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Battlestar Galactica Season Three

 
  

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Seth
13:28 / 27.03.07
If only they'd address that algae cock teasing.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
14:38 / 27.03.07
Oh. Cylons are cool therefore they should be in the show all the time. Cool is more important than relevant issues. Also, BSG should not stray from being a show about space ships and robots and laser battles.

Yeah, because it's important that the audience knows who the ENEMY is. The ENEMY is the Cylons. The HEROES are, in numeric order of importance, Adama, Tigh, the Viper Pilots (except that pussy Lee, and that Cylon-lover traitor Helio or whatever his name is!!1!1!!!) and the Deck Crew. And it's good that that stupid bitch Rosalind has cancer again becoz soon she will die and then Adama can be Prez like he should of always been.
 
 
Hieronymus
15:50 / 27.03.07
Can anyone name a single television show in which the entirity of the plot has been laid out in advance and not developed subject to factors such as actor availability, number and length of seasons commissioned, or just the writers changing their minds or having new ideas (HOW DARE THEY, PUT THEM ON TRIAL!)? I ask because the people who love to complain (again, they don't have to cancel the show for you to stop watching it) seem to always, always, always seize on this idea of everything not being planned in advance and obsess on it, whereas it seems to me to be just a characteristic of long-running serial fiction (see also: comic books).

What an insipid comment. This thread is ABOUT the show, Flyboy, and if the quality of that show is diminishing substantially in the opinion of viewers here, what's the goddamn problem?

Christ, you have this uncanny knack of banging your dick on the table over threads with crystal clear topics. It's ALL I see you contribute anymore.

No one here LOVES to complain or is advocating putting the writers on trial, ya hyperbolic jerk. Settle down.

The problem with serial fiction is that some shows pull it off well by having some idea of how to drive the plot forward. And some don't. Whether or not this includes some master plan for the end is anyone's guess. But it tends to reek of absent-mindedness and disregard for its own continuity when a show starts to look like so much filler.

And this 3rd season has been rife with filler. A plunked-in murderous doctor, an admiral's raging wife we've never met before, Lee and Starbuck's amore over and over again and the deus ex machina exposition of the Cylon Five.

It's not too much to ask for a show that has a firm handle on where it's going. As that's exactly what makes for good serial. Large solid arcs with some reasonable idea of where to go.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:58 / 27.03.07
And this 3rd season has been rife with filler. A plunked-in murderous doctor, an admiral's raging wife we've never met before, Lee and Starbuck's amore over and over again and the deus ex machine of the Cylon Five.

Third season has been way more plot intensive than the previous 2, in my mind.

New Caprica
Collaborators
Internal Cylon life aboard the basestars
First signpost to earth, the lion's head thing.
Eye of Jupiter Two-Parter
Starbuck's death
Baltar's Trial
Final Five

This was most of the season. I think there was maybe 4 non-plot episodes of varying degrees of "meh," the worst of which was Killer Doc. But even episodes like the boxing one was pretty integral to the character arcs.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:17 / 27.03.07
Even in the strong episodes, there's some mightily lazy writing, with main characters fulfilling roles even some tertiary characters should be doing. It's a bit incestuous.

-Tyrol's sudden transformation into Indiana Jones, able to translate religious hieroglyphs in the Eye of Jupiter temple, with the hackneyed explanation that 'the Eye of Jupiter was something my parents studied'.

-Lee's grandfather and the one-episode-plunk (they've been doing this A LOT this season) that Lee secretly wanted to be a lawyer too. Bingo, bango, bongo... Lee's a lawyer.

-The death of Kat, a character with no audience investment because she just a one-trick Starbuck clone.

And that's just for starters.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:08 / 27.03.07
I promise I'll stop leaping up in defense soon, but I just really like this show, kay?

-Tyrol's sudden transformation into Indiana Jones, able to translate religious hieroglyphs in the Eye of Jupiter temple, with the hackneyed explanation that 'the Eye of Jupiter was something my parents studied'.
I refer you the previous statement from the very beginning of Season 2, after Boomer shot Adama, and Tigh locked Tyrol up. "My father was a priest, my mother was an oracle!" Not sudden. And yo, he's Final Five, which seems to be related to that being the "Temple of Five."

