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Oh dear. : A thread about things that tick you off quite a bit, and might even elicit a frown.

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:12 / 01.11.08
I might be. We have the same hair now, actually, unless you've done something with it.

We could be like the Chuckle Brothers only with Billy Idol hair. We could call ourselves the Billies Idol.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:03 / 06.11.08
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!!
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:01 / 11.11.08
Nicole Kidman to play a transexual.

Any chance that someday Hollywood can try and get, oh I dunno, a transexual actor to play a transexual?
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
13:37 / 11.11.08
Any chance that someday Hollywood can try and get, oh I dunno, a transexual actor to play a transexual?

And give up the chance to say, "What an amazing job acting!" and a shot at an Oscar(tm)?
 
 
Triplets
16:51 / 11.11.08
Rage will bop you up, bop you down, Rage will bop you around and hurt you.

RAAAAAGE!!!
 
 
Papess
17:15 / 18.11.08
Holy crap! It's a template! Fill the %^$@&* template out and send it back to me.

Okay, that was more rage than I had anticipated.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:24 / 30.11.08
I'm confuzled.

I just heard Melanie Phillips arguing quite vehemently with a BNP spokesman.

It was like Aliens vs Predator.

It was an epic battle, but I had nobody to cheer for.
 
 
jamesPD
18:13 / 30.11.08
Stoatie, where was that?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
19:08 / 30.11.08
It was on Radio 4- an excerpt from this week's Moral Maze. I must hear the whole thing!
 
 
jamesPD
19:57 / 30.11.08
Oh, cheers man, I'll give it a listen on the BBC iPlayer when I get a chance. I caught a bit of BBC Question Time a few weeks back when the BNP members list hit the internet. I didn't catch the whole episode but she seemed to be suggesting that people looking to the BNP was understandable because of the 'failings' of the 3 main political parties on immigration.

Personally I can't think of any excuse at all to vote for a 'party' that wear swastikas under their suits, and it's a bit bewildering to hear someone who identifies themselves as Jewish suggesting otherwise.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
20:08 / 30.11.08
But she is batshit insane so while it continues to be bewildering it's not surprising.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
12:08 / 18.01.10
I was stuck in traffic and there was a Hyundai Santa Fe in front of me with a bumpersticker that read:

My Marriage is Fireproof (The word "Fireproof" was stylized in flames and the "oo"'s were linked wedding rings.

I thought, "Oh my god, what an ignorant piece of shit." I was positively irked.
 
 
Jack Fear
16:26 / 18.01.10
A reference to this, I assume. I haven't seen the movie, m'self: what about it makes you so angry?
 
 
oryx
18:41 / 18.01.10
I recently received a phone call from my former bank, HBOS, asking me why I'd closed my current account. That was an interesting conversation.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
18:43 / 18.01.10
Thanks Jack: I never knew about the movie. Just read the wiki synopsis. Still...

Perhaps I was reading too much into it: What irked me so much this morning (before I knew about the film) is that I took it to mean that marriage outside the Evangelical* Christian Church is a sin and doomed to hell. I also took it to be a subtle yet strong anti-gay-marriage statement, and by extension, a statement against all marriage outside of Protestant Christianity. I formed these conclusions by making associations between what I know about conservative Christian doctrine.

Actually, just reading about the film now does not improve my initial sentiment: By stating that one has a marriage that is "Fireproof"**, one is implying that there are marriages that are flammable, or prone to fire - read "Hell" - (as I have no doubt in my mind that although not mentioned implicitly in the synopsis, "Fireproof" refers to being acceptable in the eyes of god and the church) and the fact that KC's character is a firefighter is merely a linguistic vehicle reinforcing the allegory of avoiding eternal hellfire by becoming "Born Again".

I still feel that the bumper sticker's statement is an in-your-face declaration of moral superiority and religious judgment, as well as being a thinly veiled anti-gay and anti-non-Christian taunt.

But that's my personal feelings. Maybe the vehicle's owner just really dug the film.


*There were other bumperstickers to support my presumption of an evangelical leaning.

**Let's not kid ourselves: Kirk Cameron is a very vocal conservative Christian who also produced and starred in the film versions of LaHaye's hateful "Left Behind" series... I will add though, that at least he is not a hypocrite in his agenda: he wears his faith on his sleeve. That being said, that he strongly supports certain accepted Evangelical teachings (Gay=bad, Islam=Satan, that Jews are "failed Christians" who will go to hell if they don't accept Jesus, etc, etc, etc...) and his film seems little more than potentially harmful religious propaganda regarding the Evangelical stance on marriage.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
18:51 / 18.01.10
I recently received a phone call from my former bank, HBOS, asking me why I'd closed my current account. That was an interesting conversation.

