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Scary Sex Stuff

  
  

Page: 123(4)5678

 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:01 / 25.05.07
Compared to the general tone of "you PMS bitches" in other spots, they seem rather harmless to me, Papers.

Good point. There's more of an air of civility to them, even if I don't agree with some of them.

I love the picture's atmosphere of implicit story, there's a real sense of context to the piece...even if it doesn't emulate the maquette's "Mary Jane drugged on Joker Sex Gas" expression, it's something more positive than a straight up flipped table.
 
 
Lugue
01:02 / 25.05.07
And thanks for linking it. Just the sense of character, of the depiction of people, sums up how bullshitty the "but it's conceivable, really!" arguments I read in the original's defense are.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:42 / 25.05.07
I admit I'm a bit surprised nobody thought to do up an Aunt May version. (twitch, twitch)

I'd really like to see Bone do a Spider-Man series, now. Possibly an "After they're married" Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:12 / 27.05.07
Joe Q. finally comes out to say a few words and they are basically: what, me worry?

read also the comments section.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
00:33 / 28.05.07
What's really shocking about Lea Hernandez's fixes of the cover is that at first, I didn't realise that's what they were - I thought the first image shown at the site was the original. Which as she intended, serves to highlight quite how much awful shit is going on in the original: the slime dripping onto naked female flesh, the half-ripped off/open clothes... That Quesada could be so either cynically unapologetic or dumbly, obnoxiously misogynistic to defend this in so cavalier a manner is frankly mind-boggling, especially when in the same Newsarama interview (could he be given an easier ride therein? - hard to imagine how) he goes on and on again about how he's banned heroes from smoking in Marvel books and if you disagree with that you basically want everybody to get cancer...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:57 / 28.05.07
I'm a little perplexed by JQ's logic on the maquette -- if Adam Hughes is typically known for drawing more positive pin-up style images of women, this means he has no risk of doing something negative? Examination of one's art and its subtext is an ongoing process. His whole interview was utterly disheartening. I'm confused why the tentacles belonging to the Brood nullifies any potential for "tentacle rape" subtext, particularly given that the Brood have that nasty violating impregnation and "Bad Mother" coding cribbed from Ridley Scott's Alien. Just because they're Brood tentacles does not mean they aren't tentacles.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:41 / 28.05.07
Quesada's position is basically that if a female character is written as a strong independent woman then she cannot be put in a demeaning position because of her strong independentness. I believe the technical term for this kind of argument is 'that's a load of shit'. It also, amazingly, doesn't do much to help out the people who are trying to defend either the statue or the cover art in question, so perhaps Joe should be thanked for shooting them in the foot so accurately.
 
 
This Sunday
07:07 / 28.05.07
[JQ:] Also, HFH is a book that features two strong, lead female protagonist who kick major ass; somehow folks have forgotten to focus on that.

NRAMA: Well, you correctly identified the “unsavory” element we were referring to…just one of those absurd phrases (though it exists).

WTF, now? Oh, wait, The Beat excerpts that for confusion and ridicule, too. So it's not just me.

In brighter news, Hernandez's retouches have about sixteen billion improvements over the actual cover, including that final redo, which would get me to buy a copy of the latest issue of the book just to see if the insides are like that. No more unnecessary simpering victimization, for one thing.
 
 
tavella
17:46 / 28.05.07
I love the last remix, it's just what I was thinking of when I said on scans_daily that if they looked pissed off instead of terrified, it'd be a funny cover.
 
 
Ticker
22:35 / 29.05.07
I'm sorry to bust into the flow of conversation but the recent discussion of Harley Quinn over in the DK thread has got me thinking.

Specifically I'd like to explore the stuff around new characters being brought into a longterm storyline (cartoon feeding into comicbook) and poke the issue of female characters. For me HQ's popularity is in part due to the invention of some social issues relative to the newer comicbook readership. Her relationship with Red and Mr. J does in fact engage quite a number of female readers.

About HQ from a gender perspective

interesting blog about gender in cartoons

Should I start a new thread or is here best?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
22:55 / 29.05.07
Having the discussion here works for me, Breeches. This DK thread?

