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Bush, that sick fuck...

 
  

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Rage
01:45 / 08.09.05
Why does Bush punch old people?
 
 
Quantum
08:42 / 08.09.05
'I've coined new words..' where/when he said that? Ibis
Radio-Television Correspondents Association Dinner, Washington DC March 29th 2001.

I don't know, why does Bush punch old people? (hope the punchline is good)
 
 
Smoothly
08:46 / 08.09.05
Is he in a Rage?
 
 
Rage
09:35 / 08.09.05
Why does Bush kick old people?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:37 / 08.09.05
I dunno. Same reason I do, I'd guess.

This thread was a lot of fun.
 
 
alas
00:07 / 09.09.05
It was! It was! Come back Erisian! Let us kick you again, please????

Actually, what I find odd about Erisian's version of libertarianism is that it seems oblivious to the idea that Libertarianism gets its fundamental philosophical basis from the ideas that inspired, e.g., the US Declaration of Independence (i.e., ever heard of the inalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" for all individuals as kind of, well, the inspiration for the Revolution?) and the Bill of Rights, esp. Amendment 1 to the US Constitution which says that Congress is forbidden from making any laws that establish religion. Sound vaguely familiar?

What is state-sanctioned and state-financed heterosexual-only marriage based on except religion?

Erisian oddly claims a libertarian basis to argue that marriage should remain between men and women ONLY because religious people want it that way; they constitute a majority, and use their majoritarian status to demand that the government enforce the structure. There's no other basis for it. It is a pretty clear case, to me, of an establishment of religion. That's EXACTLY the kind of use of government force that libertarian philosophy opposes: it virtually DEFINES libertarianism. I've never met such a bizarre "libertarian."

{Truth in advertising: Some of my worst dates were with libertarians! Selfish in philosophy, selfish in bed. Bleh.}
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:13 / 09.09.05
Oh, don't get me started on librarians. Always with their "Shhh!" and "No running!" and "This is not a cafe!" What makes them so special, eh?

Mind you, the chicks are hot.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:21 / 09.09.05
I got pretty hot'n'heavy with a laburnum once. Then the park-keeper called the cops.
 
 
Triplets
00:22 / 09.09.05
Book sex is the best sex.
 
 
Brigade du jour
03:38 / 09.09.05
Tell me about it. Sigh ...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:25 / 09.09.05
< glares at Randy >
 
 
sleazenation
06:48 / 09.09.05
Perhaps a Libertarianism for beginners thread might be illuminating?
 
 
grant
12:57 / 09.09.05
Oddly, I hit wikipedia first thing this morning, and the "featured article" on their front page was Anarcho-capitalism.

So, yeah, a Libertarianism for beginners page seems like a good idea.
 
 
daynah
13:00 / 09.09.05
Yuumm... libertarianism. The game of... "Which will make me pull out less of my hair this next four years... republican or democrat?"
 
 
erisian
20:32 / 09.09.05
It was! It was! Come back Erisian! Let us kick you again, please????

Sure, I'll give it one more try. Here's what clarity two days of thought produced, as opposed to trying to keep up with however many other people I had tearing into me:

I believe in liberty as the basis of pretty much everything else I believe. Everyone should (moral should) be able to do whatever they want; you should defend your own liberty, and you should not try to limit other peoples liberties because inevitably it will lead to someone doing the same to you.

With that as the most basic principle I made decisions by, TRY to look at it from my view:

There are people in the world saying that marriage is a sacred institution and that, for whatever reason, it should not be extended to same sex couples.

There are also people in the world saying that same sex couples deserve every right opposing sex couples have and that they should be allowed to marry.

Both of these groups are telling the other group that they have to do what the other says. I personally think that any time this takes place, as an act of anything other than advice, you are in the wrong. In other words, if I tell my friend I think it'd be a bad idea for him to take a job in another state, that isn't immoral, but if I tried to physically prevent him from doing it, or tried to emotionally maniuplate him into not doing so, it would be wrong.

There are two groups of people with almost perpindicularly divergent. The group I agree with is the group of people who hold forth that being homosexual does not make you immoral, or any different from anyone else. However, even more strongly than I believe that do I believe that everyone has the right to have whatever stupid-ass, wrong-headed opinion they want to have. No belief can be wrong; that's what makes them fucking beliefs.

There is room in the world for everyone to live any way they want. Maybe in the future the world will be a place where everyone thinks the way the group in favour of homosexuals being allowed to marry; maybe the future will be full of people who think the way I do. That doesn't really matter; in the present, according to my belief system, the most moral way to solve this dispute is to LEAVE THE PEOPLE WHO WON'T LET YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT ALONE!

