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All-Star Superman

 
  

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Spaniel
14:09 / 23.09.08
...And the specials.
 
 
Mario
14:49 / 23.09.08
Jimmy could be Hylas....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:09 / 23.09.08
Have a little think about what that might entail.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
16:14 / 23.09.08
Boyfriends Forever. Yes.

Relevant Shortpacked webcomic.

"You're...you're not still seeing that Jimmy fellow, are you?"

Oh, Superman and his cryptohomosexual boyfriends.

Meanwhile, Herakles is so yesterday. It's all about Prometheus today. Tomorrow, we'll be comparing Superman to JFK and Lex to Oswald.
 
 
TroyJ15
00:52 / 24.09.08
Loved it so much I wrote about it in my blog:

Years ago, when comics were still young and the industry generated so many avenues and possibilities, Superman rose from the ink and newsprint as a creature that personified his industry: An American original made relatable by the fact that he was soaked in the immigrant struggle (or at least the desire to overcome it all).
Superman, like all things mass-produced and consumed by an insatiable public, lost his way. A fact that was defined by cynical, changing times and well-intended yet misguided editorial decisions. Newer heroes overtook him. The type that late-Century readers could relate to. Superman became irrelevant (Me? I always thought DC should treat Superman like Disney does Mickey Mouse. Only break him out for special occasions).
Through the soul-selling magic of Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely, we have ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. A reminder of not just the Man of Tomorrow…but us as humanity.
Let's be honest, every person, place, or thing that has inspired people has been made fictional. Martin Luther King. Ghandi. John Lennon. Jesus. While evidence proves them to be real, to most observers they are bigger than life. Made surreal. Made fictional. So why wouldn't Superman join their ranks as a motivational figure? His impossible-feats can be compared to walking on water....on paper, of course.
Like all great stories, it's a simple yet emotional story. Technicolored with painstaking detail and depicting a Superman decaying from solar over-radiation. Ironically enough the sun, his power source, is killing him. Lex Luthor had a little something to do with it (naturally) but the Man of Steel's greatest challenge isn't megalomania, it's the guarantee of his earthly legacy. Have we learned anything from him?
Humble as always, even SuperMan doesn't know in the end. He’s too busy crossing off his list of final things to do.
The closing issue (#12) of the Eisner-stealing, ALL-STAR SUPERMAN arrived this week. WOOSH-ing anticipation with its cape. This is the book to beat for the foreseeable decade…if not more. (Hm. I like that. “ALL-STAR SUPERMAN: The Decade-Beater”). In a quiet way, It is the Fantastic Four #1 of the 1960s. It is the Giant-Size X-Men of the 1970s. It is the Watchmen of the 1980s. It is the Action Comics #1 of the 30s. A book that, to actual comic fans, has turned the industry in yet another direction (if only the world still weren't too cynical to notice it).
To understand ALL-STAR SUPERMAN is to understand the creators. Writer, Grant Morrision must’ve waited for this moment. Morrison, a walking, talking Sci-Fi/Fantasy himself, has been writing since he was 17 years old. This man with his ability to make you believe every word he writes has fortunately made his home in comics. Yes, he uses "magic" in his projects. I don't know if I believe in the stuff...but it works.
Frank Quitely is a bit more elusive (honestly, they both are). If you guessed, that's not his real name. Mr.-Play-on-Words, like Morrison, is also a Scot. His penmanship allows him to create Pop that talks, breathes, and swells. There's movement in the way Superman sits on gold clouds of issue #1's cover. When Clark Kent stumbles into the Daily Planet's main office. When Supes gives a non-verbal "F*ck you" to Hercules in an arm wrestling match.
Their collaborative efforts (NEW X-MEN, WE3, and now, ALL-STAR) are about to allow them to join the ranks of Superman: Bigger than life and fictionalized.
You can almost hear John Williams' horn section.
-www.TroyJ15.blogspot.com
 
 
huckleberry glove soup
02:59 / 24.09.08
Papers:

May I just say, Urrrr Durrrrr.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I'm going to crack that hardcover open tonight and give it another read through. It's been a few months.
 
 
This Sunday
04:06 / 24.09.08
I always thought DC should treat Superman like Disney does Mickey Mouse. Only break him out for special occasions

But that's not how they use him, is it? They niced him up (or lobotomized him), and have House of Mouse or some other show where he can play host air on the Disney Channel every season without fail. He's an infomercial personality.

