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House of M

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Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

16:05 / 13.10.05

Well, I'd say that's probably not the only fallout...

As far as results go, she's not over but things don't look good for future appearences of Charles Xavier.

It looks like Wolverine will keep his memories post House of M.

If the current Magneto was brought back by Wanda after Wolverine killed Xornito, as Doc Strange suggests (which while kind of lame is 400 times better than 'Xorn was an imposter') then things don't look too good for him, either.

Quicksilver finally following in the footsteps of his father (although from the cover of Son of M, it looks like he's one of the de-powered).

I read HoM #7 and IC #1 back to back and HoM really floored me in comparison.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

16:14 / 13.10.05

I'm bored with HoM mostly because everything seems so consequenceless, even if there are "No More Mutants", I don't know, they just haven't established a universal coherence. Are they going to cancel every X-Title now? Doubt it.

And, the whole Quickie/Scarlet/Magneto thing just did not engage me. It's one long conversation that started in Avengers Dissassembled that has involved, even with a cast of hundreds, NO ONE ELSE.

Plus, involving a character that can change reality at the drop of a hat is like the superlargest free pass ever. "No More Mutants." Cue Star Labia. Done.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

16:33 / 13.10.05

Cue Star Labia

*snicker*

I don't see how it can be judged as concequenceless when it's not even over to see the concequences. Now, granted, I'm taking a leap of faith here that there will be the hardcore concequences that Bendis has been pitching and if they fail to materialize then I'll be hella pissed; but so far, as a read, it's engaged me.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

17:25 / 13.10.05

I guess it's the detatchment of it. Ostensibly, Ultimate War had consequences to the rest of the Ultimate Universe, but it was, really, a completely seperate Limited Series that someday someone would fit into continuity (X had to happen before Y, etc). House Of M is an Avengers/X-Men crossover Limited Series, with adjacent tie in books that take place in its own pocket universe. Daredevil, in the midst of The Murdock Papers storyline, obviously makes no mention of it, and unrelated MU books probably never will.

Compare that with the events of Infinite Crisis, where they have clear and cogent effects on the entire universe. I guess that's what I mean by consequence. Everything is happening at roughly the same time, and it can be felt all over the entire universe in a very real way.

House Of M, as a stand alone mini-series (and not a company wide crossover, which it really isn't) picked up a bit around the middle, but it's just not knocking me over with its climax. It's all been done in Avengers Dissassembled, to my mind. Not to say that Bendis can't write stand alone Superadventures, as I quite like New Avengers. To me, this is the fundamental difference between Red Earth and Blue Earth. One is focusing on stand alone stories (no matter how vast they appear to be, like House Of M) and some are good some are bad, but that makes the bad ones completely disposable. The other is trying to pull their entire universe of books together and that makes even the bad ones not entirely disposable, because they're filling in their own corner of the universe. I suppose this is why I'm more impressed by Infinite Crisis, whereas the funner parts of House of M were, well, a lot more fun (can't beat Wolvering leaping off a helicarrier). There's nothing really fun about Inifinite Crisis yet (not in the way that I felt Johns' work on Green Lantern was enormously fun) but it's certainly setting the stage for it.

05:39 / 14.10.05

The bit with "no more mutants" really bothered me. Is Mutant English different from ours? Since when does no more mean fewer?

Pretty fuckin dull series. Bendis' output hasn't been impressive for a while and I'm afraid he's turning into Marvel's version of Geoff Johns.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:21 / 14.10.05

Compare that with the events of Infinite Crisis, where they have clear and cogent effects on the entire universe.

I know which one I'd prefer in principle - are we really hawking back to the 'good old days' when every title in a given month was some kind of lame crossover tie-in? I haven't been buying House of M and I'm very grateful that it hasn't been referred to in Daredevil, and not exactly overjoyed about it impacting on the titles I am reading.

Anyway... I don't want to sound like I'm actually defending House of M, because Joe Quesada can't process metaphor - sorry, I mean he doesn't understand that the term 'minority' isn't always about numbers...

11:46 / 14.10.05

"Since when does no more mean fewer?"

I think Dr. Strange's glowing hands in the next panel is meant to imply that he somehow attenuated the effect. Which technically means, BTW, that he saved the day from Wanda AGAIN.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

11:47 / 14.10.05

I guess it all depends on your idea of lame, really. I'd describe hijacking every monthly title and throwing into an alternate universe for a few months for no reason as lame. I'd describe having Superman having no choice but to fight one of the hundreds of thousands of robots that are currently littering the planet as something that's pretty much inevitable.

That's sort of the most important distinction. DC has been trying to pull together their universe organically for several years now and this crossover has sort of inevitably sprung from that, not the other way around.

I personally agree that it's a pretty disasterous business decision, but as someone who can afford to play along, I'm enjoying it.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

11:54 / 14.10.05

198! With a star! I guess 52* was taken.

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:25 / 14.10.05

I guess it all depends on your idea of lame, really. I'd describe hijacking every monthly title and throwing into an alternate universe for a few months for no reason as lame. I'd describe having Superman having no choice but to fight one of the hundreds of thousands of robots that are currently littering the planet as something that's pretty much inevitable.

