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The Villain Workshop

 
  

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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
18:22 / 10.03.06
What if it turned out that Doctor Light wasn't always a complete tool, and at one point he was a totally violent psycho?

Why is everyone looking at me like that?

The Omega Society cult thing sounds like a story from Batman and The Outsiders from years ago (Issue 25 it turns out) but the villains running the show were COBRA in that one.

I think they should bring back Turner D Century but updated to the most recent turn of the century. He could drive a tricked out Jetta, and ride a flying snowboard. All of his dialogue could be in the form a rap/rock and his sidekick could be a girl dressed like Death of The Endless.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:31 / 10.03.06
How about an Arch-Nemisis for WOLVERINE?

He's fought countless Ninja and Hydra. Yet there's no foe as memorial as the WENDIGO. A Canadian Canibal Savage that showed wolverine the worst he could be while taking the worst he could dish out.

Could that beast be re-tooled?

Now that the character is on the verse of a second ongoing title what sort of Lex Luthor or Joker might he have?
 
 
Aertho
19:40 / 10.03.06
Wolverine's like Frasier. His foil would be someone exactly like himself, but just different enough to show HIM to be the goodguy.

No definitive archnemesis? Puh-lease.

 
 
Aertho
19:44 / 10.03.06
But fresh from X-world, howzabout an archvillain for Cyclops?
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:46 / 10.03.06
Well with Sabertooth on the verge of becoming an X-man Again he seems to have fallen into that pit of not-quite-as-dangerous-as-he-says. You're point is solid but I don't see much more that can me pulled from their dynamic.

Btw, Sabertooth made a great arch-nemisis for Iron Fist way back in the Hero's for Hire days before Mutant Massacre.
 
 
Aertho
19:46 / 10.03.06
Nevermind. I figured out that one too.


(John Sublime)
 
 
Nakkurusu
19:51 / 10.03.06
To me Wolverine is the "uncivilized" man with a snese of honor. He is a samurai of sorts. Okay, he probably is a samurai. And a ninja. He's a lot of things, and he should be legendary, especially someone so dang old. His enemy should be someone who is civilized with no honor. Like an evil-version of Archangel. I'm not sure how age should play in. Do you want some equally as old, or someone young and probably "foolish"?

Mystique needs to tie into Wolverine's mythos as well, they have a lot in commone, especially what happened during the House of M. She's a great foil/love intrest/rival. They can also teade stories of the "old times":

"You remember the 1920's, James?"

"Actually, it's still bit hazy."


Also, what about the Martian Manhunter himself and his villans? How do you solve a problem like J'onn J'onzz?
 
 
Fritz K Driftwood
19:52 / 10.03.06
Just as Superman has Lex (a supersmart, but fatally flawed -jealousy is a bitch- HUMAN), so does WW need a flawed human counterpart. But Rucka's Lex-lite version was too Lex like.

So I would like to introduce the Housewife (aka Hausfrau), a fundamentalist Xtian woman from the American mid-West, who has read one too many glowing People magazine articles about what she views as a heathen bimbo! TaDa!

The accidental death of her family in their minivan on the way back from bible study on a Tuesday night triggers her metahuman genes....

You get the idea.
 
 
Aertho
19:59 / 10.03.06
I'm sketchy about giving Diana a Lex Luthorlike diaboloical archenemy. Diana should have a human woman who's friggin better than her at everything. Like an Angelina Jolie who refuses to acknowledge Diana's contributions, someone who think superheroics are problematic and causing serious trouble for the world. Someone who discredits her, and is in no position to be fundamentally touched; the woman's not "wrong".

Diana's worst enemy in Jimenez' run was Trevor Barnes' sister.
 
 
Fritz K Driftwood
20:00 / 10.03.06
As for Wolverine, I would think that a fellow traveler in the government agent game, possibly immortal as well, with or without superpowers, possibly former Soviet agent that has gone freelance because he drank to deeply from the Soviet-style Communism Kool-Aid would do. Someone who believed in something, but has been disillusioned.

Or maybe a Marvel-style version of either Resurrection Man or his nemesis, Vandal Savage...
 
 
Aertho
20:03 / 10.03.06
I know... Martian Manhunter.

If J'onn were a redeeming Goetia, it wouldn't be a problem in the least, what with Etrigan and Zauriel, and Diana, and Spectre... but he's an actual ALIEN. Who's ridiculously superpowered. There's no easy answer.
 
 
Fritz K Driftwood
20:06 / 10.03.06
I like your idea, Cassandra, sort of a Tomorrow Woman without powers?

The Housewife was what came to mind when I was thinking of the opposite of WW, and my VERY conservative sisters came to mind and how much they would hate Diane, if she lived in our world. So I just went with it.
 
