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Things that you find really attractive/exciting that aren't the 'hey bits!' norm

 
  

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jeed
19:09 / 02.02.06
i really like to see people doing something well when they're not doing it to impress. People climbing well on their own, skating when no-one's watching, or creating a better painting/story/meal than the last one - usually people trying to perfect a skill or do something new for no other reason than they want to.

I guess it's commitment to something, for the love of it.

And folks who can just sidle in and get served quickly at the bar. It's an underrated skill.

Sideline: I'm monosexual as well DM, but I find myself attracted to anyone that does this stuff. If it's blokes then I might want to aggresively spoon them, it it's girls i might just want to get to know them as friends. I know english isn't your first language, so maybe read it as 'things i find interesting in people'.
 
 
*
19:17 / 02.02.06
judging people for their fetishes is a bit pointless, since they have little or no control over them.

Personally, while I agree that judging people for their fetishes is often an exercise in futility, it is something we do all the time. Plushiephilia is one of the few fetishes that frightens and disturbs me on a completely irrational level, and I think I'd have a hard time talking about sexual matters with a devoted plushiephile, let alone dating/sexing one. But no one is judging anyone's fetishes here-- MD is asking about language, and emotional responses to the idea of leaving ambiguous what gender of person one might be attracted to. It's great if people only dig women, and I don't find anything wrong with people stating that in this context, but I think it's interesting to draw attention to it and I'm glad MD did so.
 
 
Chiropteran
19:18 / 02.02.06
...this is a thread about fetishes...

I'm not sure that it is, though, or at least it's not a thread just about fetishes. Fetishes, as you observed, are often closely associated with objectification, in that they function independently of the personhood of the fetishized person (or wearer/bearer/etc. of the fetish object) -- "any man in high-heeled thigh boots," and who cares if he's also a talented poet who tends bonsai trees. It's just about the boots (possibly in conjunction with the gender of the wearer), and that's it - it's a kind of exclusive hyper-specificity.

On the other hand, many, if not all, of the characteristic described in this thread are exciting precisely because they do relate to individual personhood - they complexify the person (if only on a fantasy level, depending on how well you know them) by being inclusive. Suddenly showing passion for something you never imagined they'd even heard of, the grace with which they handle crises or frustration, the vulnerability that shows through when the veneer cracks -- all these things add to our overall image of a person and help [us] realize that [the people we are attracted to] are complete people, and not simply 'objects of desire.'

[*sigh* Why am I in such a soap-boxey mood today? And I'm not getting any work done...]

I do agree, to a point, that the fantasies that bubble up from our subconscious can sometimes be troubling, and that we shouldn't necessarily be morally condemned for what turns us on. However, once something does emerge into consciousness, it is often important (and healthy) to critically examine it. This post of Seth's (in the Temple) is a great example--most especially because it relies on rigorous self-examination, without recourse to shame or "finger-pointing."

Part of this process, ideally self-led, is an examination of the way we talk about our "fetishes," and there's been some of that in this thread (and I'd love to see more). I know (I know, I know...) that this is the Convo', and there seems to be an idea that the Conversation is exempt from serious discussion and examined language, but I'm thrilled to see this thread here, and I'm glad we're talking through some of this stuff outside of Headshop.

Meanwhile, I apologize for hopping the bus to Tangentville yet again. To get myself back on track: Someone biting their lower lip, whether as a sign of concentration, nervousness, or desire. My heart melts.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:27 / 02.02.06
I'm not sure that it is, though, or at least it's not a thread just about fetishes

I stand corrected

btw, what the heck is plushiephilia?
 
 
Chiropteran
19:32 / 02.02.06
btw, what the heck is plushiephilia?

Sexual attraction to, or a loving relationship with, stuffed animals, unless I'm mistaken.
 
 
*
19:39 / 02.02.06
Cheers, Lep. Mostly for your eloquent discussion of the role of critical examination of sexual attraction, but also for that concise definition.
 
