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Football football. Football football.

 
  

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The Falcon
15:08 / 29.03.06
Well, in that case, Spurs would go into the UEFA Cup this season.

Arsenal were magnificent last night, particularly Toure and Fab-regas, and fully merited a longer lead to take to Turin. However, it should suffice.
 
 
praricac
16:20 / 29.03.06
will 4th place not get in the champs league next season if arsenal win it?

anyway, they were stunning last night in a game i thought was going to pose real problems for them. juve looked fucked, they just couldn't live with the tempo.

i would add eboue to the list of outstanding performers, he looks like a real player (hleb seems to be fitting in well too, finally)

and barca looked well fallible against benfica (what a match that was!), so the second english champions league win in two years could be on the cards...
 
 
Brunner
19:52 / 29.03.06
Mmm...I'd love them to win it but can't too carried away. Even if they make the final I'll still be pessimistic. I've seen Arsenal thow away 3 European finals in the past - 1980 & 1995 Cup Winners Cups and 2000 UEFA Cup. And I'm trying to avoid all those silly parallels with Liverpool last season...

I don't know what Wenger will do when injured members of the squad return. I'd put Ashley Cole back in the team but sure about Campbell....
 
 
astrojax69
21:43 / 29.03.06
adriano and martens looked like they're prowling back towards form, and zanetti was unstoppable. but inter only held on 2-1 and makes them vulnerable in spain. didn't see any of the other natch this morning, heard it was nil each?

also didn't see any of the barca game - still, a juve / barca final?
 
 
Brunner
06:03 / 30.03.06
Oh how I want to say Juve are already out of it....but I daren't!
 
 
The Falcon
08:56 / 30.03.06
I will. I don't see anything other than 0-0,0-1,1-0 or 1-1 in the Delle Alpi; quite a wide range there, but possibly one's worth a bet. I'd put Campbell and Cole back in for Flamini and Senderos, but I'd leave Lauren out. Eboue's an absolute revelation, and Cote d'Ivoire could yet upset a few tables in Germany.
 
 
Brunner
10:25 / 30.03.06
Lauren is out for the season anyway so Eboue stays in. Flamini's work rate is high and he might be a better bet than a not-very-match-fit Cole (who probably has one eye on succeeding Roberto Carlos at Madrid). Senderos scares me at times but I'm not sure where Campbell is "mentally". Plus, these kids have got something to prove.

It would be nice to win it seeing as it's the last year at Highbury. Perhaps Dennis Bergkamp could make a final cameo appearance???
 
 
astrojax69
21:17 / 30.03.06
juve 3-0.

but 'borough look likely to end sooner than later. pity. undone by a three minute blast on the stroke of the half way whistle. still, mebbe they can emulate juve, and then try their best against a rampant shalke in the final.
 
 
astrojax69
22:10 / 02.04.06
just re-reading upthread and found i'd said this in october last year...

i must say, i am pleased zelko kalac was 'keeping. he is an outstanding prospect and i really don't understand the rave over schwarzer... anyone else rate mark schwarzer? what am i missing? ok, he's good, but kalac subs for dida at ac milan, f'christ's sake!!

[insert sound of astro eating words here.... munch, munch. mmm, humble pie - can i get liver-flavoured ice cream with that?]


schwatter has been outstanding and if he can continue until deep into june, pleased to have him... (that said, i still rate spider kalac and milan don't seem to notice when dida isn't there. my parma got one past dida! yea!)

not sure we really got much of a discussion earlier on the state of the league in america... they have started a season recently, no? what's happening, who's doing what and is this noticed? the national side look to have their work cut out to get out of their group: what does the us soccer press say, what's the vibe there!? we're getting pretty excited to be going, in australia. we don't really expect, no-one really expects us to get out of the group. o, but we hope...
 
 
astrojax69
03:48 / 03.04.06
... goes away. and finds this article by eggers.

first thoughts; what a hide to go and then call the book this is from 'the thinking fan's guide to the world cup'... 's he not realise that squillionty seven million other fans around the globe abhor diving, too? and a blank assertion that, oh, we'll probably just go and win it soon if we keep doing it. 's juz another 'nam... really! is this the depth of his analysis? anyone know him (i didn't read his ambitiously named 'heartbreaking work of staggering genius') does this stack up with what soccer is in america?

second thoughts: overall a quirky piece of social history with some useful ways of seeing soccer in the us context. but the above stands...!
 
