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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Battlestar Galactica: Razor + Season 4 (SPOILERS)

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Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:35 / 09.04.08

Presumably on the subject of the Cylon ship recognising Anders it must have been something subconscious that he did as Athena didn't recognise him.

Makes sense -- Athena isn't a threat, whereas the ship was about to kill him...

Mind you, Caprica Six did demonstrate the ability to sense their presence; only they were already there, so maybe it has something to do with them being self-aware... I'm surprised that Athena didn't say anything.

Of course, that would involve giving her screen-time, and she wasn't the focus of the episode.

Tigh's a bit all over the place at the moment, but Sharon ended up a Cylon hero and leader in spite of the fact that she started out, even after activation, very loyal to Galactica -- abrupt (or gradual) shifts in loyalty don't really surprise me at this point.

I'm sad that there a finite number of models; in cultural terms, it's a neat idea, a civilization built up of dopplegangers, but BSG is way funnier if you just assume everyone's secretly a Cylon sleeper agent. "In this episode! Someone's a Cylon! Could it be...you?"

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:28 / 13.04.08

Is anyone else concerned that Simon doesn't seem to do or say much on the few occasions on screen? I wonder if the actor has commitments which mean the time he can spend on the show is limited. We hardly saw him during The Occupation in 4x02, where the Cylons are having a massive discussion, he has an amazing one line and then just sits there looking stern for the rest of the episode.

11:59 / 13.04.08

When there were cylons missing at that vote meeting, I already thought, they´re cutting down on the cast. When the shooting started, I was sure, they want to reduce the old seven cylon models to the two well known ones, since now they focus more on the four new ones. They´d probably just be in the way for the last 18 episodes.

One thing bothers me. The fleet know, they got the cylons on their trail. Why would they risk finding the way to Earth? If Earth exists, they endanger the last human inhabited planet. What good will finding Earth be, if the cylons nuke it?

jentacular dreams

15:35 / 13.04.08

Presumably they think that earth will be as well developed as the colonies were. If you look at how tuff pegasus was, it becomes pretty clear that surprise was a huge factor in the cyclon victory.

16:05 / 13.04.08

That sounds convincing. Those two battlestars did destroy quite a lot of those cylon spaceships.

I always thought, the main motivation for them to look for Earth would be the fear, that after some years/decades, morale would be so low that they just throw in the towel.

09:34 / 16.04.08

There's that as well - in fact, IIRC, the morale-boosting implications of finding Earth are Adama's main reason for telling everyone that's their mission at the end of the mini-series: Adama doubts they'll find it, but knows they need a purpose to believe in, and so gives them one.

How far ahead are our American viewers at this point? I note that Sky took the odd decision to splice the first two eps into an hour-and-fifty minutes long super-episode, and I rather hope that means that British and American Battlestar viewers are now on the same page in terms of how far the series has progressed, if only because that removes the need for a separate thread for those of us watching on Sky.

From what I've seen, Starbuck's character, while all over the place, did seem to gel with the way they were trying to portray her character at the end of series three, i.e. completely mental. I would have preferred them to go somewhere different with that, mind, it does get a bit wearing to see Kara constantly acting out. Particularly as it suggests she has some weird fetish for goading older, father-figure officers to the point of hitting her - what is that all about?

I like that Gaius remains as sleazy as ever, despite his messianic status, and I also really like the idea of the Centurions rebelling against the skin jobs, or at least Cavill's faction. It'll be interesting to see how that develops.

jentacular dreams

12:57 / 16.04.08

I think the US has screened 2 episodes of the fourth season 'proper' thus far, with a 3rd this weekend. So the UK is an almost unbvelieveable half a week behind. Maybe they're trying to cut down on people torrenting.

The centurions rebelling against the cylons, as the cylons rebelled against the humans, as the humans rebelled against....?

18:33 / 16.04.08

Fairly disappointing opening pair of episodes. The space battle in 4x01 was fantastic: gorgeous, detailed, exciting. After that everything just plummeted in quality. At times the episodes almost felt like a parody of BSG. Baltar with his googly eyes, more tedious inter Cylon conflict. Cavill's hilariously stupid "Say what?!" just before he was gunned down by Centurions really highlighted just how poorly written the show can be at times. I cringed at the frat-boy shenanigans during Lee's retirement and the constant unsettling treatment of women throughout both episodes was just massively discomfiting. Can Battlestar Galactica get through a season without a woman being throttled, raped or savagely beaten? Not by the looks of it. Has the show always had such a misogynistic streak running through it? Probably, but it seemed amplified in these two episodes.

