Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Conversation >

Chop off my willy

Page: 1 2 3 4(5)6

13:55 / 25.03.07

Shall we really not go back down the 'misleading woman' street? Why? Why is she misleading him? She's worked out her dates and informed Trips. That's not misleading, that's being open and honest and affords a happy resolution to Trip's worries. Trips, I am really glad for you.

I hope the woman in question now has support from the person who is the father and some nice people around her to help her through her still very real pregnancy.

14:03 / 25.03.07

That to Whisky, BTW.

15:59 / 25.03.07

Thursday Jan 18; Triplets: Hello darlings, my ex-girlfriend from this thread contacted me on Friday[12 Jan]. She's pregnant.

Last Friday: She's had a scan that puts the conception sometime in the middle of January.

So, what's the story with Dead Megatron's query on the dates? Something somewhere is wrong.

16:32 / 25.03.07

You're missing the point!

PAAARRRTTTYYYYY!

16:54 / 25.03.07

I think it's fair to say that you were never too attached to the notion that you had a part share in a fetus, eh Trips?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:56 / 25.03.07

So, what's the story with Dead Megatron's query on the dates? Something somewhere is wrong.

Yes, because obviously all women have periods like clockwork and could never (eg) happen to miss one, thus leading to some confusion as to the date of conception.

17:15 / 25.03.07

Yay, Party! Mizaru, kikazaru, iwazaru...

17:35 / 25.03.07

PAAARRRTTTYYYYY!

Yep.
- Emotionally fragile young woman finds herself pregnant.
- Hopes person she 'still loves' will help with monetary and emotional support.
- Finds out this ex would rather do the bare minimum.
- Finds out this person is not the father of the child - it is the child of a man she had a fling with.
- She doesn't know if this man will care, but lack of relationship or attatchment makes it unlikely.
- For moment, finds herself rather alone and having to prepare for being a mother for the rest of her life.
- Ex is glad - he doesn't have to be scared anymore or feel stupid for not using a condom.

Does nobody else feel a little queasy about the outcome here?
I mean, it's a pretty good thing that Trips doesn't have to be a dad when he doesn't want to (and we can now make 'it's triplets!' jokes), but there's a definite air of callousness going on here. Also a genuine fear of responsibility.

I know it's cool not to have to think about your actions Trips, and god knows it must feel good to have such a weight dropped from you, but this woman still exists, this foetus still exists. Can i please ask that you just think about that a little bit?

While you're at it, can you also take the time to remind yourself that the only reason you are not posting in the misery thread right now is pure fucking chance? There is no reason other than blind luck that your sperm isn't writing this foetus' body.

And please, please could you refrain from celebrating that yet another young woman has found herself (likely) single mum in a world that isn't the most accomodating of young single mums? I know it spoils the fun a bit, but she's still in the situation. From the sounds of it, she's a bit scared. This is still happening.

Congrats though. Wear a condom next time eh?

17:52 / 25.03.07

- For moment, finds herself rather alone and having to prepare for being a mother for the rest of her life.

An ex who was in her right mind when she put off taking the morning-after pill every day, for three days, after the Night of Maximum Stupidity; with the final reason given to me being, 'oh, it'll mess up my hormones'. Single bed. Tag says, 'Made By You'.

18:01 / 25.03.07

I'm not sure I agree with you there, .trampetunia. A woman is pregnant. Triplets is not, apparently, the father of her child and he's happy about that. This is a woman who required him, not so long since and to his evident distress, to end his relationship with her. I'd be setting off fireworks and sinking more than a few.

As for your advice that he wear a condom next time, is this because you feel that men are the capable gender, who should take sole responsibility for contraception because women can't?

18:07 / 25.03.07

Actually, see, I think that bed might just fit two. If they were significantly pressed together and making due with limited space. And neither of them were apparently greatly concerned with taking precautions.

If she'd gone in with a syringe, storing pipettes of paste, as it were, for later horrid self-experimentation... but, no. At least half of the bed, then, would belong to either party, and you can't do the Pudd'nhead Wilson 'If I owned half that dog...' either. Not in polite company and without significantly lowering the life expectancy of the other portion.