 
Brunner
19:41 / 05.04.06
I thought that was a fairly tongue in cheek article (with perhaps a bit of smugness between the lines). The world doesn't need America to play football - let them play "World Series" baseball amongst themselves!!!

Oh and 3-0 to Juve Astro???
 
 
astrojax69
22:29 / 05.04.06
oh all right... so i was wrong on the juve thing... still, who is likely to take barcelona apart? ac milan looked very fragile and i thought on balance lyon deserved to get past them. that said, they didn't give up and captain andre little pippi did what was needed.

did anyone watch the juve game? we had the barca tie but, being my demanding lover's birthday, saw only about five minutes (admittedly, saw them go one up!)

i suspect that they won't make another final and it will be all spain in the final in paris.

can't see england [clubs] winning two in a row, can we???!!
 
 
astrojax69
22:30 / 05.04.06
oops, of course 'they' above meaning milan. i got ahead of meself....
 
 
Brunner
11:10 / 06.04.06
I reckon The Arse have a great chance against Villareal but it would be just like them to go crashing out to a lesser team having just beaten the giants of Real Madrid and Juventus.

Not sure I'd fancy their chances against Barcelona though. However, Henry would be on fire to further impress his (potentially) new employers! I'd prefer AC Milan in the final - an aging team to be run ragged by Arsenal's young legs.

One can but dream...
 
 
The Falcon
11:22 / 06.04.06
Nah, I'm all set for an Arsenal/Barca final; Villareal are decent, and Riquelme's some player, but Arsenal are so tight at the back right now, and frankly the former were extreeemely fucking ropey at home to Rangers. (At this point, I would like to note that Rangers record v. Aberdeen this season reads P:3 W:0 D:1 L:2 F:2 A:5, ergo Rangers are total peeyosh)

Milan were in no way good value to progress against Lyon, and the latter were ultimately made to pay for being too keen to sit on their 1-1, when they could and should have pressed for a definitive winner.

So, no, as a definitive showpiece, and imo a victory for and affirmation of everything great about the sport it has to be Arsenal v. Barcelona. Whether the Gooners can win that, well I hope so, don't see why not; they've been one of the best teams in Europe (esp. to watch) for a long time without ever worrying the further stages, and it'd be just desserts for le professeur Wenger & Henry.
 
 
astrojax69
05:05 / 11.04.06
they say football isn't a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that! (well, i think shankley said that?)

anyway, master chef and others, this little article may be of interest. what a sweet idea...
 
 
The Falcon
14:30 / 11.04.06
There was a couple a few years back got married in special Blackpool F.C. groom outfit and wedding dress, I think at the club's ground. Can't find a link, unfortunately. As I recall, the gear looked pretty good, though I'd not (be allowed to) do it myself.
 
 
astrojax69
16:11 / 11.04.06
though I'd not (be allowed to) do it myself.

aww, falc, you sound devestated! is ze not a blackpool fan...?
 
 
The Falcon
20:13 / 11.04.06
No, nor am I. She hates football.

Anyway, there's some good doc-o's on tonight about Fascism and Communism & football tonight on BBC4, and I think I'll have a swatch.
 
 
astrojax69
09:25 / 23.04.06
ok so i'm talking pretty much to meself...

excited about the semi final second legs that i'l be up at half four am on wed and thur my time next week, about pool's overcoming chelski to get harry cool to another major final - hopefully against 'borough so we've got a few more in the mix. i think barca will meet villareal in europe's showcase fixture and borough will get home at home against steau bucharest and meet schalke in the final of the second fiddle comp.

and now just 47 days to germany. ooooo... too much football can't be enough!
 
 
astrojax69
23:41 / 23.04.06
hey falc, did you watch those docos on football and fascism? any good - recommend them? do tell....
 
 
astrojax69
07:12 / 24.04.06
damn, and now this, but we do have zelko kalaz, let me remind you... poor schwatter! get better....

question: what is football coverage like elsewhere? in australia we pretty much have sbs as the network for any football at all, but boy it's good, for free. of course we have sky and shit at clubs or through fox at home if you can afford to pay. this shows english premier league games and i dunno what else, 'cause i can't afford to pay, or time to watch!

