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International Cricket - Winter 2005-6

 
  

Page: 123(4)5678

 
 
William Sack
11:19 / 13.12.05
does anyone else feel like i do now, that the australian dominance of the past few years has accelerated the rise of several other teams and cricket is become much more competetive and conjunctively much more skillful and professional all at once?

I think that there is certainly a greater degree of professionalism in the game in England - they train harder and smarter, the watch what they eat and drink, they study videos of the opposition and seek to target individual weaknesses. Gone are the days (as recently as the late 80s) when half the England team were 2 stone overweight.

I don't know how much of this is down to the success of the Aussies. To some extent, for sure, given that individuals and teams always look at the best to see what they are doing, and in some cases try to emulate them. England, for example, have followed the Australians in creating a Cricket Academy, which was until recently, I think, actually run by an Aussie, Rod Marsh.
 
 
William Sack
11:28 / 13.12.05
Just found this quote from a former Australian test batsman talking just before the Ashes series:

"Harmison and Flintoff have looked the part in the one-dayers, but on Test-match wickets I don't see England having enough firepower to take the 20 wickets.

SHUT UP, LEHMANN
 
 
Loomis
12:18 / 13.12.05
I think Lehmann's comments are a fair assessment. But then I would think that, given that I said the same thing ...

I still stand by that assessment. England played far better against Australia than they had against any team before. If they had performed like they did against South Africa only a few months before the ashes, we would have trounced them. And beating the Windies counts for nothing. Do you think that England's success could have been predicted in their performances leading up to the series?
 
 
William Sack
12:35 / 13.12.05
Loomis, I was chief Doom-monger myself and made an almost identical comment in the Ashes thread about England's ability to take 20 wickets. The last post was entirely engineered for me to say SHUT UP LEHMANN and jump on what appears to be Barbelith's new bandwagon. You have reminded me of why I buy all of my clothes from an agricultural supply centre - whenever I try to do anything fashionable I end up looking a dick.
 
 
Loomis
13:10 / 13.12.05
In that case, have a free SHUT UP LOOMIS on me.

Must still be sensitive after having to relive the ashes when watching the beginning of that sports personality of the year show the other night. Kept telling myself that it was all a bad dream.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:06 / 15.12.05
Oh lord, 3rd ODI at Karachi, England lose by 165 runs.

On the face of this, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if England lose the test series. And I *know* it's a very different game, but there's no confidence in the England side, and from the brief clips I've seen, very little interest.

Pakistan, on the other hand, have gone from strength to strength. In Kamran Akmal, they have a matchwinning batman. Add Afridi and Razzaq, and you have alot potential going into the next world cup.

Oh and WS, I think I can finally answer your 'England supporting' qu. I'm shackled to India, but can float when it comes to England, getting the glow of the Ashes but finding Pakistan's demolition job pretty enjoyable too. Not fair, is it?

As evidenced by my having no doubt about my jubilation over India's win in the second test. My 'I heart Sachin' t-shirt is on order. This in spite of Muralitharan's one-man wicket-taking exploits on Day 1.

India are looking more composed than they have in quite a while and I'm thinkig it'll be a win for them overall, possibly even 2-0. Tedulkar is *on fire* at the moment, and I'm not sure there's going to be much than SL can do about that. Oh, and not forgetting Kumble's 6-72 in the first innings.

Bring it on!
 
 
astrojax69
19:47 / 15.12.05
australia play south africa in perth today - could be an interesting match, the headfuk talk began a week or so back and everyone is fired up. their pace attack could give an inexperienced australian middle order a work over, but i think we will outclass them overall and win by a handful of wickets or near enough to a hundred runs. be in'tresting but...
 
 
Loomis
08:13 / 16.12.05
Aussies all out for 258. Saffas 38/0 at stumps. Very good start by the tourists, with Ntini having a great day. The aussies will really have to work to get back into this match. Good stuff.
 
 
William Sack
11:44 / 16.12.05
GGM, Pakistan are indeed looking quite a side at the moment. Kamran Akmal is on fire - 3 centuries in his last 4 knocks against England - and the rest of the batting line up are looking pretty good too. Shoaib Akhtar has also answered those who questioned his fitness and commitment, and I really can't see England getting a look-in in the final 2 one-dayers. On the subject of Akmal, he is just one of a glut of top class wicket-keeper batsmen at the moment. Gilchrist is still the guvnor, but India have Dhoni, SL have Sangakarra - quite an array of talent.