Heh... I just bought a new car with my wife last month. I received a call Friday from my bank congratulating me and then telling me that I have been approved for a $10K Credit Card, no application needed.

When I declined, he was positively befuddled why I did not want it: I needed to explain to him that too much credit is why the world is so messed up financially, and besides, with a new house and my car and another Visa, I could not afford to have the potential to become more in debt. He still thought I was crazy, and told me so in not so many words. He was going into all the benefits of why I should get the card when I said, "Piss off" and hung up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:34 / 19.01.10
Man, it's tricky, isn't it? One the one hand, telemarketers in general are often an intrusion into personal space - especially a space where the phone has become a premium channel for communication - like snail mail, the interactions we have are either of high value or without value, generally, so speaking personally the valueless interactions are more unexpected and more unwelcome. Back in the day phone calls were pretty common, but now they are either friends and loved ones or marketing calls, and everything else goes to email... On the other hand, they probably don't like what they have to do any more than I do. There was an article about call centre workers I read which really affected me - there was a bit where a caller got a dead line, but because the dialling software had screwed up so it counted as a call, and he just listened to the silence until it cut off to get a break. I spent a little while in telesales when I was not mentally fit to do anything else and it was either that or spend all day trapped in my head, and it was pretty gruelling, but I think less so for me because it wasn't me, you know? I knew that in the end I would be able to do something else....

Ach. I guess I try to be nice to cold callers because there but for the grace of etc, but it can be frustrating, especially when all parties are locked in a script, and the difference is that one party's performance and pay are judged on how far into it they can get...
 
 
Jack Fear
01:49 / 20.01.10
It's not a bad gig, if (and it's a big if) you believe in the product you're selling. It's fun to talk to new people, and it feels good to solve somebody's problem, or simply to give someone a pleasant surprise.

Pretty much any sale you make via an outbound call is going to be an impulse buy. You call somebody and say Listen, here's this cool thing, do you want one? and they say Wow, I had no idea, yes I'll have one please. This exchange can, under proper circumstances, be positively delightful. (That said, the good agencies—the ones that make such circumstances possible—are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the shitty horrible boiler-room operations, where delight is held to be of no value.)

A weird conflux of technological and legislative advances—caller ID, universal voicemail, the national Do Not Call list—has basically killed outbound telemarketing. The corpse is still twitching, but it's not a growth industry.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:00 / 20.01.10
Maybe we should form an ex-telemarketer's brotherhood! What did you telemarket, Jack?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:38 / 20.01.10
Ach. I guess I try to be nice to cold callers because there but for the grace of etc, but it can be frustrating, especially when all parties are locked in a script, and the difference is that one party's performance and pay are judged on how far into it they can get...

I find trying to make them laugh is always entertaining. Personally I find cold calls pretty intrusive but it isn't really the fault of the person calling me is it.

As long as they're willing to listen to me doing bad impersonations of famous people or explaining to them that not only do I not have double glazing but that I don't even have any windows in my house...or doors...in fact I'm trapped and I need them to call International Rescue immediately then they're okay by me.
 
 
iamus
08:44 / 20.01.10
there was a bit where a caller got a dead line, but because the dialling software had screwed up so it counted as a call, and he just listened to the silence until it cut off to get a break.

I don't do outbound calls, but the day job at this point in time is working for a sexual health and relationship advice line for teens. With the age group involved, the greater part of my job is in taking (most often abusive) prank calls. It would seem there's currently an epidemic in Britain of teenage boys getting their cocks stuck in bottles, toasters, hoovers, dogs and various of my loved ones and family members.

We're on automated wrap-time too, which means that you have just about enough time to profile the call before you're pushed right through to the next one (and it can get VERY busy. At peak, I'd taken upwards of 250-70 calls, a vast majority of them abusive, in a shift). That dead tone can be an absolute fucking godsend on a busy day, though I'd get hammered if I was caught sitting on it.

I'm really not a big fan of call-centre culture. Not from my experience, or those of my friends. It's a far cry from working in a sweat-shop, aye, but often you get the impression that's only because employers are legally bound to give you just enough toilet breaks for it not to be classed as abuse.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
14:15 / 20.01.10
I think that my level of distaste for telemarketers is directly proportional to the products and services they offer. A person hawking insurance is much worse than a person selling magazine subscriptions, in my eyes.

I understand that these are living breathing people I'm speaking with, but sometimes they get so aggressive, so insulting, that I have no compunction whatsoever telling them to piss off, even if they have a shitty working condition and quotas to make.