At work now but I'll think about the Issue of Harley(?) and possibly the History of Cross-Media Female Character Introduction in Batman (Think Yvonne Craig's Batgirl shuffling over way back when) and see if I can't spit up some coherent thoughts later tonight.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:44 / 30.05.07
I've been trying to find some good links around the net on Harley and analysis of her, but the pickings are pretty slim...

One of the big questions I'd have to ask about Harley is - has she managed to become her own entity (as a character, in narrative terms, rather than in-story personality terms) rather than an adjunct to the Joker? The DK thread disturbed me because her potential as a character seemed to be hand-waved away but I've always felt Harley had legs of her own to stand on and while she may not be viewed as essential to the Bat-mythos*, she certainly had the potential to become more essential and certainly added a lot of colour and bounce to the Batman Extended Family.

She certainly fleshed out the Joker's character when she came into the comics canon, notably during the Emperor Joker storyline in the Superbooks where Mistah J transforms her into a constellation. But is she functioning only to flesh him out or has she developed into enough of a character on her own? She had her own series for a while although I don't know how well it did.

I feel like I'm only able to reall offer more questions about Harley's significance and how she's been handled in the comics at this point, but there's also the issue of Poison Ivy (like XK says) and the how her relationship with Ivy defines her -- does Harley break out of her sidekick mode or is she still stuck in it? Harley (in my mind) tends to get top billing with that pair but they're certainly equals but.

I'm going to go poke miss wonderstarr about this...

* - I'd argue that because of her creation and presence in the animated series she does become more essential to the mythos because the cartoons tend to be more accessible to non-readers and often introduce the characters to kids coming into the fandom. I also wonder what would have happened had the Birds of Prey television series been successful, as Harleen Quinzel was the primary villain.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:54 / 30.05.07
I'm not sure how I feel about Harley Quinn. On one side, she's a lot of fun, and she's one Batman villain who can pose him a serious challenge solely through her physical gymnastics, rather than having seduction as the prime weapon in her armory (Catwoman and Ivy, I'd say, both fall back on that regularly). Morrison's recent all-text Joker story was quite a good take on her, showing her from Batman's point of view as so fucking fast he just couldn't get a handle on her. Because she's totally in love with Joker, she doesn't come across ever (in my experience) as a femme fatale, unlike the other two.

On the other, the impression I get is that she's in an abusive relationship and just keeps taking emotional and physical punishment from the man she loves (who quite possibly doesn't reciprocate in any way ~ I'm sure this is arguable). I haven't read loads of HQ stories but I have some knowledge of her from comics, so I've got a richer understanding than would someone seeing her in a film for the first time ~ I don't see how, if you portrayed that relationship as a subplot in The Dark Knight movie, it wouldn't come across as pretty problematic. "He hit me (and it felt like a kiss)" seems her keynote. I mean... what kind of female character is that, assuming the movie wouldn't be able to flesh her out beyond that primary role and function?

Is she masochistic? I don't know enough about masochism to say. I'm sure you could have an interesting, "positive" representation of a submissive masochistic woman in a mainstream movie (Secretary? Is Maggie Gyllenhaal cast for The Dark Knight?) but not if she's a minor supporting character, the love interest for someone who's only introduced in this film, and who is bound to dominate.

It is interesting that she came out of cartoons and the animated aesthetic into mainstream comics, and had to be drawn "realistically" after having been stylised (the first one I remember is an Alex Ross painting). Batgirl is a similar example.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:57 / 30.05.07
Slightly different though, as Harley was in the animated-style comic book and then crossed into the "realistic", mainstream canonical DCU. Mad Love, (still?) her major storyline, was a comic book before it was a cartoon. Whereas Batgirl was TV, then comics, without that middle-ground of comics-drawn-in-the-TV style.
 
 
This Sunday
06:34 / 30.05.07
(This is all so subjective it hurts. If the opinionated stuff starts to grate, call me on it, but know I know it's filtered through my messed up psychology.)

Harley does violate the mythic connection of submissiveness in masochists, which is kinda nice. She's not really submissive to the Joker, in most stories, in that she's really going out of her way to get his attention, desperately, but she also sort of comes at him on occasion with violence directed right at him, as opposed to those around. Almost paralleling the Joker's relationship to Batman for the past forty years or more. She wants the Joker to hurt her, and the Joker wants Bats to hurt him.

