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The Villain Workshop

 
  

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Aertho
02:56 / 03.04.06
Strict? More like splitting hairs. If you're asing Cyclops to expand past the X genre, you're not going very far with Weapon Plus and Freedom Force. Sorry man... I'm just being catty.

Is it just me or is Marvel unnecessarily boring? Everything's street level as far the eye can see. And then Thanos gets the Infintiy Gems and everyone turns into a cosmic warrior. Weird.
 
 
Aertho
14:51 / 03.04.06
Let's do something different.

1. Identify a BIG problem with the comicverse of your choice. Provide reasoning for your selection. (ie too many telepaths!)

2. Structure a continuity wide "event" that would solve said problem. Reality waves and slaughterings are acceptable, but be creative. (ie Crisis on infinite Earths)

3. Build from scratch, or re-purpose a villain that works on several levels. How does ze threaten all levels of herowork? (ie Sheeda minions of all shapes and sizes)
 
 
Mario
14:53 / 03.04.06
That's a side-effect of what was (at least originally) Marvel's strength, which was "realistic" characters. When they first hit the scene in the 60's, they were focusing on real people with real issues.

"Can I pay the bills? Will Jean/Gwen/Betty/Jane finally go out with me? Why is my life such a mess?"

While it makes for good soap opera, it's fairly boring action. Until creators started linking angst with cosmic stories (Starlin, Claremont, even Kirby had a go) it was pretty much the status quo.

Then, instead of "Why don't girls like me?" it was "Why am I doomed to bear the burden of such horrific power?" which works well in the short term, but in the long run, starts to sound a bit tedious (which is basically why Adam Warlock has no personality to speak of. )

DC has similar problems, of course, but they have more room to play in. The Marvel Earth rarely acknowledges that there exists a society outside of Manhattan.
 
 
Mario
15:35 / 03.04.06
Hmmm... let me think.

1. Identify a BIG problem with the comicverse of your choice. Provide reasoning for your selection. (ie too many telepaths!)

Most of my issues with Big Two comics these days have more to do with creative choices, rather than specific elements of the way the universes are put together. But if I were to pick one element that really annoys me, it would be the "geocentrism" of Marvel's cosmic storylines.

Whenever a major crisis rocks the cosmos (or even a relatively minor one) human beings are smack dab in the middle of it, and more often than not, fix the problem.

2. Structure a continuity wide "event" that would solve said problem. Reality waves and slaughterings are acceptable, but be creative. (ie Crisis on infinite Earths)

I'd rather not. It's the idea that everybody has to get involved that leads to the imbalance I was talking about. While I would certainly agree to a major storyline, I would _not_ want to see it impact the entire line. Indeed, it would amuse me more if a major crisis occurred, was confronted, and defeated, and Earth never even KNEW about it.

I'll tie the storyline to the villain, so see more below.

3. Build from scratch, or re-purpose a villain that works on several levels. How does ze threaten all levels of herowork? (ie Sheeda minions of all shapes and sizes)

My villain? Nexus, the Living Conspiracy, a mutated strain of Hexus that infects a Warskrull training facility on the fringes of the Skrull Empire. However, unlike it's memetic sire (or the oh-so cliched Annihilation Horde) , it works through subtlety, infecting and infiltrating society at multiple levels, from street level crime to the halls of the new Throneworld.

And as it adds more Skrulls to it's domain, it spreads out, sending agents to the major empires of space. The Kree. The Shi'ar. The Badoon. Even the Technarchy. It works slowly, carefully. And if it were not for an accidental exposure (details are irrelevant) it more than likely would have succeeded.

Now the great galactic powers must make a decision. Should they band together to confront the threat... or use it as an excuse to smash their enemies once and for all.

Alternatively, of course, you could have Nexus infect Earth-616 instead, as it fits the "at all levels" requirement. You could have one element acting as a crimelord in Brooklyn, another leading a revolt in Latveria. And save for a minor visual cue (for the audience) they could have nothing in common.
 
 
Triplets
16:13 / 03.04.06
To mutate that idea: Lexus, the Living Monopoly. It's Lex Luthor mined and processed by the world's greatest telepaths until they could distill his raw, pure, Lexness into a meme. And now it's on the loose.

What does Superman do when 500,000 people want him dead and they're all Lex Luthor?
 
 
Spaniel
16:58 / 03.04.06
That's a fantastic idea. Of course Supes will ultimately realise that the universe is too small for two Lex's let alone half a million, and that Lexus is inherently unstable. The bad news? Unfortunately when it tears itself apart the universe could go down with it!
 
