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Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:08 / 08.05.07
I finished the series last night after missing many weeks.

I thought the ending was handled fairly well. I like that there were 52 identical worlds until a reality eating monster started fucking with them. I liked Booster helping save the whole mess and not being able to tell anyone (reminds me of Fry in Futurama whenever he fights the Big Brains).

I also read WWIII, which seemed wholly unnecessary. I just don't get why they needed 4 issues of carnage by a super hero to lay on some ham fisted message about human nature. I suppose I am just a chump and really thought DC was using 52 to get away from the over the top violence of IC and 8C. I did, however, like the idea of Marvel not being able to steal Adam's powers, but deactivating them and changing the word to something 'he will never guess' (at least until we need another world spanning murder-thon to thin out the cast).

Is the Buddy/Kori story ongoing anywhere? I also felt that in the current JLA series the reasoning for putting Vixen on the team was because they couldn't get Animal Man looks stupid in retrospect. The worlds greatest detective seems to have not checked at Buddy's house (unless, as is hinted by the Yellow Aliens buddy gets home a month in the future, but if that is the case publishing it in Week 50 makes no sense).

I am unsure how Batwoman survived, but I can get behind it because at least they didn't kill her in an ultra gruesome way. Renee as The Question could be cool, she should show up in Birds of Prey soon I imagine.

Lobo realizing he can kill the Fish Pope with a prototype Green Lantern device (ah throwaway lines for future developments, I love you so) was interesting and bizarre. I think the novelty of Lobo's ultra violence is running thin in the new era of fists through chests though. I picture him showing up on Earth talking about how bad ass he is and then a little kid asking him if he is more hard core then they guy who rips people in half on tv.

I am still wondering what Booster did with all the equipment he swiped that we didn't see in the finally. I wonder if it will come back in the next event, or in a solo book maybe. After reading the finally all of his "Nope, this isn't the right time" stuff didn't feel like it fit into the narrative. In 52 he knew exactly where he was going to get the scarab, and didn't need any other stuff. He did go back and swipe the scarab from Ted, right? I figured that was the power source he was after. If that is the case how did it get to the current Blue Beetle?

I liked the Ralph and Sue ending a lot. The build up dialog about the kids all drawing the same thing sounded like Joss Whedon dialog, and until the end of that bit I really didn't know how it would fit in. Good stuff.

The Steel storyline ended kind of dull, which is really all I could expect since it was pretty dull from the start. The left over Everyman heroes (Infinity Inc right?) running away seemed apt. I am curious where that might lead, whether they will fade into obscurity or take a shot at redemption etc..

I'm glad Strange got his eyes back, that made me smile.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
20:04 / 08.05.07
I was more than a little confused by the endings for Buddy and Kory, since it had been heavily hinted that something awful had happened to both of them in JLA and Titans - I wonder if they were slated to die and someone had a change of heart. If so then that's a very good thing indeed.

The ghost detectives stuff gave me a big happy, especially as I totally wasn't expecting it. I'm somehow not surprised at all that Morrison and Waid were working together in getting that ending for Ralph and Sue. Definitely my favourite moment of the series, I think. The pir need to have decent mini coming out of this asap as far as I'm concerned.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:46 / 09.05.07
Well, thought it was okay, but … the thing is, doesn’t the return or the multiverse make it harder for new readers to come on board? Unless DC’s going to publish a cheap or free primer telling us which Earth is inhabited by which characters etc, and what its characteristics are, it’s going to make it an uphill struggle for new readers to figure out what’s going on, surely?

I have a horrible feeling that the return of alternate earths in this way isn’t really a good thing in terms of trying to expand the readership of comics, and is more about getting the hooks even more deeply into the hearts (and wallets) of existing readers. Hmph.

Still, there was some fun stuff – the Animal Man bits, the (almost) all-Elongated Man issue – and I have to doff my cap to DC for getting it out on time. Wasn’t entirely convinced they would.

Anyone know why Kristan Morrison gets a thanks in the editorial at the back of the final issue? Is that Didio’s way of apologising for monopolising her husband’s time or something?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:23 / 09.05.07
Let's not go there, eh?

