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Son Of Barbannoy

 
  

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petunia
17:50 / 28.06.07
Tomorrow. My house.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
18:20 / 28.06.07
uhm...like I just asked in the questions thread...why don't you (somebody) just grab a free message board and get going?
 
 
Spaniel
18:44 / 28.06.07
Because we want somewhere with a certain level of functionality and we'd like to be able to add to that functionality if possible and a lot of us don't have the time to take on something which might well take a fair bit of time, personal investment, and involve an unwanted dose of responsibility.

That's how I feel, anyway. I have quite enough going on in my life.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
18:48 / 28.06.07
hmm. okay.

I was (very possibly mistakenly) thinking that these DIY places did most of the work for you.

Also I was/am thinking along the lines of people who seem to have time to post lots of posts probably have time to do moderaty stuff. And one of the two major goals of moving would be to have lots of people sharing the Responsible part rather than one person who might leave.

Maybe message boards are much more tricky than I think. I will make a sample one to test myself and report back.
 
 
Spaniel
18:54 / 28.06.07
I was (very possibly mistakenly) thinking that these DIY places did most of the work for you.

Oh, I'm no expert, but the thought of how much work might be involved has kind of quashed my curiosity. If I'm honest I really want someone else to do the legwork - someone else who's a lot more time rich, and burdened with considerably less reposnsibilty.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
19:06 / 28.06.07
It needs a proper administrator - somebody who has the will, technical know-how and time to dedicate to it. There's no point in doing anything if we're just going to end up in a similar situation elsewhere.
 
 
petunia
19:10 / 28.06.07
The important question is: 'What does Denfield think?'
 
 
Spaniel
19:13 / 28.06.07
Um...

Be good robots?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:38 / 28.06.07
is there no way to distribute the admin privileges?

surely even in the worst case the mods can share a super password or something.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:54 / 28.06.07
Hmm.

Looks like I can make multiple admins, who would have the same privileges as me.

Seriously, I think one single person out of the thousands here could spend half a weekend and be 90% of the way to Barbelith 2. And then pass admin privs around so they're not over-burdened fixing/designing the rest.

I'll play around some and make sure when I get home - right now my work internet is flaky.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:14 / 28.06.07
The real problem isn't technical, but human. How do you ensure that the people you want will join your new board? Especially if there are several starting up at about the same time. For all its many faults, Barbelith has aggregated a specific group of people, and although a good number have left, some of them because of the technical limitations of the place, there's no guarantee that they would come back, or that others would want to make that particular move. It's tricky - Barbelith as it stands is broken, but it's broken in a familiar way...
 
 
petunia
21:36 / 28.06.07
But... but...

Ganesh said he might come back...

Ganesh!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:37 / 28.06.07
Also, bear in mind that there's probably something more like fifty regularly active members here, not the thousands that the board makes it look like.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
10:19 / 29.06.07
How do you ensure that the people you want will join your new board?

I can imagine schemes to ensure that the people who *are* joining my board are people from Barbelith. but yeah, there's no way at all to ensure that people from Barbelith would want to join said board. can't help you with that.

okay, I'll leave it alone then.
 
 
matthew.
13:55 / 29.06.07
This is definite Barbannoy. What the hell is going on with the book forum right now? The only thread that's getting any action is the "What should a fourteen year old girl read?" and this thread is getting dangerously list-y. I'm not quadruple posting in the Cormac McCarthy thread. He's the only author I've been reading and I want to talk about it, but noooooooooooooooooooooo. We'd much rather make suggestions on what a fourteen year old girl should read.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:57 / 29.06.07
Perhaps you should suggest that she should read Cormac McCarthy?

I'm not terribly Barbannoyed this morning, but perhaps I haven't spelunked the threads to find anything truly worthy of my ire. Bit annoyed by other things, nothing too tragic, just early morning cranky-pants feelings. Blah.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:53 / 29.06.07
Well, the idea is not a bad one - if Barbelith isn't working, and is unlikely to get fixed, which seems likely, given that Tom is a) not able to spare the time to fix it and b) is not willing to give control to anyone else who might be able to fix it, as far as we can tell, then it makes good sense to work out a migration strategy. Some people have already effectively done this, either by leaving, migrating their time to LiveJournal or similar sites, or just going to the pub.

So, nothing wrong with a replacement Barbelith, but it's not really just about the technological solution. We need some social engineering as well.
 
