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7 Soldiers: Mister Miracle

 
  

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Mario
22:24 / 11.03.06
There seems to be 2 or 3 possibilities.

1. As soon as he left the black hole, in issue #1. The way time shifts so quickly suggests that might be the case... it feels like the rushed suburb life in #4. This is my choice.

2. Right after he breaks free of the Anti-Life Equation in #3, which is when Omega is first mentioned. There's no clear transition point, however.

3. Theoretically, when the Oracle zaps him. But "I will free you!" just doesn't fit. If anything, Oracle is Alpha, not Omega.
 
 
The Falcon
00:28 / 12.03.06
Yeah, there's also a point, just prior to remeeting Metron, at which Williams has used the exact pose - a sortae tumble - that Ferry had Shilo in in the first ish. Just as time dilates, and can be experienced subjectively?

I'm still a bit befuddled by how Mr. M's even gonna know what he's sposed to do in SS#1; given Metron's advisory 'free all the gods' bit, I'd have to guess they're all trapped like Aurakles inside the event horizon...
 
 
The Falcon
00:29 / 12.03.06
Trapped by the Sheeda, that is.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
01:00 / 12.03.06
Duncan: I'd have to guess they're all trapped like Aurakles inside the event horizon...

Possibly in the eye of Hurrican Gloria. Possibly in the Castle Revolving itself, where bones are used as masonry...

These things hunt super-heroes. And, I'd bet, gods. They are the Humanity of Tomorrow: in Summer's End, old god-forms have been deconstructed, disassembled, and made into fair game as well (consider, if you will, Oubliette in Marvel Boy, explicitly stating she'd hunted and killed Greek Gods; hop, skip and jump to New Gods).
 
 
Mario
01:45 / 12.03.06
While all these ideas have merit...

The obvious answer is that they are trapped in the flesh-suits we see them wearing in this mini. Only Metron has some relative freedom, and even then, he has to hide where Dark Side can't see him.
 
 
Aertho
04:54 / 12.03.06
Yeah... that's what I think works... Dark Side complains about time heating up and stuff, and the Gods trapped in DCU fleshsuits echoes JLA:Classified.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
19:45 / 12.03.06
How'd you get there?

Well, first of all, I'm deep in narrative theory regarding Zatanna and Promethia for a paper I'm delivering at a confrence next week, so I have narrative structures on the brain, but:

It seems to me, from a re-reading of MM #1-4, especially alongside Zatanna, that the "fundamental force that is restriction" is in fact the narrative confines of the comic itself. More to the point, Shiloh, once trapped "in the omega" seems to be at the mercy of the basic narrtive techniques of comics as a medium. The negative space between panels (which is normally white, however in MM the gutters are black... certianly that's a common mechanic in books striving for a darker tone, however, with a book as obviously aware of itself as this one you can't take it for granted) traps Shiloh and has him at its mercy.

Panel jumps speed-age him, pop him into different circumstances and run him through an endless stream of continuity changes and crossovers. From Last Laugh to CRISIS 2, Shiloh is trapped in the little boxes of continuity. This idea is represented in the text as Omega.

However, Omega, as a limiting force, is also bound and trapped... the negative space between panels... the Omega of continuity and the forces that drive it are in fact trapped within that same superstructure.

When, in the end, he confronts Omega and convinces it/the reader to "escape together", he appears to be appealing for an establishment of liminal spaces (and Seven Soldiers as a whole is dripping with liminality) and lo and behold he's back in the event horizon of a black hole (a liminal space... and one with strange panel structure) with Metron who is congratulating him on his initation. He then falls back into the DCU.

But rather than this being a sad scene, it's immeadeately followed up by a shot of young shiloh eating the ice cream his brother promised him, having escaped... a happy guilt-free memmory that has *no borders* and is also backed by a soft open white space.

This last ish really mirrors Zatanna a lot in that the main character has to reach out to the world beyond the nearritive for help and/or cooperation. If only the art on MM had been more consistent so I could draw stronger conclusions. My thoughts, I'll admit, are also highly informed by the preview art (does anyone have a link for those pics?) that showed the 2-page spread with Shiloh and Metron as happening in a comic-book.
 
 
Aertho
19:59 / 12.03.06
Holy shoot.

You win.



!
 
 
Aertho
20:16 / 12.03.06
And I thought I was cool for a moment for noticing that Zatanna's whole thing was about addressing her audience - her character's specific higher authority, as well as narrating in soliloquy and "taking the stage" in every dramatic scenario.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:20 / 12.03.06
Isn't the point of the last page that Mister Miracle is the comics equivalent of the little autistic kid from Hill St Blues?