I might disagree with anyone who says that being homosexual makes you evil, or wrong, but that doesn't matter. They can go on believing it till the day I die. If they act on that belief in a violent way, I'll take that case by case. But the fact remains: anyone can hold any belief that want to and it's not anyone elses right to tell them they have to think a different way, or that they have to act a different way.

Look at it this way: You can tell me I am wrong until the cows come home, but logically that means I can just as well tell you all that YOU are wrong. When I see two groups of people saying each of the other groups is wrong, all I can think of is: why are you wasting time arguing about this? If it's such a big deal to you, why don't you just go live your life the way you want to live it?

In the past four years, I have had 4 different jobs and lived in 3 different states. I live comfortably enough, and am usually happy. Don't tell me it is expensive or hard to move; it's NOT that expensive and it's NOT that hard, and you can get a job almost anywhere.

Now, to apply my philosophy to another example: Bush and Kerry are both the same unwitting villains. They are perpetuating the exact same system with mild, aesthetic differences. The system they perpetuate is the one that says that everyone between Canada, Mexico, the Atlantic and Pacific has to play by the same rules. WE DON'T. Think about how ridiculous a notion that is; what justification is there for it? People all over the country have vastly different temperments and needs and should be encouraged to live DIFFERENTLY so that if you aren't happy where you are you can go somewhere else!

I am not selfish. I don't give a shit about people I don't know, I don't give a flying fuck about lots of causes and I hope trying to describe my most basic of tenants helps to explain why. I am giving to my friends basically without limit; I try my best to provide any support my friends need because... what's the point of having friends if you aren't going to do that for them?

I find it insane to worry about the state of affairs of people you don't know. Leave them alone, or go find out what they really need, but dear god don't protest for them!

There, whatever, have fun kicking some more. I would like to conclude by saying one thing; Ganesh, you started out by posting in a manner that made me think you were reading what I wrote and I think I said something that offended you and made you not want to do that anymore, yet you continued. Whatever it was I said that you took personally, I would like to say that I don't know you and can't possibly have been judging you in saying whatever it is. Sorry.
 
 
Mistoffelees
21:41 / 09.09.05
 
 
Aertho
22:08 / 09.09.05
Jameson or Bush?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:14 / 09.09.05
I'm sorry, I just don't understand why there's no tick beside Voldemort.

I find it insane to worry about the state of affairs of people you don't know. Leave them alone, or go find out what they really need, but dear god don't protest for them!

Jesus Christ, go and read some history books. One hundred years ago British women couldn't vote, a short time before that they couldn't own land and they brought it to the forefront of politics by protesting. There was a time when slavery was legal, when a black person couldn't sit in certain sections on an American bus, when they were beaten by men in white robes. Should white people have turned around and ignored Martin Luther King's call to protest? Because that's what you're suggesting would be the right action.

I want you to look at these pictures and tell me you would not have supported this cause. Tell me it would not have been your cause. Tell me this wasn't important. Tell me it would not have mattered to you that so many people were treated so badly. Tell me you would not have helped to put pressure on the government. Tell me that the segregation would not have effected you because you were a white man. Look at picture 22, look at the crowd and look at this-



It's a crowd shot during MLK's I have a dream speech. Are you telling me that all of those people were wrong to go there, that you wouldn't have been worried about the state of affairs of all of those people you didn't know?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:28 / 09.09.05
How does "not giving a shit about people you don't know" NOT count as selfish? I don't understand- "I'll look after myself and those close to me" is a fairly selfish attitude, imho... even without the implication that you'd expect those you know to do the same, therefore their well-being is in your best interest...

Do you honestly, never EVER feel any sort of duty or responsibility towards your fellow human beings? REALLY?

And as far as "anyone can get a job"... are you sure about that?

And I think recent events in the US have shown that moving CAN be difficult for those without the wherewithal to do so... even at the risk of their own lives.
 
 
Smoothly
23:31 / 09.09.05
No belief can be wrong; that's what makes them fucking beliefs.

I believe that your brain is made out of rice. Is there no way that belief can be wrong?

I'm really trying to see how this might all make sense to you. At times it seems like you're just arguing for a kind of moral relativism, but then things like if I tell my friend I think it'd be a bad idea for him to take a job in another state, that isn't immoral, but if I tried to physically prevent him from doing it, or tried to emotionally maniuplate him into not doing so, it would be wrong rule that out.
Then I think you're claiming that it's just impossible to persuade people to change their minds about things, but again, I tell my friend I think it'd be a bad idea..., so scratch that.