India are looking a decent side, and would be a great one if they had a world class fast bowler. In Dravid, Tendulkar and Sehwag they have the batsmen with the 1st, 2nd and 5th highest test averages of current players, and H Singh and Kumble are real matchwinners. I foresee a very, very difficult tour for England in the New Year. In fact, if they don't raise their game several notches they will get a hiding.

The Aussie/SA game looks interesting - living up to the pre-match sledge-hype. I think the middle order might need to be beefed up with Clarke soon.
 
 
Krug
20:05 / 16.12.05
India Pakistan series should be really something next month. India are looking formidable but like you pointed out Will it's the lack of a Shoaib Akhtar where Pakistan edge it out. Pathan's batting has been so far so good and might be better than this bowling. Kumble continues to be a matchwinning test bowler and I think his one day career is pretty much over. They have a deep batting line up to match Pakistan's and with Inzamam playing as well as he is India aren't a tougher batting lineup even with Sachin. Younis Khan doesn't seem to be performing but I suppose his brother just died and he might struggle for a while.

I've probably said this before but I'm a little disappointed at how England have crumbled in this series. Clearly there is no #2 side in the world right now.

While he may be old news now, I still believe Australia made a blunder by tossing out Damien Martyn out of the test squad. People like Symonds, Katich, Watson, Clarke, Hodge may be bright hopes but dont have the experience.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
13:01 / 17.12.05
the lack of a Shoaib Akhtar where Pakistan edge it out.

Plus ca change.... Why is it that Pakistan have produced *rafts* of world-class fast bowlers and we can't?

Looking forward to the test, though, if the Indian batsmen can keep their form up, could be very interesting...
 
 
astrojax69
21:52 / 17.12.05
perth test evenly poised, the tourists getting thirty something extra runs and now hayden is out and stumps last night had us five runs ahead, nine wickets in the rooms.

didn't see or even hear much of it unfortunately but warne took three, having been in need of one wicket to equal lillee's milestone of no. of test wickets in a calendar year by anyone ever. tick, one more to warney...

clarke will have to come back for the second test, won't he? and will gilchrist ever score another decent knock..?? how form fluctuates - six months ago you would have batted him anywhere in any side like even if we had to play the aliens to stop the hyper by-pass going through... now?
 
 
astrojax69
19:53 / 18.12.05
well, hodge and hussey have put on an unbeaten 126 for the fifth wicket after the captain made a half ton and the aussies are back in commend. 310/4 will likely set the tourists a mirage of a target. one nil to us. rekkun punter might declare near 400 if he has to. he'd want at least 350 lead, but i rekkun they'd struggle with a 250 chase.
 
 
Krug
04:56 / 19.12.05
I think the declaration came a little late but they were waiting for Hodge to get to 200 it seemed and Ponting just called them back leaving SA 491 to win. South Africa should try to save the match I think because they can't win this one.
 
 
Loomis
07:38 / 19.12.05
Clarke who?

Great work by Hodge and Hussey who are repaying the faith of the selectors. It was hanging onto players like Clarke for way too long that prevented these guys getting their much-deserved chance and I wouldn't think of bringing Clarke back in for a good while yet.

Phil Jaques has been in brilliant form for a long time now so I would play him while Langer is injured and leave the middle order alone. I can certainly take or leave the allrounder position, but Symonds does have bags of talent so you'd have to think he'll score big one of these days.
 
 
astrojax69
19:29 / 19.12.05
but clarke scored his own double first sheffield shield (o, ok, pura cup then... yeuch) match after being dropped. he is a lynchpin in the future of australian cricket, i rekkun. be every bit as good as border, ponting or boon. s'my opinion.

good points but, loomis, about phil jacques - he is a revelation in waiting - but i've never been so sure about golliwog andy. he is a freaky player and well suited to the ODI format, could be a superstar of 20/20, but i am not convinced of his resolve and capacity to defend, which is what a great test player must be able to do. he is a prime example of why i think the australian selectors were so right in delineating test from one day cricket in squad selection. look at michael bevan...

shane watson is more likely to become the all rounder we need. [doesn't jacques bowl a bit?]
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:34 / 19.12.05
er, who is golliwog andy and why is that an acceptable nickname?
 
 
astrojax69
02:47 / 20.12.05
andrew symonds - he looks like one!

prob'ly not a strictly pc name, but that's pro men's sport for ya...
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:32 / 20.12.05
ah, ok.

