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World Cup 2006

 
  

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elene
16:14 / 26.06.06
Oh, tough luck, astrojax. That was really close. Sorry for calling you Benny above, too. Um, my electrolytes were low I guess, or something? Anyway, sorry.
 
 
Dead Megatron
17:42 / 26.06.06
Oh, the shame! Oh, the ignominy

That. was. not. fair!!! The socceroos were screwed big time, and not in hte good way. But, who says football is fair? Well, it's not.

Mind you, I was busy doing a (extremely annoying) paper for school and only got to see the final 15 minutes or so. But, on those 15 minutes, I saw the Australian team kicking major Italian ass! They were not only putting all the pressure on the adversaries's goal, they were doing it in a beautiful, art-like way (my triumphalistic side wants to say "Brazil-like"), and if the game had gone to overtime, they would've won, almost sure.

But then, ten freaking seconds before the end...

The penalty that wasn't.

No fair, no sir.

Well, astrojax, you guys did great. Hope to see ya next time. We'll get back at the Italians for you.
 
 
sTe
19:48 / 26.06.06
That's assuming you beat Ghana of course which lets be honest is extremely likely, but as a wise man once said 'it's a funny old game' ...sorry

Think people are being a little harsh on Ronaldo. He was fouled quite badly in the Netherlands Portugal brawl. OK he does tend to dive fairly often, but was said to have been beaten up on by Van Nilsteroy at United a couple of times as well as the reported comments made about his father, so can see why he may be a bit upset.

I'd like to see a Ronaldo wonder goal as the high point for Portugal in their 3-1 defeat by England.

Also feel for the incrediably unlucky Aussies going out on a bad penalty decision, the Ukraine Switzerland game isn't a patch on that one and I can see it going to a Penalties after extra time (cue someone scoring in the last minute).
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:22 / 26.06.06
He was fouled quite badly in the Netherlands Portugal brawl.

Yeah, since you mentioned that game, which I missed, was it as violent as people has been telling me? The Press in here has even called it "The Battle of Nuremberg" (which is kinda cool).
 
 
sTe
20:54 / 26.06.06
To be honest I only got to see the first 20 minutes so most of my opinion is based on watching the highlights show later. From what I saw both teams were lucky not to have more players sent off, despite it finishing nine a side (don't know is this a record for a world cup tie?) Certainly in the last few minutes of the game every tackle made appreared to be an attempt to foul a player and following several bad tackles players from both teams ran to the incident for some of the usual pushing and shoving, followed by some sneaky digs at each other when the ref was trying to deal with someone else. Figo only received a yellow card for a headbutt which although was not particularly hard, would have led to a sending off in most games anywhere in the world.

Still at least there was a bit of passion unlike the awful Ukraine Switzerland game which must rate as the dullest match so far this world cup. At least one of my predictions has finally been right (although anyone watching could have guessed no goals from very early on), thank goodness Ukraine managed to score some of their penalties.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
21:11 / 26.06.06
I really think the only fitting way for that match to end was the first ever world cup decision on the toss of a coin.
 
 
astrojax69
21:19 / 26.06.06
o, the humanity...

faaaaaark. iran? this is more shattering, to lose like that. numb still. grey fog, torpor of tragedy. i wanted to wake up and find we'd been successful in appealing that awful decision, get to play again. sad light of day...

italian theatre sports wins again...? or just experience:

australia didn't win the world cup 'cause we have no real world class striker. simple. we dominated the italians - though that was somewhat predictable, they sitting back and allowing the opposition to play the ball around the middle of the park with no chinks in the wall... we never really looked like breaking them down. but we deserved extra time and i wonder at guss not bringing on aloisi earlier, and maybe tall josh kennedy in real time... bugger bugger bugger and damn!

of all people, for neill to have condceded that [not a-] penalty in the 93rd minute. tragedy. but once again, we faffled in the middle of the pitch waiting for time to happen, the italians pushed forward and got a result. s'what wins matches and world cups - their experience ultimately prevailed. dammit!

i still don't fancy italy against argentina without significant improvement, but ukraine will be a stroll - or should be. poor swiss - first team ever to go home empty handed from a wc without conceding a single goal! but they too lack a striker of the class required at this level.

