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Son Of Barbannoy

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16:22 / 18.07.07

I've always felt whinging to be quieter and more sincere, whereas whining is louder, possibly more nasal, and possible less sincere.

But that's just me.

17:41 / 18.07.07

Seeing as how the Lith is the only place I've ever encountered "whinging" my thoughts are:
North Americans whine while Europeans whinge. The rest of the world.. I havent a clue as to what they do.

17:48 / 18.07.07

Hey! Don't blanket me with your whinge-bomb!

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:43 / 19.07.07

And, speaking of whinging, I'm slightly annoyed that today I can't even manage the energy to be annnoyed particularly. It's just so depressing to see how easy it is for somebody to turn themselves into a temporary-visa troll, and also how attractive it is. A bit of self-delusion, a bit of laziness, a bit of moral cowardice and there you are - boom! You're on a visitor's visa to Douchitania.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:34 / 20.07.07

...although that whole "you are using people's old nicks to perform nefarious mental mentalism on the reader" thing did actually give me a laugh.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

09:59 / 20.07.07

Although what's really annoying me is my inability to focus on anything on Barbelith beyond the gahhhh right now. There's threads in the Temple I want to contribute to, thing sI want to ask people about various debates, and stunning new wrinkles in the field of kitteh that I wish to share with the world, but as soon as I open the page and see "BARBELITH" at the top, I think "oh, the place of fite" and my heart sinks into my boots.

Blahhhhh.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:01 / 20.07.07

That was a moment of high Whatery - and the response to you was quality. And then one has to try to address the accusation, however barmy it is, which wastes even more time and pulls the thread even further away from a) topic and b) Earth-Prime. Which means that you yourself are contributing to the problem - it's a no-win situation.

10:15 / 30.07.07

I feel pettier, posting this, but the 'shut up...' thing annoys me, just because it seems dismissive not of the repetitive rut the person may be in, nor of them having run out of anything useful to say, but more a 'shut up' because of a platform they've got. I actually doubt that's what's motivating people who use the phrase, but it's the first thing that comes to mind. It reads petty and unhelpful to me, to some other people, even when the posters in question clearly aren't generally petty or unhelpful, or inarticulate about other things. I mean, I'm all for telling someone who won't quit screeching in your ear, or who's actively arranging political or social forces loudly and forcefully, but it's pretty easy to avoid Ellis or Gaiman or virtually any other author if you want to. No one's shoving their books or online ramblings in your face, normally, and quite a large number of contemporary human beings have managed to never mark the author's name, face, or body of work.

People live their whole lives without ever seeing anybody's Suicide Girls supported screed or knowing that sometimes 'Dreaming' might be a noun. Proper one, even.

And I rarely seem to find 'shut up...' in regards to any political figure, where it might make more sense. 'Shut up, Cheney.' 'Shut up, Blair.' 'Shut up, Swaggart.'

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:13 / 30.07.07

Well, DN, that may be because uncritical appreciation and aggressive defending of basically substandard work rarely comes up on Barbelith in relation to Cheney or Swaggart. Whereas the "Shut up"s tend to occur as a consequence of same - that is, they are a reaction to people attempting to lower the standard of acceptable discussion on Barbelith. In the case of "Shut up, Gaiman", this spun out into a lengthy and impressive prose poem. "Shut up" acknowledges, I think, that the problem is rarely purely the creator or the fans, but a dynamic created by both.

So, I think that your accounting of three possible reasons for saying it:

1) The subject is in a repetitive rut
2) The subject has run out of things to say
3) The subject has a platform

Is incomplete and quite possibly just wrong.

Having said which, I certainly wouldn't support anyone marking anyone's body of work, unless by highlighting particularly beautiful and evocative passages, or dog-earing favourite pages. And the face is right out.

In this case, however, although Pacific State's "Shut up" was perfectly timed, mine was admittedly of poor quality, and I submit my apologies.

Tiny reciprocal Barbannoy:

I actually doubt that's what's motivating people who use the phrase, but it's the first thing that comes to mind.

Often, the first thing that comes to mind is not the thing that might usefully be spoken. If one genuinely doubts something, it is often better not to outline it in the first place. Something thought need not be something said.