Don't let this stop the party. To be free of a bad or unwanted situation is certainly cause for celebration, I just don't think it's entirely one-sided, that avoided situation.

All parties of consensual ANYTHING are responsible for the outcome, in their measure and own way. That's what being an adult is, or ought to be, compressed down to a homily. We don't pick our situations, but we have to deal with them, and how we deal and what results of that: each and every one of our responsibility.

18:11 / 25.03.07

Okay. I see where you're coming from, but let's pretend for a moment that the foetus turned out to be yours...

"An ex who was in his right mind when he watched her put off taking the morning-after pill every day, for three days, after the Night of Maximum Stupidity; finally accepting the reason given to him, which was 'oh, it'll mess up my hormones'. Child support. Invoice says, 'Made By You'."

Like homer pressing the right button and preventing nuclear disaster, what you got was a fluke. Call it a reprieve, call it a blessing, a 'get out of jail free' card. Whatever. But please stop with the gloating and the sudden distancing-myself-from-this-cos-it's-not-my-problem-la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you. It's damn ugly.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:13 / 25.03.07

This entire thread makes me feel pretty sad, for much the reasons .trampetunia had very ably given. I'm glad Triplets is not now apparently the father of this child, since that didn't seem to be a very good outcome for anyone involved, but yes. Still pretty horrible, though.

18:27 / 25.03.07

Wow, scary stuff. This thread has had the positive effect of making at least one young man with (up till now) fairly lax attitudes towards contraception resolve to be a lot more careful in the future.

It also made me realise that the accuracy of the information you get from a message board like this can be pretty unreliable and it's not a good idea to take unqualified strangers' word for it when they confidently say stupid things, like: 'Paternity cannot be established until after birth', when actually you can get a paternity test as early as 11 weeks into a pregnancy

Come on people - We may have been limited in the ways we could help Triplets out here, but surely we could have provided him with this basic piece of rather relevant information.

18:29 / 25.03.07

As for your advice that he wear a condom next time, is this because you feel that men are the capable gender, who should take sole responsibility for contraception because women can't?

No it isn't. Condoms are handy because they (when working) prevent both pregnancy and infection. While the pill (or other methods) may prevent the first, it does nothing to prevent transmission of STIs. For this reason, i would recommend the use of a condom to either sex.

I could have said 'next time, make sure you or your partner use some form of contraception, and if you suspect that your partner cannot take personal responsibility for her contraceptive measures, make sure to use a condom (or just don't fuck)' but it seemed less snappy.

Sorry for any confusion.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:31 / 25.03.07

a) £395.

b) hence repeated suggestions to talk to experts in field.

ONLY NICE THINGS

18:31 / 25.03.07

As for your advice that he wear a condom next time, is this because you feel that men are the capable gender, who should take sole responsibility for contraception because women can't?

Well, it sounds from the account that Triplets can't - earlier in the thread he said that she had claimed the need to take the morning-after pill once a month for the length of their relationship. Honestly, neither of these people should be having non-procreative sex, because neither is capable of managing one of the easiest parts of it - managing a contraceptive regime suitable to both parties.

An ex who was in her right mind when she put off taking the morning-after pill every day, for three days, after the Night of Maximum Stupidity;

So, there were actually a fair few nights of maximum stupidity. And, for that matter, this is the first time that the self-harming, depressive OCD-suffering 18-year old in question has been described as being in her right mind. Not loving the narrative being developed, here.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:35 / 25.03.07

Nope.

18:36 / 25.03.07

Information which Triplets probably could have googled, too.

This is far more a communications/work-things-out board than it is an information repository. Usually, anyway. And that's not to say it doesn't function incredibly well on that front.

I know I did some reflecting, re-analysing, and mentally smacked myself a few times going through the thread. And that's the good that comes out of this, I think, it's effect on everybody reading/posting. Unfortunately, the kid seems to be kinda screwed on all fronts. And the ex-gf, for that matter. And Triplets is probably still stressed or weirded out to some degree, surely? Party aside, it's a heady thing.