By which I actually mean does 'not strictly a pc name' mean that it's suddenly ok to reference golliwogs on Barbelith. Which, for the record, in case it ain't obvious, I don't think it ia. Hate speech is hate speech, no matter what the context. I find the idea that's it okay to use these terms because we're talking about a sport we love infuriating and rather depressing.

Personally, one of the things I love love love about discussing cricket and football on here is that I get to rave about sports that I'm barmy about in an environment that's profoundly different from that of the generic 'men's pro sports' one. (For eg, why I'm much happier talking about my nearly-beloved Leeds United here than on the LUFC message boards which are a scary place full of the bigotry and the hate. )

There's a wider point that I'm particularly interested wrt cricket about sporting cultures and bigotry/conservatism.

My main cricketing eg being Yorks CCC, but a wider thought about how cricket culture is riddled with/deeply infused by it's colonial/conservative roots and what it's doing to work with and move beyond that that See for example, on a happier note:


'I had tears in my eyes when I saw my team take the field.' In a country where cricket is renowned for inducing extraordinary emotions, Shahnaz Sohail, manager of the Pakistan women's cricket team, has more reason than most to feel passionate about the game. In September, she was in charge of the first women's team to play an international match on home soil.
 
 
Spaniel
10:22 / 21.12.05
It absolutely baffles me that anyone thinks it's okay to use hate speech on Barbelith. Astro, you've been here quite a while, and you haven't noticed that it's entirely unacceptable.

As is the term "pc".
 
 
Krug
20:39 / 21.12.05
England will take some heart by winning the final game in the tour but even with 3-2 this was a Pakistan side without Inzamam (who makes all the difference to be honest) and Shoaib. Pakistan can function without Shoaib and still be a good side but without Inzamam they're a decent side. It's not just his batting where he bails out Pakistan almost everytime the top order crumbles it's his captaincy which gels the unit into a solid formidable team. They bowled well under Younis Khan but seemed like the old Pakistan when they were chasing. It's a game they should've won but I do think their confidence over proving their superiority in both forms of the game this time around got the better of them. I want to think that there is life without Inzamam for the team but I think there might not be. There is life without Shoaib but he gives Pakistan no other bowler can offer. I'm very pleased with Kamran Akmal, Rana Naved, Mohammad Yousuf in this series. Younis Khan is going through a bad patch and will return to form sooner or later. Salman Butt may not fare well abroad and I don't think we've sorted out opening pair problem just yet. I still think Afridi needs to open the innings with Akmal to take full advantage of the power plays. He may be hit and miss but he seems to just take the game away completely from the opposition if he gets a fifty or sixty in. Completely demoralises the bowling attack by taking the run rate up to eight or nine. Rana should work on his batting and I'm convinced he can be reliable as a lower order batter.

The Australia/SA game was a surprise. I didn't think Australia could lose and Warne and co wouldn't be able to take ten wickets. Full marks to Rudolph and Kemp for saving the game for their team. Australia will have to work for their victories in this series and defeat is quite likely if they dont.

It's been a great year for cricket and the road to the world cup is going to be full of tough contests. Pakistan will be England next summer, India will be in Pakistan next month, Australia are defending their number #1 slot against SA, The champions trophy next fall and then we have the ashes next winter before the world cup.

GGM mate it could be worse if us colonised folk didn't have colonial roots. America could have imported its shite knockoff sports. Who knows if the Iraqis had really wanted to be "liberated" they'd be playing american "football" and baseball. But I know what you're saying.

Was listening to the bbc yesterday and there was report no racist chanting during the sa/aus game. I wondered two things. What racist slurs could white people use against other white people? Ntini I understand but Pollock, Kemp and the rest? But seriously why didnt they do something about it then? Condemning crowd behaviour seems to be a waste of time and just showboating your moral flab.