I think the thing about the fifty-two is that everyone still exists on Earth - New Earth was unchanged by the Mr. Mind stuff (that is, it remained the undefined set of new continuities it was left as after Infinite Crisis). So, if you want to write a Renee Montoya/Jaime Reyes story, you can do that on New Earth. If you want to do Ted Kord/Vic Sage, you can use Earth-C, or Earth-3, or whatever it's called now. So, it provides a degree of opportunity for the specialty market, but as a big reveal it does seem a bit limp. There's a multiverse now, which is nice, but there only _wasn't_ a multiverse for a year or so.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
23:57 / 09.05.07
There's a multiverse now, which is nice, but there only _wasn't_ a multiverse for a year or so.

Haus, I'm not sure I catch your meanning. There hasn't been a multiverse since the original crisis. Surely more than a year in comic book time has passed in the last two decades?
 
 
Tom Coates
07:16 / 10.05.07
I think the idea that we'll be able to get lots more out of continuity action on the other worlds is precisely what worries me and makes me think that they're mishandling the multiverse stuff. It really seems to me that the only way to do those things in an effective way without each universe being a pale and confusing copy of New Earth really is to make them genuinely different - ie. Elseworldy. So Steampunk Earth is okay, and Earth 3 is okay, but an earth with just Charlton comics is sort of lame, given that most of them are also on our world. I mean it's quite an intelligent way to handle the way that companies are acquired - you buy a new universe and it's still in continuity as with Wildstorm - but it seems like a disaster to have JSA on two different worlds pretty much identical to one another.
 
 
The Falcon
08:43 / 10.05.07
There hasn't been a multiverse since the original crisis. Surely more than a year in comic book time has passed in the last two decades?

Aye, but there was, briefly, at the end of 8C a multiverse, which was then compressed into this New Earth - so the point of 52 has been that... well, not completely.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:10 / 10.05.07
DaveBCooper Well, thought it was okay, but … the thing is, doesn’t the return or the multiverse make it harder for new readers to come on board?

How long is it since new readers came to comics? They just sell to old fanbeards and people-who-kicked-the-habit-for-a-while-but-then-had- to-move-back-into-their-parents-basements. Kids these days play GTA and smoke crackling. 'Infinite Crisis' was an acknowledgement that trying to get new readers was a waste of time. Go buy the new six Superman and Batman titles and be happy, otherwise H.E.A.T. will come and kick your arse.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:33 / 10.05.07
Der Falke is quite right - I meant that we had lots and lots of Earths (pre-Crisis), then one (Post-Crisis), then lots and lots (lemniscate crisis), then one (apparently) and now we've got lots of Earths again.

On the plus side, I imagine that this will really allow Power Girl to come into her own. She's from Earth-2 really, you know.
 
 
ZF!
14:15 / 10.05.07
They just sell to old fanbeards

I thought the term was fatbeard.
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:21 / 10.05.07
Is there a technical term for the fact that the universe within which the stories of the DC characters take place has been through its own stories or changes?

Don’t know if (as Grant Morrison has suggested) the DC Universe being self-aware is really a likely thing unless it has an awareness of the fact that it (to simplify enormously) started out as one universe, then became a multiverse, then a compressed single universe with flaws plus hypertime, then a multiverse again… would a universe that was self-aware also have to be aware of its own ever-changing nature? Just a thought.

Also, can anyone think of any other media or storyforms where an audience has to be able (or ready) to understand the fluctuations of the story environment before they can understand the smaller-scale stories? I’ve explained that badly, but I hope you know what I mean.

Anyway, away from my rambling, and back on-topic, Grant Morrison is ‘exit interviewed’ about 52 here (hope the link works).
 
 
FinderWolf
18:12 / 10.05.07
The simple answer is: Yes. It's a super-mega-hyper-post-human-multiverse. In 5D. Self-aware enough to know that it prefers strawberry ice cream to chocolate.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:15 / 10.05.07
Ah, but it's a multiverse now (again? still? 'til Tuesday) -- wouldn't it prefer Neopolitan?
 
 
Malio
19:13 / 10.05.07
If anyone's been wondering who wrote what, this guy seems to have cracked it.
 
 
Benny the Ball
19:32 / 10.05.07
I'm just working my way through the series in bulk - trying very hard to not play who did what bit (a lot of it does read like exactly what it was claiming, that they all threw ideas in) but it'll be interest to go back and read bits that are just one writers if that list is correct. So far I'm liking it a lot - there are a few bits that seem to be swept under the carpet or just forgotten, but it's good writing for the most part.
 