Do you mean St Elsewhere?

And then I woke up, and it was all a dream.
 
 
Aertho
02:10 / 13.03.06
Okay. I'm not sold that Omega represents the comics audience so much as the comics industry that ressurrects, reimagines, reuses, and maintains the status quo of consistently darkening stories. I see your black gutters, and your full bleed spreads, and wish Billy Dallas Patton had listened to Grant's rather obvious request for rectangular, non-overlapping frames. The grid is the prison.

And while I get what you're saying, I soooo wish that they'd left the gutters white after he escapes the black hole the second time. Cause it means he's still trapped, right?

Is MM(Grant) appealing to other writers when he addresses Omega? Is he appealing to the industry?

Keep going. You're my new favorite poster. Beastmaster and Jog haven't caught up to you yet.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:43 / 13.03.06
Cassandra: And while I get what you're saying, I soooo wish that they'd left the gutters white after he escapes the black hole the second time. Cause it means he's still trapped, right?

Shilo (and by extension, everyone) must live in perpetual imprisonment in order to be in perpetual escape - that's his reason for existing. So, I get what you're sayin'.
 
 
Quimper
16:50 / 13.03.06
I like that, following Mongoose's uber-post, Omega is the confine of the actual comic narrative.

While Gwydion from Zatanna, IMO, is the limitless possibility of the comic narrative. the "alphabet trapped in a tree that waits to become a book".

Gwydion as free Alpha, the concept of the story...the idea of it, the potential. Against Omega, the confined story mired in continuity.
 
 
Aertho
16:56 / 13.03.06
I mean, leave the comicbook confines, but brighten the gutters, you know? Symbologically, at least! I mean, here's a guy who's mutant power is to all the foldie bendy Invisible College shit like King Mob and Animal Man. Sweetness!

Will post more after work.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
17:01 / 13.03.06
i'm with you guys on this. if only there had been a sole really good artist on this - or a more fit, that was not rushed at the last minute to fill in - maybe the actual storytelling wouldn't feel so convoluted.

this was the kind of book that needed the artist to be on the same... page as the writer. you ignore the panel descriptions a bit and you lose the original intent. that's the problem with meta stories, the formal structure has to be there in order the content to be fully efective.

on a less warrenellis-y note, maybe there's hope Mike Allred can do a future Mr. M. book by Mr. M...
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:36 / 13.03.06
Quimper: Gwydion as free Alpha, the concept of the story...the idea of it, the potential. Against Omega, the confined story mired in continuity.

Interesting, and I hadn't thought of that. Possibly this will come into play in SS#1?
 
 
Aertho
17:46 / 13.03.06
I want to know if IMS has any theories about what the others' stories contribute to the uber meta-narrative he describes. If Zatanna is about reaching audience, and Miracle about transcending format... I'm gonna stay away from the colors long enough for hir to finish what ze's suggesting.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
18:36 / 13.03.06
Hey, I haven't vanished or anything, just really super-busy. Also, as a note, I'll come back to this thread, but I'm going to be in Ft. Lauderdale for the enxt week and I don't know how wired I'll be down there.

Anyway:

"I want to know if IMS has any theories about what the others' stories contribute to the uber meta-narrative he describes."

I have some ideas but I'm not really 100% certian of some of them. I'm hoping I'll be able to take a better look at things once #1 comes out. However, somce structural things are clear even at this incomplete stage. First, both Miracle Man and Zatanna "escape" from the confines of the narative into the space between the text and the reader. Interestingly enough the reason for both of these escapes could be seen as looking for release from guilt.

It's also interesting how much of a factor guilt is in many of the stories. Zatanna, Justin, Shiloh and Jake are all bound by guilt which they have to defeat in order to survive. The Newsboy Army was ripped apart by guilt and secrets and if you want to look at how Seven Soldiers is relating to the greater text of the DCU, then it's probably relevant to add that all of this is happening at a time when the big 7 of the JLA are also being ripped apart by guilt.

I think the Zatanna bit is really interesting because the guilt of her actions in the greater DCU are the obvious subtext of a lot of what is going on in her miniseries. What fascinates me is that when she breaks the fourth wall (or the "fifth gutter", the negative space between the reader and the text) she's not doing it as an escape, but to ask for help... help, by and large, from a readership that has seen her actions in orther titles and events (mindwipe-a-palooza over in the Crisis books). In a way, she's unknowingly asking for forgiveness from that most unforgiving of monsters: comic book readers. And, given how many people on here said they reached back out to the image of her hand, she seems to have found it in a sense.