All Acting Regiment

12:16 / 30.07.07

I support Shut Up! but think it best used sparingly as a special rod, and probably best in the Conversation, and not on Barbelith posters, even if we want to, even if the Sympathetic Soul of the Ominverse materialises as a glowing blue flame burning from ice and singing with the voice of an Ionian sheperd-girl with a throat strung from gold and silver, and wants to, because it will only encourage them.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

13:42 / 30.07.07

I swear I created the STFU thread before I read all that.

I swear.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

13:47 / 30.07.07

Having read your thread first, LTIY, I was rather perplexed.

Having gone to the thread in books--well, I was reading it in hopes of deciding whether or not it was worth picking up the book in question, but can not pull anything worthwhile (in either direction) from what anyone's said. I did look at the sample chapters and was pretty much bored out of my mind, so I'll probably skip it in favour of other things.

It is nice to see some movement in the Books, but at what cost? At what cost?

17:19 / 30.07.07

If one genuinely doubts something, it is often better not to outline it in the first place.

I just meant that it's not just the bad-readers or the deliberately trolling who can misread a post and attribute (the wrong) negative aspects to another poster, which can come back later to haunt the whole board or become a constant bit of friction between two or more posters. Especially if they aren't familiar with parts (or times) of the board in which the poster has proven themselves useful, analytical, or otherwise a good sort or something. It's usually the bad-readers and deliberately baiting, but I've seen it effect what I consider to be some of the best posters on the 'lith.

ONLY NICE THINGS

19:05 / 30.07.07

Well, if you've seen it so affect some of the best posters on the 'Lith, that is certainly an experience to be respected, although offhand I'm having trouble thinking of anyone apart from Paranoidwriter and possibly Mathlete who couldn't get the hang of it - on the other hand, we may well have different ideas about who the best posters on Barbelith are.

19:33 / 30.07.07

You're right as far as perpetual problems go, but surely you've noted the occasional misinterpretation of a post that feeds into something larger from arguably sensible posters? Even, sometimes, just the style of a post or poster, has effects separate from what the words are actually meaning.

It's just the bad ones who can't let it go, or admit they were mistaken.

And, yes, it was a bad call on my part to detail thoughts I know aren't right, even under the auspices of knowing they aren't right and trying to be clear about that. If it seemed like a sideswipe at anybody, I'm sorry for that.

I'm not totally against 'shut up Gaiman' or whatever, in Conversation, or something. Maybe Bill O'Reilly has just ruined it, for me, as a stand alone phrase of any integrity? Anyway, it's just a personal issue, and probably not really something that would be the end of Barbelith as we know it, or anything.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

22:23 / 30.07.07

As a contributor to the SHUT UP GAIMAN thread, I'd just like it to be made clear that, as far as my contribution was concerned, I just wanted Gaiman to SHUT UP. Nothing more, nothing less.

And, God help me, I still do.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

09:52 / 31.07.07

Jonathan Ross makes Neil Gaiman SHUT UP, albeit temporarily.

For all you fans of HOTT SHUT UP action.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:34 / 31.07.07

You're right as far as perpetual problems go, but surely you've noted the occasional misinterpretation of a post that feeds into something larger from arguably sensible posters? Even, sometimes, just the style of a post or poster, has effects separate from what the words are actually meaning.

It's just the bad ones who can't let it go, or admit they were mistaken.

OK. I think what you're saying there is going beyond the "Shut up, (name)" gag, and making a broader point to the effect that if you say something, somebody else might interpret your words or your tone in a particular way, might subsequently take against you and might as a result of that might behave badly at a later date, yes? In which case I certainly agree with that possibility, but I don't quite understand what one can do to forestall it, except possibly not to say anything ever, or alternatively to explain everything one says in exacting detail, neither of which options seems viable in practice.

I can see an argument against "shut up, (name)" - several arguments, in fact, but a case against speech in general is trickier. It seems a bit dressed-like-that.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

13:57 / 31.07.07

In which case I certainly agree with that possibility, but I don't quite understand what one can do to forestall it, except possibly not to say anything ever, or alternatively to explain everything one says in exacting detail, neither of which options seems viable in practice.