Other things I didn't like: Grace Park relegated to one or two lines again when she's the best actor on the show. Dee has regressed to the same character she was during season 1. And most horrible of all was Katie Sackhoff's sudden complete lack of acting chops. I know she was pretty much just required to scream her way through the episodes, but any lines she did have were just delivered awfully. Jamie Bamber was pretty terrible (and more wooden than usual) too.

It's still very pretty to look at though!

18:58 / 16.04.08

Can Battlestar Galactica get through a season without a woman being throttled, raped or savagely beaten?

I think, given this is the last season, the answer to this must be 'no'...

Our Lady Has Left the Building

04:55 / 17.04.08

Hmmm, what about the fact that Baltar's imaginary companion now seems to be himself, even if it shares Six's attitude. Anyone care to speculate on that?

And now we have two models of Number Six breaking away from the rest of the Cylons, Caprica Six on the Galactica and this new one that's freeing the slaves by giving them free will.

If Roslin really is leading the fleet the wrong way but Starbuck is going to find the right route to Earth does this mean she is leading the fleet so Roslin doesn't need to be the leader who dies before they reach the promised land? And if so, does the fact that Starbuck died once and was resurrected mean that she also doesn't need to die again before the fleet reach Earth?

How do the Cylons know there are five final models if they aren't allowed to think about them? I'm still holding out for 'humanity' to be the last model...

13:45 / 17.04.08

Hmmm, what about the fact that Baltar's imaginary companion now seems to be himself, even if it shares Six's attitude. Anyone care to speculate on that?

I think it's Caprica Six's imaginary Baltar who switched places with Baltar's imaginary Six, and they are both messager angles from God, who seems to like to play "kick the anthill" with both humans and cylons.

And why is Boomer "Number 8" if she is one of the Seven? Is this a slip from the writers, or does it means the first of the Final Five was built long before the others? is this why Cel Tigh is so much older than the others?

I still want to see how hybrid baby Hera factors in that equation...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:56 / 17.04.08

I don't think model numbers correspond with being part of the seven or the five, Megs. I think Lucy Lawless was a Model Three, wasn't she? Actually, Maybe Sharon was the model three. Basically, they weren't think that far ahead when they started numbering the models...

jentacular dreams

17:17 / 17.04.08

The Final Five are model numbers 7 and 9-12.

I wasn't too keen on the battle sequence. In many ways the graphics seemed 'too good' compared to previous episodes. The appearance of Baltar-in-Baltar's head was a nice surprise though.

18:47 / 17.04.08

I still want to see how hybrid baby Hera factors in that equation...

As well as Chief and Cally's hybrid baby. Presuming Cally isn't a Cylon.

The whole big song and dance about the significance of Hera seems to be a bit undercut by the introduction of another hybrid child, doesn't it?

19:21 / 17.04.08

Just wait until President Assistant Cylon makes Gaius a daddy.

19:36 / 17.04.08

Cavill is Number One, so the first Cylon can't be one of the final five.

What if the first of the five is number 7 - manufactured before 8, but a new type of cylon entirely, able somehow to separate from the other six and think for itself? The six see it as a threat, and attempt to box its model, but at least one escapes, and eventually creates four more models, like itself in abilities. Meanwhile, the six create the eight models as less extreme versions of the seventh - which explains why an eight can vote against its model.

Basically, seven as the Cylon Lucifer, with the other four as rebel angels (which is maybe why they seem the ones most virulently against the Cylons?).

jentacular dreams

12:45 / 18.04.08

So Tyrol then?

Given that the final five are 'funadmentally different' types of cylons to the 'original' seven, Hera may be an entirely different type of hybrid to Nicholas.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

01:45 / 23.04.08

So nobody else is going "FUCK! Cally died!"?

OK. It's just me that actually watches this for the characters then.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

02:53 / 23.04.08

Been working Friday nights, so have to rely on the Accomplice for spoilers. We're both growing increasingly disturbed by the current season, mostly because of the possibly terrible writing.

But I liked her a lot, right from the get-go back in season 1. So bah. Bah I say.