but free sbs has all the major european leagues covered in a 3-6hr (depends on time of year) coverage each sunday, then champions league games live at each stage, fa cup final, all the world cup - all of it, free! til 2014 - and then in this sunday 'world game' program they have feature games that can be from asia cup finals to boca juniors to africa nations cup to premier league or other euro comps and leagues.

but what i like most is that this show comes with an excellent team, featuring mr soccer in australia, les murray. our most erudite and knowledgeable socceroo johnny warren was also a staple until his sad death before we qualified. and other soceroos, coaches and insiders who have excellent broadcast skills give us analysis in fair, incisive and sometimes deliberately controversial ways. they are a beacon of the game from a spectator's point of view while being encouraging and educative about football for players and coaches as well as fans.

other than that, hardly anyone knows a bloody thing in the australian press. what's your coverage like?
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
08:16 / 24.04.06
Well, astrojax - you must be pretty pleased about Kewell's performance in the semi against Chelsea. Shame he had to go off. I was disappointed with Chelsea - Mourinho really messed up. Kewell skinned Geremi time and again - Ferreira really should've been put at right-back, and Geremi taken off instead of Del Horno. I'd strongly dispute the free-kick that lead to Liverpool's first goal - Kewell's foot was as high as Terry's and the ball was there to be won - but they deserved their lead, Chelsea were awful in the first half. Anyway.
Apart from that, I was happy to see Spurs draw against Arsenal. I kinda like Spurs - Jol's built a very good squad there. I'd love to see them get into the Champions' League. Especially ahead of Arsenal.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
09:47 / 24.04.06
Football. For free. The joy. I like SBS coverage, astro, although on occasion it does feel a bit 'educational'. Admittedly, last time I watched it was for the Australia qualifiers so they were probably trying to ensure that the great unwashed tuning in because it suddenly seemed important understood what was going on. Watching those qualifiers was an absolute mission in the UK because no bugger had bothered to get the rights for the matches. In the end, I think it was Channel 5 (crap terrestrial commercial broadcaster) which had bought them for a packet of gummi bears and was showing the matches a few days later at 3.15 in the morning. Or something. I ended up subscribing to online South American tv for a month just to get the games and watching them on the PC. (I even ended up joining the Green and Gold Army message boards in order to hunt down the game!) But I digress...

UK is saturation football coverage - if you can afford it. In essence, it's Sky for around 45 squids a month, plus another pay per view channel for which they rob you of around 50 squids for the season (I think). My true shame, in my otherwise ethics heavy lifestyle, is that I subscribe to Sky and thus act as a supporter of the evil Murdoch empire. But ya gotta, if you want footie. And it is probably the only thing saving my liver. Commercial terrestrial broadcasters have some Champions League/UEFA Cup coverage and the BBC gets the odd FA Cup game. BBC has a Premiership highlights package in the form of Match of the Day, and Sky has around 3 million channels dedicated to rehashing and discussing every second of football played (and which is now played damn nigh seven days a week) many of them featuring a man called Rob McCaffrey, whom I pray you never have the misfortune to encounter.

Coverage of the Premiership could be about to change following a ruling on the sale of rights packages. I plan to start a thread on this as more detail emerges - but I may be the only one anal enough to have a real interest in broadcast rights in sport...

Opinion will no doubt be divided, but the commentary, particularly on the terrestrial channels, is almost routinely appalling in my view. Motson makes my eyes bleed. And the punditry is not all that either. I dare say there will be plenty of people to disagree with me.

Channel 4 (another terrestrial) used to have Serie A, but it's on cable channel Bravo now - although they do have at least two live games a week which is good and have nicked James Richardson and the Gazetta show which is ace. Sky has La Liga (largely since Beckham joined and its coverage could be more aptly titled the Real Madrid show) and British Eurosport has all kinds of wonderful coverage from Europe and elsewhere. Channel 5 used to show South American football at ridiculous hours of the morning, but I don't know if they still do.

Bet that was way more info and much less interest than you were after, but at least now you know.

My questions to you Astrojax are: how is the revamped league going in Australia, then? Does it get good coverage on SBS? How are the crowds going? What's the quality like?

