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PETITION TO CLOSE DOWN BARBELITH AND HAVE IT REMAIN AN ARCHIVE, A TESTAMENT, A MUSEUM

 
  

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Closed for Business Time
14:35 / 06.01.09
Tom Coates, Members of Barbelith: What's the point of this place these days? It angers, but does not enlighten. It brings people down, steals time, energy, thought and emotion put to better use elsewhere. It's time to close the gates and throw out the revellers. The party is most definitely over.

This thread is meant to function as a petition where members who agree with me can say "aye" to the proposal that Tom C closes the place for future posting, and that it remain an archive for reference, remembrance and perusal.

I say aye.
 
 
ghadis
14:41 / 06.01.09
Aye.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
14:44 / 06.01.09
I came here for magic and the temple's been sacked.
I stay for idle banter but it does waste time and energy: I contribute little of quality and get sucked in to petty squabbles like a voyeur, while I should focus my energy on my work...
It saddens me greatly that I jumped on as it was sinking last April, but if it helps in the least,

I say aye.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:45 / 06.01.09
Aye.

Whay aye, even.
 
 
Quantum
15:31 / 06.01.09
A MAN SAYS 'AYE!' GIVE THE BEAST A MERCIFUL DEATH!
 
 
Saint Keggers
15:52 / 06.01.09
nay
 
 
Mistoffelees
15:54 / 06.01.09
Barbelith is dead is not getting more true by using it as an online mantra. I say thee nay, you´ll have to prise Barbelith out of my cold dead hands.
 
 
illmatic
16:41 / 06.01.09
Yes. PLEASE.

Could people who disagree please argue about it in another thread? There are two threads going where you could have this discussion.

This thread is the petition thread. You don't sign a petition if you disagree.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
16:52 / 06.01.09
Thanks for that Rex Feral. While I respect people's opinions to the contrary, this thread is not for discussion. As said above, it's a petition. If you want, start a thread that is the antithesis of this one.
 
 
Cherielabombe
17:24 / 06.01.09
Aye.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
17:38 / 06.01.09
I think "nays" belong here as well, even if not necessarily the arguments supporting them; thirty ayes or whatever this thread ends up with are fairly meaningless as a measure of opinion unless there's some measure of the opposition. And even if you're not convinced by the need for that, my impression from Tom in the past is that it'd be fairly necessary for him.

Even a couple of months ago I'd have really wished to just keep trying a bit longer. Now, reluctantly, aye.
 
 
Evil Scientist
17:44 / 06.01.09
Even a couple of months ago I'd have really wished to just keep trying a bit longer. Now, reluctantly, aye.

I have similar feelings.

Aye.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
17:50 / 06.01.09
I see your point pingle, hence my suggestion for a different thread, antithetical in purpose to this. Had we had a poll function on here that would've been the obvious way of going about it.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:45 / 06.01.09
I should hope that in the event of my death, you would all do the decent thing and kill yourselves immediately, as I can't bear the thought of history continuing without me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:39 / 06.01.09
Is it ironic that Jack is satirising the short-sightedness solipsism he sees in others by shouting LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME, without really understanding what is going on?

I think, on reflection, it's just unfortunate.

I need to give this one some thought, I think, and discuss it, which is apparently better done elsewhere.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
19:53 / 06.01.09
Yes. That and sad. Sad like the whole business with this place of late. More thoughts here as I don't want to rot the thread.
 
 
invisible_al
22:46 / 06.01.09
Aye.
 
 
EmberLeo
05:41 / 07.01.09
I say Aye. It is a far more responsible ending than simply letting the place fester uncared-for, and those who are burning out can only hold on for so much longer.

--Ember--
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:30 / 07.01.09
Am I rat, or a member of the Titanic orchestra?
A rat, I think.

So - aye. Please to kill except for Conversation and Film, TV & Theatre. This is the only way to break the magical curse and set Haus free to work on his novel.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
08:30 / 07.01.09
(Can we plead specially for fora to be saved? I just did, anyway).
 
 
Seth
09:06 / 07.01.09
I'm having as much fun here as I ever had and I don't care about threadrot: if you guys are into pointless parade pissing then so am I. If you don't like it here, just leave. Don't rely on someone who isn't here for your sense of closure (always slightly worrying behaviour, but then the fairly regular Convo relationship break-up threads make it not so surprising) because it enforces closure on the rest of us. If Tom ever decides himself to close it then so be it, until then it's just eye rollingly tedious having to read all the guff from the Return to Pick a Scab Brigade.

It's not the place you want it to be and there's no means of making it the place you want it to be, so go and find/make a place you want to post in. For anyone who thinks they've already found such a place, surely that's MISSION COMPLETE! so why would you still be cropping up here anyway?

Nay.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
10:59 / 07.01.09
Wrong thread, Seth.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
11:23 / 07.01.09
I've been thinking about this since the thread went up and I'll outline my considerations. The background for those considerations being that I moderated barbelith and was one of the few who asked Tom to remove me from the moderator lists and ensured that I was not on those lists before I locked my Tryphena suit out. This should give you the indication that I have always chosen my relationship with barbelith, often because I was annoyed but responsibility always came first and in a sense I feel like I'm in a good position to comment because of that.