06:18 / 23.04.08

Stoatie - When was the last time Cally was actually in the show doing anything? Here character was effectively dead long before she was spaced.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

08:20 / 23.04.08

Another thing, has anyone else noticed that when an episode concentrates on a sole male character it tends to be non-arc and not that important (Lee in 'Black Market', Bill in 'How I Met Your Crazy Dead Mother', Tyrrel in 'Let's Rip Kids Limbs Off and See if President Roslin Gives a Shit Yet', Helo in 'Okay, Who Replaced the Galactica Crew With A Bunch of Racists', Baltar in numerous episodes) but when you have a female character front and centre it tends to be important and ends with her dying (Boring Girl in 'Razor', Kat in 'The One Where Kat dies', Starbuck in 'WTF? Starbuck Too?!' and now Cally)? Admittedly, once they wrote the scene where Cally finds out it was pretty much unavoidable.

But yes, the writing does seem a little clunky so far this season. There's a bit of 'uncurious motherfrakers' going on about things like Starbuck's Viper and the power loss, which never helps. And look at the crew on Starbuck's ship, Anders I can understand, but why the fuck is Gaeta there? Or Athena and Helo? Or Unnamed Coropral Redshirt? Okay, it's obvious why Corporal Redshirt is there but still...

I think it's possible that the writers missed a trick, rather than sneaking Starbuck into a ship with most of the cast, Adama should have openly declared that the fleet was going to follow her. We would have had an interesting reversal of the end of s.1/beginning of s.2 with Adama following his beliefs rather than Roslin, and making her go to him.

And where exactly is the fleet heading at the moment? The inspiration they got from the temple was only to get them to where they were at the start of the season, so where's Roslin's new visions telling her where to go next? Or are they just dodging around to avoid the Cylon fleet they think is after them?

It doesn't look like we'll be getting any more podcasts any time soon, unless they intend to wait until after the full series has aired.

13:12 / 23.04.08

Yeah, having Athena and Helo on the Earth-scout ship is pretty stupid. Who's taking care of Hera? Or did they take their baby on an extremely dangerous mission led by a mentally unstable possible Cylon.

Sigh.

That was a pretty stupid and offensive episode. Also, unintentionally hilarious. How many times can we have Starbuck say frak before it becomes the most painfully stupid thing ever created? The revelation that Tori might not be the nicest of recently activated Cylons was moderately shocking and an interesting turn. I was going to suggest that maybe Tori didn't mean to kill Cally and was only doing that crazy baby cylon preservation thing they all seem so keen on, but then I realised she happily pressed the switch to space her while letting her baby watch.

So, Cally's time on BSG:

Hang around in the background pining after the Chief.
Shoot Boomer.
Got put in prison.
Almost got raped (which seems to be obligatory for female characters on this show).
Pummeled by the Chief.
Marries and conceives the chief's cylon child.
Gets killed.

Not the happiest of times for poor Cally.

jentacular dreams

15:14 / 23.04.08

You forgot the being on the death-list escapade.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:15 / 23.04.08

As much as I liked BSG earlier in the series, the only way I could conceivably look at the misogynistic undertones without just giving up altogether (which is more of an option, it seems, with each episode) is to assume that they're doing some kind of post-near-genocide "enforced heterosexuality" / "rigid gendering" while they try desperately to re-establish their society. Only that doesn't really work so well and I'm left wondering, again, why the writers hate their female characters so much.

I was talking about it with a friend last night and she's become quite frustrated that all the women end up having emotional breakdowns whenever they're given anything important to do. Other than Emo Apollo being emo, the men don't quite do that in the same way.

Callie -- you know, I wonder how much they planned out her and Tyrol ending up together. When she first showed up at the beginning, I actually didn't think she harboured any feelings for the Chief beyond friendship -- she was too willing to play the buddy and watch out for him while he was with Boomer. On the other hand, they actually had chemistry -- even bickering chemistry -- which is something that can't be said for Apollo and Dee ("Er, Mr. Director? I'm having trouble doing this scene -- Apollo can't seem to emote properly...").

15:44 / 23.04.08

You missed out gets depressed, gets suicidal, thinks her hubby is having an affair, finds out her entire life is a lie, attempts suicide and has her weird-ass hybrid kid snatched from her before getting killed.

Man, that's one fucked over character. What is this, Evangelion?

I'm still happily continuing in a state of lowered expactations after last season and rather enjoying the show now, in a kind of silly it's DS9 only with no decent characters, all of whom you pretty much hate kinda way. You lot that have jumped on my hating bandwagon are like so stuck in some kind of early 2007 timewarp, soon you'll be loving the nonsensical overwroughtness of it all and clapping though each episode like a lobotomised prat.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

18:43 / 23.04.08

DS9 had better characters? You are on the drugs, you are on the drugs right now and they are making you say the crazy.