DC, at least, still lets Superman have a little range of treatment. And once in a great while he can pick up a car again, for nostalgia's sake.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
04:58 / 24.09.08
He isn't Superman if there isn't some painfully obvious recall to Action #1's cover, is he? Though Parker Posey being nearby often helps.
 
 
Spaniel
08:28 / 24.09.08
(Papers, cheers for the link to the mini-comic. The two chaps chatting in the final panel are extraneous, and very unfunny. In fact the entire final panel might well be extraneous, but other than that v.good.)
 
 
TroyJ15
12:24 / 24.09.08
But that's not how they use him, is it? They niced him up (or lobotomized him), and have House of Mouse or some other show where he can play host air on the Disney Channel every season without fail. He's an infomercial personality.

Admittedly, I'm not too caught up on my Disney Channel. I was going more with the fact that I haven't seen Mickey in any major TV or Film release (to my memory) since WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT. I always see him next to the Disney logo or on display at the amusement parks but that's it. (wasn't there some short film in the last 10 years that he was featured in?)
 
 
TroyJ15
13:25 / 24.09.08
Oh, yeah...someone pointed out earlier that SuperMan is punching Lex Luthor in the face --- in spite of being stronger than him. I don't know if anyone mentioned this but Supes is dying/decaying. Which means, he's probably not THAT strong anymore (hence him resorting to a "Gravity Gun" to beat Lex).

I dunno, I prefer this to be honest. One thing that always bored me about SuperMan is he can't just mix it up with his arch-nemesis because he'd kill him. Morrison's decision to have them FIGHT FIGHT is actually more satisfactory than an eye-beam light show. I think.
 
 
Never or Now!
13:58 / 24.09.08
Oh yeah, with Nasthalthia standing there watching. ("You wouldn't believe how many people really hate him. All that goody-goody sentimental crap." "You just haven't seen him in a fight.")
 
 
TroyJ15
14:02 / 24.09.08
Ha! I forgot Lex said that earlier in the series. Yep. Very satisfying.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:12 / 24.09.08
Lex also talks about "Truth, justice, all the other things you can't touch," when he's giving Clark the tour of prison in #5, and that fed nicely into his encounter with Perry in Twelve.
 
 
TroyJ15
18:54 / 24.09.08
Great. I'm already reaching for the HC vol 1...I guess I won't get any work done forthe next hour or so.
 
 
This Sunday
02:03 / 25.09.08
Troy, that's kind of my point with Mickey Mouse, that he hasn't had a major release in quite some time, but there's a whole lot of small releases/appearances. There are at least three shows in the past ten years that turned out a lot of new MM shorts. There is nothing big and grand and special, that I can think of.

Supes is at least given a big splashy comic every so often, and he's used in things like JLA/Hitman at the same time as ASS, which is almost sort of brave for a corporate icon. Heck, ASS and The Goddammed Batman are published at the same time!

In an optimal world, yeah, the character would only have gigantic supergood stories, but I don't know that those have to be a small amount. Morrison's told many good Superman stories. I'm sure most of the people who've worked on Superman stories thought they were telling great ones, or at least good. Every run has its fans, et cetera.

I do think it was significant that Supes is way less than prime during the dust up with Luthor, who is re-primed physically, himself. Superman does the best he can, but sometimes that is just shooting the enemy and punching him around. Sometimes it's surrendering. Sometimes, sun surgery.

And, damn, I still love the all's right with the world vibe resonating through the end of this run. Better than Jesus, indeed.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:46 / 25.09.08
The last three episodes really are a trilogy, you know.
 
 
TroyJ15
11:52 / 26.09.08
Troy, that's kind of my point with Mickey Mouse, that he hasn't had a major release in quite some time, but there's a whole lot of small releases/appearances.

Actually my initial review only really allowed me to use the Mickey example in passing. I should've been more specific with the post after it:

I see it like this, Disney does use him sparingly and maybe not always wisely, but I think that's in equal parts to his irrelevance amongst other/newer Disney icons and someone at Disney being over-protective of the character. (there might be legal reasons too...always is with Disney.)