 
Benny the Ball
19:46 / 10.05.07
In fact, the more I read, the more I think that the biggest failing with the series was not the series itself, but that DC seemed to either be too scared or too greedy and did the whole OYL thing at the same time. They could have easily run books doing contained and hyper-time or whatever stories throught the DCU and had 52 running as the only real continuity book for a year.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:49 / 10.05.07
well, Morrison said literally here (as to who wrote what):

>> Otherwise, we all just kind of agreed which plot strands we'd tackle on day one and that's how we did it. Geoff did almost all the Black Adam bits, Greg did all the Montoya bits, Mark did all the Ralph Dibny scenes except for a couple in issue #30 which I wrote. The point is we were all playing together to create the 'music' in any given issue of 52 and the 'who wrote who' question is largely irrelevant to the overall feel of the book.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:52 / 10.05.07
ah, but Morrison does say 'plot' and not literally who scripted what...but still, his statement above seems to fit. Although I got the feeling Morrison wrote a lot of the Crime Bible text, even though it seems Rucka wrote all the Batwoman stuff for the most part.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:58 / 10.05.07
That is a terrible, terrible thing to say. The crime bible? Ow.
 
 
Malio
20:54 / 10.05.07
FinderWolf, I agree that 52 was essentially a collaborative effort in ideas and plotting but I think it is interesting to see how the actual script-writing breaks down and I'm pretty sure that guy has found the answer. His theory can, for example, accomodate GM's comments in his Newsarama 52 Exit interview that it was Greg Rucka who scripted the Oolong Island pages in #26.

Also, you could be right about there being an element of bleeding across in the scripted pages. I think I recall GM saying in his recent Fanboy Radio interview that all the writers were given a pass at the final dialogue. For example, the above link has Geoff Johns as the scripter of the opening pages of #34 but I would bet a lot of lolly that GM wrote the line "And after we helped Kid Eternity store the Keeper's plans for controlling the dead, Zatara conjured up some wonderful ham and cheese sandwiches for lunch!"

But yeah, the basic principle is that the series was the product of four minds.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
22:32 / 10.05.07
Aye, but there was, briefly, at the end of 8C a multiverse, which was then compressed into this New Earth - so the point of 52 has been that... well, not completely.

Ah, yes. I forgot about Infinite Crisis. On the grounds that I really didn't care about it at all. Thanks for the correction, Falke/Haus!
 
 
FinderWolf
01:26 / 11.05.07
yep, Malio, I've checked out the link you provided above and it really does seem very detailed and comprehensive. Fun detective work on that guy's part...noticing the font each writer used for their script.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:35 / 21.05.07
I finally managed to get to the comic shop and pick up the last two issues.

Quite an enjoyable end to a series that, even at its worst, has kept me entertained. Even though most of the twists had already been predicted it was cool to see Mr Mind going hyperfly and re-write the multiverse by munching on it.

Liked Buddy's return home, his family sitting down round him to hear about his travels. I don't think it needed the alien bounty hunters, but still, nice final pan-out (although, seriously, did it need Starfire fainting in shock?).

Interesting to see that, in amidst all the hilarity of WWIII, Black Adam managed to make himself a natty pair of boots out of a certain Crocodillicus Apocalypticus. It's obviously the kind of thing one does.

So the Wildstorm universe is Earth 50 now huh? Or at least a version of it anyway. I'm fanwanking vigourously that the multitude of alternate dimensions one can access from there is either due to the whole Planetary "snowflake" thing or that it's where the DC multiverse attaches to a much bigger hyperstructure.

Not that it really matters.

Personally I'm hoping they haven't disposed of the antimatter version of the Crime Syndicate in favour of the Earth 2(?) versions created here (me want team-up/war of the evil justice leagues).

Anyway, lot of fun. Think I'll sit Countdown out though, give my wallet a rest.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:47 / 21.05.07
(although, seriously, did it need Starfire fainting in shock?)

I didn't see it as fainting from shock as much as it was her fainting from exhaustion, she had a pretty busy year leading up to that point.
 
 
Mario
15:21 / 21.05.07
I read one theory that she flew all the way back from Rann (as opposed to Zeta Beaming)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
18:07 / 21.05.07
That could work Mario, aren't the Zeta beams on a set time? Maybe she felt that waiting would take to long.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:13 / 21.05.07
I'm not entirely sure we need to fanwank an explanation for Starfire fainting - it's just an idiotic and offensive detail is all. Anyway, she'd be more likely to be too busy monologuing about how important passion and fire are to the Tamaranean culture to faint in the first place.
 