 
Chiropteran
19:48 / 02.02.06
Thank you. It's what I do (defining, that is).
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:54 / 02.02.06
Sexual attraction to, or a loving relationship with, stuffed animals

Well, there's something very specific, ain't it?
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:55 / 02.02.06
and by specific I mean peculiar...
 
 
grant
20:13 / 02.02.06
Well, as a Very Straight Man, I find people who are just like me to be incredibly attractive. Just the right height, just the right softness around the chin, just the right ruggedness to the jaw. The same sandy hair, the same carefree smirk, the same unusually bent thumbs....
 
 
*
20:22 / 02.02.06
Well, grant, as a Very Bent Man, I have to agree.

Oh! Here's an interesting one: I prefer guys who are similar to me personality-wise, but my relationships with women have been with women who were very different from me in terms of personality. I'm often puzzled by this tendency.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
21:51 / 02.02.06
If they sound "heteropanic", that's because I'm afraid I might be the last one left.

No! I am HeteroSpartacus!

Just thought of some new ones.

Slight, previously unperceived vulnerability of any sort - physical or otherwise. I am thinking particularly of a couple of people at university whom I had found attractive, but not overly so, until I saw person A, weeks later limping up the road (some sort of leg injury I guess, no idea really, but I was affected from a distance of 50ft). I hope this is not a disability fetish - I think it was just the sudden perception of fragility.

Person B I thought was a cock (an attractive, tall, blond one to be sure) - until ze had to give a presentation and it turned out ze had a nervous stutter. I nearly dissolved.

In fact, I find stutters sexy per se. I guess I just like my non-specific objects of desire strong yet weak, like vodka in Earl Grey. And, as with vodka in Earl Grey, I like to be surprised.
 
 
Char Aina
22:06 / 02.02.06
oh yeah...

girls crying.
it doesnt really work unless there is a lot of black eye make up to run, and it works way better if there is a snarl in there somewhere, a defiant "fuck you, tear ducts, for making me look like i give a fuck" flash.

it totally ruins it if i made them cry in the first place, or if they're generally prone to crying.

boys crying is kinda 'meh', to be honest.
i mean, i appreciate a man sensitive and carefree enough to drip from the eye, but it has yet to make me drip fom the cock.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
22:24 / 02.02.06
In the realm of 'people doing things well': people doing art. Has to be really physical though- lots of broad brush strokes, stepping back from the canvas, shifting around, stepping back in and slapping some paint on. Getting paint on hands/clothes/face is a plus too. Painting's probably ideal because let's face it, paint itself is sexy, but anything works, really. A guy I knew in high school ended up going to art school, where he was prone to working for stretches of over a day straight making enormous sculptures. I would dearly love to watch that sometime.

Um. Nervousness/obsessive-compulsive behavior, absolutely absolutely. Probably a combination of vulnerability/instinct to protect/predatoriness which someone identified earlier, and the fact that I have a host of bizarre compulsive habits ("Hey, you have to do weird stuff too? Awesome!")- f'rinstance, when I walk I can't step on cracks, so on sidewalks I have to constantly adjust my walk to avoid them. If I get to a pattern of bricks running diagonally, I generally have to turn my feet so that they're pointing in the same direction as the lines of bricks, which means I basically walk sideways.

This one's gender specific- girls who are dorky on a level approaching my own. Appreciation of the unintentional humor in bad movies, a love of comic books, or the ability to survive one of my drunken debates about the relative merits of different classes of Star Destroyer, are all wonderful things.

Also, if you resist the urge to finish my sentences for me when I pause to collect my thoughts, I will love you forever.
 
 
Char Aina
22:32 / 02.02.06
Also, if you resist the urge to finish my sentences for me when I pause to collect my thoughts, I will love you forever.

well, i guess that means

it's over for me.
it's OVER for me.
i know that you love me,
but can't you see baby;
its O-VER for me.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
22:36 / 02.02.06
Just out of interest, when "het boys kissing" was mentioned very early on, had it been "het girls kissing" do you think it would also have passed uncommented?

I have no problem with either... I merely pose the question.
 
