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The Villain Workshop

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18:03 / 10.04.06

Prometheus: Dark Phoenix Rising

Promtheus snags Flamebird against her will and brainwashes her ala Patty Hearst. He does a reverse V for Vendetta, where, in his crooked house in the stasis zone, he breaks down and destroys the young Flamebird mentally and physically...then rebuilds her as a fighting machine of injustice and terror.

Then he sets her off against her greatest inspiration, Nightwing...in order to take away his enemy's only son and to make Flamebird his ultimate weapon of death.

- G

20:41 / 10.04.06

That IS a worthy candidate for consideraton.

Nightwing.

And I dig that Prometheus angle too, though they should somehow incorporate Prometheus with Jason Todd, given that he's becoming the real anti-Robin.

11:06 / 11.04.06

Mysterio. Surely he's one of the most interesting villains never to have been given a make-over? In fact, that Spidey's writers haven't managed to do anything with him in recent years suggests to me a collective lack of imagination bordering on terminally dull. And don't even get me started on that pillock Kevin Smith's DD run.

IMO, Mysterio should be played as a force for irrationality, running counter to Spidey's rational science head. This guy's begging to be a walking episode of the Prisoner, or, perhaps even better, a walking episode of The One Game*, or some combination thereof. I'm imagining eye symbols, fish bowls, and purple throws synchronicitously infecting Spidey's day, the suspension of logic, a feeling of claustrophia and of being watched. I'm imagining Spidey trying to think his way out of the world according to the surrealists, and a villain whose abilties are never fully understood.

*A British TV show that went out in the late Eighties, where the protagonist, a game designer, has his life manipulated (played) down to the smallest detail by a disgruntled genius and former colleague

12:49 / 11.04.06

Mysterio was given a revamp once. Like many revamps, it didn't take.

12:57 / 11.04.06

Well, that's because Barbelith wasn't in charge.

Any thoughts on a mysterious sidekick, Boboss?

13:32 / 11.04.06

Mysterio was given a revamp once. Like many revamps, it didn't take.

They were all unimaginative and shit, right?

Yes, Boboss. Yes they were.

The thing is for some reason a whole load of so called creative types can't stop seeing the character as anything other than goofy, Marvel's loss if you ask me, as I think Mysterio has the potential to be a truly memorable villain. All it would take is a little shove (Morrison's super horse springs to mind) and you'd find that goofiness pushed over the edge and into the realms of the weird and the uncanny

As for a sidekick, are we doing that now? I don't think my Mysterio needs a sidekick. A sidekick would just serve to dilute the atmosphere of all pervasive strangeness that he would bring to the spiderverse.

13:39 / 11.04.06

Re: Sidekicks

T'was part of this challenge. I thought sidekicks made more sense for villains because the badguys lack the moral compunctions about putting others in danger, would need assistance to get their heists or whatever accomplished, and it might get lonely on the wrong side of the law. Plus, this thread is about making viable, continuing villains for our heroes, so while one's apprehended, the hero has to worry about getting the other, and then the caught one escapes. Or the loose one frees the caught one. Either way, having help makes the villain more slippery.

13:41 / 11.04.06

14:13 / 11.04.06

I see your Alex Ross, and raise you this

14:20 / 11.04.06

S'like the topic of this entire thread. The Bat cache of enemies is healthy to a surplus, and I'd wager that's because the villains interact and have relationships.

14:39 / 11.04.06

I'd say the heathiest villain-set in comics is the Flash's Rogues Gallery. Even when they are forced into dysfunctional roles to feed a plot, their interaction makes the story worth it. They may be criminals who dress up in some remarkably silly costumes, but they still act like human beings.

14:43 / 11.04.06

I know what you're saying, and I appreciate that sidekicks are part of this thread's remit, but I think they're not always appropriate. My Mysterio is not a sidekick kind of guy, although I could imagine him using henchmen/actors. No-one could fill his shoes in his absence mainly because a) it should never be entirely clear that he is absent - has he been defeated or is it all part of his very strange master plan? And b) it should never be entirely clear exactly who fills my Mysterio's shoes in the first place; Dave Smith might appear to be the man behind the goldfish bowel but is he really?
Also, for thematic and verisimilitudinal (does that word even exist?) reasons, some character's simply shouldn't have sidekicks. If I wanted to write a story about Hell Face's hard on for Hawkeye, for example, and I'd envisioned Hell Face as a character with a very personal grievance - and as a result the kind of guy that likes to work alone - a sidekick would just serve to dilute the character and the story.

In my opinion bat-baddies work so well because creators have such rich character histories and mythologies to draw from. The fact that the fans are intimately familar with said histories and mythologies can't hurt none, neither.
Also, many of 'em - the Joker for example - are conceptually really strong, and work well within the themes and conventions of the genres that are often employed by the bat-books.

There's more here, but I think I'll stop now.

16:08 / 11.04.06

some character's simply shouldn't have sidekicks.

Which is true. But that wasn't the challenge this time around.

Got any ideas for a supervillain headliner that might employ a cast of characters?

16:39 / 11.04.06

Point.