And my supplementary question: do you know of a decent book about the history of football in Australia with particular reference to the highly entertaining but largely disgraceful shenanigans of the wombats formerly knows as Soccer Australia? I think there's a great book in it, and toy with the notion of writing one. Has someone beaten me to it?
 
 
astrojax69
21:48 / 24.04.06
well, t. tickletooth, the revamped ap-league is going a right treat! the final, won by sydney fc featuring dwight yorke, was a cracker watched at the stadium by over 30 000 people. the world game has/had highlights each week of the games a longish segment dissecting the round, but the rights are with a pay tv mob - fox? - and so no games are live free tv, dammit. but the cash input of something like 12 million a year is a boon the australian fa couldn't knock back and i wouldn't want them to. cash will go into team and youth development and eventually, i hope, lead to greater coverage and acceptance of football here.

you're right, i suspect, that les, fozzie, mr palumbo and the lads and lasses at sbs (great they always have women on their teams and tracey holmes was on last week, popping by the studio on a trip from her now-home china, telling us she'll be on the sbs world cup team. very astute observer, her!) were keen to educate the great unwashed. but they did this with a fair degree of rigour and tact and made it accessible to even us learned few...

the a-league is a remarkably high standard of football, considering it is the first year, many teams were underdone and will only get better, especially as we start the long road to pitting our club teams against the rest of asia's established competitions, like the j-league in japan. (funnily, the sportsbet pop-up on the soccernet site i usually visit had rolling odds yesterday for the first games of the world cup and had us at 2.3 & japan at 2.7!! they think we'll win!!) but the crowds were huge - average 15 000 a game, which including the small attendances at the disappointing nz kings was a fabulous result - and the general buzz was 'what a killer! finally, football in australia worth watching' and now moves to get ageing socceroos and other dwight yorke-like players to attract the shallow unwashed. (i think i described the final and the league upthread a little, so trawl back up for a broader write-up)

and the supplementary question for ten: sbs put out 'mr and mrs soccer' about les murray and johnny warren that has a good background on what and where socer is here. i also think there was another johnny warren book on soccer here, but i'll check and get back. or you and i could write one together and we'll make a motza!

ta the description of football overload - if you can pay - in the uk. i remember growing up with match of the day, then more recently the premier league highlights package, but this was sold to pay-tv last year, so the only vision of top flight english football is the goal highlights on the sbs sports show at 7pm each evening. (and because sbs is a world tv broadcaster, their sports show is also non-australian only sport based. good upon it! hate parochialism in sport...)

anyway, thanks for chatting; which team/s do you follow, anyway? do you go see much football in london? did you in australia? i am a bit miffed canberra didn't get an a-league team, but i hope we might in the next five or six years. wanna go up see some sydney games this year... nothing to replace crystal palace, but, who will be promoted - you watch!!
 
 
astrojax69
23:01 / 24.04.06
btw i think this book might be one you'd get something from, if you want a wrap of soccer in australia. great title!
 
 
Jub
09:21 / 25.04.06
Souness new England Manager
 
 
The Falcon
13:01 / 25.04.06
Link does not work.
 
 
astrojax69
23:43 / 25.04.06
...and i haven't seen a reference to this in any football site - still maclaren & scolari in the punditry circles. souness? are they serious?

(i think it daft to make a decision before july. they'll have two years til euro from then and won't make waves with a possible brilliant candidate in scolari before his tenure with portugal is up. portugal could ruffle a few more fancied hopes this tournament)
 
 
astrojax69
03:49 / 27.04.06
rumour is that australia is after houllier to replace gus huddink, who takes over in russia after the australians win the world cup...

barca vs arsenal. be a boring match that one. but poor villereal, i thought they were good for a goal - just didn't happen. lovely to watch, both goaless games in spain. a rare treat, a double no goal spectacle. i'd like to see the stats on how long the ball was in play in the barca match; it hardly ever stopped...
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:17 / 27.04.06
It's all over the usual football sites this morning - Scolari has a verbal agreement to take over as English Manager from Sven after the World Cup. Excellent choice, should be very interesting. I daresay Scolari won't be afraid to drop players who aren't performing - after the defeat to Greece in the opening match of the Euro Championship, he pretty much replaced half the Portuguese team!
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:27 / 27.04.06
As to Villareal vs Arsenal...well, Riquelme kinda went to pieces after the penalty miss; he probably should've gotten to the rebound, but he was just in shock. I felt sorry for him. It's kinda ironic that Arsenal should get through to the final with a performance like that, and with brilliant defensive performances in general. I've got a feeling, though, that Barcelona will tear Arsenal apart - Eboué has looked a little nervy in the last few matches, and Clichy may not be fully match fit on the other side of defense - you need your full-backs to be at 100% to stand a chance of coping with the likes of Ronaldinho and Lionel Messi.
 