Her relationship with Ivy, has a fair amount of deliberately baiting Ivy into wanting to hurt/kill her. The dynamic the relationship spins on is almost the same as her relations with the Joker. Basically, Harley's like watching a version of Butterfly Kiss with more swooning, a laugh track, and no ending. She's never going to stop being fucked up because in some weird way she's functionally fucked up. We see the Joker let go when Bats dissipates into the aether, often, in little 'imaginary stories' or 'elseworlds' or whatever, but when the Joker's not in a Harley Quinn story, if the Joker ain't there, he's replaced by Ivy or some other form of react-with-violence warm body.

Batgirl, on the other hand... wow, I really did want to marry and be Batgirl when I was a kid. Specifically the Batgirl from the otherwise missable Elliot S! Maggin story where she kissed Robin while he was interning for her, beat a Satan-powered Benedict Arnold, and had the whole motorcycling spandexy congresswoman thing going on. Yeah, the purse and the brown-belt limitation are/were annoying, but it's annoying to note that she had to be shot and put in a wheelchair - that is, limited more - before she could be allowed out of those annoying trappings. Like growing up required knocking the legs out from under her. No walking equals acknowledging competence, because she's somehow been reduced down the threat-gauge. Because if she had functioning legs and that brain, it just might be too much!

I know Moore probably never even intended The Killing Joke to be canon, and that none of the various writers or editorial likely got together and planned all this out, but it certainly reads that way. At least, to me. She played damsel-in-distress, innocent side-victim, in Moore's oneshot, and then it's a matter of 'wow, she's exceptionally brilliant and focused' or such. Rather, than just removing the 'and she can't get a black belt' or Batcosmetics stuff.

Is it my funny memory, or was Batgirl on the old liveaction TV show more competent than her immediate follow-up/intro in the comics, while Harley worked the flipside, and got to be more competent and developed in things like Mad Love than she did in those early appearances in the cartoon?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
06:53 / 30.05.07
I remember the early appearances of Barbara Gordon in the comics had her using a Bat-hairnet and Bat-compact or some such shit, whereas Yvonne Craig kicked ass with the best of them (well... Adam West, anyway).

The more I think about it, the more I think Killing Joke is one of the worst things ever to happen to Batman comics. Not just that such a slight, overwritten, relatively early Alan Moore story became a "graphic novel" (a novel!! more like a graphic leaflet) and entered the mainstream alongside the far more substantial and important Watchmen and DKR, but that it was such a crummy change to the canon. Batgirl's now been in a wheelchair for 21 years. That's longer than she was fucking Batgirl in the first place! The crumminess of it is astounding. Moore's little story, which I'm pretty sure he wasn't very proud of by the time of its publication, and would rather have played down (wasn't it originally intended for an annual, or something far less glossy and prestigious?) has become one of the defining Batman texts, and certainly the defining Batgirl story, is the story that stops her from being Batgirl.

Unfortunately, this complaint makes it sound as though I feel being in a wheelchair with a damaged spine is a useless kind of victim status; I don't feel that way about people in real life, and to be fair, Oracle is (I suppose) a positive, worthwhile figure. But as a fictional female character, I feel Batgirl was limited, reduced, broken without any good reason.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:14 / 30.05.07
(To go slightly off-topic for a second, I don't think I've ever seen any interesting story based around either Barbara Gordon or Charles Xavier's mobility or lack thereof, certainly for the latter it was a backwards step when Chris Claremont crippled him again in the early 90s. As I haven't been reading Uncanny X-Men I presume that, because Xavier was friends with Magneto in Genosha, that Erik used the same trick as Xorn to allow him to walk right? Or that as he's friends with the Shi'ar again they've cloned him a fresh body right? If only Barbara Gordon was lucky enough to hang around with people who wanted to help her rather than reinforce her 'shattered body/mighty brain' paradigm.)
 
 
miss wonderstarr
07:53 / 30.05.07
Funny how Batman's back was broken, but he's alright now. :ROLLLLLLEYES:
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:33 / 30.05.07
(Lady: Charlie's legs were restored by M-day, somehow, and his telepathy was restored by dry-humping the M'Kraan crystal, or something. Either way, he's back, large and in charge.)