As far as an overall structure? Well, my hunch, and this isn't something I'd touch on in a paper for publication (at least in an academic journal... maybe in Konton or what have you) is that Seven Soldiers is a working, perhaps a hypersigil, to help the DCU universe gain the sentience and emergent complexity that Morrison is always talking about. Basicly if enough of the DCU manages to grow up and out of its scaffolding (remember the endless scaffolding metaphors in the Invisibles) it can grow up to be a real boy. Or something.

I have a few other ideas re: the overall structures of Seven Soldiers (the distributed network nature of the Seven almost harkens back to Bloom's "The Global Brain" for me) but nothing really concrete. I mean, overall the main themes seem to be: guilt, lininality, monstorous bodies, piercing the gutters and distributed action and evil faires from the far side of time I can see some of those themes (liminality, monstrous bodies, transgressions of space and even distributed networks) as all extentions of one theme, in fact: the transgressive and transformitive power of superheroic/posthuman narratives.

Oh and: "I'm not sold that Omega represents the comics audience so much as the comics industry that ressurrects, reimagines, reuses, and maintains the status quo of consistently darkening stories."

I think that perhaps that's a better way of putting it... although I would say it applies to the industry, the (current) audience and the structures those entities place on the DCU equally.

Ack! Anyway, I need to get back to writing.
 
 
The Falcon
20:23 / 13.03.06
Hey, feel free to drop your paper in whichever thread you feel's appropriate - Zatanna?

I'm definitely down for a read.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
21:06 / 13.03.06
As far as an overall structure? Well, my hunch, and this isn't something I'd touch on in a paper for publication (at least in an academic journal... maybe in Konton or what have you) is that Seven Soldiers is a working, perhaps a hypersigil, to help the DCU universe gain the sentient and emergent complexity that Morrison is always talking about. Basicly if enough of the DCU manages to grow up and out of its scaffolding (remember the endless scaffolding metaphors in the Invisibles) it can grow up to be a real boy. Or something.

Huh.

That kind of blew my fuses for a second. I was always intrigued by GM's talk of making the DCU more sentience, but I hadn't seen how his meta-narratives with 7S would be prodding that sentience into being aware...

Thanks.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
21:34 / 13.03.06
also the eternal dichotomy of Reality x Fiction [in this case, "Realism x Fantasy"] that is spread all over 7S, as also an allegory for the trends in Comics and Pop in general.

we've discussed this before, but it's never too much, as I guess this is the theme in 7S that contains all the others.

so what is the adult life? I keep remembering that Hulk run when Banner's mind controlled the monster's body. it's the right ammount of both Fantasy and Realism at work given the proper circunstance.

and the fact that I've used the Hulk as metaphor for adult life says a lot about me... =)
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:49 / 13.03.06
Hector: and the fact that I've used the Hulk as metaphor for adult life says a lot about me... =)

I think it's apt in this case. Another one might be simply saying that All-Star Superman is an example of what the ultimate goal of Seven Soldiers is: maturity viewing childlike wonder without trying to justify/rationalize/destroy it.
 
 
LDones
22:28 / 13.03.06
On a more basic level 7S is simply about growing up and coping - deciding to cope with lives filled with randomness, inadequacy, tragedy, distraction, restriction. Growing up and coping for humans and comics themselves/the DCU.

Omega's a metaphor for the very simple idea that human beings become too busy getting by to stop and infuse their own lives with significance, to rest and examine the essence of themselves, their feelings, their place in the world. The MM mini takes the very normal idea that we don't have time for our dreams or happiness and feel confined and constricted in lives we never imagined we'd have, and then just magnifies it by saying the cause is that we're TRAPPED BY EVIL ENSLAVED GODS IN SERVICE TO DARKSEID!

It's perfect Morrison. It's huge and operatic and filled with associative insanity, but really it's just about a guy in a rut who hates himself because he can't cope with his life and his guilt - and the process he goes through to come out the other end of it - all magnified by one million into crazy superness. (Though the superness excuses Shilo from having to make the labored process of recovery from tragedy and depression that people have to make, the journey's still there compressed)

That having been said, I do agree that it's also meant as an overdue criticism of the more subtly destructive tendencies of superhero fiction, and the observation that Omega is in the panel gutters, confining MM's life to degradation, and the comic itself to tragic tropes is really sharp.

I imagine that the life of fiction is the same as the life of human beings in Morrison's take on this. Everything that can be said about the story's statements on being human can be reflected in the direction of superhero comics, and vice versa.

Ed Stargard is a metaphor for superhero comics never growing up, just getting old, but he's also representative of the idea of human beings en masse doing the same - feeling that they're old children, flubbing their way through life trying to compensate for their childhood traumas and guilt.

