  

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Tsuga
00:37 / 12.03.09
I think I'm still, after so long, a little unclear of how much power moderators have here. From what I can tell, it's possible to lock threads, delete comments, and edit comments, with agreement of three? right? moderators. But there are not enough moderators, and arguably, not enough reliable posters still active to pad the rolls. If there are not enough, then there's not much to do. If there were, and it could actually be figured out, then that might be one possible change, to add moderators, if I read Tom right:
- you guys should know that if you ever need anything urgently, you can still contact me on tom /at/ plasticbag /dot/ org or at barbelith /dot/ com. I'm not completely absent and I will do what I can, but I won't realistically be able to do anything more than an hour's work on the place here and there...
I suppose it wouldn't take him too long to change moderator status, but I certainly could be wrong. Then it would still be the debate of whether or not to open admissions. Are people still applying, even? Are they still mostly GM loving chaotics?
I admit to having a great deal of ignorance, even after some years of reading policy. And this stuff has gone back and forth in the same grooves for years. Tom's last post is the only thing that breathes a hint of some possibility of change, though it still may be bullshit, but is there any desire to try and take advantage of his offer? Or do most of you believe it would be as futile as most of the discussion here?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:51 / 12.03.09
Moderator actions take more or fewer votes depending on severity. One to edit, two to delete, three to delete a thread, like that. So, the ability to delete threads goes first, then the ability to move threads or delete posts, down to the ability to moderate posts.

There are people still applying, although not in large numbers. At the moment they are getting no response, but maybe an autoreply explaining the situation would be polite. They are mainly people who have read the Invisibles and want to talk about it/live it, chaos magicians, the odd person from other areas, often coming from a google search, and sometimes people who were banned asking to be let in again.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
03:51 / 12.03.09
Hey, sorry to interrupt, but am I still a moron? Shit like that matters to me, and I'd hate to be still voting on mod duties while officially stupid. That's clearly not going to improve the situation for anyone involved, really.
 
 
grant
13:57 / 12.03.09
Not as far as I'm concerned, Stoatie. Never.

-----

One or two notes on cloud moderation:

1. It'd really only work with some kind of scale, I think. 60 mods to 600 users? A hundred?

2. I don't have much of a problem with inconsistent moderation within limits - most people are, at best, inconsistent anyway, and most boards with centralized moderation are as arbitrary and inconsistent as any other bureaucracy. They just have personalities you can hang things on.

3. There may have been an unspoken problem here with accountability. Most of the moderation things I found onerous had to do with tracking things or making some kind of public announcement in a thread: "I'm the one who put forward the deletion of X for Y reason." "Sorry, I vetoed that delete because Z answered." "Oh, that's too bad. Shall we fight?" "Yes, let's." OR, the alternative, in which things happened mysteriously and everyone scratched their heads. Perhaps I'm more comfortable embracing the mystery.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:10 / 12.03.09
Hey, sorry to interrupt, but am I still a moron?

I don't think so, although I believe you missed a great opportunity to tell HCE to cry moar.
 
 
Ticker
17:42 / 12.03.09
Stoats, the man who brought ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH to Barbelith can do no wrong. SRSLY UR LYKE KURT RUSSELL 2 MEE.

Iamus, dude, you can always start a new board or take part in a spin off that other people have set up. I think there are a couple now. LN happened in part because some of us finally grokked shit ain't never going to be fixed in time here. There was some false hope when a few features got chucked in but it died quickly when the lever broke off in our hands and the dangling duct tape got all wadded together. I'm still hopefully enough to come sit vigil and see if there will be a deathbed miracle because I'm an Optimus. Er, yes moving on.

BRUCE WILLIS, CAN YOU HEAR ME BRUCE WILLIS??!?!? CAPS DEFINITELY WORK BETTER. THOUGH I FEEL LIKE GORDON COLE. WILLIS, TODAY YOU REMIND ME OF A SMALL AUSTRALIAN DINGO.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:55 / 12.03.09
Although I very much enjoyed the Doctor Manhattan joke AND YOU ALL DID TOO, more seriously:


Okay, I may have to back up a bit because I was learning on the hop, but that seemed to me to be the big bone of contention as laid out by Mordant and XK. Mordant's post was redacted, both here and where it was made, so I can't point to it. But XK's should still be there in the create new accounts thread. If it's not a problem with what Mordant laid out, then I can't think of any other reason why that information would have been taken out of the public domain.

If the problem with flagging the security hole isn't that it would attract trolls to those with access to those holes and compromise their security, then I might be missing what the problem is then. How would it compromise the integrity of Barbelith's content?


The final question Randy has already answered, but the rest rests on a different perception of what constitutes a security hole. It certainly makes it more likely that people might be subjected to social engineering attacks, or might have attacks made on their login identities, but these would not be facilitated by a failure in the technical implementation. The attacks there aren't a security hole, they are consequential. It's the content issue that's a result of technical failure, which is the security hole.