I'll have a think...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:56 / 11.04.06

Do the words Zodiac Gang: The Musical mean nothing to you people?

17:07 / 11.04.06

Actually no. Want to fill us in, Papers?

A serial fiction structured like The King and I or The Fiddler on the Roof? Featuring ill-tempered villains and astrological hijinks?

17:46 / 11.04.06

Got any ideas for a supervillain headliner that might employ a cast of characters?

Well, there is my Freedom Force idea (on the previous page).

I had a good idea for Zodiac once, but if it was implemented right, you couldn't use them in a comic, because they wouldn't actually bother _fighting_ anyone.

21:20 / 12.04.06

Taskmaster.

A comic series based on this guy who trains goons inbetween bigger gigs and can flawlessly adopt any move that has been used against him, could lead to some interesting situations. Having a young prized student who's got the potental to be as good or better than Taskmaster himself could cause a shift in his personal methodology that would be tracked the the series. Perhaps there are several hopefuls and the series would be modeled after The Apprentice.

22:16 / 12.04.06

Sorry, Udon already aced this one in the Taskmaster miniseries. I couldn't do better.

22:38 / 12.04.06

Taskmaster miniseries? must have missed that one.

23:14 / 12.04.06

It was sort of a prologue to the Gail Simone Deadpool run. Good stuff, with Tasky as a solo operative with a new look.

A whole bunch of scans from it can be found here

23:46 / 12.04.06

You know, that's kind of EXACTLY what I was envisioning with this particular challenge.

FUN! In an Ocean's 198 kind of way.

23:55 / 12.04.06

His appearances in the Simone books are even better. Especially this page, and this page.

The Natural Way

11:38 / 13.04.06

Can I just say because nobody else has (and yes, yes he is my bro...), that Boboss's Mysterio ideas bloody rock and, Mario, I can't believe how glib yr dismissal of same was. Shame we have to be diverted by sidekicks - I want more Mysterio.

12:28 / 13.04.06

Okay. Speak on, Boboss. Flesh out a Mysterio ongoing.

(punce: I certainly wasn't discouraging your brother's creativity. More like encouraging additional ideas. If his Mysterio had his own series, what would Mysterio's "Aunt May", "Robin", or "Lois Lane" be like?)

It's only a game.

The Natural Way

12:42 / 13.04.06

I totally understand that, however I like the purity of the original idea/abstract and it's a shame to see good ideas lost in a mad rush to respond to the next rule change. Mysterio going Lynch is the purest, most obvious makeover imaginable - I just can't believe no-one's gone down that road. spookysynchronicitiesgo!

12:55 / 13.04.06

Well, while Boboss is cooking story arc, do you have a new challenge for those playing?

The Natural Way

13:05 / 13.04.06

At work. Really can't.

13:09 / 13.04.06

Take your time. Come play when you can.

13:25 / 13.04.06

Punce: I wasn't dismissing Boboss's ideas. I was dismissing this revamp:

which appeared in only a few stories.

17:16 / 13.04.06

I think I have a new challenge. It's a little different from past ones, because I'm putting a condition on it.

The challenge: Create a viable arch-enemy for Green Arrow.

The condition: It can't be another archer or martial artist.

Any takers?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

17:21 / 13.04.06

Telepath, possibly a low-level one who's primary ability is concentration-breaking. I'm thinking similar or along the same lines as the Praeter Lamnas character from Legion of Super-Heroes -- someone who can impair Green Arrow's judgement and aim while he's in the field. The telepath hirself doesn't have to be a particularly skilled fighter, could even be more of a runner - I like the idea of Arrow's foe being the perpetual prey rather than another hunter, only with certain advantages that allow for escape. Arrow would have to learn how to hunt in different ways to catch hir.

17:49 / 13.04.06

Ahhh, hunting!

I never thought of it that way! I never really liked archer heroes. I didn't get it. Guns are played out and lethal and all, but arrow wounds are so... gruesome. And then if they're all boxing glove arrows, wtf, right? Millar's take on Ultimate Hawkeye kicks much ass, in that it makes any projectile a lethal situation.

But hunting opens up the imagination a bit. Hunting crime. Wild Hunt? Fox hunting? Bow season?

I'm building an idea, but could Mario or Papers tell me about GA's current status quo? I mean, does he fight mobsters? theives? magic users(i doubt it)? Does he even HAVE a cast of villains? I know he's mayor now, but I can't be bothered with that huge sea change. Tell me about things from an overall general view. Is he a "spy" hero? Is he a "friendly neighborhood" hero? Is he a "wandering do-gooder" hero?

17:55 / 13.04.06

He's pretty much a crusading street-level type, going after organized crime, corrupt businessmen, and other social injustices. I'll post my own ideas later tonight, when the time is right.

Phex: Dorset Doom

17:58 / 13.04.06

How about this new GA enemy doesn't just affect Ollie when he's in close proximity, but leaves a lasting mark of irritation and bad judgement (kinda like a hangover where you're still a little drunk) that affects his personal and political life, meaning Ollie really has to find this guy- or risk alienating his family and losing the big mayoral debate with an up-and-coming politician who's in the pocket of big business and, perhaps, The Society.

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