think i'll go off and have a few kids, train one of 'em to be the next after next ronaldo... brucealdo?
 
 
astrojax69
21:39 / 26.06.06
obviously, that's 'guus', not 'guss'...

ghana v brasil? could be a cracker... good luck dm! [i tip you 3-1] goals in this phase, please??!!

and to answer your query, dm, yes the holland portugal match was a sorry and torrid affair that was handled shambolically, but not as badly as it might seem from 16 yellow, 4 red cards issued... the tackle on ronaldo was awful, possibly demanding a straight red. and i still maintain deco's card was a debacle on behalf of the ref. yes, deco had the ball, but in the bounce of play. the dutch player came into him and grabbed him - there is never an excuse for that - and deco evaded the grasp and rolled the ball back to where the free kick was to be taken, how is that a yellow card offence?? i gather the portuguese are appealing that one (o, can we appeal that awful penalty too??) but even without him, england should be no barrier. but it was an awful game.

compare it to australia v italy, the 'tough, physical style' of australia... where? just good football, sans striker... holland showed that too, against us in the friendly pre-cup. got what they deserved, i rekkun. battle of bern, now war of munich, [in]famous games... can portugal go all the way??

damn, can't believe we're out like that, but football continues - vive the beautiful game! bring it on...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:56 / 26.06.06

australia didn't win the world cup 'cause we have no real world class striker. simple.


Well, I'd suggest also that you'd need a more reliable provider of midfield inspiration than the Boron Rod, but nonetheless your game should have gone to extra time and thence to penalties. Italy were underwhelming, and you were very impressive - rather like Greece at Euro 2004, in fact.
 
 
The Falcon
00:27 / 27.06.06
The Boron Rod had gout today, and might otherwise have provided the necessary creative spark - failing that, you're right astro, and while G_d knows it's foolhardy to critique Guus' management (he'll probably take Russia to Euro 2008 semis or finals,) there really should have been an Aloisi or Kennedy on 10-20 minutes earlier, because Oz did not for all their possession and territory, against a team intent on shutting the door right firm, look very much like scoring. However, he was likely relying on Aloisi in extra-time to do just that - hindsight's a wonderful thing.

I can't say I'm all that upset, really; while I'd normally support an underdog, the commentators have peeved me by deciding Australia are, like, British and Italy were - even after the sending-off - creating better chances when breaking (because they have much better players,) and still looked an elegant, classy outfit for the most part. Very hard to break down. As usual. Also, I kinda want them to win so my revised prediction is right, and therefore the sport continues to look like the one area I've a chance of trumping the majority of B'lith on Teh Knowledge of. Regardless, Australia have established themselves on the world scene finally, and have hopefully established the sport formerly horrifically dubbed 'Wogball' some more in the country (even though it does seem a bit unfair, given how good they are at all the other ones. Be nice if there were some black players in the team too, mind.)

I 'allowed' SO to watch Big Bruv in order for a guarantee that I get to watch Spain-France tomorrow, and thankfully missed an hour of the utterly dreary Ukraine-Switzerland tie, which... you've got to think Italy have a coast to the semis, really. That probably makes it more painful for Australians, but there it is. The Ukraine have now been involved in what must be hot contenders for worst matches of the tournament, and I want them out - coach is a racist cock too, which only helps to increase the desire. Watching dreck like that is really giving me moodswings; I'm desperately vested in watching a good tournament (for the record, since 1990, I think 98 was definitely the best one) and I can't decide if this is yet; looked a dead cert after the first game. I also missed the Argentina-Mexico and Germany-Sweden ties due to having a bollocks time at a wedding, and the former seems to have been a classic, the latter a very good performance - did see the goals, mind you, and Maxi's winner's is best for me thus far, just ahead of Cole, Cambiasso and Bakary Kone. High hopes for two crackers tomorrow, come on you Black Stars, etc.
 