 
Aertho
20:12 / 10.03.06
Well, what makes Di so great is her socio-political and diplomatic faculties. She's a peacemaker who's constantly inviting conflilct. I'd build a woman who calls her on it, shames her, denies Diana her best intentions, and secretly, actively works to remove her from the international policy landscape. A mother figure who disapproves. Someone who "knows better". Someone who REALLY stabs her in the heart.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:13 / 10.03.06
Aside form J'onn J'onzz's white martians, my first thought would be a flaming version of the Joker. A sort of mad fire elemental, or even Etrigan. However I think that might get old quickly.

What makes this character? He's a sort of Superman lite with a detective persona. So what about an extra terrestrial Lex Luthor. Perhaps a being from a different dimension or timeline that has designs on exploiting the earth's resources. Maybe It simply wants to "develop" it into a sort of Disney Land for Ultra terrestrial beings.

Its plans would be far reaching and extremely subtle. J'onn would have to stumble onto a small piece of this scheme which would then grow into interplanetary/interdimensional proportions over time.
 
 
Aertho
20:15 / 10.03.06
Mxyzptlk! That actually works to contrast J'onn's overwhelming lack of humor.
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:35 / 10.03.06
Love that Idea. Or perhaps a return of Quisp.
 
 
Mario
20:52 / 10.03.06
An arch-foe for Wolverine.

Wolverine treats all conflicts as physical ones. He knows that it would take a massive amount of damage to kill him, and he can dish it out just as well.

So flip that. Someone who he CAN'T attack physically, but who can hurt him by attacking him on another level. My suggestion?

Bring back Malice (the living choker thing), and give her a mental attack, perhaps some form of psychic vampirism. Her hosts would be innocents, so Wolverine can't go berserk on them, and since she affects the mind/soul, he can't regenerate the damage.

Actually, this reminds me a bit of an idea I had on the way home, but I'll make that a separate post.
 
 
Mario
21:07 / 10.03.06
The Brainiac Protocol.

Years ago, the Tyrants of Colu drafted one of their scientists, Vril Dox, to create the perfect spy. Rather than create a robot or artificial organism, he developed a telepathic virus that could infect anyone with a second, hidden personality, loyal to their needs.

The basic idea was that they would infect (for example) a Khund, who would then subconsciously perform acts that would lead to classified information being sent to Colu. (Accidentally misdirected e-mails, that sort of thing). Said person could, if needed, infect others, leading to an army of spies who didn't even KNOW they were spies.

Unfortunately, the virus mutated into a form more virulent than Dox had planned. It infected _him_ with a thirst for all knowledge, including such things as "How long can the average female Coluan exist while undergoing severe pain?"

The personality, who named itself Bre'n'ak (Coluean for "That Which Learns") infected a small city, turning it into a laboratory of the macabre, before the Coluans sent androids to purge the entire city. Brainiac escaped, however, hiding in the mind of a small simian called a ko'ko. He made it to a small escape craft, and fled into the void. He ended up on a blue world surrounding a G2 star.

There, the ko'ko found a willing mind... a carnival hypnotist named Milton Fine. Brainiac had learned patience, however, and using Fine's minor telepathic abilities, modified itself so that it could consciously choose whom to infect, until he could find a host suitable to his needs.

And then... a Kryptonian revealed himself to the public.
 
 
Aertho
21:51 / 10.03.06
"How long can the average female Coluan exist while undergoing severe pain?"

Whoah. Where'd that come from? Uhm... Women in Refridgerators? Check yoself before you wreck yoself, Mar.

Still, I like it. Kind of like NXM:HCT "feeder" crossed with a James Bond/Tyler Durden?
 
 
Mario
22:12 / 10.03.06
The only reason I used a female was so that no one would think that Dox was experimenting on himself. It's not a specific requirement

My original concept was based more on Hexus, the Living Corporation, except this is more like Brainiac, the Living Research Foundation
 
 
Aertho
22:21 / 10.03.06
We should give each other creativity challenges. Your next assignment will be... Captain America.
 
 
Mario
22:25 / 10.03.06
I have a couple ideas on that score. Do you want to start a new thread for this? Perhaps a Hero Workshop?
 
 
John Octave
03:10 / 11.03.06
Captain America? Has he ever fought Omega Red? He's a Soviet super-soldier, and I believe he was in suspended animation for a while as well. The difference is, Captain America wakes up and the U.S. still loves him. Omega Red woke up to find there was no Soviet Union anymore, no Cold War, and the new Russia is eager to cover up his existence and put Omega Red behind them. HE'S the "man without a country." Surely there's an endless amount of conflict possible there.
 