As others have said, you're certainly not arguing any recognisable Libertarian position.

I am not selfish. I don't give a shit about people I don't know

Can you not see why it's hard to make sense of what you're saying?

I am giving to my friends basically without limit; I try my best to provide any support my friends need because... what's the point of having friends if you aren't going to do that for them?

Are you sure you don't mean, ...if they arent going to do that for you? Can you see why people aren't completely convinced by the not-selfish thing?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
23:39 / 09.09.05
Guys, he's just a stupid worthless piece of shit! Learn to spot them early and from then on give them the respect they deserve.
 
 
Smoothly
23:48 / 09.09.05
You not convinced of the possibility of changing people's minds either, Petey?
 
 
erisian
23:53 / 09.09.05
Hmmm, let me see, how does not caring about people I don't know not count as selfish... well, how about because being selfish means you ONLY care about yourself? Wow, what a fucking deductive feat THAT took!

At this point I'm pretty much convinced that the reason you guys are not getting my viewpoint is because you're putting characteristics on me that I don't have. I only care about my friends because they will help me? Oh, shit, I didn't know that! I better go tell them, cuz some random people on the internet totally know me!

Nina, when's the last time you let someone crash with you for a week and slept on the floor so they could have the bed? When's the last time you gave someone a hundred bucks and didn't really give a shit when they paid you back? When's the last time you skipped a dinner to bum a friend some food money because you knew you got paid the next morning anyhow? Don't lecture me because I am not willing to hop aboard some fucking cause. Marriage is a load of shit, and I am sorry that homosexuals don't get to do it, but that's the way life is right now. Good luck! If you ever need a sympathetic ear or a place to crash because you're hiding from the SCARY NEOCON STRIKE TEAMS look me up, but I'm not going to vote for someone I don't fucking believe in just because it will somehow put me in your moral majority.

To the day I day I will live the way I think is right, and I know that the right way for me to live is by helping the people that I KNOW, whenever I can, and not by participating in big scary global issues. The reason we have global problems is because people DON'T spend enough time focusing on their lives.

And would you people take the time to actually read what I write and stop fucking misquoting me? I didn't say "anyone can get a job" I said 'it's NOT that expensive (to move) and it's NOT that hard, and you can get a job almost anywhere.' As a 22 year old who shaves every 3 days, has a lip ring and hair down to his shoulders, I'm gonna say that the fact that I have been able to get a job everywhere I've lived is indicative of the fact that it's NOT HARD if you TRY!

Seriously, is this some sort of hazing or something?

I am saying that any time two groups of people disagree, it is better to seperate than to engage in ANY SORT OF CONFLICT! In what way is that selfish? OH MY GOD! He is saying people shouldn't argue or fight! Oooooooh! Before any of you point out how hypocritical it is for me to continue trying to explain myself, then, lemme finish by saying- don't waste your breath! I'm done. I WAS hoping we could just have a fun chat here, but apparently I am too much of a selfish asshole for some of you to afford me things like a modicum of decency, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised, since this IS the internet. Bye, thread!

p.s. %enjoy the exclamation points.%
 
 
Smoothly
00:01 / 10.09.05
Don't go, Erisian. Some of us are genuinely interested.

I'm really keen to understand where you're coming from. You could answer one question that might help: Why do you care about your friends?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
00:02 / 10.09.05
Goodbye! I hope this means you're leaving the entire board, you entirely pointless cretin!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:03 / 10.09.05
And again with Smoothly's question, Fly...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
00:04 / 10.09.05
If the BNP came round for tea, would you serve them your best china while you were having a civilised conversation with them, or just use the normal stuff?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:08 / 10.09.05
They'd probably have to take it in turns... I only have a couple of mugs.
 
 
fuckbaked
00:35 / 10.09.05
Hey Erisian. I have four questions for you:

1. Do you make minimum wage?
2. Are there other people who depend upon you for a significant amount of financial or practical support (ex. do you have children, or are you caring for elderly parents or disabled siblings)?
3. Are you trying to pay for your own education or someone else's?
4. Are you underage?