 
Aertho
17:25 / 03.04.06
I was thinking more Chexus, the Living Trademark Infringement. Supreme, Majestic, Union, The High, Apollo and that dude from Planetary issue one are slowly dying, while a universe away — Superman is getting stronger. The cause? The Living Tribunal has decreed that the original universes should be returned their "stolen strength". TLT releases Chexus, who goes around Wildstorm and drains its heroes of everything except their few, few original characteristics. All that's left of Grifter is a rolled-up sleeve.
 
 
Aertho
19:36 / 03.04.06
I didn't mean to seem snarky, Mario. I like your idea But besides increased violence, what distinguishes Nexus from an interstellar Sublime?

I'm trying to work through a better "War of the Gods" using Fourth Worlders and Wonder Woman-y pantheons, without it ending in singalong cooperation. I want Spectre and Deadman to lead, and find Rama Kushna behind her curtain. I want Zauriel and the four host to be dissolved in battle against Prince Ra-Man's battle aspect. Hmm...
 
 
grant
20:07 / 03.04.06
1. Identify a BIG problem with the comicverse of your choice. Provide reasoning for your selection. (ie too many telepaths!)

2. Structure a continuity wide "event" that would solve said problem. Reality waves and slaughterings are acceptable, but be creative. (ie Crisis on infinite Earths)

3. Build from scratch, or re-purpose a villain that works on several levels. How does ze threaten all levels of herowork? (ie Sheeda minions of all shapes and sizes)


Hmm. I'm not very up on the cosmic stuff -- I tend to drop most of that space-faring cosmic threats. The late=80s Silver Surfer stuff got really dire with the villains. Abstractions at the end of Space and Time!

Which of course brings to mind Neil Gaiman, who did some pretty good comics by doing the same thing, only opposite. Abstractions with goldfish and family trouble!

I wonder if that thought would take me anywhere.

OK, try this on for size:

BIG problem: Destruction gets bored with retirement/hits existential crisis and goes all nihilist/is hit by a bus and reborn in another form. Whatever. He's back in the saddle and decides to destroy Earth. Not just *boom* it's gone, but remove it from all possible levels of existence -- up to the New Gods/Apokolips crew, and down to whatever weird cities in bottles various folks hide in various places. For kicks, let's say Destruction is doing this because he really wants to render our reality down to create a new pigment for some Cosmic Painting. (Or were you asking for external problems, like "too many space-heroes, not enough magic ones" or "continuity has become a mess again"? Pick either of those. I really just want to see a, for want of a better word, continuity between the space cases and the magic users.)

Repurpose a villain: Cuddly bohemian Destruction reveals self as inhuman embodiment of fear, absence and loss.

Continuity-wide event: Bits of reality keep vanishing and mashing into one another, natural laws are being replaced by chaos, planets/years/systems of organization are vanishing. Needs a snappy name, yeah? Hmm.
Have it start out with Earth vanishing -- only those stuck in some metaphysical plane or distant planet are spared. The Missing Planet? I dunno.

This'd be an excuse to have the Golden and Silver Age Green Lanterns, Zatanna, Starman (or more likely Adam Strange), Swamp Thing and Martian Manhunter all, like, doing stuff together. Was Mera (Aquaman's wife) from an alternate dimension? I suppose Deadman would be valid, too.

Maybe do a little ABC poaching and have the heroes fighting Egyptian deities like Anubis and Set... and then realizing they're just pawns, enacting the Larger Plan. Heck, have a whole bunch of End Times myths being enacted, with the Norse pantheon from Sandman heading into Ragnarok, a final war between New Genesis & Apokalips, some Wonder Woman characters getting called up into some death-of-the-gods scenario. I like the idea of Hawkman/Hawkgirl (-woman, whatever she is now) doing some magic-cum-space action. I want to see crew members of the Haunted Tank hanging out with Matter-Eater Lad.

Oh, and the main rule would be No Superman. ONLY the Superboy from the far future of the Legion, and maybe a couple Super-relatives (like Power Girl). And no urban heroes, gritty or otherwise. No Batman, no Green Arrow, no Flash (well, maybe in the more interdimensional vein).

And the fun thing at the end would be that their reality has been altered to the point where they realize they're no longer three dimensional. They're three-dimensional constructs compressed into a two-dimensional medium -- simulations of "real" beings squashed flat into panels on a page.

Or have I been reading too much Grant Morrison for my own good?

Eh.

Back-to-thread-basics Challenge: I want someone to remake the Marvel Sandman and make him live up to his potential. Or did someone already do that and I've forgotten?
 
