BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Shut the FUCK UP: the thread for things/people/animals/entities that need to shut up

 
  

Page: 12345(6)78

 
 
Pingle!Pop
09:59 / 29.11.07
oh fuck I think I'm going to be sick

Sick all over his frankly vulgar racist tosspottery?
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
10:06 / 29.11.07
Hmmmm, contrary to the spirit of this thread I'm quite glad Morrisey didn't shut up before spouting that vile crap. This is because he's finally settled the 'is Morrisey a racist cock?' debate pretty clearly in the affirmative with this bunch of garbage.

As Fly has said Morrisey has traditionally had his defenders, who claim that his detractors have just twisted things or got the wrong end of the stick; and before reading this stuff I have to say I might have been inclined to be one of them, so I'm hugely glad to have been enlightened. Still now he's clarified things nicely for us I'd be happy if he shut the fuck up from this point onwards.
 
 
Dead Megatron
10:10 / 29.11.07
Biography should be a point, yes, byt not the only one. Or else, no one would ever be able to enjoy Wagner again.

Anyway, Morrisey? I didn't care for him even when he was cool, back in the 80s.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:15 / 29.11.07
What do you mean, "again"?
 
 
Dead Megatron
10:17 / 29.11.07
"again" as in after learning he was an anti-semite in "pre-volkish" Germain.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:49 / 29.11.07
Oh, for the love of...

Yes, I know that, Megsie. My point was that, haha, Wagner is terrble even if one is ignorant of his views. Hence "again." Era um gracejo.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
10:56 / 29.11.07
It's hardly the first time he's said things along these lines, is it?

I must admit I almost got a chuckle from the big "Has the World Changed or has He Changed?" Headline, the answer is clearly neither.
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:01 / 29.11.07
Yeah, I thought so, but I found it would be best to clarify for those who didn't get it, just to be sure. Words are everything in Barbelith.

Plus, I like it. It is no Ravel or Vivaldi, but the "Ride of the Valkyries" makes me thing of Snoopy doing the Red Baron. That's why I was heartbroken when I first knew of all that and connected the dots.

E, gosto não se discute, as we say.
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:02 / 29.11.07
and by "thing" I mean "think"
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:47 / 29.11.07
This report is very confused. Morrissey has demanded via lawyers that the NME publish a retraction, the journalist that wrote the piece seems to be saying that Moz did say what he said about immigration, yet demanded the NME take his name off the interview because it had been rewritten.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:26 / 29.11.07
And guess what I came to this very thread to post about myself?

Ah, Barbelith, you always get there before me. It's like you're IN MY ACTUAL HEAD!!!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:32 / 29.11.07
It's pretty clear to me that the NME rewrote the text of the piece (i.e. not the quotations) to make the comments on immigration the focus. You can see why they'd do that and why it would annoy the journalist, but it doesn't change what Stephen Patrick said.
 
 
Pingle!Pop
14:38 / 29.11.07
Indeed. The BBC article is a bit unclear, but I read the journalist earlier saying "I wanted my name taken off because they were not my words", not that they were not Moz's.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:39 / 29.11.07
Yeah, I'm pretty much with Petey on this one. I mean, there MAY be some amazing bit of context which they've chosen to ignore which would make it all okay, but I've been trying to think of one for hours and haven't been able to.

He does always seem to have got a bit of a free pass, though, does Moz, and I've long been uncomfortable with some of his "Britishness" schtick...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:43 / 29.11.07
And here's the whole interview.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:31 / 29.11.07
Wagner is terrble even if one is ignorant of his views

I'll fight you... I will...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:07 / 29.11.07
_scarlet_ibis_? SHUT UP. In fact, all those who reply to that claiming they can't see how anyone could even imagine that Moz says anything that could be interpreted as racist ever, SHUT UP. Admitting that he says something dodgy and then seems to deal with it by insisting he's not a racist but not really explaining why he said the words he said does not mean that you think he's a racist, just that you are capable of basic English comprehension.

Of course, if you could do that you probably wouldn't bother reading the NME.
 
 
captain piss
17:12 / 29.11.07
I have to say I really don’t find his comments necessarily racist at all. It doesn’t even seem like he’s trying to stir up trouble. He just seems to be saying what he believes.

But maybe my racial-sensitivity antennae are just a bit unresponsive and rubbish. If someone can help me understand I’d be grateful.

He possibly does have a point that Britain is changing its identity quicker than these other European countries because of the high levels of immigration. Is it possible to say that without being racist? Is it that sensitive an issue that it can’t even be approached?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:20 / 29.11.07
He doesn't have a point. Note the position of Germany, Switzerland and the UK on this list.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:41 / 29.11.07
And the notion of national identity - an easily identifiable national identity, at that - is pretty open to ridicule anyway.

Fundamentally, what he's saying is that he wishes that it was still 1954.
 
 
Char Aina
18:11 / 29.11.07
Because then he'd still not yet be the man he is today, and so free of this damnable, miserable world filled with unlcean wretches....
Man, Morrisey is totally emo-hitler.
 
 
Ex
18:34 / 29.11.07
radges, I haven't walked through Knightsbridge recently, but I have walked around Kensington and Islington which I believe to be equivalently wealthy bits of London, and Morrissey's talking rubbish. Of course these places are still full of people with English accents. He's using hyperbolic, untrue, striking images to ramp up anxieties and generate indignation.

I think it is racist. It assumes that there's some kind of stable national identity (which is untrue, but potentially not racist). But then it assumes that the best people to continue and sustain that national identity are the ones who are already living here, presumably descended from people who have been living here for a while, too.