19:14 / 23.04.08

How many times can we have Starbuck say frak before it becomes the most painfully stupid thing ever created?

Frak you, you frakking mother-frakker! Frak you up your frakking frak-hole!

Jeez...sorry, you didn't deserve that. I'm just a bit frakked-up at the moment. Frak. I don't frakkin' know. Maybe I just need a frakkin' frak or something.

23:35 / 23.04.08

DS9 had better characters?

'Course it bloody did. They were a much more diverse bunch, you knew a hell of a lot more about their histories, their interests, their tastes in food and drink, their odd quirks, their senses of humour, their obsessions. You saw them during downtime, outside of the stories, and you saw them change in some thoroughly unexpected ways. The stories came from the characters, and sometimes from the actors who in some cases became very proprietary about who they believed themselves to be (in one notable case referring to themselves as a custodian of the character).

BSG, on the other hand, seldom shows any character out of a narrative moment. Most of them are featureless, without any kind of history. They don't behave like people, they do and say what they need to for a scene. There are exceptions (Starbuck, Baltar, the two Adamas, Roslyn... erm... I'm stuck) but even they tend to be one or two note parts and pretty predictable in any given situation, and with a large ensemble cast it's not enough for only a handful of them to be able to maintain a viewer's interest. You need to be involved with everyone as much as possible.

It's absolutely possible to achieve this kind of detail and still move a story along. Bleach manages it with a cast of around two hundred named characters and only one writer. We're in year four for BSG and besides knowing that Starbuck is an artist and Adama likes model boats and leather bound books (both essential hobbies for any and all spacefaring captain types since Kirk) what do we know about any of them besides their primary personality traits? Angry and fucked up in love for the former, stern and authoritarian for the latter? I need a bit more than that, please.

23:38 / 23.04.08

Sorry, I forgot about Adama's brainy-specs. Kirk got those in later years too, but they got fucked up when his mate died.

02:46 / 24.04.08

So if Tigh is a cylon and he's been in the service for forty years, then humanoid cylons were around/predate the first cylon war. Or at least final five cylons do. Or maybe he's been replaced (a la marvel's Skrull SECRET INVASION), which would be slightly disappointing.

PS: I am not currently watching s4 (just had an s3 dvd marathon), so apologies if I have raised an issue that has been touched upon.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:28 / 24.04.08

Nope, the final four's identities don't really make any sense (although Tigh especially could have a 'real' existence as long as the Razor Hybrid, the first war was 40 years ago and presumably was chaotic enough that Tigh could be slipped in, maybe he replaced the real (and presumably killed) Saul Tigh?)

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:30 / 24.04.08

Final five might have installed Tigh on Caprica in the first place, as part of a subversive campaign to start a war. To what end? The Daleks probably told them to. Tigh's proximity to Adama would encourage Adama to end up involved in most if not all major encounters with the Cylons, which might ease the broken suspension of disbelief Adama's backstory gives me.

Or maybe the Final Five defected, which is why the other models never speak of them. They could have wiped the Cylon hivemind or One True God or whatever's memory of what they looked like, and gone into human-occupied territory to start up new lives.

Hell, perhaps the original war was there so that the Cylons could discover who the missing five were and reunite with them.

I think in some cases, the lack of characterization may have something to do with not having the energy to spend on developing and explaining an aspect of pre-genocide Colonial society -- hence no flashbacks, really, with Anders playing Pyramid.

But, yeah, the characters on BSG do exist only to serve the narrative, which is one way of going about it -- I tend to prefer stuff where narrative emerges out of charaters, but this is the opposite. It also hints at why I tended to favour the "they're all Cylons!" theory, simply because I do not find most of the characters that engaging except as a unit. Except perhaps Baltar, Caprica/Virtual Sixes, Roslyn and Athena.

jentacular dreams

15:31 / 24.04.08

Looking forward to Tigh's first download - regaining that eye's going to be a big shock for him. That's just speculation, but I can't help feeling it's inevitable.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:32 / 24.04.08

Tigh's role is probably the same as the Sixes, to get close to someone in a position of power and have a relationship with them. Come on, Tigh/Adama oldmanlove! You know you want it!

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:24 / 24.04.08

And a million slashfics were born.

Oh, who am I kidding. They were already there.

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