Is it just me or when I hear "THERES NO ROOM FOR RACISM IN SPORT" I feel that they're saying "It's all right after everyone's gone home so we dont want no trouble mister."

What do you all think of the claims made by asians that the illegal action thing is there to give the westerns the edge? I had this discussion on a less enlightened forum but the indians and paksitanis were just yelling racist and using racial slurs for white people instead of having a sensible debate whether such claims are warranted or not. The asians have unrefined rough talent and often lack the orthodoxy which the ICC gives them an edge. I'm not very well informed about the subject after being out of cricket for a few years but I hear Murli and Shoaib got into trouble because of it.
 
 
Loomis
08:23 / 22.12.05
Apparently the racist taunts at Perth were kaffir (derogatory term for a black South African) and kaffir-boetie (kaffir-lover) to the white players. Also the people saying it supposedly had SA accents, so I think the general view is that they were ex-pat Saffies. I think it's pretty grim behaviour. I'm all for sledging but I draw the line at racism, and I think it is probably even worse when it comes to SA because of their past and the struggles of SA sport to overcome it.

There is a bit of a love-hate between Aussies and Saffie sport teams (why do I feel like I say that about all teams we play?), and they traditionally play very hard and sledge away merrily but this comes from the fact that they repsect each other as opponents, but they are always good mates after the game. (case in point: when the Aussies don't sledge you and start talking about fair play, then they don't respect you. Look at the ashes, and look at the result!) And this view is generally held by the fans as well. But as I said, race is one thing that doesn't belong in sledging. As Ntini said: "You just look at the person and say … 'You can swear to me, you can tell me my mum is a so-and-so', but when it comes to those words, nobody can take it."

As for the draw, great work by SA to hold on. I think part of the problem has to lie with Ponting's captaincy. His only game plan is to bowl Warne all day. Not to mention the obvious fact that it's going to wear Warne out, on the last day of a test match a captain has to be innovative to tease out those wickets. And the WACA isn't even much of a turning wicket so Warne was always going to struggle there. Ponting really needed to mix it up more and unsettle the batsmen. But either way, it keeps the rest of the series alive.

I agree Krug that it's been a great year for cricket. It's a shame that England have been so rubbish lately as I want the ashes next year to be two teams at the top of their game, but it's great for Pakistan to be playing such solid cricket. You make a good point about Inzy, but that's happening with a lot of countries right now. A few teams have big names who will soon retire and a new era is beginning. England are lucky to have their best players still peaking, while greats like Inzy, Sachin, Lara, Warne, McGrath, are coming to the end of their era. Actually I have a feeling that SA could soon be the team to beat. Graeme Smith is hard as nails and the more he disciplines his side, the more they grit it out, they just might have the attitude to stay near the top of the tree. they need another quality bowler though.
 
 
Krug
23:33 / 26.12.05
That Hussey can bat can't he?

Shame on the selectors for waiting so long on his selection. I think Hodge and Hussey have cemented their places and one wonders where that leaves Michael Clarke.
 
 
Krug
23:36 / 26.12.05
And I forgot to add that once again Hussey carried the Aussies to a formidable total with the tail. I was certain that Nel and co would clean up the last two quick but it wasn't to be.

Can anyone tell me when Australia lost a test series at home? If SA can't do it who can?
 
 
Loomis
20:00 / 04.01.06
I'm really enjoying the third Aus/SA test, with two days to go. SA 90 odd in front with only one wicket down, are in an excellent position. The highest winning run chase at the SCG is 260-70 or something, so if they can get a lead of anything over 220 they'll be in a very comfortable position. In fact if they can simply bat most of day 4 then the match will be within their grasp. Having said that, Australia have far more spinning power so they could well knock the Saffies over cheaply and will have plenty of time to knock off the runs while SA don't have a frontline spinner to capitalise on a turning pitch. Very interesting.

And great to see Gilly back on song. He pulled out some cracking strokes, though was almost upstaged by MacGill hitting boundaries all over the shop.
 
 
Loomis
14:36 / 12.01.06
*tumbleweeds*

So ... anyone looking forward to the first test between India and Pakistan?

I'm not one for predictions really but I think there'll be some cracking performances on both sides and there are a few players to watch.
 