 
Shrug
22:46 / 02.02.06
When people add minute detail to something or a small personal flourish to a mundane task.

A look of intense studiousness. One which is accompanied by a furrowed brow (I think someone mentioned this earlier) is always a pleasure to behold.

I get a bit swoony when people leave me notes about things. Little snippets of what they did or are going to do that day, harmless blather or even instructions. I love notewriters and notes which IMO are far superior to and end up being just a lot nicer than the electronic equivalent (texting).
 
 
Char Aina
22:51 / 02.02.06
i dont.
its so damn straight that i dont think it could have possibly passed without comment.
(but then i we all know i am more WhatIsWrongWithBarbelith than BarbelithRightOnMafia and as such prone to mistakes in this field)

liking stuff that richard littlejohn likes is clearly troublesome, and i reckon he prolly likes hot het girls kissing like nobody's business.

littlejohn thinks all policewomen are lesbians, by the way.
PC lesbian!
GEDDIT?!?!
 
 
Ganesh
22:57 / 02.02.06
Hmm. My sexuality's hugely informed by my tendency to fetishise, and a lot of stuff that would fall under the remit of this thread is probably an extension of or additional twist upon my more 'mainstream' preoccupations - or perhaps the greater-than-the-sum-of-parts overlap of two fetishes.

For example: I like leather, wearing it and seeing men in it. I like fortysomething straight guys (fathers in the park with their kids - aww). I like people being 'knocked off balance' slightly by discovering an unexpected kink in their sexuality.

So... I like seeing straight men, out with their partners/families, trying on leather - in a department store, say (John Lewis used to be just the right degree of stodgy, fashion-wise, to observe this phenomenon). I like the way they zip themselves into this or that coat or jacket and go through the motions of frowning into the mirror, trying the pockets (because, obviously, there's nothing sexual or even sensual about this; they're looking for functionality), turning to check out their own arses (typically, they do this within 30 seconds). I like the combination of their being at least slightly turned on, sensually and/or narcissistically, and being faintly embarrassed by this (because partner/shop assistant are looking on expectantly). The awkwardness of finding themselves in the position of sexual object...

For me, there are a number of fetishes like this, which are minor tributaries of the biggies.
 
 
Liger Null
23:06 / 02.02.06
Ditto the leather thing.

Brown leather, not black.

Except on Fonzie, of course.
 
 
Olulabelle
23:48 / 02.02.06
I really don't understand the heteropanic thing.

In response to this thread I can write:

WOMEN who are really comfortable with being female.
WOMEN who do the whole Burlesque look to exception.

My username is fairly gender specific, but my orientation isn't. Lots of people who have posted 'women who' or 'girls who' don't have gender-specific names so how are these people labelled 'heteropanic' unless the person who did so has a deep and overriding knowledge of every Barbelith poster's gender? Mr Disco, do you know the gender and orientation of every Barbelith poster? If not I suggest you take your heteropanic and turn it back in upon yourself. What are you afraid of? Why is it not okay to be gender specific?

Posting about heteropanic in response to another poster's comments about (the assumed) opposite gender is, if you ask me, as deep-rooted a prejudice as if someone had made a comment about same sex posts. If anyone had done that here there would be outcry, but clearly it's OK for Mr Disco to call 'heteropanic'.

Whisky asked what 'homopanic' was - well maybe there's such a thing as 'orientationpanic'. Definition: people (generally tending not to be hetero) presuming that any reference to specific female characteristics or any mention of women specifically means the poster is certainly male and determined to prove their heterosexuality.

It's totally out of order is what it is, but that's OK, because we're Barbelith. I think Flyboy was right when he brought up his lost Policy post about us being 'pro-queer'. We are pro-queer, to the extent of being 'anti-hetero'.

Is that a good thing? Personally I don't think so. We're supposed to be a community. Communities have many components. Fight-starting comments based on blatant assumptions about gender without any logical explanation don't subscribe to the community feel to me.
 
 
Ganesh
00:03 / 03.02.06
Perhaps, Olulabelle, you ought to post about it in the Policy?
 