Spam is spam, whether it hits your inbox, your fax machine, or your phone. Sometimes the "tried and true" scripts they follow are insulting in how they try anticipate all objections (I take objection on how they try overcome objections). The worst ones try play on either your guilt(some charities use this), or your fear and insecurity (Insurance, alarm systems, etc...).

Sometimes they even have legitimate products or services, but I'm turned off by the hard close. They know that if you don't commit on the spot, chances are you never will, but personally I would prefer some time to think before I shell out my hard cash, even to a charity.

I cannot think of a truly great way how to cold call properly, but I personally try by asking if I have the person at a good time (if not ask if and when would be), make my pitch a very short teaser, and then ask if I may contact them via email with more information that they can peruse at their leisure.

What can I say? I'm in sales, but I'm not a shark...
 
 
Whisky Priestess
18:34 / 21.01.10
I got sales, but I'm not a saleswoman ...

Had some non-fun doing something like this in Old Street years ago - except that it was doing surveys over the phone so if people were very bored they'd sometimes let me ask them the questions.

What really annoyed me (and them - I could hear their patience wearing thin as we went through the umpteenth iteration of basically the same question) was that even when the survey took 10 or even 15 minutes on average to complete, we were instructed to say it would take "just a few minutes" or if pressed, lie and say "five minutes". Not fun when you don't get any money if the caller gets fed up and cuts you off or has to answer another call halfway through ...
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:57 / 21.01.10
Venezuela's "president for life" Hugo Chávez said today that the tragedy in Haiti was caused by the US testing "earthquake machine" weapons in the Caribbean. That kinda ticks me off. Does that guy have to turn everything into a paranoid fantasy for politican gain? I mean, it's funny when he says G. W. Bush is the devil, but man!
 
 
■
22:30 / 21.01.10
Yes, have heard that the tinfoil hat chaps are running that line about the earthquake, but do you have a quote that he actually said it anywhere? My cynicism makes me wonder if someone is just attributing a bit of discredited nonsense to him to make him look silly.
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:48 / 21.01.10
I have a quote, but it's in Portuguese. Apparently, the news came from Venezuela's official State TV, so it seems legit. And belive me, that guy really does say shit like that on a regular basis...


And another thing that irritates me are condescending, missinformed, and somewhat racist 'environmentalists'.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:11 / 22.01.10
Loving the scarequotes there, DM!
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:40 / 22.01.10
Just to be on the safe side. I don't know who that woman is. Plus, I was posting angry and sort of regreted puting them there afterwards.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:13 / 22.01.10
But hey, let's try to apply the ONLY NICE THINGS rule here, and try to think the best of people. So, let's start by imagining that Lori Pottinger is actually a proper environmentalist, at least in the sense of someone who cares about and is interested in the natural environment and the impact of the built environment on it - her 15 years or so on the staff of a publication dedicated to the preservation of the world's rivers at least suggest that might be a credible surmise. She's clearly big on dams as being not a solution, and feels that the use of dams in the rainforest is going to cause environmental damage and disrupt the lifestyles of many native people who live there. From your perspective as a Brazilian, what statements that she makes in the article are misinformed, and which are racist? Patronising is something of a question of tone, and I think it's important that we understand and react appropriately to your feelings on that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:45 / 22.01.10
Oops, sorry - late post! Didn't mean to put you in a corner, DM!
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:01 / 22.01.10
She's missinformed in the sense that as far as I'm concerned there are no plans for dams in the Amazon basin. What for? Energy? We have offshore oil for that now, and plenty of it (and, actually, plans for additional nuclear power plants). To prevent flooding or water shortage? In the Amazon Bazin? It makes no sense. The government is not "selling the river", as sh puts it, tho there have been some moves to legalize land that has been illegaly occupied. Which is bad, granted, but not as nearly as dramatic as she puts it. She also implies that we live in some sort of totalitarian, fact-concealing, censorship-proned dictatorship, and not a solid democracy. This is Brazil, the country, not Brazil the Terry Gillian movie. Ans she seems to ignore that the native peoples in Brazil are not persecuted and exterminated by the army, but instead are protected in their own sovereign territories(IMHO badly referred to as "reservations") that surpasses in size many countries.