7S is Morrison trying to nudge the DCU, comics, *and* the readers in the direction of healthy coping, possibly the only realy growing up there is.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
16:14 / 14.03.06
Just finished reading this. It has my favorite line from all the 7 Soldiers stuff so far. When Miracle's talking to Omega.
So whatever's holding you down, wherever you are, however hard it seems...how about you and me escape together?
That was great and gave me a huge smile.
 
 
Mario
17:06 / 14.03.06
Suddenly, I'm reminded of why comics are sometimes called "escapist".
 
 
Sniv
17:23 / 14.03.06
It's official, Seven Soldiers is like a nice, big hug.

I read the mini as a whole yesterday and really enjoyed it. As I thought it would, it feels really consistent and very much it's own story (unlike some of the other minis, with their quite tight interconnectivity). It came over much better in an extended reading than sandwiched between other stories and crushed under anticipation. I knew mozzer could do it!
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:56 / 14.03.06
All this talk (which is grand) about the themes of growing up reminds me of something GM said at his Q & A at WONDERCON. He mention how comics were stuck in a perpetual adolescence and even the Wildstorm stuff which claims to be superheroes for adults is still stuck in an adolescent paradigm with conflicts resolved with dramatic fights etc. He went on to say that his overall vision for the wildstorm universe is to nudge it towards true adulthood. Using compromise, consent, maturity and communication as an adult means of resolving conflict would drive the stories he would write for WildC.A.T.S. and The Authority.

He didn't go into more detail as he feared doing so would result in lesser versions of those same ideas appearing in other comics in a month's time. I'm wondering if the wildstorm stuff with be the inherit S7 themes in the same way S7 inherited themes from New-X-meN.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:18 / 15.03.06
Tricksy: He didn't go into more detail as he feared doing so would result in lesser versions of those same ideas appearing in other comics in a month's time. I'm wondering if the wildstorm stuff with be the inherit S7 themes in the same way S7 inherited themes from New-X-meN.

...which in turn got its themes from Invisibles (everything you know is a lie! Apparent chaos is actually order//it's a rescue mission//universal cleansing may now commence), which derived a character and some themes from Doom Patrol. Not to mention the looping electricity of Animal Man to We3 or Flex Mentallo to All-Star Superman.

I think it was Margaret Atwood who said that most writers secretly write the same story or couple stories over and over again throughout their careers, subconsciously desperate to finally get it right. GM has his themes, and they're maturing as he does...
 
 
miss wonderstarr
19:14 / 17.03.06
I suggest that this was a messy miniseries with mediocre art and a reprehensibly inadequate connection to Seven Soldiers, and that the posts about issue #4 above are possibly reading more depth and complexity into it than it deserves.

This issue had some trippy appeal, but I wonder if you're not all doing Morrison's work for him by trying so hard to tie it up and make sense of it. It's like he performed 40% and you're giving it an extra 80. I don't think this series hung together at all, and as a puzzle I think it's a cheat.
 
 
Aertho
19:26 / 17.03.06
Oh Kovacs!

You're no fun!

Read Beastmaster's and Jog's interpretations, and then follow up with what Imaginary Mongoose Solutions is saying. I think it's brilliant. Ferry was leading us there, if you sense the design language he was using...

In fact, I'm making a simple patch... like Cameron did in Invisibles... to better illustrate how Mr. Miracle escapes the framing device that captures his life "in the story". Photoshop Ahoy. I'll submit jpegs when I'm ready.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:36 / 17.03.06
It's no fun to call a girl by a boy's name!

Read Beastmaster's and Jog's interpretation

OK... well, Beastmaster's entry on #4 seems to be just a series of quotations.

Here's Jog -- "Note the triumphant sundae (which unfortunately appears to be vanilla, not chocolate) and the undone straightjacket in that final splash.

“Be free. Free the gods. Free all of us.”

So says Metron, meeting up with Shilo on the seventh day, the biblical nature of that number now pertinent."

I don't want to take easy shots here, but when someone has to present as elements worthy of note the fact that a black character isn't eating a chocolate sundae, and that seven is a key day in the Bible as well as in the name of this series, the comic book text itself is lacking any obvious qualities to discuss and celebrate. I don't think you have to point out that kind of tenuous cross-reference, obscure and crass at once (assuming the color of the sundae is important, but drawing what seems to be an incredibly simple observation from it) if the comic actually gives you something satisfying at face value.