Of course, as has been said already by a very insightful and attractive man, any system where the code base is not updated is susceptible to the proliferation of exploits, so other issues may develop.

Why didn't I go for Ashley Tisdale? I think I could be happy as Ashley Tisdale.
 
 
iamus
23:53 / 12.03.09
Stoatie, you are one of the genuinely nicest people I have met and you wear your heart on your sleeve a bit. In my time on Barbelith, I have never found you to be anything less than a bloody smart and caring person. Also, when things aren't going the way you'd like, you tend to take it all on yourself.

On the contrary, I've found HCE to be a very clever and interesting person, but also a very offensive one when the mood takes. When things aren't to her liking, like here, she sometimes shows a tendancy to push it onto others.

If anything, it's your sense of humour that is moronic, but that's the best kind in my eyes.

In a toss-up... STOATKIPZ, I CHOOSE YOU!



Look, I think I've shown here and in PMs Haus, that whether you think I'm worth listening to or not (not), this does come from the best possible place. Refute it if you wish, but the saying is enough for me.


I'm not sure then what you are complaining for, or where the weary lament of Bruce Willis justifies itself. One thing that you can expect for certain is that as long as you continue to choose the role you have at the moment, you will also continue to receive the ceaseless reposings of the same questions over and over. It's in the contract, and should be fully acknowledged before anything else. I mean, it's easy to say it's the fault of the many different people asking again and again and again, but really, there's only one person keeping you in the position that draws these questions to you.

Now as I see it, you could either hand this responsibility back to Tom and be free of all this shite that's clearly not good for your blood-pressure, or you can accept that it's just a quirk of the role you have chosen and stop bothering about it, cause doing so is only going to be like trying to punch water into submission.

I'm not personally invested in seeing you choose one over the other, or indeed whether you think that what I say has any merit or not. But I don't personally see the value in getting irritated over a situation that's only at you because you choose it to be.
 
 
iamus
23:56 / 12.03.09
X-Post.

Thanks for that.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:52 / 13.03.09
It's just a general me thing to poke a little and see what it turns up.

But what if one of your victims/targets went on a killing spree as a result? Let's be clear here; you don't know they won't.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
06:30 / 13.03.09

Look, I think I've shown here and in PMs Haus, that whether you think I'm worth listening to or not (not), this does come from the best possible place. Refute it if you wish, but the saying is enough for me.


Um. OK. Well, if the saying of it is good enough for you, then that's good enough for you, certainly, but I'm not sure what kind of place you feel is the best possible. I think I understand why this is a thing for you, but the reasons why I understand this rely largely on things you have said in private messages. I believe, however, that the selfless and altruistic elements of your person are the elements which have so far listened to and been persuaded by Randy, XK, Mordant and others. But mileages and variance.

One thing that you can expect for certain is that as long as you continue to choose the role you have at the moment, you will also continue to receive the ceaseless reposings of the same questions over and over. It's in the contract, and should be fully acknowledged before anything else. I mean, it's easy to say it's the fault of the many different people asking again and again and again, but really, there's only one person keeping you in the position that draws these questions to you.

For reference, I don't have a problem with many different people asking the same questions again and again and again - it's the same small number of people asking the same questions again and again and again, because it feels like a war of attrition. Just want to be clear about that. It's not people not knowing things per se. The situation is sufficiently cock-eyed that asking about it (once or twice) is perfectly sensible.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:25 / 13.03.09
Can anyone who has been dissing HCE for saying something she did not say please explain what they were doing when we were indulging in the popular Internet passtime of telling a woman who has expressed an opinion to fuck off, by the way?
 
 
Char Aina
09:40 / 13.03.09
Well, I told HCE to fuck off, but neither for something she didn't say, nor for reasons of gender or sex. I did so in response to her suggestion that nobody good was left, and her post to GG;

Go fuck your own mother, GG. I meant what I said, nobody good is left. Stoatie runs around sounding like a moron, for reasons known only to him. Possibly some of my own old pals are around, but there hasn't been a decent conversation in ages, so whatever brilliant deep thoughts people are having elsewhere, on here, we're all just a bunch of assholes.

Oh by the way, this is all said in my new persona, that of an old drunk. Just in case you thought you had some kind of right not to find me hilarious.



In my experience, an old drunk who thinks the pub is shit, the staff are idiots and the music is terrible will often be asked to leave the pub and go where they might have a better time(and where people who are enjoying themselves don't have to deal with them).

If you don't like it, why not just leave? Why the need to make sure we all know you find us contemptuous?

It's something I've seen happen an awful lot. Some older people seem to feel a need to tell youngsters how dumb they really are, and unsurprisingly, people don't respond well to being told the place they hang out is boring and that all the people there are idiots. The response often becomes fairly confrontational, as you can imagine.


If it helps, I had no idea that HCE was female. It's possible I should have done, but I don't really give her much thought beyond trying to avoid her often quite unpleasant chat.