 
Chiropteran
00:05 / 03.02.06
We are pro-queer, to the extent of being 'anti-hetero'.

Are we, as a community? Yes, Mr. Disco's 'heteropanic' stuff was leaning that way, but I didn't feel like people were really rallying behind it. Does (broadly) 'this sort of thing' go on a lot in other threads?
 
 
Chiropteran
00:11 / 03.02.06
(Sorry, ignore that -- to the Policy?)

As you were, thread.

*bites lower lip nervously*
 
 
Olulabelle
00:21 / 03.02.06
Ganesh, maybe I should have, but I decided that I don't need to post about it in the policy because the debate is in this thread, and my comments relate specifically to this debate and a comment made here during that debate.
 
 
Ganesh
00:24 / 03.02.06
I'm going to, though, because I think this is a wider discussion topic.
 
 
De Selby
02:41 / 03.02.06
"Bogan" has nothing to do with economic status, and everything to do with attitude and style. Theres no such thing as a "stylish bogan" but there are plenty of "rich bogans". Whats a "chav"?

As to my preference away from bogan's smoking, I would say its more a result of cigarette smoking in movies, than advertising as we don't get any cigarette advertising at all in Australia. I blame Anna Karina...

Interesting the way a thread that should be just conversation, turns into people defending wording and sexual preference....

anyway

(Portuguese is very SEXY)
 
 
Char Aina
03:27 / 03.02.06
"Bogan" has nothing to do with economic status, and everything to do with attitude and style.

its nice that you feel that way.
i dont.

a thread on derogatory class rhetoric that may help you with your understanding of the ill-feeling towards the pejorative use of chav and other words.

Theres no such thing as a "stylish bogan" but there are plenty of "rich bogans".

are there many upper class bogans?
or even upper middle class ones?

how do you know somone is a bogan?
what gives it away?
 
 
De Selby
06:03 / 03.02.06
ok here's a better question. Despite the fact that I told you what the word "bogan" means to me, you're going to ask me questions about how you feel about it?

Do you think its a little pretentious to presume that you know better, when you can't even come close to confirming what it means where I am? Or what it means to me?

isn't that a little self-righteous?
 
 
*
06:05 / 03.02.06
GGM, sorry to hear about the thread. Where shall I send the flowers?
 
 
De Selby
06:11 / 03.02.06
yeah I was thinking that as I was typing out my response, so I deleted a lot of it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:48 / 03.02.06
In which context, the reprivileging of the physical body through the back door - by specifying the gender of the person in whom you find that behaviour attractive - might be seen as significant. But that's assuming that for all the posters, gender = physical body (or more exactly, physical body -> gender).

Well, not really - it's assuming for the posters who are doing it that gender=physical body
 
 
Char Aina
12:02 / 03.02.06
ok here's a better question. Despite the fact that I told you what the word "bogan" means to me, you're going to ask me questions about how you feel about it?

i am asking you how you feel about it.
you seem to think that it is divorced form any class or economic slur, and that's great. i could tell you about my relative who tells me that he can use the words negro (and colored as a noun) because it isnt meant as a racist term, if you like.

Do you think its a little pretentious to presume that you know better, when you can't even come close to confirming what it means where I am?

no.
i have more experience than you perhaps assume of australia and australians. i can come more than close, bro.
you can say the word means whatever you like, you are still going to appear to be using a class-based slur that i find kinda repugnant in the context you used it.

i asked you what makes it clear that someone is a bogan. perhaps your answer to that will make me understand your point of view.

in the meantime, have you checked out the links mordant and i gave you?
 
 
Char Aina
12:07 / 03.02.06
wiki on bogan
the thread on derogatory class rhetoric
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:22 / 03.02.06
_Annnyway_. Gender/physicality is not so relevant to me, because, as mentioned, brain in jar. As such...

Recently, kindness, or more precisely consideration. Possibly this is just because it's something I don't have much of a gift for, but watching somebody look for the right way of expressing something, or seeing them check themselvesin the face of a difficult subject... compassionate can be very passionate.
 
  

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