Even if there were some kind of intrinsic Britishness, or Englishness, which was all about making jam and reading PG Wodehouse and the Queen and the Church of England, why on earth would it be the prerogative of the indigenous and indigenous-descended people to sustain it?
I fail to see why someone who comes from a different country living here and - I grasp for an example - watching Shakespeare or playing cricket is somehow diluting the national character, whereas me - being an atheist anti-Royalist non-jam-maker - am somehow sustaining the national 'flavour'.
So he may be talking about 'national character' rather than race, explicitly, but then he's suggesting that one's support of a national culture depends not on what you do, but where you're from, who your parents are.

Although I may, in turn, be missing a point, because I can't see how there can be any kind of British national identity which isn't built on historical and continuing (often hugely exploitative) internationalism and immigration.
 
 
captain piss
08:43 / 30.11.07
Fair enough. I’ve no particular affinity with anyone else’s idea of what British-ness should be either – and yeah, it is pretty difficult to present an idea of what British nationality means that doesn’t build on a whole load of exploitation and colonialism and other shit. Hm. Well, ta for patiently unravelling that bit a little more.
 
 
johnny enigma
08:52 / 30.11.07
Cheers On Final for that link. It made your point very nicely.

As soon as I heard about all this, I went and read the article. I definitely think that Morrissey should SHUT THE FUCK UP, both with his racist views and his legal harrassment of the NME. He's a clever enough guy to realsie that his comments were bound to stir up controversy, and then he winges about it after the fact? Please, spare us. Things change, England changes - get used to it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:54 / 30.11.07
I notice that when The Decline of England gets kvetched about no-one ever mentions fucking McDonalds.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:02 / 30.11.07
I've heard them do that, and it's not as if Morrisey hasn't written a song lambasting America (a very bad song). Complaining about McDonalds isn't always unproblematic, though.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:14 / 30.11.07
True. I wasn't thinking so much about lambasting America though, I was thinking more of the very real damage done by multinationals to the actual structure of the UK (and, arguably, its "identity.")

I don't even think of McDonald's as "American" exactly, it seems to hail more from some kind of CorpSpace.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:30 / 30.11.07
Yeah - 'We don't like Mcdonalds' can sometimes = 'We don't like those poor people and the places they eat.' It needn't do, of course, and usually doesn't if there's a serious reason for person's dislike of McD's, such as their treatment of staff, aninmals, etc.

Why doesn't biography influence your veiws on art? surely an artists background and veiws are an essential part of the context within which the art is veiwed? art doesn't exist in a vacuum, and nor should it.

Well, first you'll find that an awful lot of artisitic traditions - in fact most of the good ones - have absolutely no regard for the artists' 'views', and instead focus on perfecting a kind of ideal form: so Greek statues, Egyptian wall paintings, that sort of thing (although this is a generalisation). The idea of the individual artists' point of view - their subjectivity - being important arises at some point during the capitalist epoch, so is quite recent; and even in things like lyric poetry (Donne, Marvell, Shakespeare) the speaker in the poem is to a large degree a kind of personae - the Tragic Lover or the Machiavellian Revenger, and so on - rather than being the individual writer's thoughts and feelings (although these may play a part).

So there's that. There's also the fact that most people who managed to create beautiful things got up to some rather disgusting behaviour, or lived in a time remote from ours so that we can't help disagreeing with them to some extent. Yet the value of the things they produced remains.

Not much of which pontificating, I have to say, applies to Morrisey, who is certainly small beer compared to Donne, but I do like the aesthetic and the tunes. It wouldn't be as terrible a sacrifice to stop listening to Morrisey because one feels that he thinks some rot, as it would be to stop reading Baudelaire because he was probably cruel and unusual to lots of people.

I would like to reiterate that apart from them usic, Morrisey, as an authority on immigration, = crock of shite.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:41 / 30.11.07
Yeah - 'We don't like Mcdonalds' can sometimes = 'We don't like those poor people and the places they eat.'

Oh fuck you're right, I forgot about that for a minute. "Fnar fnar McDonald's Starburger Burberry pram-face Iceland oven-chips council house fnar" shut up shut up shut UP.


Edit: Starburger not Starbucks.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:42 / 30.11.07
Morrissey's manager's point of view. Basically, the NME turned a 'perfectly valid' nostalgia for the 1950s into racism, then didn't talk to them about it so they couldn't do anything to stop it being published.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:44 / 30.11.07
Also "Americans beef fat guns supersize talk too loud fnar fnar fnar." Shut up shut UP.
 
 
Mistoffelees
11:19 / 30.11.07
McDonald's and Starbucks might be cheap in the States, here in Germany their burgers and coffees are not cheap at all, though. Especially Starbucks coffee is ridiculously expensive (I´d have to pay at least three times as much as if I´d got one at a subway station). A couple of weeks ago, the first McDonald´s ever opened in Kreuzberg, and there were lots of protests and demonstrations against it, and it wasn´t well off people that protested. And if people want to eat cheap, they eat a döner kebab, and not a McBurger.
 
 
grant
14:07 / 30.11.07
Actually, Starbucks is pricey here in the States, too. Just not pricey enough for people not to buy it. It's... bizarre.

$4.00 for a coffee???
 
 
Mistoffelees
14:19 / 30.11.07
And the big joke is on the customer, paying for playing the waiter.
 
 
Char Aina
14:49 / 30.11.07
I worked for starbucks once. While there I learned that the pricing is kept high, so as to signify to the buyer that theirs is a luxury item.

It's like cocaine; if one paid less for it, many people would think less of it. The high price ensures exclusivity and a sense of class.
 
  

Page: 12345(6)78

 
  
Add Your Reply