 
The Falcon
00:44 / 27.06.06
Re: the penalty & theatre/experience, it's a funny one because, apart from del Piero getting that lad booked I thought Italy were very decent and sportsmanlike, and I don't believe Grosso dived, but rather Neill unfortunately left his shoulder up when basically he should've lain flat; difficult call - not really a pen, but not a simulation either.
 
 
elene
07:00 / 27.06.06
I don't believe he dived either. Neill was all over the place and Grosso was at the end of a long and difficult run. It was a perfectly ordinary penalty that would've been given eight times out of ten outside this weirdly refereed tournament too.

Concerning Deco (again): Laws of the Game

    Cautionable Offences
    
    A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
    
        1. is guilty of unsporting behaviour
        ...
        4. delays the restart of play
        ...


In my opinion Deco was guilty of both of these offences, and what's more as he picked the ball up and started off with it I thought, "what a dork," which is usually proof .

Unless you're the goalkeeper or have just committed a very blatant handball, there is no way to have the ball in your hands when the other side get a free kick. Deco oughtn't to have picked it up, just like Zambrotta yesterday (I think), and he knew it too. Time-wasting and provocation, or ungentlemanly conduct or whatever it's called - yeah, unsporting behaviour. And his first yellow card was for a really vicious, dangerous foul too.
 
 
pear
08:30 / 27.06.06
And yet strangely, the press are reporting that Portugal are trying to get Deco's first yellow card overturned.

Good luck with that - it was a horrific challenge - but you never can tell with FIFA
 
 
elene
09:04 / 27.06.06
Portugal are trying to get Deco's first yellow car overturned

Because the Dutch were guilty of unsporting behaviour? Well, it could mean an additional yellow card for the Dutch, I suppose, but Portugal have really got a nerve given that FIFA could just as well - yeah, I know they won't - acknowledge the error of not sending off Figo for the headbutt and suspend him for it now. Oh, but that's Portugal!
 
 
nedrichards is confused
09:30 / 27.06.06
Mentioned upthread I know, but is there any better sporting injury than gout? I think not. I'm picturing Kewell in Oliver Twist, possibly with the boyish Xabi Alonso as Oliver.
 
 
The Falcon
14:51 / 27.06.06
You jammy samba bastards.

Dida saves with an ankle, Adriano scores from a clearly offside position, and Ghana will probably lose by at least three now, despite outplaying Brazil in every area of the latter's half.
 
 
The Falcon
14:53 / 27.06.06
Oh, Portu-goal have lost the Deco appeal, but Ronaldo is '80%' to play.
 
 
The Falcon
19:54 / 27.06.06
Poor old Spain, eh? Always the bridesmaid...

Really thought they'd do a France team that have looked short of ideas and mismanaged tonight, and have every chance of seeing off Brazil. But on the night, France deserved it - easily the best Round of 16 match game I've seen (missed Germany, Argentina, Portugal) - and they've started to look like contenders again. Sets up a 98 final rematch, this time with fit Ronaldo, should be interesting.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:57 / 27.06.06
and Ghana will probably lose by at least three now, despite outplaying Brazil in every area of the latter's half.

Despite outplaying us the entire game, to be honest. Except fot those three magical moments (wonderful goals...) we played quite poorly. Robinho - who was out injured - does make the difference. But this is the style of Parreira, our coach: he prefers a "lesser" football, as long as it works. And he's one stubborn muthafucka...

Oh well, France just beat Spain out of the Cup. Which means next Saturday is "Revenge for '98 Day"!!!!
 
 
astrojax69
21:52 / 27.06.06
i was just wondering, did spain forget to turn up, or did france suddenly come alive - or both? actually a drab game for the nature of the contest and the result. didn't see any of ghana's exit yet - congrats, dm, you of course did it! now for france, please? - and so we have six former winners among the final eight.

the power bloc continues - anyone game to pick portugal to win it?

shall have to agree to disagree, elene, on the deco incident, but the ref is always right, so you are.


but really, c'mon: the refereeing! what is toi be done?
 
