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Football football. Football football.

 
  

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astrojax69
21:41 / 27.09.05
football in australia:

for hundreds of centuries (all right; a long time, though) football - or soccer, to use the australian vernacular - suffered, as you point out haus, from the curse of ethnic minorities' passion dissuading the broader community from attending, and hence supporting, the local game. as a result, the talent was never properly developed and from the eighties started to drift off to asia, then europe, to play serious football.

a few years ago there was a major push to get the national league into contention with the other codes, but try as they might, the powers that be succumbed to the ethnic interests. the clubs were owned by these ethnic communities, as a rule, and we had the slavic states' ethnic hatred transferred to the country, even though many of the 'fans' had never been to europe. cultural memes of enmity.

finally, two years ago, the goverment stepped in and appointed frank lowy, who owns westfields holdings, and so is one of australia's wealthiest men - and a jew, so no real problems with ethnicity (the german contingent isn't so vocal here! ) - as head of 'soccer australia'. he pushed through radical reforms to the voting system in the national body, giving futsal, junior and women's football significant say in the running of the game. with some former socceroos (australian national team) who were consistent vocal supporters of real change for soccer in this country he established the a-league which finally kicked off just a few weeks ago. the teams for the a-league had to fulfil certain criteria, of cash to the table in the first instance, no clubs owned or run on an ethnic basis and representation across the country.

in its fledgling form, eight teams represent five states & new zealand, with six of the eight being brand new clubs - the other two remain from the old national league from perth and adelaide and were never troubled by ethnic division - each allowed a 'marquee signing' (sydney fc has signed dwight yorke, for instance) and a salary cap for the rest of the squad. a number of near-socceroos and some current squad members play in this new league and the football has already been of a pretty high standard.

the plans are to increase this competition in the coming years to ten then twelve and i think eventually it is hoped up to sixteen teams might exist. i expect this latter number will include more new zealand sides and sth east asian sides.

the major breakthrough for football in this country was formalised just a few days ago when australia was formally admitted to the asian football confederation. we leave oceania to the kiwis...

we seem to have suffered from fifa's allotment of just a half-berth in the world cup finals, necessitating us playing a handful of barely challenging games in oceania, against the likes of american samoa who we once beat 31-0, a world cup record still, i think, before having to play off for the final world cup berth against a fifth place team from asia [we lost to iran infamously before the 98 finals] or sth america [we almost beat argentina, who went on to win the cup! last outing we struggled away against uruguay].

the dilemma with this route is that the team we play is coming off a dozen or twenty hard, real games against serious opposition while we warm up with seven nil drubbings of tiny pacific island states and thus gain little or no match hardness. we are behind the eight ball from the off.

so now we hope and dream and this year in november play once more the fifth placed sth american team - colombia, uruguay or peru seemingly - and we have the vast experience of guus huddink to lead us, he who took sth korea so far last wc. we shall see. he has been in control for only two games, wc qualifiers against samoa.

we play jamaica in our last hit out, in england (anyone know where?) next week, i think, or the one after.

on the broader scheme of things, junior and women's football, and futsal, are burgeoning and the a-league has piqued real interest. where nsl games, even massive clashes, might have scraped in three or four thousand, the a-league attendances have been heartening with twelve, sixteen even eighteen thousand at matches. live tv coverage is not yet tenable given the audience share of the other codes, but the a-league is being played mainly against cricket - the only odd thing, this winter sport in a hot australian summer! it can only grow. australia for the world cup in 2018. we may even host that one...

i'm excited.
 
 
dubmick
08:19 / 28.09.05
Australia are playing Jamaica at Fulham's Craven Cottage.
 
 
astrojax69
21:11 / 28.09.05
cheers! i'll be watching it live in early morning canberra - anyone likely to get along? some rasta-liths, mebbe? i'll keep a look out for you...
 
 
The Falcon
00:47 / 29.09.05
I think youse've got a place in the Asia qualifiers as of next WC, right? Cue some irate Asian federations.