On the subject of Harley Quinn, is anybody reading Birds of Prey atm? If not then shame on you, it's one of the better series out there, although the last story arc has been a little messy*. Anyway, Harleen has joined up with the Secret Six to get pushed around by badass professional mercenaries and have her ass whupped by teleporting Batgirl wannabe Misfit. The girl's just a glutton for punishment.

*=Gail Simone acknowledges this in a nicely meta way by having Babs bemoan the fact that her once smooth espionage machine has been turned into a mess by the expansion of the core team.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:03 / 30.05.07
Well, the Joker _may_ have been a stand-up comedian - his flashbacks are not reliable.

If only Barbara Gordon was lucky enough to hang around with people who wanted to help her rather than reinforce her 'shattered body/mighty brain' paradigm.

At the end of Mark Waid JLA fill-in, somebody - Martian Manhunter, I think, points out that they have technologies that would enable her to walk. She declines, saying that she has not abandoned the possibility of walking again, but wants to do it herself - which presumably also invalidates purple rays and the sort of microsurgery we see not infrequently. Dangers of mixing Gotham and Metropolis, really.

Batman's spinal healing was, IIRC, a one-shot deal, involving a metahuman healer who wiped out her mind doing it. Although shortly after that Catwoman was apparently looking for a gun that shot people right in the paraplegia, so hey.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:12 / 30.05.07
That's all good canonical detail, but I'm inclined to think the real reason Oracle doesn't get physically fixed and become Batgirl again is the same reason that, for instance, Power Girl has a boob-window in her costume and Black Canary wears fishnets ~ that is, I'm sure there are in-continuity reasons and no doubt scenes where the girls protest how much they like dressing like that, but the institutional context of predominantly straight male writers, straight male readers and if-they-aint-broke-don't-fix-them generic conventions of gendered behaviour are more of an influence.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
12:14 / 30.05.07
ie. in this case, we can't have a female Batman who is incredibly intelligent, tech-savvy, a negotiator and networker, and also a fantastic gymnast and martial artist, with Batman's full arsenal of weapons and a kewl costume. Because then where would Batman be.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:44 / 30.05.07
Well, yes, obviously. It's his book.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
13:40 / 30.05.07
DN: Is it my funny memory, or was Batgirl on the old liveaction TV show more competent than her immediate follow-up/intro in the comics, while Harley worked the flipside, and got to be more competent and developed in things like Mad Love than she did in those early appearances in the cartoon?

I would presume that the logic at the time was that Batgirl couldn't be as competent when she was moved over to the comics, on the grounds that she might overshadow Batman which is obviously a load of hooey. Harley, on the flip side, was just the "comedy" sidekick with submissive undertones in her early appearances and started to really develop later on. As well, the animated series was great but didn't give them heaps of space for real full-fledged character development.

MW: Funny how Batman's back was broken, but he's alright now. :ROLLLLLLEYES:

It's a fine line with both Barbara and Harley - at what point are Barbara's disability and Harley's violently submissive personality start to become dubious rather than character-fleshing / unique? On the one hand, Barbara's a (reasonably) posiive portrayal of someone in a wheelchair, on the other you have to wonder why it happened to her and not Nightwing (and why she wasn't allowed to get better like Batman was, as has been said).

On the other, the impression I get is that she's in an abusive relationship and just keeps taking emotional and physical punishment from the man she loves (who quite possibly doesn't reciprocate in any way ~ I'm sure this is arguable). I haven't read loads of HQ stories but I have some knowledge of her from comics, so I've got a richer understanding than would someone seeing her in a film for the first time ~ I don't see how, if you portrayed that relationship as a subplot in The Dark Knight movie, it wouldn't come across as pretty problematic. "He hit me (and it felt like a kiss)" seems her keynote. I mean... what kind of female character is that, assuming the movie wouldn't be able to flesh her out beyond that primary role and function?

Harley...it's frustrating because on the one hand she's a fairly well-developed character with a well-drawn personality (and I love that someone pointed out she never uses sexual guile), but on the other...she's definitely not a positive character. Does she get a pass for being a villain? It's that uncomfortable space where it seems more functional to portray more male characters in similarly fucked up identities rather than to try and iron out Harley's problems...but is that the answer, or does Harley continue to be a problem?