That aside, the conversation did kinda take a turn to resembling an argument among six people who've shot the same bear, about whose bullet actually did the killing. Or something. Still, I can't say I'd behave any better.

18:52 / 25.03.07

Me earlier

I think they [paternity tests] can be carried out before birth, but they're less accurate

In fact I looked up antenatal paternity tests at the time but failed to report back to the thread. I also discovered that, like other invasive antenatal tests, they increase the risk of miscarriage by a small percentage.

19:04 / 25.03.07

Yes, because obviously all women have periods like clockwork and could never (eg) happen to miss one, thus leading to some confusion as to the date of conception.

Thanks for the sarcasm, I love that stuff. She definitely knew she was pregnant on the 12th January. Then doctors date the conception to mid-January. It doesn't look like there was enough time in there for her to realise she'd missed a period...

But OK, let's say the timing was good, and she took the pregnancy test when she was 1 day late, and told Triplets that very day. That would put conception at around New Year's day, at the later end of the likelihood. Now, I've no idea when the sex with Triplets last occurred, but the doctors are off by 2 weeks...

19:34 / 25.03.07

Oh for... swears.

Regarding the paternity test, I can comfortably say that most pregnant women would tell you to shove it up your arse. You can sodding well wait till the baby arrives to find out whether it's yours or not. it's not nice having a hulking great needle poked through your tummy into your womb. I know, I've had it done and I certainly wouldn't do it for anything less than a really good medical reason. And I don't know how many men would want to increase the chance of a miscarriage just to find out whether they actually were the father but I really, really hope it's not many.

Plus also as Haus pointed out the cost is prohibitive, and currently it's a U.S product, which Triplets is not.

I'm ever so glad that you are now not in a situation you were feeling difficult and unhappy about Trips, I truly am but I am also finding the 'party on down' attitude a bit OT. Lovely to post and say, 'phew', less lovely to post and say, 'made bed, lie in it'.

22:51 / 25.03.07

I do think that what after what must have been a worrying couple of months, Triplets is entitled to feel relieved.

Really, how many of the commentators in this thread can absolutely guarantee that they've never, under any circumstances, had unprotected jiggy-jiggy?

Regrettable Juvenilia

23:08 / 25.03.07

I'm not aware that anybody has claimed they haven't.

14:58 / 26.03.07

I think Diz approached that line in spirit. I mean, I don't know many people who have inserted a discussion about abortion into pre unprotected hanky panky time. That seems terribly organised and sensible and not at all in keeping with the general irresponsibility of unprotected sex as experienced by me.

That said, I'm not sure how many people are suggesting that Trips shouldn't feel relieved or even celebrate. The impression I'm getting is that barbe-chums are concerned that no-one loses sight of his ex and the potential child she's carrying.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:13 / 26.03.07

That sounds about right.

However, for the record, I don't really understand why it is so hard to believe that somebody could have stuck to protected sex, and indeed talked about what to do in the event of emergency, with consistency. Is it a manprong issue?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:38 / 26.03.07

Red Concrete: The point I wanted to make was simply that it's possible for someone to miss a couple of periods and assume they've been pg since sometime after the last one, when in fact conception has happened later. I wasn't clear from Trips' first post whether she'd actually done a pregnancy test at that point or simply looked at the calender and gone "oh, fuck." My tone was influenced, I guess, by the antipathy I get from some of the posts here towards the woman in question. However I apologise for the sarcasm which I realise was unhelpful.

17:14 / 26.03.07

I don't really understand why it is so hard to believe that somebody could have stuck to protected sex

It's not at all hard to believe that two people who regularly engage in unprotected sex can and should and often do talk about what to do in the event of an emergency or, indeed, use protection. I just want to keep alive the notion that unprotected sex is probably more often embarked upon in a more irresponsible manner, or is at the very least frequently embarked upon without much thought of the potential consequences. Of course I have no evidence for those assertions, but they echo my experience and those of people who I've actually talked to about this subject.