I always feel a bit sorry for Oz when it comes to that final hurdle, the only one that appears to constitute much of a challenge (when was the last time NZ beat you in Oceania groups? I know Scotland, a/k/a 'us', recorded a record 5-2 victory against them in, uh?, '82) Not to be mean, but I think Australia were probably a more worthy team than, say, China last time round, or the UAE in 90.
 
 
astrojax69
01:51 / 29.09.05
s'right. this wc we have struggled through to win the right to meet sth america team no. 5. o, joy. the fifth place asian team and the fourth place central americs team also each play each other. now, i always thought it would be fairer to draw those pairings out of a hat - why do we have to play bloody argentina all the time!!

we beat [of all bloody countries] canada the year 'you' beat us 5-2! since then i think we've succumbed to argentina twice, iran and uruguay... prob'ly others. i choose to forget.

but yes, from next wc, our route to [where is next after germany? have they said yet?] will be through a stringent series of home and away (yea, we'll see some reall football in australia more than once in four years!) competition in asia. then we'll see...
 
 
The Falcon
20:45 / 02.10.05
2010 is S. Africa. 4 years late thanks to an ex-pat Scot representing the Oceania federation and ducking a vote, and generally acting tree-mendously oddly.
 
 
astrojax69
21:50 / 06.10.05
aussie gus is wily - he's picking a few players to go straight to old sydney town for game two rather than get tired out on the long haul to sth america and back to australia; like a home and an away team...

bloody everton. boo! why couldn't moysey have just said, 'ok, go to camp but don't run around getting tired. just sit through the tactics talks...' faark everton. boo! now i'm glad roonaldo went to manyoo.

big weekend of wc qualifiers - will en-galund en-galund en-galund thrash the austrians? will the bankers keep the gastronomes hungry? can the aussies get with the system against the reggae boyz?? too much football is just never enough!!

(on our wonderful sbs tv we have the colombia v chile game sunday morning, then socceroos v jamaica that night, with another s/america qualifier - either colombia v argentina or paraguay v chile - live on thursday morning. wonderful wonderful sbs. i'm excited!)
 
 
astrojax69
21:52 / 09.10.05
five bloody nil! but much much more pleasing is the way australia played a system against the reggae boyz.

admittedly, the opposition were below strength and had little to play for (while the socceroos, also missing a few key personnel - moore, popovic, kewell, lazaridis, a rested cahill, etc - had everything and a very clear and pressing target to play towards) but we kept a system, we moved, we played it out from the back, we were unhurried, we made play and we got mark viduka on the ball!! finally! thank fuck... he is fantastic when he's on form...

i still think we have a bit to worry about at the back, though thwaites was outstanding on debut - a pre-postmodern old fashioned get in hard and get the ball type defender - and while the two stalwarts of our defence, moore and popper, are to come back in, but we needed a little more height at the back.

i must say, i am pleased zelko kalac was 'keeping. he is an outstanding prospect and i really don't understand the rave over schwarzer... anyone else rate mark schwarzer? what am i missing? ok, he's good, but kalac subs for dida at ac milan, f'christ's sake!!

yes, i am very heartened indeed by that performance!


who we play off against from sth america is still anyone's guess! uruguay have argentina at home, but there is no love lost there and the argies would be mighty chuffed to fuck over their neighbour's german aspirations! they're fresh, relaxed and have killers across the park. the colombians looked the business in spurts but looked leaky in defence and lacked cohesion when pressured. the chileans are my preferred opponents, but not to underestimate them! they have class around the squad, capable strikers and a fluid midfield we'll have to work hard to break down.

the permutations as to who we play are almost endless - though they'll end one way or another at thursday lunchtime our time... all three teams play teams who have already qualified - the colombians travel to paraguay [a tough game] andf the chileans host ecuador [who are strong at home, but not so much on their travels and have nothing now to play for than pride]. if urugauy win, we play them. if they and colombia lose and chile win, we'll play them; pray with me for this result...

but i am now confident that guus hiddink has seen something in the socceroos that caught his imagination (hence taking on the job and taking on psv heirarchy over it) and i have visions of us in a quarter final in germany... just like korea. can we do better?? it's getting very tense down under!
 
 
astrojax69
22:46 / 14.10.05
australia plays urugauy - and th games have already started. uruguay are asking fifa to bring the date of the first game forward a day to give the players a longer period to acclimatise to australia on the second leg. conmebol have historically had much influence with fifa and it will be intriguing to see what happens.