 
*
17:35 / 29.06.07
Perhaps this will be of some use?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
18:02 / 29.06.07
I suppose to some extent that if you wanted to increase some interest in a new site, it might help to do stuff here at Barbelith which needs to be done anyway (and has, sporadically, already started) - namely having big long discussions and voting on a name/focus for the new site, who should be Moderators, etc.

to spare any one person having to do loads, I'd invite like 5 people from here and make them all admins also, then they can each invite 5 to make Mods, then those 25 Mods can each invite 5 users...kind of thing. sounds pretty but probably wouldn't work too smoothly.

I guess it's confusing - people want a break from the Barbelith name and the idea that this place is about Chaos Magic and the Invisibles and Grant Morrison, but at the same time people want to keep (mostly) the same crowd and mostly the same design/conversation topics.

and I bet if you ask what to change design/topic wise the conversation would be long, many-sided and inconclusive.

the things I think you could get a consensus or at least majority on are

1. Power to ban users and make changes not subject to one person who is mostly absent, but rather active member(s).

2. Enough sharing of power/responsibility going on to achieve some level-headedness and not overworking the core corps.

3. Some way to reduce influx of dipsticks and yahoos.

These three things will all be more or less immediately achieved by moving. (the third one only because you'd be losing the name and some of the association with Barbelith as an extra dipstick magnet - obviously you're still going to get loads of dipsticks, this is the internet.)
 
 
matthew.
23:25 / 30.06.07
I hate that thread. I hate it.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:37 / 30.06.07
These three things will all be more or less immediately achieved by moving. (the third one only because you'd be losing the name and some of the association with Barbelith as an extra dipstick magnet - obviously you're still going to get loads of dipsticks, this is the internet.)

'And what do you think, Mr Slave?'

'Jesus Christ!'
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
00:50 / 07.07.07
Back a couple of days and I'm already thinking of munging my password.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:54 / 07.07.07
Go beat up on KEG, it'll make you feel better.
 
 
Liger Null
01:29 / 07.07.07
I'm annoyed by all these suggestions that Barbelith is "broken" or "dying."

There is nothing wrong with Barbelith that isn't equally wrong with any other internet board, in fact it's better than most. Yes we often get some real assholes posting here, but they are eventually either eliminated or taught to play nice.

I rather like the sparseness of the design; the limitations of the internal search engine are regrettable but something I've learned to live with. Plus Barbelith posters have developed and uncanny knack for turning dross into comedy gold.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:35 / 07.07.07
Ah, he sees the swan gliding, and sees not the ferocious paddling of webbed feet.
 
 
Liger Null
02:03 / 07.07.07
Good Point.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:01 / 10.07.07
Ahhhhh!

Please make the bad thing that makes my head fill with the icky screams of death leave the "Lovely Pictures for Haus" thread. Me hates it.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:23 / 10.07.07
There is nothing wrong with Barbelith that isn't equally wrong with any other internet board

There really is.
 
 
This Sunday
10:47 / 15.07.07
I think I put a notion of there's no such thing as shutting your brain off in at least three posts, in three different threads, this week. Possibly two of those were in response to the same person. And, yet, Barbelith did not swallow them whole to spare me looking repetitive or just argumentative, nor have the years of posting taught me when to not type replies.

Barbelith, Barbelith, lama sabachthani?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:10 / 15.07.07
Yeah, there's a reason I haven't posted on that thread, even though I'm reading it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:17 / 18.07.07
This is a The Policy. It is made of fail and whinge.
 
 
Ticker
10:09 / 18.07.07
ok I can't take it any more.

Please link me to a post that properly explains the difference between whinge and whine please.
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:27 / 18.07.07
whinge, v.

orig. Sc. and north. dial.

[North. form of OE. hwinsian, corresp. to OHG. win(i)sôn (MHG. winsen; cf. MHG., G. winseln):{em}OTeut. *{chi}winis{omac}jan, f. root of hwínan to WHINE. For the suffix cf. OE. cl{aeacu}nsian to CLEANSE, bletsian to BLESS, rícsian to rule, ON. hreinsa to cleanse; for the phonology of the form whinge cf. CLENGE, ringe, north. forms of CLEANSE, RINSE.]