 
Mark Parsons
03:49 / 02.06.07
I'm reading the tpb and am really impressed all over again with this series. I did read it as it came out, but never reread at all. 52 really casts such a vast shadow over COUNTDOWN, which at the present time (48? Death of Lightray) feels horribly thin an rushed.

The commentary extras are nice, although GM's recollections is absent from v1.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
01:57 / 09.07.07
Just caught up on 52, and loved it except I found it a little jarring to see Morrison recycling Invisibles Zen parables near the end. Pressed for time, I guess.

But what works for Jack Frost may not work so well for Robin. I took the liberty of fixing things up a bit.
 
 
This Sunday
02:15 / 09.07.07
Someone just sent me all fifty-two issues in the mail, and I've just hit the point where I stopped really reading them the first time 'round.

Have to say the series is reading pretty good reading a few issues a day, as opposed to one a week and trying to keep order of everything. The fact that the writers are putting things together as they go makes things appear smoother when there's little time to note the gaps and shunts of plotting, or waiting for the Buddy & Co. bits to move along (far more interesting to me than the Montoya or Adam parts).

Characterization's coming through better, too. Some of the artists - and I'm presuming layout has only something to do with this - were really good at relaying the physical characterization, weren't they? Buddy and Starfire when we first come onto them, complete with differences in how they hold their shoulders, actually making eye contact during a conversation... versus the incredible fluctuations of Billy Batson, which come off too cartooned for my taste, from blathering loony on a throne with the Sins, to calm, smiley and presiding over a wedding.

Am tempted to look online (or back in this thread) for stuff I've forgotten, but am enjoying reading almost blind, with only vague deja vu feelings creeping in here and there.

Depending on how that Robin scene actually goes in the book, though, I may be highly disappointed.

Q: 52?

+] [-] Spoiler

It must be so.
 
 
Abraxas
09:12 / 06.10.07
I find it rather puzzling that Morrison doesn't seem to have contributed in the least to the extra material (creator commentary etc.) in the 52 TPs. Anyone in the know as to why that should be?

Until now I didn't get the impression that he has ever been unwilling to talk about his work or at least his part in a collaboration. On the other hand, I haven't read any statement by him that he wasn't happy with the outcome of this project.

Can anybody from the 'lith board enlighten us as to what's going on here?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:31 / 06.10.07
I find it rather puzzling that Morrison doesn't seem to have contributed in the least to the extra material (creator commentary etc.) in the 52 TPs. Anyone in the know as to why that should be?

It's absence is very noticeable and you can almost generate his content purely by the gaps; I'm left wondering if they've got him locked up in the basement generating ideas and NO TIME to write extra content. Or, as 52 was a slightly uneven project, he doesn't really want to talk about it.
 
 
Mark Parsons
20:39 / 06.10.07
Maybe he's not into the group commentary track thing.

And I'd take issue with 52 being uneven. I'm rereading it in tpb and it is excellent, a far different experience from the weekly fix. I'd rate it as one of the best, if not THE best, superhero comic event (not a wide field of contenders) as well as a damn fine example of good pulp comics period. I would LOVE to see this team do another weekly series, as the club-footed COUNTDOWN has shown that it's damn hard to pull off. That's probably a pipe dream, but I expect DC will follow FINAL CRISIS with another weekly featuring the presumptive new status quo.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
20:42 / 06.10.07
Oh, I certainly like 52 a lot better when read in the trades, but that doesn't mean there weren't some problems there -- the Steel/Luthor plot still doesn't really do much of anything for me and I still would have liked some more of the Charlie/Renee odd couple action before their arc is absorbed into the Adam/Isis kill-punch arc.

When's Volume 4 out?
 
 
The Falcon
20:51 / 06.10.07
Steel/Luthor plot still doesn't really do much of anything for me

I wanted to die, every time I was reading a page of that.

I read 52 through just after it finished, but the thought of.. the thought of rereading it, especially the issue that declares 'Because YOU demanded it.. the return of Infinity Inc.!' - it's just too much. The onerous task, the dread in stomach's pit. No, no. (Ironically, the new Infinity Inc. comic had a really good, odd first issue and an okay follow-up, and I'm somewhat invested in it.)
 
  

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