 
Mario
20:09 / 03.04.06
Motivation. Sublime never really seemed to have much of a plan, except to survive. Nexus would be about _controlling_ others, through influence and force.

Actually, the idea is closer to the way Grant had Dark Side operate, using the Anti-Life equation. Maybe it wasn't so original after all.

Lemme think about this, and try again later.
 
 
Mario
20:27 / 03.04.06
Nobody's done Sandman, AFAIK, but Priest did a decent job with making Hydro-Man dangerous. And, of course, their's Sand, from JSA, who has the same shtick.

The hard part is to make Sandman useful without making him too Gaiman. But there's still a useful tidbit that Morpheus doesn't use much.

Following years of mental manipulation, Flint Marko has gone completely psychotic. Now completely amoral, he's ditched the whole striped T-shirt look approach to become the deadliest assassin in the Marvel U. He can disguise himself as anyone or anything, and is completely immune to physical harm. Plus, he's learned how to temporarily fuse his particles into razor-sharp glass... the sharpest knives around.

Forget petty theft. Nowadays, the word has gone out: If you want to put someone to sleep... call the Sandman.
 
 
grant
20:41 / 03.04.06
I love the idea of him lobotomizing people with needles made of glass, actually. If you really want to hype the creepy "Sandman makes you sleep!" thing.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
20:44 / 03.04.06
The Sandman idea sounds a bit like Clayface from Batman, but with knives, which seems like a pretty good way to go.

I think a good Cyclops solo and out of his element story could be about an alien race kidnapping him to use his unlimited power as an energy source. I am picturing Scott in a Clockwork Orange style chair, his eyes held open firing constantly for weeks until he uses his uncanny ability to calculate angles to shift very slightly and create a bank shot that frees him.

His enemy in the story could be either a power mad general or something, or a global leader who is willing to do whatever it takes to keep his people alive.

Of course Scott would eventually get home, with the help of, oh, lets say Galactus or the Starjammers...
 
 
Mario
20:51 / 03.04.06
Sand, clay.. you get the idea.

I like your Cyclops idea, although it does require him to be fairly passive for a good chunk of time. Perhaps have Havok be taken too? That way, you could have Alex working with the resistance to find his brother, and Cyke having dramatic monologues.

(The reason I chose Alex is that, despite their long histories, they've NEVER had an extended storyline together).

And having the Starjammers show up at the end makes it a family reunion.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:09 / 03.04.06
An interesting aspect of a eh . . . Summers' end storyline could be that rather than the ultimate bank shot saving him, he could simply run out of power. Perhaps he specificly needs the energy from his home star to power his beams and now he must rely only on his other skills.

Havok's ability to absorb general cosmic energy could have his power levels constantly rising. This increase in power could create preasure upon his mental stability. Now you've got a sort of Road trip adventure with a de-powered Cyclops and an over-powered chaotic Havok. Presumably Scott Summers would be a crack shot with a pistol.
 
 
Mario
21:30 / 03.04.06
Unfortunately, there's been plenty of examples of Scott remaining powered while away from Earth. Anyway, I like the buddy-movie aspect of it. Making Havok nuts takes away from that.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:08 / 03.04.06
True. However he's rarely unleashed his "FULL-POWER" for any extended period of time. The story could easily have him spending a month of eyes wide open blasting to deplete his pool of energy. Afterwhich he'd need to be in proximity to his home star to power up.
 
 
Mario
22:23 / 03.04.06
Something like that happened once, I think...

OK, here's an extended quote from the old Handbooks. Of course, this could be retconned:

Cyclops is a mutant with the superhuman ability to project a beam of ruby-colored concussive force from his eyes.

The precise nature of this energy and it's origin remain unknown, although various hypotheses have been made in the past. There appears to be a direct correlation between the length of the time Cyclops has been exposed to sunlight and the intensity and longevity of the force beams.

Cyclops apparently somehow metabolizes sunlight and presumably starlight as well, in the process of generating the force beams.

It has been argued that Cyclops could therefore prevent himself from
generating the force beams by confining himself to places sealed off from sunlight. However, for unknown reasons, deprivation of sunlight for extended periods sets up a dangerous physiological imbalance of unknown nature in Cyclops's body.
 
 
Shrug
22:28 / 03.04.06
Oh, I had thought that Cyclops eyes opened to another dimension of some sort. Why I do not know?
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:35 / 03.04.06
Wouldn't it be cool if his eyebeams were associated with the similar colored eye beams of those "MINDLESS ONES" Dr. Strange (and most recently Marvel Boy) has fought?

Both he and they might access that same source of energy.