dun'matta - we'll hamer 'em and go to germany, playing [and beating] england in the final!
 
 
astrojax69
02:56 / 24.10.05
can anyone tell me what they are putting in the water in wigan and where can i get some?? is it just the australians in the squad [!] or is there a more plausible explanation as to how it is wigan are challenging for europe after having been in [the equivalent] of div three just a few years ago??

will they beat man u & arsenal & liverpool this season? looks like that at the moment...
 
 
astrojax69
19:55 / 06.11.05
[bump]

seems i am alone in the world of football...?

chelski's run came to a shuddering halt at old trafford, dagnabbit - i had hoped palace would do the honours in an fa cup semi, or something... sigh.


and the aussies' moment/s of truth arrive this week with the last wc play-offs. anyone else gone be watching closely to witness the aussies' qualification to the world cup since it was last in germany in 1974? we'll get a 1-1 result in the centenario and a 3-1 win in sydney. you heard it here first.

(and just for kicks, the other four places will be bahrain - over trindad&tobago, switzerland - over turkey, spain - over slovakia, and czech republic - over norway)

 
 
Benny the Ball
20:16 / 06.11.05
I'll be watching, well, keeping an eye out. Hope you get through.
 
 
astrojax69
19:55 / 13.11.05
well, game one in montevideo was a muted version of 'success' - a one nil away defeat.

australia really deserved an away goal and came pretty close a few times (one cracking drive from a set piece by viduka saved sensationally bu the uruguayan 'keeper, dammit!) we outplayed them early and defended bravely for the second half, creating the odd chance on the break but letting a couple of almost costly mistakes upset the flow once or twice. harry cool started - that was a surprise!

so now we face the prospect of having to score twice at home, but i tip that, so why am i soooooo nervous??


...must also gloat, so far all my other tips are well on track, with the spaniards almost guaranteed a berth on the strength of their 5-1 mauling; the swiss had a good two zip home win, but the turks won't lie down at home so much to play for there; the czechs go home with a 1-0 away win to hang on to; and bahrain take an away goal home from the carribean after a 1-1 result snatched by the home team in the last minutes.

so come on aussie come on, come on... etc
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:43 / 15.11.05
Astrojax, is it true that the Socceroos are planning to move groups so that they play offf in Asia rather than against a South American team in future? Is that a FIFA decision, or what?
 
 
astrojax69
20:14 / 15.11.05
all true, haus. we are officially now part of the asian confederation, but playing this world cup as representatives of oceania. we were promised that oceania would receive a full place at the wc finals, then fifa reneged with pressure from the south american confederation, who were to have lost the half spot uruguay won to be playing us tonight [god, i can hardly breathe today. i almost can't bear to watch... just wanna hibernate til next week and peer out to ask 'is it over? did we win?'] conmebol pull weighty strings at fifa

so we approached asia and were accepted, both confederations put a proposal to fifa and it was ratified a couple months ago. so next world cup we'll be in south africa as one of four asian qualifiers! it is a great thing, we think. we have just started a surprisingly healthy national comp - the a-league - which includes nz;and would see this expanding into indonesia, the pacific islands, png and maybe to malaysia and singapore. we would certainly hope to have some strong sides in the asian club championships, dominated at the moment by middle eastern sides. it's all good.

i was thinking i was alone on this board...

o, tonight is going to be excruciating until we win, or lose. then it will be a party to end most other similar sized ones and a hard day concentrating at work tomorrow. or if we lose, it will be deathly silence, a trance journey home and a hard day concentrating at work tomorrow... go us!
 
 
Tabitha Tickletooth
07:56 / 16.11.05
I swore I wouldn't believe but... 1-0 up at half time. Watching a crap SBS feed in London. I think we could be going to Germany and I've been on the verge of tears since we scored. Please let this happen, it would be the greatest thing that has happened to me in my sport-spectating life.
 
 
Benny the Ball
08:53 / 16.11.05
Cricky! I'm watching on BBC website - in the same way that watching ceefax or teletext could be considered watching a game of football.
 