She's racist, however benevolent, in the sense that she seems to believe in the "myth of the noble savage", which is so 18th-century and ethnocentric and out-of-touch with reality, and implies that it applies to my people, which would thus not be a complex, multi-racial, multi-cultural, sofisticated and flawed, people as any other in the world stage today. Which, on a personal level, is quite irritating (a sentiment that has been unanimous amongst the other Brazilian individual who have been fowarding this article around). She also implies that the Brazilian people is so ignorant and passive that an American movie could the "awakening call" for our environmental awareness. And she also ignores the fact that the people(s) that live in the Amazon Bazin, both native and introduced, have complex interests and intentions, and are often the promoters, not the victims of the deforestation (without implying that others are indeed the victims, of course). Many of them would rather have "modern progress and facilities" to "living close to nature" (not implying tha vice-versa isn't true as well). There are indigenous tribes who allow loggers and miners to enter their sovereign territory in exchange for money. I don't mean with this example that the natives are evil What I mean is, our reality is not the simplistic reality of a blockbuster in 3D. There are no saints. There are demons. We are all heroes and villains in this tale (hero/villain ratio may vary). We all have our good points and our shortcomings and we are all equally responsible, doesn't matter where welive. In short, we are not characters in a movie about giant smurfs with exposed neurons...

You probably have noticed that I used terms like "implies" and "seems" and similar a lot in the text. It's because I really don't know who that person is, what is her work, what is her intention. I guess she meant to be satyricial and/or farsical about the text, as she puts it in the commentary section herself, but satyre is a difficult art to pull off, and I can sincerely tell, as the satyrized party, that I feel she missed the spot by far this time. I'm sure she's done a lot of important, good stuff, and you have all the reasons to have the hots for her, ONT, and I'm thankfull for her for all that she may have done that helped the planet AND humankind, but, as we say here in Brazil, she just missed an excelent opportunity to stay quiet and say nothing (to shut up, to be more literal in the translation).

Also, why the hell would she hear that Avatar's been banned in China and make an article about Brazil? It's because Pandora looks like Brazil? Doesn't China have enough river-related environmental and humanitarian problems for her to write about? Or is it "our" Amazon Jungle "her" pet cause?

But you're right, I sure am being emotional about the whole thing. I'm certain you'll educate me now as to why that woman and you know more about my country's problems than me, and why she's absolutelly right in mocking my people so and I'm so wrong for getting mildly upset for it (after all, I didn't even bother to post this in the hate thread) and why the fact that she does do a lot of good stuff somehow precludes her from having some human flaws and eventually screweing up, however well intended she was and nulifies other people's right to not approve of her completely, specially the people she, however unintendly, offended. Oh boy, it's going to be like old times, dear...
 
 
Dead Megatron
13:02 / 22.01.10
Did you put me in a corner, ONT? Gee, I swear I didn't even notice. We're cool...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:59 / 22.01.10
Wow. DM, you should really try to calm down. Maybe some breathing exercises? I've been working hard to control my anger, and I really think I've made a lot of progress.

I think the banning-Avatar schtick is certainly pretty broad - it's tagging a current issue (Avatar) on to get a bit of impetus. Of course, Avatar is basically just The Legend of Fern Gully. which is all about the despoiling of the habitats of native people, so, yeah, there's that going on, and Avatar is also rather noble-savagetastic.

That said, I'm afraid I think you might be wrong about the absence of dam plans in the Amazon basin - check here. Also, I don't think she was suggesting that Brazil in general wasn't multicultural, multiethnic and cosmopolitan (after all, as Hector Lima once marvellously said, for other people interracial is a type of pornography, but for Brazilians it's a way of life) - only that the people who live in the Amazon rainforest are generally native people...

Ah, well. I'm sure it'll all be fine.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:08 / 22.01.10
Well, it's the first I heard of that project, and for what I know of my country, it ain't gonna happen. There's no way they will ever get all the environmental permits in the next 20 years, with politics and bureaucracy in the way. And, sincerely, since Petrobras started finding oil all over the coast, such plan is rendered useless. Maybe to facilitate river navigation, but it sounds stupid and unecessary. But, hey, touché for you...

Also, I don't think she was suggesting that Brazil in general wasn't multicultural, multiethnic and cosmopolitan (after all, as Hector Lima once marvellously said, for other people interracial is a type of pornography, but for Brazilians it's a way of life) - only that the people who live in the Amazon rainforest are generally native people...

To which she would be half-wrong. There are plenty of native people in the Amazon basin (tho a lot - A LOT - less than once upon a time), but there are just as much, if not more, non-native colonizers around there. But that may vary, depending on the specif region. After, the Amazon basin makes up for pratically half the country.

I could go on with this with you, just like we used to, but really, I think I said everything I had to say without repeating myself. Just to be clear, I'm sure the woman is a nice person, I'm just saying she missed the marked on that one, and, as I've learned from this place, "I was only joking" is not a valid defense.

But, in a way, it's nice to see you still care. Really. No sarcasm...

Peace to all. "I See you"
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:54 / 23.01.10
Night night, lovelies.
 
  

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