Perhaps there's a different source of radiation that, once metabolized, actually shorts out or diffuses the force behind that energy. From that point on he'd just have a great big pink flashlight shooting out of his eyes; harmless but annoying.


hmmm . . . along those lines perhaps placing him in a magical other dimension where the physics of his eye beams are altered could be another interesting situation for our generally logical hero.
 
 
Aertho
23:16 / 03.04.06
Good Lord. grant wins. Cheers, sir!
 
 
Aertho
01:55 / 04.04.06
my favo Spidey villain never written
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:57 / 04.04.06
Villains shouldn't be so...so...so cute. I just want to take him home and feed him peanut butter sandwiches - unless he's allergic - and then look over his book reports for him. Maybe he was the only kid that Peter Parker picked on, back in elementary school?
 
 
grant
14:38 / 04.04.06
He looks like Spider-Man's Bat-Mite.

I have a challenge. Being politically savvy, we're all aware of high-ranking Republican senators Arlen Specter and Orrin Hatch, right? They're currently teaming up to push for expanded stem cell research, which is a good thing. Or so they would have us believe.

But... their names, man! Those are a dead giveaway! Specter? Hatch? OBVIOUSLY they have NEFARIOUS ALTER EGOS! Untouchable right-wing politicians by day... but by night?

What villains are these?
 
 
Aertho
15:10 / 04.04.06
They're high ranking officers of the Filth, natch.
 
 
Triplets
18:22 / 04.04.06
Brill pic. Is that something you worked up while "on the clock", Chad?

Name? Chris Caddis?

Let's take some ideas from yer various winged buggers. Oooh, apparently the caddis fly is known as the underwater architecht because it uses silk to build stuff while larvae. Maybe he nicks some webbing from Parker (fits with his super-thief motif) and builds a spider-trap in one of the Lizard's old sewer lairs.

Flyspeak
Okay. Parker's a human spider. Gets his powers from them. But he never really has anything to do with spiders does he? I've never seen him with a pet spider or anything like that or studying some sort of Spiderology bollocks. We'll keep that for Flyboy because 1) he's an Alter-Parker and 2) I fucking hate creepy crawlies.

Chris already has his flysense in the form of his seventeen-flavours of flyvision. We're going to steal from Mozzer's Bumbleboy here and give Fly the ability to speak to insects - but! he won't be Doctor Flylittle. Infact we'll make Flyspeak an almost non-power, very weak and actually quite creepy when it starts. Occasionally, ie. when it's dramatic, the buzzing of insects near fly will start to form voices, messages, cryptic clues, paranoid shouting. One time a big, meaty swarm of the fuckers might even form a horrid face. Lord of the Flies stylee. At this point it occurs I'm stealing bits from Crowley's cassette player out of Gaimatchett's "Good Omens".

Can Flyboy fly? Can we steal from Mozzer's Angel and give him a pair of sectoid wings?
 
 
grant
20:44 / 04.04.06
No way. A kid that looks that mischievous should just be able to jump really high. Like Superman used to do. Like a kid on a trampoline.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:32 / 04.04.06
I can see him doing that La Parkour style jumping, skuffing up the sides of skyscrapers getting his footprints up on the windows of the 69th floor of the chrysler building.
 
 
Mario
22:36 / 04.04.06
Maybe make him a BASE jumper? Not so much a villain as a thrill seeker.
 
 
Panic
00:53 / 05.04.06
that La Parkour style jumping, skuffing up the sides of skyscrapers

This phrase just screamed 'Ultimate Batroc' at me. In a good way.

A French-Algerian thief and mercenary, savate expert and extreme acrobat. Lose the silly goatee, but keep the goggles and put him in something more functional than purple and beige tights.

Oh, and give him a grand-mere who was in the Resistance, and may have shared some intimate moments "behind enemy lines" with Cap! This writes itself!
 
 
Mario
01:05 / 05.04.06
I had a different take on Ultimate Batroc. Basically, I had him as a cross between Jean Reno & Chou Yun-Fat. The reason he specializes in savate is because his hands have .45 automatics in them. Give him an Ultimate-style leather costume, and some stylin' sunglasses, and the goatee suddenly isn't silly anymore.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:08 / 05.04.06
1. Identify a BIG problem with the comicverse of your choice.

The Marvel-verse has always been far too static. Even the events which "will change the world 4EVAH!" do very little. It needs shaking up on a permanent level.