 
The Falcon
13:25 / 16.11.05
Ah, yez did it on pens, I see. Good stuff. Uruguay rarely contribute that much these days.
 
 
dubmick
17:46 / 16.11.05
I'm delighted Australia qualified. Especially after Oceania was given an automatic place and then it was cruely taken off them. I lived there for a year too so I'm picking them as my team for the world cup as Ireland missed out.

Dwight Yorke will be at the World Cup too after T&T overcame Bahrain 1-0 today (2-1 on agg).
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:39 / 16.11.05
Stern John's the man. Turkey had a good go at it though, but the Swiss are also through
 
 
astrojax69
19:14 / 16.11.05
WHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

i'm so happy, i'm so happy... tra-la-la la-laa

huggles to everyone everywhere. o, joy. o, rapture!!


o, it was so hard to watch at times.... then dukes missed, after swatter saved one - we were all going, 'now'd be a good one to save, mark'... and he did! then aloisi cracked in the winner.

d'ya hear that? the 'winner'!! whoooo-hoooooo!!!!

we're off to germany again. watch this space, my friends
 
 
astrojax69
19:26 / 16.11.05
... and i am glad to see i was wrong about bahrain, so my sydney fc team striker dwight yorke can lead his little nation into the cauldron of the world cup finals next year. good for him! withstanding a resilient turkish outfit, the swiss got through as predicted and the other two matches seemed to be relatively comfortable passages for the spaniards and czechs.

four out of five: if it had been one out of five and the socceroos got through - like, i'd have cared?


now, what i want is a draw that has us in a group with italy, togo and ecuador.
 
 
The Falcon
23:17 / 17.11.05
I want you to get England.
 
 
astrojax69
03:21 / 18.11.05
ooh, wouldn't that be fun! i hope we get spain, england and ecuador - three wins, top the group and go on to knock the dutch out at the semi-final (with 'our' guus hiddink installed by then as prime minister) and take the argentinians apart in the final 4-1 as the poms could never do when it counts!! (ok, almost never...)

o, to dream....
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
12:23 / 18.11.05
Swiss midfielder Huggle expects ban after Turkey violence. It just made me laugh...
 
 
A0S
12:39 / 18.11.05
Roy Keane leaves Man U with immediate effect.

Full details here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4449396.stm

Did he jump or was he was he pushed ?

Are the Glazers behind this?
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
13:09 / 18.11.05
Probably a bit o' jump, a little push. I doubt the Glazers had anything directly to do with this... but given Keano's wages, the need to pinch every penny that arose from the Glazer takeover was probably a major issue, as well as Keane and Ferguson's falling out.
After his comments on the team, and everything else, I guess Man U were planning to get rid in the January transfer window; but since he's not going to be really match fit this side of christmas, and possibly a disruptive element to boot, it made financial sense to get rid now.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:29 / 18.11.05
ooh, wouldn't that be fun! i hope we get spain, england and ecuador - three wins, top the group and go on to knock the dutch out at the semi-final (with 'our' guus hiddink installed by then as prime minister) and take the argentinians apart in the final 4-1 as the poms could never do when it counts!! (ok, almost never...)

Bear in mind that you are among the select group of teams Francis Jeffers has scored against. I'm just saying.

On Keane - wages are probably key. By terminating his contract by mutual consent, MU have managed to avoid a massive payout to cancel his contract or having to take merited but highly contentious disciplinary action. Assumign he has not been paid off to go quietly, this means that there will be a better balance sheet and a lower wage bill when United look to replace him.

Having said which, that's the next issue - how do you replace him? The Alan Smith experiment I would say seems to be havng mixed results. It would not only be unfair to espect Darren Fletcher totake up the mantle but also frankly silly. And if we're looking at a balls-out, £20 million+ replacement, will the Glazers trust Ferguson to spend the money, given the success of his recent forays in the transfer market to find the new Roy Keane?
 
 
The Falcon
12:46 / 19.11.05
Well, it's starting to look like Ballack is going to come to MU. Certainly not as much of a sitting midfielder as Keane ostensibly is/was, and won't work as hard, but probably more talented. I imagine Keane will now go to boyhood heroes Celtic.