-Lee's grandfather and the one-episode-plunk (they've been doing this A LOT this season) that Lee secretly wanted to be a lawyer too. Bingo, bango, bongo... Lee's a lawyer.
I dunno, everything he has done has been out of an overdeveloped sense of "what's right." It's why he went up against his father before and defended the president. Pursuing this case seemed to be completely about what Lee has always stood for... the pure sense of 'right.'

-The death of Kat, a character with no audience investment because she just a one-trick Starbuck clone.
I don't disagree with this, but I will say that the Kat stuff added to Starbuck in that she saw herself in the character and it reinforced her hatred of her old self. Something that she needed to let go of....
 
 
Hieronymus
18:46 / 27.03.07
I promise I'll stop leaping up in defense soon, but I just really like this show, kay?

Nah, no worries. There's loads I love about the show. There's just some stuff that's making me squirmy. I'm hoping it'll pick up even more steam with this 4th season.
 
 
mikebee
19:54 / 27.03.07
can someone clue me in as to how "we're all hearing this strange music emanating from somewhere" = "ZOMG we're CYLONS!"

and count me among the folks for whom this season finale is the deal-breaker. what a load.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
21:12 / 27.03.07
can someone clue me in as to how "we're all hearing this strange music emanating from somewhere" = "ZOMG we're CYLONS!"

It does seem like a bit of a conclusion to jump to. More importantly why didn't they buy the rights for the Hendrix version...
 
 
sleazenation
21:16 / 27.03.07
Am I the only one wondering if by season 5 it will have gone all Nigel Kneale and it will be revealed that *all* the humans are actually cylons...
 
 
Disco is My Class War
00:35 / 28.03.07
The father/son clash between Adama and Lee has been there from the very beginning. Hasn't it? Maybe it's been done before, but this time, once again, became integral to the plot. Because in case anyone hasn't noticed, Romo Lampkins' Shakespearian quip at the end of Episode 18 was all about how the son is the way to the father. Lee's conflict with Adama was Lampkin's defence strategy.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:40 / 28.03.07
I think it's important to be thankful that they didn't follow the original plan and kill off the lawyer and have Lee step up as ace attorney-at-law. Unfortunately I don't understand most of the rest of Hieronymus's other complaints but I'm sure that's because I'm tired and not because they don't make any sense (I mean, your argument about Kat, I mean huh?).
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:01 / 28.03.07
Please don't troll, Hieronymus. Personal abuse and ad hominem in pursuit of imaginary vendetta can be placed in the Conversation, if you really need to place it anywhere. Discussion of Battlestar Galactica goes here.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:28 / 28.03.07
Back on Battlestar Galactica - I'd disagree that we don't care about Kat. There have been a couple of pretty Kat-heavy episodes, most obviously "Scar". Also, she was CAG in the interim period. The interim period is an interesting lacuna, and there's an extent to which you have to buy in to the character's presentation of their relationships. So, Duck becomes significant. Kat becomes significant, and that is expressed, not least, in her interactions with Adama. Basically, Olmos can sell the character's importance, and does so with considerable economy.

Most of all, though, yes, Kat is a way of looking both at Lee Adama and at Starbuck, although the Starbuck comparison is more obvious. Another of the recurring motifs of this series, and of the show as a whole, is the break between people's lives - before and after the first attack, before and after New Caprica. Kat reflects the transformations of these characters most dramatically, but also most ironically - whereas Lee veers constantly towards reasons to defy his father, and Starbuck flips through impenetrability and vulnerability, Kat achieved the binary reinvention, by actually letting go of everything that happened up to the moment of the Cylon attack. She created herself by dying - twice, in fact. See Starbuck, obvs.

If I have a complaint about this series, it's been so far the fixation on wives and children, and I think some of the criticisms levelled at Angeli on this are entirely fair. Nonetheless, Killer Doc is the only completely "oh-for-gods'-sake" episode I've encountered.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:05 / 28.03.07
'Killer Doc' is an awkward case because it's supposed to set up a storyline that then gets abandoned, leaving it high and dry, and with the cast suddenly told to act like Texan judges in a murder trial.

Quite what's happened to the Final Five is ambiguous. Someone, I think it's Anders, says it's like a switch being flicked in the head, which suggests that like Boomer at the end of season one, they've been activated but apparently without instructions.

Also, in the case of Tyrrel, you had a Cylon counsel him over dreams he was having of being a Cylon, not knowing that he really was a Cylon. And Tigh, who can be medically tortured by the Cylons without them realising that he's a Cylon.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
10:31 / 28.03.07
can someone clue me in as to how "we're all hearing this strange music emanating from somewhere" = "ZOMG we're CYLONS!"