As to Houllier for Australia - word is Newcastle are after him, too, to work with Glen Roeder, although I reckon they'll probably give Roeder the job full-time after he's got his coaching badges. I have a lot of sympathy for Roeder - he got a lot of stick after West Ham got relegated, although he had to leave towards the end of the season for medical reasons - he had a superlative squad there, featuring the likes of Defoe, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, etc., and they had the highest points total of any team relegated from the Premiership - 42, if I recall correctly.
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
15:03 / 27.04.06
Football football indeed. Join astro in feeling sorry for Villareal - they couldn't buy a goal (not that I'm suggesting in any way that they tried to). I thought Arsenal were, in addition to being pathetically negative, a bit unsporting as well. Lots of niggly little kicks and shoves and quite a bit of laying about moaning. I'm going to have to go for Barca in the final, methinks.

As to Houllier - do we want him? Really? He does well in France, but I can't say I was overwhelmed by his work at Liverpool. If Big Phil turns down England (what a PR misjudgement - how *bad* is the FA going to look if they have to go after another manager, not saying they will, but if...) I think he'd be rather good for us. Although it might be nice to see an Australian lurking somewhere in the future, just to raise the profile of football management for other aspiring coaches. Do I not recall Houllier being linked to setting up some football academy in Australia? What's the Houl-Aus link that I'm missing?

On to the REAL football though. I, astro, am an AFC Wimbledon fan. You may, or may not, be familiar with us. With your Palace affections, I assume you know us quite well - funny how I hated Selhurst and all Palace scum right up until the point we got *truly* fucked over. Now I reminisce fondly about seasons at Selhurst and count Palace fans amongst my companions.

Our club was stolen in disgraceful circumstances and shipped to MK (I cannot type the name, for fear of the murderous rage it stirs. I try to not even take trains that go through there. Honestly). Having been a season ticket holder at Wimbledon FC for a number of years, it was the natural progression that I would become a founding supporter of AFC.

But now, it's all good! We currently play in the Rymans Premier League and next week will experience the thrills of play-offs for the first time. How exciting. If we win promotion we will be but two non-league leagues from the league proper (if you see what I mean). We have gates around 2,000-3,000 and a lovely terraced ground that holds a capacity of around 4,500, which we share with fellow non-leaguers Kingstonian.

I will see the last home game of the season and the first of the play-offs but in an extraordinary stroke of calamitous timing I will be in Australia for the rest! Bugger.

Thanks for the info about the A-League. I intend to make an effort start following it as I should have in the past. The linked book looks very interesting, and I will pick it up whilst I'm over. What I would like to write, however, is less a player-based and more of a structure-based tome. Something about the history of football in Australia and in particular the history of Soccer Australia and its many shady characters, dodgy dealings and downright mistakes. It would also look at where the game goes now and try to contribute something positive about how we might continue the development of the game in Australia. There would be quite a deal of investigative work involved, I foresee, but it would be worth it for their is a cracking story to be told. Unfortunately, I think my timing is poor - ideally, I would have got off my arse about 12 months ago and had it out to coincide with the World Cup. I believe it is something which could be of interest both to readers in Australia and football fans abroad. What think you, football thread readers? Would you read it?
 
 
The Falcon
21:46 / 27.04.06
I literally cannot believe the Middlesbrough game I watched tonight. All the old cliches: 'if it was a script, you'd not believe it', all true.

Lesson: do not go three goals up on English clubs in European competition.
 
 
astrojax69
23:08 / 27.04.06
well, at least don't go three goals up against 'borough!!!

fan-farrking-tastic!!! i was shocked when i opened the 'net this morning to see the amazing result. i suspect they'll be hammered in the final after all that... let's hope not. and i'm glad, if surprised, schalke didn't get thru. rekkun the two euro finals should both be crackers. tip 'borough 3-2 and barca 3-1.

with viduka and schwarzer (hopefully), and harry cool each playing major cup finals in the lead up to the wc - we couldn't have scripted much better prep - mebbe zelko getting a run in goals against barca. oooh, it's all so exciting. was just explaining to my colleague on the phone (my work is across two campuses [campii?]) how i will be in wc mode in june, so don't expect too much...


the book sounds great, tt. i'd buy it! you'll have to think of a catchy title...
 
  

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