I'd be willing to bet ($5 if anyone's interested in betting) that your answer to all these questions is no. You may think it's cheap and easy for anyone who wants to to move to another country, but you're dangerously unaware of what reality is like for people who are poorer than you. If you tell me what state you live in, I'd be happy to calculate how much money you would be making if you had a minimum wage job, so that you can imagine trying to support a couple of kids on that wage. I think you'll find that your freedom to move to the Netherlands (or some other country. pick one.) at will, should the government decide to make laws that you don't like, would be severely impeded.

I shouldn't even be wasting my time trying to convince someone who has stated that they don't care about anyone that they don't know (hey Erisian, I don't know your mom. does that mean it's ok for me to kill her so that I can take her oil, or her money, or whatever the fuck else I feel like taking?) of anything.

"The reason we have global problems is because people DON'T spend enough time focusing on their lives."

no, dude, the reason we have global problems is because the people who have the most power to help others, such as bush (he has the power to do so much good! yet he doesn't) would rather oppress them for their (by their I mean Bush's, etc) own benefit.

" is this some sort of hazing or something?"

no, dude, this is Barbelith, where people expect you to give a coherent argument if you're going to try to convince someone of something, and where they expect you (incorrectly, obviously) to actually give a shit about someone other than yourself. I didn't go through what you're going through when I arrived here.

"when's the last time you let someone crash with you for a week and slept on the floor so they could have the bed?"

I'm not Nina....but I'll say last week. And despite the fact that I have modest living circumstances, I've put up a listing on hurricanehousing.org to invite someone who's lost their housing because of the Katrina disaster to come and crash at my house for 6 months. I wouldn't have mentioned this, but, dude, you asked, and do you really think that you're going to outdo everyone here on niceness by letting a friend crash at your house for a week?

"When's the last time you skipped a dinner to bum a friend some food money because you knew you got paid the next morning anyhow?"

Right now I have $10 in my pocket that needs to last me until my paycheck comes. I'm expecting it to come very soon, but if the mail is slow....well, you know how it goes. Last night I went out and bought a bunch of bandages and stuff for a homeless friend who has an infection on his shoulder. If I run out of money before the check comes...well, there's a church where I can get food. As selfish as I generally think of myself as being, I can't turn my back on people who genuinely need my help. I wish there was more I oould do.
 
 
grant
00:50 / 10.09.05
I really hate joining in on these dogpiles because I don't think they're very productive, but I read this line:

There is room in the world for everyone to live any way they want.

And I have to say...

Harold Shipman.

He had very definite ideas of how he wanted to live, and no, there's not really room for him.

He's one end of a spectrum, you see. The extreme case that illustrates the problem with libertarianism -- to a certain degree, desires interfere with other desires. That's the function of government -- to mediate between my desire to kill and everyone else's desire to stay alive. It's the social contract.

In general, I'm more libertarian than quite a few of my friends, but I kind of like having environmental regulations and zoning codes around. Because those industrial freaks are trying to kill me.
 
 
Mazarine
00:52 / 10.09.05
And that river keeps on flowing.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:03 / 10.09.05
Firstly no one's ever asked to crash at my place for more then a night but I can think of people I would have been willing to give up my bed for... my partner might not be too happy about having someone else in the bed with him though. Also I don't have £100 and everyone I know earns more than me so I don't think I'm going to be the person asked for dinner money.

Don't lecture me because I am not willing to hop aboard some fucking cause

I wasn't lecturing you, I was responding to you and I asked you a question and I certainly haven't told you to vote for anyone. Have you been reading my posts? Do I even need to ask that question? You're obviously too carried away to actually distinguish between individuals anymore. Apparently all of our criticisms of you are magically the same.

I know that the right way for me to live is by helping the people that I KNOW, whenever I can, and not by participating in big scary global issues

Because doing one necessarily means you can't do the other? I'm sorry, I don't understand why these two things rule each other out.

I think that answers all of my questions about you Erisian. Despite your lip ring I really think you're quite low down on the list of people I would want to hide with if the neo-cons came after me, after all when they finally found me you wouldn't do a thing to try and help because you don't know me.
 
 
Brigade du jour
07:18 / 10.09.05
Hey, I've just cracked it!

We'll introduce Erisian to everyone in the world. Ok, it'll take a long time, but he's only 22. That way, he'll be able to satisfy his moral obligations as a decent human being without compromising his political views.

You can all pat me on the back later, I'm going to bed now. G'night!
 
 
Rage
07:55 / 10.09.05
Why is someone who calls themselves Erisian so serious about their beliefs to begin with? Are they subverting themselves or something?
 
 
Quantum
08:58 / 10.09.05
To the day I day I will live the way I think is right

You go gurlfreind! SeeyaBye.
 
  

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