Barbelith has no functionality and at this point that is not something to be frustrated about. The time has passed! It gives information out that we personally choose to keep public, no email addresses are apparent so any concern about trolling is internal to the space. In that sense this has become a different board and it's an interesting one- what do you do with the end of a barbelith's life span? We are free to say anything to each other, our failure lies in the fact that we are still acting by consensus along with the intention of the structure, treating this as a functional community, applying moderation requests when we are unclear as to whether they can be passed. Most people here who have been around for a long time have been unwilling to allow their relationships with the realities of the place develop and El Directo is an example of the way that we should respond. More than that though because when we get something wrong in a post we should relinquish moderation and correct it in thread. The fundamental truth is that if we see barbelith as a degrading space than we try to fix it but since it cannot be fixed we need to change our individual responses to it and let it be as it is. If you don't like it, particularly the loss of functionality and quality of discussion than you need to leave and lock yourself out because this is too frustrating for you. It is time to give up Tom Coates, I find it surprising that this thread in 2009 is still asking for his contribution, that you have faith that he will act. I don't.

Do I want to close barbelith? Of course I do when I think about what it was, the relationships I formed here, the amount it taught me when I was 20 years old but then I look at these threads- split into two even though they're on the same subject, rotted by people having discussions and the suggestion that you're going to go around every forum counting the votes from every thread you started and I just think it's funny. It's funny that you still want help from the administrator who won't update the moderation lists, it's funny that you think he will shut it down (does he have time to even do that?), it's funny that you still want consensus and democratic voting. After years of putting up with Tom and his lack of interest, having chosen to abandon my responsibilities to the functionality of barbelith I find you all very dreamy! You lovely, dreamy people and you want to close that idealism down?

I say NAY
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:54 / 07.01.09
I'm with Ermintrude and El Directo.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:57 / 07.01.09
I think there's been a misunderstanding of what I suggested. I did to the best of my knowledge suggest that I post in each of the fora a message in a top/active thread pointing people to the debates and petitions going on here. I never suggested we have a separate petition in each forum. FWIW, I still think you should list your nay votes, and discussions thereof, in the thread started by Jawsus.
 
 
Z. deScathach
12:17 / 07.01.09
A tearful aye.......
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
13:07 / 07.01.09
These aren't petitions though, this is a discussion forum and you can't separate discussions out when they are the same. If you want an actual petition link to an outside site that is built for that purpose.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
13:25 / 07.01.09
Ermintrude: "It is time to give up Tom Coates, I find it surprising that this thread in 2009 is still asking for his contribution, that you have faith that he will act. I don't."

I don't know about faith. Hope maybe? I'm fairly certain the man's got wholly other things on his mind - best as I can tell he last took a serious look at the state of the beast about 18 months ago, and nothing much has happened since.

I said as much in the Intervention thread as well - that I don't believe that this thread or Jawsus' antipode will have much force, and that they may indeed be spurious. Chalk it down to frustration, and a need for closure.

I think there's a reasonably broad consensus that the ethical and communicative yardsticks that previously guided interaction in these spaces towards productive and shock, horror emancipative (relative to other structurally similar spaces) interaction are broken, and won't be fixed.

For me, and several others, this means that using and visiting Barbelith feels more and more like playing a game where you can't use more than a 10th of the controls, you can't shoot the baddies cuz you can't reload or even use the fire button, you can't even avoid them without shutting yourself out entirely. For some this isn't a big problem, and requires as you and El Directo says, a re-orientation as to what now constitutes proper behaviour and posting etiquette. That is of course a solution, but it feels like defeat to me.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
15:40 / 07.01.09
Well maybe it's time to acknowledge that this is a very small battle.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
15:48 / 07.01.09
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow you. Do you mean that in the grander scheme of things, Barbelith is insignificant? Well, of course, but take into account that many - including yourself - has spent much time and energy here. If people didn't care about those investments, we wouldn't even have a Policy forum.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
20:24 / 07.01.09
I moderated this forum for three years, really it's laughable that you're telling me about spent time and energy as the various barbelith members that I've lived with could confirm. If you want to know why I don't feel defeat go to the Head Shop and compare page 1 with page 21. My barbelith hasn't existed outside of the archives for well over a year, if I wanted to suspend it I wouldn't want to do that now.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:16 / 07.01.09
Aye
 
 
Closed for Business Time
11:52 / 08.01.09
Ermintrude, I certainly didn't mean to "tell you" in the sense you seem to have interpreted it, and I'm sorry if I seem to have attempted to pull rank or some such nonsense when I'm but a newbie compared to yourself and a lot of others still on-board. I'm fully aware of your track record. I must admit that knowing that makes me somewhat puzzled to read that you still think there is good times to be had here anymore.
 
 
iamus
13:08 / 08.01.09
I lolled just the other day.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
13:16 / 08.01.09
Just because you don't like it or I don't like it or I feel nostalgia for the way things were doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it. I don't think my past is more important than other people's present, even if they're not like me and I think the healthiest approach that we can all take is not to seek closure externally but to exercise our willpower with our choices regarding our free time. My history concerning barbelith holds no sway over my decision to allow other people their chosen playgrounds even if they're often empty.

Basically I'm a true believer in 'if you love something set it free' and barbelith was never mine.
 
  

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