Franny Jeffers. Oh-ho-ho. When will he play a game for Rangers? (N.B. He has done. Today. Again. Did nothing.)
 
 
astrojax69
19:26 / 20.11.05
maybe you replace keane by restructuring the side so you don't rely on him. there is only one roy keane (thankfully) and many teams are able to play [and often beat man u] without him...

it is a different story when you talk about a key position, rather than a key person. you need to replace a great goalkeeper, if you can. but you don't need to replace roy keane. he's old anyway. and grumpy. he needs huggles, he does.


am further chuffed today, still on my socceroos high (we're going to the world cup. 'strylya are at the world cup!) and now palace have a good away win for me and, if they win one of their two games in hand before anyone else plays, would jump from 13th before yesterday to fourth! go palace, o premiership here we come... tra la la....
 
 
astrojax69
01:07 / 12.12.05
it occurs to me, reading the english premier league table today, that i can't think of any satisfactory reason to place a team higher on the table than another on the basis that your goal difference/ration is better, rather than first going on the number of goals scored column alone.

the methodology used should inspire attacking football and if a team scores more goals than another team on the same no. of points, then that team ought to be afforded precedence in the order of value of their worth of football.

let's face it, imagine the two teams two goals down against opposition - they may play differently: one defends a two goal deficit, the other attacks in search of a result ok, so some days they open up at the back and concede a third, 'nother day they get one consolation goal mebbe... point is, that they lost by one two or three goals shouldn't be necessarily held against them, and in particular shouldn't favour the first team by deafult, either. both sides have scored equal points, so they have had a fair result of wins and draws (i'm thinking 'pool and man u here now), so why should an attacking man u with 25 netted (though a leaky 14 conceded) to 'pool's mere 20 with a meagre defence conceding only 9...?

this doesn't favour goal-scoring teams and it should. i rekkun as a coach i'd bark at my charges for letting in three, but then give them all a hug and a second helping of gatorade for the four they banged in to collect all three points and i'd take that result every game!

[btw don't like man u much and liked 'pool as a kid - with our craig johnson - so this is hard, to put a case to put man u ahead... ]


anyone else see flaws with the distribution of ranking preference in league tables??

i think three points a win was a good move - not sure if it made significant difference to the end result (anyone got any stats on that - would all premiership winners have done so under 2pts a win era?) but opens the way to have concepts like 2pts an away team for a score draw [still both teams get a point each for 0-0]...

(i have a methodology to solve the endless debacle of penalty shoot-outs too, but i'll save that for later!! )
 
 
Benny the Ball
07:14 / 12.12.05
I've always thought that score draws should be worth 2 points and 0-0's worth one - just seems unfair that a team that could have possibly come back from 3-0 down to draw shouldn't be more rewarded.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:25 / 12.12.05
the methodology used should inspire attacking football

Why? Attack is one form of football, and one which, over the course of a season, should if practised well lead to points. Why should one penalise teams for having better defensive players than attackers, or for not being able to afford top-class strikers? I've seen teams who play defence in the face of a strike pairing that cost more than their entire first eleven half-accused of not playing the game properly to support this.
 
 
The Falcon
11:21 / 12.12.05
I'd go further, astro, and just give teams a point for a win and nothing otherwise. It'd certainly encourage attacking football, and is a better idea than making teams of 10 men (thanks, Beckenbauer. You are an idiot.)

So, World Cup, eh? I reckon there's two "groups a' death". Can you select them?
 
 
astrojax69
02:08 / 13.12.05
hey duncan, groups of death... there is a world cup darw thread here and i have outlined the groups and likely results...

actually, stayed with a friend last night and we went through the draw and found out australia will beat england in the world cup final, having run 2nd to brasil in our group!

i like a point for a draw - otherwise, it is the same for a draw as a win and i'd suggest an unbeaten side all year is probably more worthy than a team that loses two thirds of its games... but that is a matter of opinion, i guess.

as for haus' point, yes, good question - why? i think a good defence is a bonus and should be there to stop another side getting goals, and a win, against you. but fifa is trying to encourage attacking football and it is on this premise i address the points of my post... (that said, the all-italian champions league final a couple years ago, ended 0-0 after 120 mins was a fantastic game!)
 
  

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