 
Dxncxn
22:36 / 27.06.06
I actually disagree about the Brazil vs. Ghana game. Certainly Ghana had a lot of possession and a few decent chances, but they’ve been really poor in front of goal throughout the tournament - even against the Czechs, when they scored twice but really should have had four or five. Brazil were getting through the defence more or less at will, and I’m fairly confident that, had Ghana scored, Brazil would have roused themselves a little and still won comfortably (like they did against Japan). I’m not saying that Ghana weren’t in the second round on merit, but, to my mind, Brazil were by far the better team today.

Incidentally, did anyone else wince at Adrian Chiles in tonight’s highlights show having the gall to compare Lampard to Ronaldinho? (Both only playing at about 80% of their normal level. Was the argument). Please stop it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:10 / 27.06.06
Certainly, if one thing is going to expose Lampard, for all his virtues, it will be playing like crap in the company of Fabregas, Ronaldinho, Cambiasso... the last of which at least has hit the ground running.

I was genuinely shocked at the Spain/France result - even at 2-1 I was waiting for Spain to come back. How could they not have fought harder than that?
 
 
elene
07:01 / 28.06.06
The referee of the France/Spain game, Mr Rosetti I think, was really excellent. What Rosetti didn't do wrong was that he didn't get all protective about these big, but deeply, deeply dishonest, unsporting and manipulative stars that FIFA has told the referees to protect at all costs. Vieira thought maybe he's soft and tried it on, Rossetti booked him. Then Spain set about trying to get Vieira sent off. Shouldn't work, didn't work.

In contrast, what poor Mr Ivanov did wrong was that he did what he was told, to the letter, instead of using his own judgement. He started off giving yellow cards for piffling fouls and in that way started a secondary contest, that in the second half actually became the main event, to see who could get the most opponents sent off.

Sure, there have been various normal refereeing errors too but the reason the refereeing's been so bad is systematic and a result of FIFA's over-protective manipulations in favour of some of the players. I think.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
07:51 / 28.06.06
Only saw the second half of France/Spain and I thought Spain looked out of ideas for most of it - they didn't really seem to be able to get any width, and going through the middle consistently ran into the French defence. So, not sure how much of it was due to Spain not pulling weight as opposed to France shutting them down.

Let's hope England manage to give a similar performance (to France's) against Portugal. Actually, not sure whether I hope that or not...
 
 
elene
08:19 / 28.06.06
France played really well defensively. All the paths and spaces were blocked, and Spain had no idea what to do about it. Of course there isn't a lot you can do, other than not to let in any goals yourself. And the French goals were good as well. They deserved to win.
 
 
Dxncxn
09:35 / 28.06.06
I actually thought that the ref of the Holland/Portugal game did a reasonable job. In fact, my only real complaint would be the red card that he didn’t give to Boulahrouz for his assault on Ronaldo. It was an incredibly difficult game to referee - niggly, petulant & dishonest everywhere you looked. But that’s down to the attitude of the players, not the official.

In related news, it seems that Thierry’s ‘maybe I should learn to dive’ outburst after the Champions League final was more serious than one might have expected. I agree that France defended very well last night - I struggle to think of any real chances Spain created - although the Vieira goal was more than a little fortuitous, given that Casillas had the original header covered until Ramos (was it?) deflected it in.

I was surprised at how disappointed I was by yesterday night’s result. I don’t worship at the altar of step overs, and, growing up with George Graham’s Arsenal, I have a lot of time for committed, well organised sides that are more than the sum of their parts. But, to my mind, there’s now only one team in the last eight which has been playing glorious, cohesive attacking football, and I think that’s a shame.

Go Argentina.
 
 
elene
10:09 / 28.06.06
to my mind, there’s now only one team in the last eight which has been playing glorious, cohesive attacking football, and I think that’s a shame.

Then what's been lacking in Germany's game, duncan?
 
 
The Falcon
10:19 / 28.06.06
Point.
 
 
The Falcon
10:26 / 28.06.06
To expand: Germany under Klinsi have, after years of being pilloried (and there was always an unpleasant element of '..just like the Nazi govt, eh?' about it) for their 'efficient' and undynamic football, turned into an open, attractive attacking unit - a point I made much earlier here. If anyone's grinding out results in the last eight, it's... well, you know who it is.