I wish DC was more selective about how they use SuperMan in that regard. Thats what I'm really getting at. Maybe he doesn't need 3 or 4 monthly books. Maybe he should only be in a JLA cartoon, All-Star SuperMan minis, and, I dunno, the occasional Alex Ross coffee-table number. You can sell plenty of toys and statues 'causehe's an icon and occasionally make a good movie but...that actually might hurt him more than help him too...in terms of relevance.

Admittedly, I'm annoyed with over-extending brands (no matter what industry) so my attitude is, generally, don't throw all of it at me all the time. I'd much rather wait for something good than have 79 options that I have to wade through to find the good stuff.

y'know...I was trying to counter your point but I ended, kinda, agreeing with you.
 
 
Good Stuff
11:46 / 21.10.08
Hello,

Just finished the series myself. It was beautiful.
Though I wasn't sure what the last labour was (I'm not clear on all the others either, but nevermind): I had assumed it was coming back to life, but now I guess it's fixing the sun.

Regarding the splash page of Superman in the heart of the Sun:
Some of you had ideas about this around machinery, but I've got a funny tickle in the back of my mind that it is based on a picture of a person (soldier?) holding a FLAG.
Of course in the picture, the pole goes down not up, but does this ring bells with anyone else?
 
 
This Sunday
11:57 / 21.10.08
Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima by Joe Rosenthal?

I can vaguely see it, but find it much more in empathy with some sort of socialist working-the-lever propoganda shot, a protypical version of which must exist, but escapes me (and others, apparently).

Truly, is a Superman for all seasons, this Kal El. All Supermen to all things, or something like that.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:47 / 21.10.08
He's super-dreamy, man. A super-dreamboat.

And I was rereading yesterday, oddly enough, and am still in utter-utter awe of what a character sensation our boy Zibarro is. On the one hand, I think bringing him over to the mainstream would increase the opportunity to fuck him up, but it seems so sad never to see him again. A bit like Nasthalthia's revamp, can you imagine the new Supergirl meeting her at school?

I am still writing a bigger thing about A*S, but it's taking me a while. There's just so much to say.
 
 
Automatic
09:35 / 24.10.08
FYI, Newsarama are doing a 10 part interview with GM over the next two weeks about ASS. It's a damn good interview too.

Newsarama Interview Part 1

Has a load of things that've made me smack my head and mutter 'of course'..

"NRAMA: For that matter, do the Twelve Labors matter at all? They seem so purposely ill–defined. They seem more like misdirection or a MacGuffin than anything that needs to be clearly delineated.

GM: They matter, of course, but the 12 Labors idea is there to show that, as with all myth, the systematic ordering of current events into stories, tales, or legends occurs after the fact.

I’m trying to suggest that only in the future will these particular 12 feats, out of all the others ever, be mythologized as 12 Labors. I suppose I was trying to say something about how people impose meaning upon events in retrospect, and that’s how myth is born. It’s hindsight that provides narrative, structure, meaning and significance to the simple unfolding of events. It’s the backward glance that adds all the capital letters to the list above.

Even Superman isn”t sure how many Labors he’s performed when we see him mulling it over in issue 10.
When you watched it happening, it seemed to be Superman just doing his thing. In the future it’s become THE 12 LABORS OF SUPERMAN!"
 
 
ZF!
08:42 / 04.11.08
From the 10th part of the A*S interview at Newarama, the answer to the image of Supes in the Sun;

What was the inspiration for the image of Superman in the sun at the end? (I confess this question comes as the result of much unsuccessful Googling)


I didn’t have any specific reference in mind - just that one we‘ve all sort of got in our heads. I drew the figure as a sketch, intended to be reminiscent of William Blake’s cosmic figures, Russian Constructivist Soviet Socialist Worker type posters, and Leonardo’s ‘Proportions of the Human Figure‘. The position of the legs hints at the Buddhist swastika, the clockwise sun symbol. It was to me, the essence of that working class superheroic ideal I mentioned, condensed into a final image of mythic Superman, - our eternal, internal, guiding, selfless, tireless, loving superstar. The daft All Star Superman title of the comic is literalised in this last picture. It’s the ‘fearful symmetry’ of the Enlightenment project - an image of genius, toil, and our need to make things, to fashion art and artefacts, as a form of superhuman, divine imitation.

It was Superman as this fusion of Renaissance/Enlightenment ideas about Man and Cosmos, an impossible union of Blake and Newton. A Pop Art ‘Vitruvian Man‘. The inspiration for the first letter of the new future alphabet!
 