I figure the power-outage across the fleet had something to do with it. I'm guessing it was some kind of electro-magnetic pulse that knocked out whatever built-in memory blocks the Fraktastic Four* had. It was emanating from the nebula so as the fleet got closer the FF could pick it up faintly and hear it on radios, but when the fleet jumped in the FF's presence caused the pulse to go off and the whole song download to their heads (poor them), which acted as a post-hypnotic trigger.

*=Tigh=The Thing, Tyrol=Mr. Fantastic, Tori=Invisible Woman, Anders=Human Torch.
 
 
PatrickMM
18:05 / 28.03.07
I think it's perfectly valid to criticize the show's lack of forward planning when it results in a revelation as random as Tigh's a cylon. This fundamentally alters the cylon/human dichotomy, and Moore is going to have to address that fact next year. Last year, they brought out a huge cliffhanger that promised to change everything, and six episodes later were back to business as usual. When the New Caprica arc started, I assumed this is what the show would be from here on out, and maybe in a season we would get back to the Galactica. It was a major disappointment when everything was resolved in four episodes. Yes, it cast a shadow over the whole season, but everything was much more interesting down on New Caprica than up in space.

And I fear that we'll see the same thing next season. Tigh and co. will disrupt things for a while, but after that we'll be back to business as usual, moving towards Earth and having random standalone adventures along the way. I'm not bothered by the episodes that don't advance the arc, I'm bothered by the ones thata come randomly out of nowhere, like evil doctor. I'd love to see more standalones like 'Unfinished Business,' which did some really great, lasting character work. I feel like most of the standalones have stuff happen to the characters, but don't give us any lasting consequences. Look at Helo kills the cylons, they literally said let's just forget about this at the end of the episode, same for Chief and the dock workers.

I loved the over the top craziness of this episode, and regardless of the future, this was a great piece of TV. But, I'm not so sure that they will deal with the full implications of this reveal. It did feel like some random characters were chosen to be cylons, and they decided to figure everything out next season.
 
 
Hieronymus
19:40 / 28.03.07
Unfortunately I don't understand most of the rest of Hieronymus's other complaints but I'm sure that's because I'm tired and not because they don't make any sense (I mean, your argument about Kat, I mean huh?).

No, it definitely warrants greater explanation. Kat, for me, was a stock character that undermined Starbuck in major ways. For example, in that her 'i'm-tough-and-as-cocky-an-ace-pilot' schtick in Scar and the fatalistic penance she felt she had to pay in 'The Passage' was Starbuck's character. Almost in rote emulation. With none of the extended backstory or interaction with other characters (yes, we got a little bit of her criminal past in The Passage... the same episode she's killed of in). It just wasn't enough for me to emotionally invest at all in her death, except as a vicarious interest in seeing MORE of Starbuck's story.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:53 / 28.03.07
I think it's perfectly valid to criticize the show's lack of forward planning when it results in a revelation as random as Tigh's a cylon. This fundamentally alters the cylon/human dichotomy, and Moore is going to have to address that fact next year. Last year, they brought out a huge cliffhanger that promised to change everything, and six episodes later were back to business as usual. When the New Caprica arc started, I assumed this is what the show would be from here on out, and maybe in a season we would get back to the Galactica. It was a major disappointment when everything was resolved in four episodes. Yes, it cast a shadow over the whole season, but everything was much more interesting down on New Caprica than up in space.

But everything wasn't resolved in four episodes, was it? The effects of New Caprica reverberated throughout the entire season, all the way to Lee's speech in the courtroom. From the division between the people that were stuck there for the year, and the people on the ships to Baltar's complicity to the relationships between Anders/Starbuck, Starbuck/Lee, Tyrol/Cally. The labor union, the class stuff that Baltar is talking about, etc. They weren't on the planet for more than four years, but they dealt with the effect that arc had on the fleet all the way through the season.

And I fear that we'll see the same thing next season. Tigh and co. will disrupt things for a while, but after that we'll be back to business as usual, moving towards Earth and having random standalone adventures along the way. I'm not bothered by the episodes that don't advance the arc, I'm bothered by the ones thata come randomly out of nowhere, like evil doctor. I'd love to see more standalones like 'Unfinished Business,' which did some really great, lasting character work.

It's probably more likely that the Fab Four will cause some issues, but those issues will be resolved into an evolution of the show's Cylon/Human dynamic, taking it's cue from Athena's acceptance.