And now, I can't really see them using her properly in the movie so it's probably best to avoid the idea altogether. Because they'd be too busy with Batman hoping around and the better known male Mistah J killing with giggles for her to be given the more-than-one-note character treatment, although as a costumed character she'd get way more personality and development than Bruce Wayne's latest arm candy if tradition follows (although, one would hope that she'd get more than Barrymore's empty-caloried Sugar). But that belongs in the movie thread.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
13:53 / 30.05.07
ie. in this case, we can't have a female Batman who is incredibly intelligent, tech-savvy, a negotiator and networker, and also a fantastic gymnast and martial artist, with Batman's full arsenal of weapons and a kewl costume.

Sure we can, but she has to be a lesbian. It's all about balance maaan...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:02 / 30.05.07
Phex: Sure we can, but she has to be a lesbian. It's all about balance maaan...

Hey, if Batman's (at least subtextually) a closet-case then of course Batwoman's got to outdo him and be more emotionally aware and in tune with her own sexuality. She gets to hit on Catwoman while he can't (sob!) even tell Superman how he feels!

Hey, did they ever actually establish anything passing for a motivation on Batwoman's part in 52 after I stopped reading? Because while I was reading she seemed devoid of even Sixties Batgirl's ennui motivation.
 
 
Ticker
14:53 / 30.05.07
I haven't spent as much time with the Gotham Girls as I should but...

I'm excited the tension of Femme Fatale vs. Adoring Punching Bag was pointed out.
There's another part too I want to look at too...
Poison Ivy has always read to me as explicitly the villain of eco-terrorism (misguided desire to place Nature over Culture?) but in the context of HQ, Red also reads as the villain of feminism demanding HQ stand on her own even to the point of abuse.

There's something really interesting happening as HQ is pulled between the two poles of submission to an indifferent male figure versus bullied by the more invested female figure.
Cat Woman has always stayed more in the traditional realm of Femme Fatale for me (I'm not sure what to make of her prostitute/domintrix optional stint but I think it plays into the FF) and I agree Batgirl, even with her independant origin, was ridiculously hobbled. I suspect because Cat Woman fit the stereotype of treacherous yet alluring love interest she was 'safe'. Batgirl needed to be made 'safe' or perhaps to rephrase that remade in such a way as to impact the male characters' arcs as an emotional touchstone over and above having her own destiny.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:47 / 30.05.07
Poison Ivy has always read to me as explicitly the villain of eco-terrorism (misguided desire to place Nature over Culture?) but in the context of HQ, Red also reads as the villain of feminism demanding HQ stand on her own even to the point of abuse.

Which interests me because it lets Ivy be something other than "Villainess who uses sex as a weapon." When Harley and Ivy get together you're left with this weird "Evils of Feminism" pairing which under certain circumstances (possibly opposite the Birds of Prey) could be used to explore some odd terrain in the otherwise testosterone-addled Gotham sexscape.

Interesting thought: up until they had gritty-panic and had to kill off his father to provide suitable TRAGIC MOTIVATION, Tim Drake totally co-opted Barbara's earlier "bored and super-smart" motivations just as she had to be damaged and made into Oracle. Even when the Batkids start out (relatively speaking) well-adjusted, they have to be PUNISHED for NOT BEING TRAGIC ENOUGH.
 
 
This Sunday
19:39 / 30.05.07
PUNISHED for NOT BEING TRAGIC ENOUGH.

Because suffering makes you a better person, y'know. There have been studies.

It is interesting that Drake-Robin and Batgirl both were motivated not by immediate tragedy but through optimism and personal measures, as well as being able to figure out who Batman was before Batman knew they knew. Alfred fits the same model, but hardly anyone else in the big Batworld. On the oldschool TV show, Napier's Alfred was occasionally assisting Craig's Batgirl on the side, and I believe, knew her secret identity.

Since those more positive introductions, tragedies have been added on to give them, well, the motivation they already had. Perhaps not fodder for the Scary Sex Stuff thread but for a Scary Psychology Stuff one, but there it is.

Has Frank Miller ever gone anywhere near Batgirl? I can't think of a thing, except that not appearing in Year One resulted in a Secret Origins revision for her. I'm kinda glad he hasn't in some ways, but I think it's interesting that he essentially emotionally crippled Robin in DKSA especially considering the see-right-through-you capacity he's given him in the All-Star series, which parallels much of Batgirl's arc over her existence in comics.