 
Mario
09:31 / 04.11.08
I guess that's the power of symbols: The image resonated so well, we thought we'd seen it before.
 
 
Spaniel
10:24 / 04.11.08
Really enjoyed those interviews.

Never picked up on the literalised All Star angle. Brilliant bit of meta fun
 
 
Automatic
11:35 / 04.11.08
*ahem* While I don't like to toot my own horn too often, I plan to take this opportunity (to toot it),

http://barbelith.com/topic/22644/from/1295

"Automatic
00:59 / 06.07.07
OK guys, wild prediction time,

Towards the end of the run, Superman somehow defeats Solaris, who happens to be our sun, the victory darkens the Solar System. All the solar energy Superman's stored up erupts at once, and he becomes the new sun.

Thus, literally becoming All Star Superman."
 
 
Spaniel
14:09 / 04.11.08
Well tooted, sir
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:37 / 04.11.08
I mean, you were wrong in almost all respects, but still, well done.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:54 / 05.11.08
LOL!

But, yeah, he did sort of become the Sun.
 
 
Automatic
08:09 / 05.11.08
Well, apart from Solaris being our sun, I think I was pretty accurate. You see, me and Grant, we've got a deep connection thing going on - our minds are as one on the secret subconscious MinDternet.

Wanna know the ending of Seaguy 2?

Three words. Giant Talking Snake.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:01 / 05.11.08
Well fuck, there's no point in me drawing it now. Way to spoil!
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:50 / 05.11.08
Don't make me make a naked swingball reference, Automatic.

Cam, you're just going to have to draw two giant talking snakes, being ridden by a porcupine.

I liked Morrison's comments in the linked interviews -- part nine, I think -- about Superman mytho-positioning and how calling him a Christ figure was missing the point. Sci-Fi Pagan Messiah. His comments on Returns fed into that, and I hadn't really thought about it having a heavy Catholic vibe (more a generalized Christian vibe) before.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:29 / 05.11.08
I think the idea I liked the most, in true geek fashion, was Krypton being the source of all superheroes' sartorial choices.
 
 
vajramukti
02:42 / 03.12.08
I just recently got turned onto the whole leo quintum-as-lex luthor reading, and I'm simply stunned.

I'm not sure how much this has been done here at barbelith. I can't recall seeing it too seriously considered, but I'll concede not going back over all 55 pages to check. I thought I'd outline what's in the books on re-reading them. I think taken together it rises beyond interpretation to a genuine intent on GM's part. it's as clear as it can be without someone on the page simply saying it.

issue by issue:

#1- there are a couple main points here: first we're told that lex luthor had fooled everyone into thinking he'd reformed, and only the daily planet didn't believe it. 'luthor lied' is the story of the century according to perry white. why does this matter? well if lex reforms for real at the end of ASS, there's really no chance anyone will believe him anymore and he knows it. all the more reason to becomes soomeone else, and live his life over.

secondly, and this is the one that did it for me, is where lex is remote operating his humanoid suicide bomb, and time delaying his words to the solar ship. general lane walks in and says ' lex? are you talking to yourself again?" ...and he is! on the facing page, the same words lex spoke come again, but it turns out they are directed at leo quintum!

that's what they call a hint. this is the ONLY point in the whole series where these characters interact in any way whatsoever.

I might as well mention this as well, but we get a full face shot of leo in issue one, and if you take away the goggles and the hair, it's basically lex. the fact he never appears without the goggles must be intentional. it's a brilliant play on the whole superman disguise schtick.

we learn that leo resurrected the DNA project, with the express purpose of building a new race of superhumans 'in case anything happens to superman' ( paraphrase ). why would he do that, and why would he think that?

there's a bunch of allusions to his true origin as well: 'I'm trying to escape from a doomed world...the past' 'we're building outposts of tomorrow, in the here and now.' he's a time traveller trying to escape from his past. duh.

on the strength of this issue alone, you could make a solid case.

#'s 2-3 -nothing direct or conclusive here.

#4 - there's probably something you could say about why leo trusts his whole project to jimmy olsen, but I'm not sure if it's relevant.