I feel like most of the standalones have stuff happen to the characters, but don't give us any lasting consequences. Look at Helo kills the cylons, they literally said let's just forget about this at the end of the episode, same for Chief and the dock workers.

Either they acknowledged this complaint in Lee's speech or they recognized that it's part and parcel of their story. Either way, I feel like Lee's speech tied a lot of what makes life in the fleet odd or fly-by-night to us.

This all said, I'd much prefer a more tightly planned show ala Babylon 5, but let's face it, it's insanely rare, and insanely hard to pull off well in the American TV landscape. Hardcore fans don't pay for television to be made, the vast contingent of 'normals' pay for it. Sad but true.

Ron Moore is enough of a sci fi geek to probably want things to be more tight, but there is only so much he can do, when it's the parent companies who are taking the risk in money.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
08:58 / 29.03.07
But what more is there to do with the people working on the tillium ship (which is what I think you mean rather than dock workers, which was Babylon 5)? Do you expect five minutes of each show just zipping over there to show everything was all right? In five years of Babylon 5, for example, we saw dock workers a handful of times, and they were referred to in the script a couple of times more.

I would agree that the nature of the problem was one that should have been addressed a season ago but I don't think it was necessarily a bad story, or one that should be endlessly referred to. Does your local news tell you about all the places in the world that didn't have problems on a particular day?

I think Kat's character suffered from being made out to be a copy of how Starbuck was in season one mainly to show how Starbuck had matured in 'Scar'. I would have preferred some more development of Kat's character before they killed her off, I also hope that if Starbuck is genuinely back that she's a more chilled and happier person than she was before she died.
 
 
Spaniel
11:23 / 29.03.07
A happier Starbuck? Amen to that. One thing that weighs this show down in my estimations is it's unrelenting, dirgey po-facedness. It could do with a little, just a little, levity from time to time.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:11 / 29.03.07
Speaking of Starbuck, I think she really is back in the flesh, based on her "Don't freak out, Lee, it really is me."

And she certainly seemed calm and happy.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:41 / 30.03.07
Well yes, but in season one, Caprica Six WAS a chip in Baltar's head.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:09 / 30.03.07
No, that wasn't the one the Cylons call Caprica who Gaius used to call... what was her name? Nyassa? BSG has always been pretty good at delineating between those two: Chip Six is much craftier, sinister and less human, also less about love and more about lust.
 
 
penitentvandal
09:19 / 08.05.07
What gripes me about the music...it's recognisably a song of (distant) Earth. The series has been pretty good, most of the time, at not having references to earth popular culture turn up: books have corners cut off, boxing seems to have no gender divide, the constellations have subtly different names, perhaps most importantly no-one watches fucking daffy duck cartoons. This suggests to me that the final five cylons have something to do with earth. Then again, it could be lazy writing...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:35 / 08.05.07
I think the fact that the song becomes clear in the same episode in which a character says they know the way to Earth and we see a shot of Earth is probably telling in that regard.
 
 
sleazenation
10:33 / 08.05.07
Well, there is always the get out of returning to the phrase 'all this happened before and all this will happen again'.

Which probably underlines that the earth the BSG bods arrive at is not necessarily going to be our earth. At least that would forestall any Galactica: 1980 awfulness.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:42 / 08.05.07
As long as there are hover-bikes.
 
 
penitentvandal
13:08 / 08.05.07
Clearly, it is an Earth where someone other than Hendrix is most strongly associated with 'All Along the Watchtower.' Imagine what their version of Withnail and I would be like...
 
 
Quantum
13:23 / 08.05.07
Urgh. Why cut the corners off Hendrix?

I'm now going to read this thread at last, and return with speculation about the identity of the final Cylon.
 
 
Red Concrete
13:48 / 08.05.07
The first thing I thought of was Bob Dylan, in fact I thought of him before I realised what song it was... I must be out of synch with this version of Earth.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
04:49 / 01.06.07
Just an update for everyone: Season 4 will be the final season.

Huzzah! I like this. Based on the finale, I think one more season is perfect.
 
 
Quantum
09:34 / 01.06.07
Noooooooooooooo! Then I'll have to watch fecking Heroes!
 
 
Spaniel
10:09 / 01.06.07
Nobody has to watch Heroes, it just help pass the time between episodes of Lost. Truth.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
12:30 / 01.06.07
Truth.
 
  

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