intr. To whine; esp. to complain peevishly. Hence {sm}whinging (also w(h)ingeing) vbl. n. and ppl. a.
a1150 MS. C.C.C. Camb. 303 125/7 Mid hwinsunge & mid dreori{asg}um mode hio [sc. the dogs] cerdon ealle on{asg}ean to {th}an hunten. Ibid. 126/14 {Th}a hundes ne {asg}eswicon to hwinsianne mid ceariendre stæmne. 1513 DOUGLAS Æneis XIII. iii. 28 The remanent of that questing sort,..about the master hunteir With quhyngeand mouthis quaikand standis for feir. Ibid. 32 Thai hald thar mowthis still, Thar quhingeing and thar questing at his will Refrenis. 1562 WIN{ygh}ET Cert. Tractates Wks. (S.T.S.) I. 8 Dum doggis, quha..dar nother quhryne nor quhynge. 1720 C'TESS COWPER Diary (1864) 152 The second Time she said, whingeing [etc.]. 1725 RAMSAY Gentle Sheph. I. i, Daft Gowk! leave off that silly whindging Way. 1727 P. WALKER Life Semple etc. (1827) 316 You will die honourably before many Witnesses,..and I will die whinging upon a Pickle Straw. 1728 RAMSAY Last Sp. Miser xviii, The mair they whing'd, it gart me hug My swelling Purses. 1760-72 H. BROOKE Fool of Qual. (1792) I. v. 159 A little beggar boy,..whinging and shivering with cold. 1790 BURNS Elegy Capt. M{em} H{em} Epit. viii, Ony whiggish whingin' sot. a1837 R. NICOLL Poems (1842) 17, I needna greet, What gude on earth wad whingeing do? 1867 P. FITZGERALD Seventy-five Brooke St. I. xxi, This mean, whinging fellow. 1907 J. M. SYNGE Let. 31 Mar. (1971) 121 Forgive this contemptible sort of whinging. I am so lonely and miserable I cant help it. 1922 JOYCE Ulysses 10 You crossed her last wish in death and yet you sulk with me because I don't whinge like some hired mute from Lalouette's. 1946 K. TENNANT Lost Haven (1947) xvii. 272 She had lifted up her brief skirt..to exhibit her sand-fly bites... ‘You don't want to whinge about them... You had a good time, didn't you?’ 1955 S. BECKETT Molloy II. 172, I forgot that my son would be at my side,..whinging for food. 1965 Listener 2 Sept. 339/2 There is a stinging phrase in use, ‘wingeing Poms’ (translate into ‘complaining English’). 1969 Advertiser (Adelaide) 12 May 5/4 Stop whingeing and give a bloke a go, mates. 1973 B. BAINBRIDGE Dressmaker 8 If that girl didn't stop her wingeing, the neighbours would be banging on the wall. 1983 Times Lit. Suppl. 11 Mar. 236/1 In 1849, Arnold whinged to Clough that the age was ‘..unpoetical’. 1983 Sunday Times 31 July 33/1 ‘What sort of people do Australians hate most?’ ‘The whingeing Pom... Poms that come over and do nothing but whinge.’ 1984 Times 20 Jan. 10/7 This is not the month for whingeing criticisms. 1984 Sunday Times 9 Dec. 7/1 All must drill most Tuesday nights..and not whinge when the trousers of their best suits are crumpled and smutted under the uniform.


whereas

whine, v.

[OE. hwínan (only in Wídsí{edh} 128, of the whizzing of an arrow) = ON. hvína (Sw. hvina, Da. hvine) to whiz, whistle in the air; the weak grade of the stem is represented in ON. hvinr whiz, late OE. hwinsian (of dogs) to whine (see WHINGE).]

1. intr. To utter a low somewhat shrill protracted sound or cry, usually expressive of pain or distress; to cry in a subdued plaintive tone: also occasionally merely referring to the tone. a. of persons.
c1275 Sinners Beware 310 in O.E. Misc. 82 For chele hy gunne hwyne. For hunger hi hedde pyne. 13.. in Rel. Ant. II. 245 Ich rede tha come nou to me, anaunter last ha whyne. 1526 Pilgr. Perf. (W. de W. 1531) 158 Not chauntyng nor brekyng your notes, nor whynynge in ye nose as many women done. 1534 MORE Comf. agst. Trib. II. Wks. 1182/2 Yet canne thys peuyshe gyrl neuer ceace whining and pulyng for fear. c1590 J. STEWART Poems (S.T.S.) II. 54 Scho quhyns, Scho schrinks, Scho vreyis, Scho vips for vo. 1606 SHAKES. Ant. & Cl. III. xiii. 101 Whip him..Till like a Boy you see him crindge his face, And whine aloud for mercy. a1654 SELDEN Table-T. (Arb.) 92 If a Man should make love in an ordinary Tone, his Mistress would not regard him; and therefore he must whine. a1700 B. E. Dict. Cant. Crew, To Whine, to cry squeekingly, as at Conventicles. 1727 GAY Begg. Op. I. xiii, The Boy thus, when his Sparrow's flown,..Whines, whimpers, sobs and cries. 1852 THACKERAY Esmond II. xiii, The crowd of beggars..whining for alms. 1868 L. M. ALCOTT Little Women viii, You can't go, Amy; so don't be a baby and whine about it.