#5- we get a clear picture of who lex is and why he's fixated on superman. we see his better qualities ( that he shares with leo quintum BTW) and how they are all warped and misdirected by his hatred of superman. we also see how passionately clark believes that he and lex could be friends, that his potential is wasted, that his life is being thrown away for no reason. we see lex flounder slightly in the face of it. "I'm a born dictator!" smacks of rationalisation. he and superman could never be friends, but only becuase of how lex pictures himself.

#6- is important but only for context reasons. you might say having lex reform and come back in time to do his life over is a stretch, but here we have a young superman interacting with his future self (unknowingly), and along with samson, the three members of the superman squad, and the various messages from the future to the past, you can safely say that implied time travel is fair game. there's certainly enough of it going on.

#7-8- not much. in 8 we see that leo is trying to cure superman of solar poisoning, but failing. at one point leo says: "we hardly dared imagine what we'd do without him" which is key to understanding why he reforms after the series ends.

#9- nuthin I can see.

#10- big time.

at 4:30 superman entrusts his dna to leo quintum, despite leo cautioning that he 'could be the devil himself'. but superman reiterates his faith in leo's character. it's clear superman knows who he really is. why wouldn't he?

at 5:15 superman challenges luthor to reform, to prove what he can do if superman isn't around. he knows there is good in luthor and says so. at this point, lex spits in his face. this exchange makes even more sense in light of what superman presumably knows. not making it explicit only makes superman seem more decent and idealistic.

in between these two, at 4:55 we have the strange case of the 'mechano-man'. some deranged senior citizen who is tearing up the ground looking for a time capsule that ends up being from the 24th century, and we are also told is "on a wild goose chase for luthor". who is this guy? I think he's another future version of lex. a demented feeble lunatic full of bitterness and hate, reduced to a punchline by his resentment towrds superman, come back in time to renew his grudge. what would he know about 24th century time capsules unless that's where he's from?

so we have three possible visions of luthor here: his misguided present, his 'doomed' future/past, and his reformed second life.

#11-12- cinches it up soundly. luthor's rampage here makes his chances of yet another chance in this era nonexistant.

-his hideout has a bust of einstein which sports a familiar looking hairdo. why wouldn't lex want einstein hair?

-we have a referrence to solaris having reformed ( in the 24th century, again ), so it's not inconceivable that luthor does as well, at some earlier point. just more context.

-when lex appears in his new outfit, he is wearing not just an identical jacket to leo's, ( with different colors ), but he also sports an identical pair of bubble shades, which are otherwise pointless. ( notice how quitely draws them, but lex never actually wears them over his eyes. another strong hint.)

-we see the artificial super-senses gradualy overtake lex until he breaks down. he is overwhelmed by love, clarity and understanding, but still can't get beyond his hatred of superman, and has to be beaten down. he's had his moment of insight, but won't realise the full error of his ways until superman is gone.

-we are told ( by leo!) that after superman vanishes into the sun, lex finds 'closure' amidst renewed calls for his execution, and how small and faded he seemed after getting his wish. who would know better than the man himself, looking from outside?

I couldn't figure out why we end the series with leo quintum on the last page, of all people, until I realised that it encapsulates the whole theme and point of the series. superman's legacy; his powers in the hands of a redeemed humanity, symbolised by a redeemed lex luthor. the ultimate achievement of the man of steel: he actually rescues humanity from it's own wasted potential.

this reading elevates what was already a work of monumental unity and beauty to an almost flawless level of perfection. I really cannot think of anything else comparable to it's structural harmony and compelling thematic unity in the comics medium. certainly not in the superhero genre, besides the obvious benchmarks of course. But I think ASS reaches beyond even DKR or Watchmen by quite a bit. It's about as close to flawless as we are likely to see in some time, and this easter egg opens up an incredible degree of meaning in the story, at least for me.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
03:56 / 03.12.08
I can certainly some interest in such a reading, but I don't really take Leo that way. He represents the reverse-Luthor for me, the bizarro-Luthor implied by the Plague/Invasion (after a fashion), he's a perfect example of why Superman's presence might be beneficial, he's a perfect example of Superman having faith in people. He's who Jimmy Olsen will grow up to be and who Luthor should have been.

We've discussed the idea up-thread that readers were and are uncomfortable with him because he's a positive mad scientist figure, which is an archetype very much disregarded by pop culture in favour of the evil variety. We're bred to see scientists as probably being Luthors, but his point is that they can also be Quintums.
 
  

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