 
William Sack
09:28 / 13.01.06
I'm looking forward to this as well, albeit just catching the scores in the paper and online.

My initial thoughts about the series is that on paper India has the better batting side with 3 genuinely outstanding world class batsmen to Pakistan's one; that Pakistan have by far the better seam attack, and that India's spinners are marginally better. Fairly evenly balanced in other words, so my prediction would be for there to be a narrow home advantage to Pakistan, who will take the series by the slimmest of margins.

It seems Pakistan have made a great start and are 290ish for 2 towards the end of day 1 with a century for Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousef closing in on a ton.
 
 
William Sack
10:17 / 13.01.06
Wow, 328-2, and one of those wickets was a run-out. Cracking stuff from Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousef. The aim tomorrow, I guess, is to bat India out of the game with 500 plus and perhaps get Shoaib fired up for a quick burst for the last few overs of the day.
 
 
Loomis
19:07 / 14.01.06
Wow. What carnage. WHo needs Twenty20 with hitting like that in a test match. Having said that, I reckon there are plenty of runs still in that pitch and not much for the bowlers, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ends in a draw. India have made a solid start and if they can dig in on day three then they might be very hard to remove twice.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
23:46 / 15.01.06
gah

*bites nails nervously*

*ansaphone message*
I'm sorry, GGM is too stressed atm for comment and will return later
 
 
Krug
22:29 / 16.01.06
Fucking Lahore weather ruined this one. The PCB should know better and cricinfo says that the original venue was Karachi where it is clearer and warmer. Karachi winters are fogless, very mild and nearly fall like at times so I don't understand the reasoning behind holding the series in Punjab.

Fell asleep during the match last night and dreamed Shoaib had dismissed the top four with India still needing to save the followon. And that I had lunch with Rahul Dravid which is very strange and unexpected to see in a dream. Woke up to discover the impotence of the bowling. Sehwag came back into form just like Younis did in this one which is a good thing for both sides. If the pitches are as horrible as this one India has a distinct advantage.

Let's hope the weather doesn't ruin the series which promises to be the closest of the year.

In other news I didn't expect South Africa to hold their nerve in the one day game after losing three early wickets. I think SA let themselves down tremendously in the test series and it woudln't have been 2-0 if they had held their catches.
 
 
Loomis
07:42 / 17.01.06
Well Sehwag won't be catching Lara today. 254 off just 247 balls with 47 fours and 1 six. Not a bad effort!

Off for bad light again! How frustrating.
 
 
William Sack
10:52 / 17.01.06
It's Laxman I feel sorry for - sitting in the pavilion with his pads on watching 410 runs being plundered on the flattest track you'll ever see, and then coming in to face one ball.

I had a weird cricket dream the other night as well. Background: I have just joined a club and went for my first net on Sunday, having been fairly nervous as I have not played properly for several years. Anyway, in the dream I was trying out for the new side with another newcomer to the club, one Kevin Pietersen. In front of loads of people we both had to get our dicks out and have them measured. Needless to say, KP 'outscored' me comfortably. Anyone else had a cricket anxiety dream?
 
 
Loomis
11:38 / 17.01.06
Haven't had any cricket dreams lately, at least not while sleeping. Have had an ongoing waking dream by winning the ashes on International Cricket Captain 2005. Currently 3-0 up and almost scored 600 in the opening innings of the fourth match on an uneven wicket (obviously reverse swing doesn't bother computerised Hayden who scored 250). In the last match I told Bing to bowl it short and he hit the King of Spain in the chest so he had to retire hurt.

It eases my pain.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:42 / 17.01.06
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Thankyou, William, for sharing this with me at a difficult time.

HOW gutted must Younis Khan be feeling?

And entirely with you on the venue idiocy. Both the BCCI/PCB know what the conditions are like in Karachi/Punjab. Typical of India/Pakistan politicking around cricket, I'd say.

Lots of runs, drawn match. Knackered players after stop-start first test. What's the point when you could schedule away from the unsettled weather?

And they're off to Faisalabad now, where the conditions arne't likely to be much better. No outright results till Karachi looking likely...

With all that said, what a knock by Sehwag. 254 off 247 balls. Accordingly to cricinfo, the highest-ever Test score at over a run-a-ball

*waves flag, dances*
 
  

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