 
Triplets
03:17 / 11.03.06
Oooh. Plus (gitmilk alert) he's a pretty good source of psychic vampiri- uh, hema-... uh... Cap's good eatin'!
 
 
Triplets
03:20 / 11.03.06
And, of course, you have the super-powered nationals of other countries: T'Challa, Namor, DOOM.

Sure one could make a case for 30s Militamerica vs. Corporate America (Iron Man)
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:56 / 11.03.06
Cap has had two really good villians before. Flag Smasher, who basically wants to unite all countries and smash all flags. He's a bit of a nutter though and keeps killing hostages and stuff.

The other one was John Walker Captain America. He was a government lapdog with extreme right wing views. He also had no problems with killing people while he wore the Cap outfit. He also once beat Cap in hand to hand combat (doesn't happen very often). Walker went insane for a lil while when he saw his parents murdered, and started putting pitchforks through people and setting criminals on fire, but eventually became sort of sane and did a stint with the Avengers as USAgent.

Someone who resembles early John Walker, and seems even more badass as a villian is Nuke. The original is dead, but they could always create another to be Cap's new foe.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:57 / 11.03.06
Basically, I think it would have more meaning if instead of Cap's foe being a Nazi, or Russian, or Al Qaeda, it was America fighting itself.
 
 
Mario
10:43 / 11.03.06
Nuke is due back, in Wolverine. No, I don't know how or why.

I don't have a lot of time this morning, so I'll leave you with a quote that sums up how I would revamp Cap. More later:

"JULES - ...I'm gonna walk the earth.

VINCENT - What do you mean, walk the earth?

JULES - You know, like Caine in KUNG FU. Just walk from town to town, meet people, get in adventures."

Except Cap would use a motorcycle. The high concept is CAPTAIN AMERICA, U.S. MARSHAL.
 
 
Aertho
11:11 / 11.03.06
Gmorning all. I meant Cap villains, Mario. Anyone else got suggestions for the next challenge?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
12:04 / 11.03.06
What about Incredible Hulk? Wouldn't it be cool if his nemesis was a Riddler type character, who challenged him with riddles, and made elaborate traps, and dumb green Hulk just kinda stares at him after he's done talking and then smashes him. Maybe a Riddler type with immortality powers so he wouldn't die after one issue.

Any idea on Hulk villians?
 
 
Aertho
13:49 / 11.03.06
Hulk so RED. Funny that he green.

I think when he's stoopid, it's obvious that his enemies are authoritarian military efforts. They ARE just trying to serve and protect. I don't know enough about the character's current persona to really comment on what might antagonize him.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:44 / 11.03.06
What about Incredible Hulk? Wouldn't it be cool if his nemesis was a Riddler type character, who challenged him with riddles, and made elaborate traps, and dumb green Hulk just kinda stares at him after he's done talking and then smashes him.

Isn't that effectively The Leader?
 
 
Triplets
17:13 / 11.03.06
Well, Hulk's basically a walking Atomic Monster Movie, inne? So work with that and take a look at what's spun off of that genre in the meantime.

Have Hulk go to Japan, have him fight Super Sentai Squad Six and their transforming robots. Have him fight Godzilla. Have him rumble with the fucking Tank Police. Hulk enemies should be able to beat the shit out of the green lug. For a bit anyway. Send him to Kong Island and rumble with the original rampaging monster.

Fuck, how about this: HULK ISLAND. The original gamma test base zero run by our own ripoff of Richard Attenborough, running Bannherhulk through Danger Room scenarios.
 
 
Aertho
17:27 / 11.03.06
Ah! Yes, that opens it up a bit. I suppose I care too much about property damage and loss of life. That is a problem in Marvel... I don't think I'd have such wariness if Hulk were a DCU character.

In any case, Hulk breaks out of traps and control. Not so much houdini as gordian knot thinking. Gamesmasters like the Leader or Arcade spring to mind, but I really like Trips' suggestion of using Hulk Island or remote locations to drop the bastard in. If he constantly broke out of those envirnments, I suppose he'd need an archenemy that coordinated those prisons; someone he couldn't necessarily fight. Not that this would ever happen, but perhaps Kitty Pryde, Agent of SHIELD?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
17:37 / 11.03.06
Spider-Man! Can we get someone a little more lightweight than Green Goblin and his girlfriend killing schtick, and Venom eating people's brains? Someone fun and playful, kinda get a Bugs Bunny vs Daffy Duck vibe going, where Spidey is relieved to fight someone like this, and the villian should have a bit of wit to trade back and forth with Spidey.

Deadpool? Madcap? Evil Speedball?
 
  

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