Not suggesting unmindful sex is a good thing, mind, just very common, and something I'd be very uncomfortable berating someone for.

18:12 / 26.03.07

Not suggesting unmindful sex is a good thing, mind, just very common, and something I'd be very uncomfortable berating someone for.

In retrospect, i think some of my beration was coming from anger at myself for having put myself at risk in sexual situations before. Sorry about that.

But i think there's something odd about saying 'well we've all done it, so it can't be too bad'. It seems to take away the responsibility from the situation. Many people seem to fail to take into account the risks of unprotected/unmindful sex. As someone (Princess, i think) said elsewhere, sex is dangerous. There is a very real risk of death from unprotected sex, or even protected sex, should there be a problem with the barrier. I don't think the idea of sex as something we need to be careful about, something we need to respect has been accepted by society-at-large.

The attitude that seems prevailent in our society is a strange mix of laissez-faire and hidden superstition. It fine to chat about who your friend had sex with last weekend, it's nearly taboo to ask if they used protection. It's fine to ask your friend how many people ze's slept with, again near-taboo to ask if ze's ever had a sexual health test. While people are becoming increasingly liberal in their attitudes to sex and sexuality, sexual health and the idea of unwanted pregnancy have become bogeymen for recent generations. Except you can talk about the bogeyman.

So i'm sorry if i've been overly harsh here. I empathise with Triplets and know that the relief must be amazing. But i get a bit annoyed when the 'you poor thing' cards get sent when we should, as a community, be reminding one-another of our responsibility.

18:27 / 26.03.07

No, I agree with you - sex is something to take seriously, for all kinds of reasons that having nothing to do with having serious fun, and I have no problem at all with attempts to get someone to see that. I just have a problem *berating* someone for doing the same thing that I've done on multiple occasions, particularly when that someone is almost certainly already feeling lost and frightened, and has very likely learned all the lesson they'll ever need to learn.

However, in this case Trips did behave like a real prat, so I can totally see why people got so cross, even if I disapprove.

18:30 / 26.03.07

Sorry, this needs unpacking

I just have a problem *berating* someone for doing the same thing that I've done on multiple occasions

And I'm not entirely sure I can. I suppose what it gets down to is that I don'tlike to add to another person's hurt.

19:08 / 26.03.07

Right.

Anyone here think having unprotected* sex is a sound idea?

Have some of us learned unpleasant lessons about having relaxed attitudes towards protection?

Do some of us need to be shaken up a bit about the realness of these concerns and a bit of IRL examples?

Biology has a way of getting the better of you, and I don't mean simply in a het reproductive sense. The brain cocktail during arousal makes intelligent thoughtful action difficult. Sure we can make important decisions (no -means -no| not without a barrier) in this state but why not share the burden out to our sober non aroused off duty selves?

If your off duty non aroused self thinks protection isn't 100% required why would your fully engaged self give a shit?

So to be clear I'm not hassling the aroused individual who in the heat of the moment overlooks protection or passes on it. I'm staring directly at the person who doesn't prepare for this moment ahead of time with a plan. I'm holding up the RTFM sign in one hand and the FM in the other.

*Unprotected from disease, unintended reproduction, and social consquences.

19:26 / 26.03.07

I'm not yelling at Triplets because he had unprotected sex, I'm yelling at him because he is being an asshole.

Bed.
Made by him.

19:46 / 26.03.07

I haven't noticed any yelling, but point taken. I didn't appreciate the "bed made by you" comment either.

But even in light of that comment, I'm not sure Triplets needs to be told to read the manual after his scare, although I do see the value in reminding one-another of our responsibility, something which perhaps this thread has been missing.

20:24 / 26.03.07

Mordant C: It's quite alright, and I take your point. I was assuming a few things also, but being the pedant I am, I couldn't let it go! I don't like the tone of the thread either and I'll leave it alone now, I think.

Page: 1 2 3 4(5)6