b. of animals, esp. dogs; also formerly, to whinny as a horse, or to cry as an otter.
13.. Guy Warw. (A.) 1336 {Th}e helmes {th}ai seyen bri{ygh}t schine, {Th}e stedes nyen, and togider whine. c1386 CHAUCER Wife's Prol. 386 As an hors I koude byte and whyne [v.r. whine]. c1400 Beryn 481 He..scrapid the dorr welplich, & wynyd with his mowith, Aftir a doggis lyden. 1481 CAXTON Reynard xxxiv. (Arb.) 97, I saide I was also hongry, thenne wente we..and fond nothyng, tho whyned he and cryed. 1576 TURBERV. Venerie 238 An Otter whineth. 1577 WHETSTONE Gascoigne xxix, The horse..will neither winch nor whine. 1605 SHAKES. Macb. IV. i. 2 Thrice the brinded Cat hath mew'd..Thrice, and once the Hedge-Pigge whin'd. 1735 SOMERVILLE Chase II. 118 Let each Lash Bite to the Quick, 'till howling he return And whining creep amid the trembling Crowd. 1812 BYRON Ch. Har. I. Song ‘Good Night’ ix, Perchance my dog will whine in vain, Till fed by stranger hands. 1835 W. IRVING Tour Prairies 272 Occasionally a scoundrel wolf would scour off..and..sit down and howl and whine.

c. transf. of inanimate objects.
1874 J. G. HOLLAND Mistr. Manse xviii. 52 Till the old chimney howled and whined. 1885 TENNYSON Balin & Balan 341 The canker'd boughs..Whined in the wood. 1901 Munsey's Mag. XXIV. 555/1 The bullets..whined through the air. 1962 Which? Car Suppl. Oct. 140/1 Engine always whined when started from cold. 1972 Daily Tel. 16 May 9 Two minutes after the jet engines whine to a standstill she walked slowly down the special lateral gangplank. 1974 S. MIDDLETON Holiday iv. 42 Lawn-mowers whined.

2. To utter complaints in a low querulous tone; to complain in a feeble, mean, or undignified way.
1530 TINDALE Num. xi. 18 Ye haue whyned in the eares of the Lorde saynge: who shall geue vs flesh to eate? 1568 Hist. Jacob & Esau II. iv, See and the knaue be not for his dinner whining. 1654 WHITLOCK Zootomia 29 Since Life is but as a Game at Tables, if the fore-game be not to thy wish; neither whine nor Curse, but rowse thy care to an after-Game. 1756 JOHNSON in Boswell, I know not why any one but a school-boy in his declamation should whine over the Common-wealth of Rome. 1769 Ibid., A man knows it [sc. death] must be so, and submits. It will do him no good to whine. 1880 DIXON Windsor III. xxiv. 238 He had whined and begged for liberty. 1891 KIPLING Light that Failed x, I won't whine when my punishment comes.

3. trans. a. To cause to pass away by whining; to waste in whining.
1607 SHAKES. Cor. V. vi. 98 At his Nurses teares He whin'd and roar'd away your Victory. 1656 OSBORN Adv. Son iii. (ed. 4) 100 That Taylor, reported to have whin'd away himselfe for the love of Queen Elizabeth.

b. To utter in a whining tone.
1698 FRYER Acc. E. India & P. 282 At the Reading the Epistle and Gospel, they change their Cope, Mantle, and Hood, and Whine them forth. a1699 J. BEAUMONT Psyche I. ccxxiv, To sigh, and weep, and whine Out long complaints. 1781 COWPER Conversat. 577 Canting and whining out all day the word. 1848 DICKENS Dombey xxx, ‘If one is to go on living through continual scenes like this,’ she whined. 1880 M. E. BRADDON Just as I am iii, Tomorrow morning he will be whining his recantation.


Hence the use of 'whinge' suggests a Scottish or Northern English origin, according to OED. Rare to find such little difference in two English words. I think my choice of which to use depends on the surrounding consonant sounds I'm choosing as much as anything.
 
 
grant
15:56 / 18.07.07
"Whinge" always sounds more like a mutter to me, something that's slightly inward-directed, while "whine" is a full-voiced complaint. Probably has to do with the difference between the vowels and the mouth-shapes that follow.

The whinger says, "Gawd, this paper cut, it hurts, you know? I cut my finger on that paper." while the whiner says, "Owww, my paper cut hurts! Don't you have a band-aid? It really hurts!"
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:04 / 18.07.07
I always associate whinge with hand-wringing, oddly enough. It always seemed like a more gesture-specific form of whining.
 
  

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