2. Structure a continuity wide "event" that would solve said problem. Reality waves and slaughterings are acceptable, but be creative. (ie Crisis on infinite Earths)

It begins in Latveria with an explosion that utterly destroys Doom's castle and the surronding area. When the Fantastic Four investigate they discover a bunker beneath the ruins which has survived the blast. Opening it, they discover an army of Doombots which have apparently torn each other to pieces. At the centre of the bunker is the body of Victor von Doom, torn limb from limb.

Over the course of the next few months all of the major groups (hero and villain) come under occasional attack from Doombots, apparently operating under some kind of "scorched earth" policy left by Doom should the world survive his demise. The Doombots are efficiently dispatched by the supers.

Then a string of explosions destroy the various super-villain prisons of Marvel Earth. The few surviving prisoners (those tough enough to survive nuclear blasts) report seeing Ultron appear out of nowhere and apparently explode.

Divided by the events of Civil War, the various super-groups have to each follow their own investigations. All the while tensions within the teams begin to bubble and come to a head. Arguments, out-and-out brawls, even one attempted murder (Hank Pym goes "Ultimate" on Jan).

Who, or what is causing this?

3. Build from scratch, or re-purpose a villain that works on several levels. How does ze threaten all levels of herowork? (ie Sheeda minions of all shapes and sizes)

Sentinels, dear boy, but not your common or garden purple robots. The nano-sentinels of New X-Men fame are bringing about the Days of Future Past scenario. Their first step was invasion of Psycho-man's atomic sized realm, utilising Pym Particle technology to enter it and overwhelm it. They had the perfect hiding place to launch their assault on the superhuman menace.

Getting rid of Doom was laughably easy. The n-sentinels invaded his Doombots and reprogrammed them. The same with Ultron.

In fact, every AI superhuman in the Marvel-verse has been contaminated by n-sentinel re-programming. Sleeper agents who strike out at their compatriots at critical moments. Vision, Iron Man's armour, Ultron, Doombots, Machine Man. All under sentinel control.

The sentinels co-opt Psycho-man's emotion manipulating tech and engage in psychological warfare against the "alpha" mentality of the superhumans. The Doombot attacks allow for scans to be taken that result in sentinel killing machines to be developed which are immune to the vast majority of powers.

The enemy is relentless, unbeatable, and everywhere. Baseline humanity can be re-programmed at the neurological level to turn against the supers.
 
 
Aertho
16:11 / 10.04.06
New challenge:

Due to the apparrent success of various villain-themed books, or protagonists that aren't necessarily clean as a whistle... (Weapon X, Villains United, Mystique, Catwoman, Emma Frost) choose a classic supervillian and fashion for them a premise by which a comic series could be launched.

Something of an All-Star challenge as well here, but strictly villains.

Further constraints:

1. Must pit the villain of choosing against a hero from another franchise, ie Joker takes on Green Lantern.

2. Must stay in continuity. No ultimatizing.

3. Invent a new character as you give the villain you've chosen a sidekick.
 
 
Mario
18:01 / 10.04.06
I decided to go Marvel for this one, simply because DC does it so well already.

My suggestion? The newest incarnation of Freedom Force, a group of tamed super-villains who work for the US government as a form of parole.

This time, tho, rather than go for mutants (who are notoriously difficult to control, and there aren't many left anyway) they decided to recruit a team that already has a history together.

The Frightful Four.

The focus of the book will be on the Wizard, a villain who is as smart as Richards or Doom, but lacks their reputation... something that consistently galls him.

His second, and long-time ally, is Pete Pulaski, aka the Trapster & Paste Pot Pete. It amuses me to consider the idea of him chosing a different codename every arc, in his continuous search for acceptance.

Muscle for the group will be provided by Dragon Man... mainly because nobody else wanted him. Not so much a member as a pet, he's fairly tame, although he seems fixated on the idea that the Wizard's hat is an egg.

The fourth member is a budding young supervillain named Ira Porter, a technical genius who is the Wizard's biggest fan, and calls himself The Apprentice. The Wizard can't stand him, but finds his offbeat inventions occasionally useful.

Throw in Henry Gyrich as their government liason/straight man, and we're in business. I suggest the Runaways as a first target. They should interact well.
 
 
garyancheta
18:03 / 10.04.06
Prometheus: Dark Phoenix Rising

Promtheus snags Flamebird against her will and brainwashes her ala Patty Hearst. He does a reverse V for Vendetta, where, in his crooked house in the stasis zone, he breaks down and destroys the young Flamebird mentally and physically...then rebuilds her as a fighting machine of injustice and terror.

Then he sets her off against her greatest inspiration, Nightwing...in order to take away his enemy's only son and to make Flamebird his ultimate weapon of death and horror.

- G
 
  

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