More than any other miniseries in this project, this story seems to be looking forward to further adventures down the DCU pike, beyond the confines of this bottled metahuman world; it maybe isn’t too forward to wonder aloud if perhaps this arm of the project was initially conceived as its own separate entity, and one day found a way to get published, with perhaps some enhanced sales appeal, by latching itself onto a larger thing.

= this comic doesn't fit into "Seven Soldiers" and was shoehorned awkwardly because that's the only way it would see print and get sales. This seems to agree with something I suggested above.

If so, there’s no denying that the themes at least fit right into the larger Seven Soldiers saga

The themes fit in? I should be thankful that chapter 35 of a book fits in generally with the themes of chapters 36 and 37, never mind whether it has any connection with the plot and characters?

This one got a bit better as it went along; it’s still bumpy, and kind of obscure, and I can just imagine the reactions of those readers completely unacclimated to the New Gods mythos, but it does offer a coherent, appealing point of view. Not the strongest of the Seven Soldiers minis to me

Again, I tend to agree. I don't think a whole segment Seven Soldiers should demand a prior knowledge of the New Gods to get any concrete understanding or pleasure from it.


and then follow up with what Imaginary Mongoose Solutions is saying. I think it's brilliant.


What IMS is saying is intelligent and coherent. Although the bottom line from IMS is, as I understand it, Zatanna and Mister Miracle are both about escaping and challenging the confines of the comic-book text with its frames and fourth wall (Fourth World), and as such form a hyper-sigil that, Morrison may feel, is going to enable the DCU to break the prison of fiction.

That adds value to Mister Miracle in particular, and may as I suggested be giving the comic levels of interesting meaning that weren't intended and which elevate a messy, unsuccessful comic into something more advanced.

If those devices were intended:

(i) they are hardly new themes for Morrison -- they date back at least to Animal Man and were last seen in The Filth. So while consistent, it's not really a radical notion for him.

(ii) they only seem present in the final episodes of Zatanna and Mister Miracle, which is a weak way of constructing a hyper-sigil and seems kind of half-hearted if that's the central theme of Seven Soldiers.

(iii) the hyper-sigil concept was central to The Invisibles and, despite my respect for Morrison's belief in magic and my own belief that it gives his work intriguing dimensions, I suspect it's not actually going to work. Fiction will not, I think, become real because Morrison breaks the fourth wall in a comic, any more than it will because the Coyote looks out at the viewer for a second before plunging from a cliff.

(iv) it still doesn't excuse the fact that Mister Miracle does not (seem to, at this very late point) interlock with Seven Soldiers or add anything to our understanding of the wider narrative, except in terms of some themes, some potential connections and two extremely brief cameos.

Ferry was leading us there, if you sense the design language he was using...


Again, I feel this is stretching. Maybe it was intentional on Ferry's part. But this feels like making excuses for a middling piece of work.

I don't think anyone's mentioned the Superman t-shirt on page 1 and, more obviously, Batman t-shirt on page 3. Are they of any relevance?
 
 
Aertho
20:47 / 17.03.06
Bad form, Miss Flamboyance.

Aaron said he'd buy Shilo a chocolate sundae on page 9.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
20:59 / 17.03.06
My bad! OK, a score against me that I blushingly accept.

Can I recover some poise by suggesting that we shouldn't have much faith in the overarching, coherent design work of an artist who can't follow that basic continuity? You may say you shouldn't pay much attention to a reader who forgets it, but I wasn't being paid for my job.
 
 
Aertho
21:09 / 17.03.06
You seriously follow up a faulty accusation of racism with basic continuity ? Did Shilo wear two different shoes at one point?
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:25 / 17.03.06
Oh, my point wasn't an accusation of racism at all.

I admit it was stupid of me to misread Jog's comment as some kind of broader complaint that there wasn't a coherent color-coding on all levels -- Shilo and the other characters' blackness has, I think, been important to this series and unusual in mainstream superheroism, and in contrast to Scott Free's whiteness, so I'm afraid that was the first thing I jumped to. I see you clever guys talking about how Klarion moves from "orange" to "blue" and vmemes and so on, and I thought this was one of those things. (Yeah, vanilla = white, chocolate = black... that was super-smart of me.)

I'd wrongly assumed that Jog was seeking layers of echoes and corresponding neat parallels (this may in fact be correct, but I was wrong in this specific nailing of it) and thought the complaint was not about an artist failing to follow a script direction, but some kind of comment about how whiteness ("vanilla" suggesting, to me, a kind of tame, sell-out whiteness) was inappropriate to this closing image of Shilo's vision.

Now, you may think this undermines the rest of my post, which tackled entirely different points; though I made a big boob, I don't think this slip means I'm wrong about the rest of it.
 
  

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