What grates on me, especially, about The Killing Joke is that Batgirl is dispatched in a way that, were it Nightwing or Batman, you could almost be dead certain they'd have got out of the way or come through it just fine. Fix or don't fix later, fine, but in that one moment, there's a disconnect in the treatment.
 
 
Ticker
19:46 / 30.05.07
Well if the Whedon-verse has taught us anything it is our beloved characters are more interestign when they suffer. Conflict makes for interesting story telling as mine spouse says.

It's the choice of conflict and where you attach it I find intriguing. This goes back to the whole ripped tights power struggle.

Something that's been floating around for me is the impact of HQ on the topic of Mistah J's sexual presentation. The Archetype of the Clown/Trickster has certain hunting rights in using sexual gestures/words/situations simply to make others uncomfortable. My exposure to the Joker pre HQ seemed to indicate the character was doing just that especially with Batman. Interestingly enough I don't feel HQ has really changed that manifestation of the Joker yet she as a clown archetype doesn't seem to go there?

Harley Quinn's site
With strange movie speculation...
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
20:38 / 30.05.07
Has Frank Miller ever gone anywhere near Batgirl?

She's coming up in All-Star Batman and Robin... in a million years lolz!!!!1!1!52!*.

In other Scary Sex Stuff news: Nymphet, a Manga about a horny eight-year-old canceled in America, popular in Japan. Has covers that make Heroes For Hire look like a Norman Rockwell painting. Newsarama reports.

*= This joke is funny because All-Star Batman and Robin is published quite infrequently.
 
 
This Sunday
20:54 / 30.05.07
The only cover I'm seeing is the one at the Newsarama link, and aside from the commenters who're pretty sure she's doing finger excercises, I'm not seeing the covers issue based on that one. And the comments do seem to center around the eight year old's sexuality rather than whether she's doing anything about it, or anyone's doing anything with her.

This little (probably not worksafe) statuette thing, ostensibly from the series, though? Um. Right, then. Complete with rear end close-up marketing focus, and a little extra shame/incompetence in the fact that her books are all gonna come falling out of that backpack.
 
 
This Sunday
21:02 / 30.05.07
And, while, yes Harley doesn't play the femme fatale card like many of Gotham's spandexy women, she's got kinda the reverse of Joker's sexualization going on, in that while he's more sly and seedy about it, Harley's frequently upfront. Lifesize Joker doll, 'ride yer Harley vroom vroom', and well, a lot of the mini she had with Ivy and the Batgirl animated-style special.

And, is it me, or when she's with Ivy does she tend to take out a lot of aggression on the Joker, his image or proxy? Seems like it doesn't happen when they're together, but comes out during Ivy-time. Maybe I'm just trying to feed my Butterfly Kiss with no ending/Alma Mahler of the abusive supercriminal set model.
 
 
Mug Chum
21:32 / 30.05.07
I read that the comic was supposed to be dark-humor-funny and laughing at the awkward squirms from the men she flirts with. But so was Marylin Monroe's films (and it doesn't seem to be "just" that).

So, yuck.

(and the little statue, what the fuck is wrong with people?!)

----------

Has Frank Miller ever gone anywhere near Batgirl?

ASBRBW6's cover

She kinda seems "normal-looking" for a Jim Lee + FM girl (instead of - what I remember from the 90ies - Lee's pin-ups; or instead of Miller's wh--). But Batman's "thrusting" (and where she's standing) kinda bothers me. I might be a perv seeing too much, but when you've seen the things that comics go into... (and since this is from "gimme ass shot" Whores!Miller, the guy who wouldn't put Robin in DKR because it could imply as underage gah-y sex -- "I loved you!" in DKSA --, but had no problem if it implied underage girl sex, it makes me give a double-take). But it's probably nothing.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:13 / 03.06.07
Interesting response to the Heroes for Hire cover from Takeshi Miyazawa, who did the artwork for the majority of Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane and did fill-ins for Runaways. The blog that I found the link on talked about how measured, intelligent, mature, and respectful the blogger thought it was in light of the Adam Hughes and Joe Quesada responses.
 
  

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