I've definitely the highest hopes for a stone-cold classic in the Germany/Argentina face-off of all the quarters - not something I'd ever imagined saying after the utterly dreary 1990 final.
 
 
elene
10:42 / 28.06.06
I've definitely the highest hopes for a stone-cold classic in the Germany/Argentina face-off of all the quarters

Yes indeed, there's no other game with remotely as much potential.

By the way, Argentina also have a tremendous defence, duncan, and give it all the resources it needs to do the job. In their first game against Côte d'Ivoire they played quite like France did yesterday, they just scored their goals earlier.
 
 
Dxncxn
11:51 / 28.06.06
Then what's been lacking in Germany's game, duncan?

I’ve enjoyed watching Germany, and I certainly didn’t mean to suggest they were Englandesque, if that’s how it came across. Even in the Poland game, when the strikers were struggling, they’ve always been entertaining. Their performances as a whole have been better than anyone at the tournament except for Argentina, and I’m torn between excited anticipation of Friday afternoon and a slight disappointment that the teams are meeting this early. I’ve thought that Italy, Portugal and Brazil have also looked good in patches - especially Italy in their game against Ghana. It’s just...maybe I’m expecting too much - particularly nowadays, with the balance between club & international football swinging ever more in favour of the clubs - but when I picture the final stages of the World Cup, I’d always hope that there would be two or three teams that were playing so well it would take my breath away. And Germany, for all their positives, haven't been quite that good, for me, up to this point.

By the way, Argentina also have a tremendous defence, duncan, and give it all the resources it needs to do the job. In their first game against Côte d'Ivoire they played quite like France did yesterday, they just scored their goals earlier.

Completely agree about Argentina’s defence. It’s part of why they’re such a great team to watch - they seem to be doing everything well. But I would claim that France are a little flattered by that comparison. (And it is eminently possible that I’m a bit down on France as a result of my own personal baggage. The Arsenal connection has meant that I’ve followed them fairly closely over the last ten years, and their performances in Japan/Korea and (particularly) Portugal were so disappointing that I watched their games against Switzerland and South Korea this time round with an ever-growing feeling of, y’know, ‘Not again’.) I’d love to see them (re-)become something approaching the sum of their parts. But, again, I don’t think it’s happened thus far.

Hope this explains things a little better.
 
 
elene
12:27 / 28.06.06
Yes, thanks.

To some extent Serbia & Montenegro's dismal performance against Argentina (25 uninterrupted passes culminating in a goal) has left me doubting Argentina. They probably are a good deal better than the Germans, but I can't know that now until they play.

And of course I'm very biased too, though not against Argentina. I really want Portugal out - though that's got nothing to do with the fact that Deco broke the rules twice and got two legitimate yellow cards, astrojax - and I try not to even think about Brazil anymore.
 
 
Dxncxn
13:52 / 28.06.06
The nature of the goals Germany conceded against Costa Rica suggested that they were very vulnerable to a well-placed through ball, which will presumably not have escaped Riquelme’s attention. On the other hand, they have subsequently kept three clean sheets, so clearly there’s been some level of improvement, but I’ve found it difficult to judge exactly how much. The respective second round ties tip the balance somewhat in the hosts’ favour, you’d think, what with Argentina playing extra time and Germany having their game won inside the first thirty minutes.

It occurs to me that the other two teams that I’ve really loved watching - Spain and the Ivory Coast - both went out more or less as soon as they possibly could, so I guess I’m expecting the Germans to win. Not that that would be the worst thing in the world.

I really want Portugal out

I haven’t been overly enamoured with them, for the most part, but, if England play anything like they have done so far, I expect I’ll be hoping for a Portuguese victory.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:52 / 28.06.06
No more games till Friday...

Anybody else experiencing withdrawal syndrome?
 
 
astrojax69
00:32 / 29.06.06
o, dm, i'm glad i ain't the only one...


i think portugal will beat england. i think argentina will beat germany. i am pretty sure brasil will annihilate the french and the poor ukrainians can go home after italy waltz through.

so, portugal italy & argentina brasil semis - who'll run fourth??? [my answer: portugal, to brasil!]
 
  

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