It seems you weren't sure yourself...

HCE is entitled to be regretful. HCE was not the person who started shouting "fuck off!", and of course you were silent when s/he was being abused.

...a couple of pages ago.

On that, I wasn't present when she was told to fuck off. I am only here sporadically, and recently only because I was physically present when iamus was posting about the access point and so was interested to see how his thread went.

Thing is, I'm not sure I would have defended her even had I been. I disagree with her attack on those who are left and can understand GG's response.

I certainly did suggest she fuck off, and I certainly did so after she expressed an opinion, but that was because her opinion insulted everyone here(and subsequently GG and hir mother), and not because women are not allowed to hold one.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:50 / 13.03.09
tl;dr saw scrap, wanted in. Anyone planning to surprise me?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:41 / 13.03.09
You got a celebration coming up?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:47 / 13.03.09
E Randy Dupre: There are people who are no longer active on this board who don't want it to happen

For what my opinion is worth - which isn't much, I used to be a big deal in this town, but memories are short and all flesh is grass - I am one of these people. I met great people and encountered some things I genuinely wouldn't have encountered otherwise via Barbelith, and I really would rather it closed entirely than became what I - and others - believe it would become with lots of new members and no moderators (we really aren't going to get new moderators)
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:48 / 13.03.09
I used to be married to Kim Basinger, you know. What has my life become.
 
 
Char Aina
11:57 / 13.03.09
saw scrap, wanted in

Speak for yourself.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:38 / 13.03.09
I feel as if you and I should have been in a film together, Alec. But have we?
 
 
Harrison Ford, in a battle suit, wheels for feet, knives and guns
13:10 / 13.03.09
Aye.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:15 / 13.03.09
MERCURY RISING
 
 
Jack Vincennes
13:19 / 13.03.09
Mercury Rising, Bruce! How could you forget. I might have been kind of a dick, though. I'd love to make amends somehow. 30 Rock is a pretty hot property. Call my people? I know it's just television, I know. Better than "Friends", though, isn't it?
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
13:29 / 13.03.09
(we really aren't going to get new moderators)

I may have been foolish enough to accept a role in the crime and gardening drama Rosemary and Thyme but even I, Felicity Kendal, aged hottie understand that barbelith will get no new moderators.

Incidentally Alec, Bruce, do you remember that night on the verandah in Ottawa?
 
 
grant
13:44 / 13.03.09
I think for the first time ever, I'm actually eager to see some slash.

In Policy, even, of all places.

Wait for me to pour another port....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:14 / 13.03.09
Sorry, man. I took a lot of shots to the head during THE LAST BOY SCOUT. Not a master class in fight choreography is ALL I WILL SAY.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
14:21 / 13.03.09
Way to harsh a guy's game, grant.

Felicity, of course I remember Ottowa. The whisky. The women. The moonlight, and the growing darkness. It was a different lifetime for me. I guess it was for you, too.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:34 / 13.03.09
none
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
16:01 / 13.03.09
I know. Better than "Friends", though, isn't it?

100%.

But not as good as "Moonlighting".
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
16:20 / 13.03.09
Ah Alec, I was a nubile younger woman in Ottawa. I couldn't get into that kind of position these days. Pam Ferris on the other hand can do quite surprising things with her legs.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:22 / 13.03.09
How anyone can say the quality of posters has dropped when we've got Bruce Willis, Alec Baldwin AND my awesome 70s childhood crush Felicity Kendal posting, in Policy no less, is beyond me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:12 / 13.03.09
I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A FILM WITH FELICITY K. BUT I HAVE BEEN IN A FILM WITH JOHN CLEESE, WHO HAS. SO WHO IS THE REAL MAN HERE?
 
 
Eloi Tsabaoth
22:37 / 13.03.09
I am. Or at least I could play one convincingly.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:50 / 13.03.09
YOU ARE ALWAYS WATCHABLE.
 
 
sTe
01:46 / 14.03.09
Nay - hang on have we stopped counting?

That was a nay to "Always watchable" then (Patch Adams - really?)

Back to the original plot, why close? OK I've never been a regular, but I like to visit once in a while, check out what's been going down, occasionally feel the need to add some of own personal pearls* of wisdom** to share with team Barbelith. My feeling is that Tom owes us nothing and we can make of the Lith what we will with the tools left available.

If some people are still finding value and pleasure, what right to others have to take this away? No-one is forced to be here if they don't like it. The only argument (other than some random security talk, which I admit I've not read in any detail) for closure seems to be for some bizarre sense of nostalgia - things change, best way in my experience is to adapt and go with it or attempt further change yourself.

Anyway off to get drunk and post in Conv, just like the good old days...(oops)


*or other items found in the ocean
**ish, for a given version of ish
 
 
sTe
01:50 / 14.03.09
hang on, did I say "to others" instead of "do others" ?

Can I still get that edited?

oh that's it, I can't take it anymore, close it all down immediatly
 
  

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