Thinking about what one is posting before (and while) one posts it helps the problem to some degree, has been proclaimed a major element of good Barbeculture for quite some time now, and often comes up as a solution to these scuffles and arguments. Which doesn't prevent misinterpretations or messy moments, but can probably cut them down to a certain extent. It is not, of course, universally possible -- sometimes people just post in haste, or drunkenly, and things are going to happen. Barbelith is not a "safe space" in a lot of ways, and there's always going to be the possibility you'll have to explain yourself.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:44 / 31.07.07

Oh so that's who IVoR is! It all falls into place now.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:14 / 31.07.07

Oh, is he about again?

21:07 / 31.07.07

For all you fans of HOTT SHUT UP action.

If I was the Lord Shaper, then as Ross loomed in during that terrible moment, I'd have given him a proper slap, right, and then a serious shoeing when he was down on the ground.

Fashionable leather blouson or not, the Prince of Stories does not deserve to treated like that.

And especially not by Jonathan Ross, of all people - Surely the counter culture's Des O'Connor's been having trouble sleeping ever since?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

21:10 / 31.07.07

SHUT UP granny.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

06:38 / 01.08.07

Yeah.

But this is not giving me the results I desire...

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:45 / 01.08.07

No, but I mean... surely Jonathan Ross does have a worse annoying/worthwhile ratio than Neil Gaiman? I haven't watched the clip yet - can somehow summarise what is actually said?

11:55 / 01.08.07

I suspect you might have to put fingers to keyboard yourself, ROFLADY.

The thing is, can anyone seriously picture Ross trying the same stunt with Alan Moore? And if not, as seems likely, wasn't ker-azy old Jonathan just picking on the King of Dreams because he's delicate?

All Acting Regiment

12:33 / 01.08.07

{THIS IS AN IRONY TAG} He's a bully ... like all the others ... put a spell on him, Neil! {THIS IS AN IRONY TAG}

14:44 / 01.08.07

I had no idea who Jonathan Ross is, so I looked him up. And he seems to have a cruel streak, the names of his children are Honey Kinney, Harvey Kirby and Betty Kitten. That´s harsh.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:26 / 03.08.07

Strangely, I always hated Jonathan Ross on telly. But when I was working at a certain large comic shop, he turned out to be the nicest customer one could wish for.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:05 / 07.08.07

...is not relevant to the work that others, like Papers and interval, are talking about doing in their work on new software or modifications of existing software.

I guess I disagree. Papers is talking about doing a lot of technical work to implement a feature (distributed moderation) that I think one would be better off without.

Only a minor Barbannoy not directly at anybody in particular, spawned by this thread over in the Policy: being mentioned in a thread and having no idea what someone is even talking about. Have I been sleep-coding a distributed moderation feature? Have I inadvertantly stolen someone else's suitname? Has someone stolen mine? Have I stumbled onto the evil universe's version of Barbelith? Is this a Body-Snatchers thing (we have come to your world to replace you and misrepresent your technical savvy!)?

More than likely someone misattributed someone else's post to me, but that's still really weird to deal with first thing in the morning.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:14 / 07.08.07

I think he meant "Paleface", if it helps.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

14:25 / 07.08.07

Ah, that makes more sense.

14:54 / 07.08.07

I hate it when a good thread dissolves into unhappiness even with everyone's best intent to try and contribute something useful. I feel unable to lend aid or help posters I value see the benefit of each other's view points. It pisses me off that I sound like a hippy spinster aunt entreating everyone to play nice when I know everyone is motivated by the desire to support people they value.

I wish I had something more profound to offer than to ask people to listen with compassion but even that seems to be an annoying request.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

14:57 / 07.08.07

everyone's best intent to try and contribute something useful.

I dispute that.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:05 / 07.08.07

I know everyone is motivated by the desire to support people they value.

Actually, I wasn't. (Doesn't this count as assuming you know anything about the other poster's agenda or intent in writing anything in thread?) I do support and value Live things/Mordant, but we don't agree about absolutely everything, and I wouldn't go into a thread about a subject I don't know much about just to back her up. The things I said occurred to me, occurred to me. No other agenda.

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