I'd describe both of them as lame depending on how they were executed! Why is the latter inenvitable? Because it was inevitable that Batman had secretly built a satellite that infects people with nanobots so they become sentinels? Many years ago? Because the JLA wiped his brain?

I honestly can't believe that you're arguing that a return to the "every title a tie-in!" approach to a comics universe is a good thing.

13:31 / 14.10.05

I honestly can't believe that you're arguing that a return to the "every title a tie-in!" approach to a comics universe is a good thing.

What's wrong with ambition? Obviously there are drawbacks -- cost is considerable, and in some hands story coherency can suffer -- but if it's done right, you achieve an effect that no other storytelling medium can reasonably do. That's pretty exciting, really.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

16:24 / 14.10.05

Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's exactly a case of "Every Title A Tie-In!" Every title is related, but not all of them are essential, or even branded as such. I agree that it's one of the cooler things about comics that they can all interrelate, even when they aren't "essential reading". Honestly, you don't need to read Gotham Central to see how the 7 Sins are tearing up Gotham, but I think it's pretty neat that Infinite Crisis is having that kind of impact.

18:11 / 14.10.05

Joe Quesada hinted in a Newsarama interview that there might actually be specific mutants we know who bite it, not just untold thousands of average unknown mutants who don't star in monthly comic books. But maybe I'm reading too much into his comments.

He also had this to say about the much-rumored House of M effect on Peter Parker's life:
---------------------

>> NRAMA: Speaking of 'genies in bottles', you mentioned another that is still out there for you... Any hints, even vague ones to stoke the speculative fires?

If we asked if it had to do with the marital status of a certain wall-crawling hero, what would you say?

JQ: All I would say is that I haven't spoken about this publicly until now and I'm not going to speak about it until it's time. I won't hint or tease with this one because to me this last genie has been the one that's kept me up most at night. People can speculate all they want, I'm not going to say one way or another, you'll know it when you hear about it because it will be huge when it happens.

18:20 / 14.10.05

Christ, Finder. So, he didn't actually say anything, and that he wouldn't say anything about anything until it was time to say it.

Keith, like a scientist

20:16 / 14.10.05

Hopefully, MJ bites it instead of yet another separation or divorce in that silly comic relationship saga.

21:07 / 14.10.05

Perhaps this should get spun off (moo hoo ha ha) into a separate thread, but God, I can't stand the idea that MJ "needs" to be removed from the Spider-Man mythos. It just seems like the most ridiculous sad-fanboy bitching -- "Help, help, I'm emotionally crippled by Spider-Man's loving, supportive relationship! I can't relate to the character unless he's lonely and slightly overweight, like myself! MJ is more of a threat to marriage than all those homosexuals who are ruining it!" Not to be too trolly-jerky about it, but man it bothers me.

23:15 / 14.10.05

Mary Jane Watson-Parker is awesome. Her contributions as a character to the Spider-Man mythos have been exemplary--there's only so many times a dying aunt's disembodied head alone can wrack a man with guilt to the point where he can lift a ton of rubble and the East River off his back. Adding a sexy redhead's disembodied head can only help. LET THE MAN GET LAID. JESUS.

02:26 / 15.10.05

I always liked MJ better than Peter and frankly, would rather read her adventures in four to twelve monthly floppies than I would Spider-Man. If I read Spider-Man.
And they should be drawn and handled radically different, just fuck up continuity-addicts. One in the style of Erik Larsen's MJ, one in Romita and Roy Thomas', maybe a Bagely/Bendis, Andi Watson, or while I'm wishing for winged ponies here... Jill Thompson's 'Mary Jane Watson-Parker's Big Summer Fun Book of Amazingly Astounding Spectacular Non-Webby-Stuff' wherein Peter Parker just stands in the background being a wise-ass and looking vaguely geeky and pretty all at once. Guest-starring Patsy Walker.
There's the only way I could see buying into 'House of M' as productive and useful. Oh, and if it had a ban on Bendis ever again writing a certain diamond-skinned telepath who gets sweaty with Slim Summers. Or, Aunt May as Galactus herald, again. In continuity. Complete with not-Twinkies and a Franklin Richards drawn by Frank Quitely.

Keith, like a scientist

11:28 / 15.10.05

oh, no, just to clarify, I like MJ.

But I'd rather see her die than Marvel to do something they think is shocking and have them separate or divorce. Again. Because they've done that 2 or 3 times, I think.

14:57 / 15.10.05

Instead of bitching, I'd like to accentuate the positive...

Wanda is freakin' nuts! The icy cool lunatic calm she was presented with was really great. Loved the scene with Hawkeye. Liked the big reveal that it was Pietro. Honestly, all of our expectations got out of control (it's Mephisto! it's Morgan Le Fey! it's Xavier!). This was just good simple storytelling.

Wondering if Doc Strange's glowing concentration panel in the final moments is what leaves 198 mutants left instead of 0.

Also wondering if we'll get a new "species" in the MU...the ex-mutants. Will they be humans who champion the mutant cause?

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

15:15 / 15.10.05

I actually kind of like Bendis' Emma. Yeah, the "taking a dump" line seemed odd in New Avengers but I *really* dug the moment in House of M where she gets her memories fixed and is so pissed that she loses her accent for a few seconds before she composes herself. I'll trade that and Bendis' seeming "getting" the S&Em relationships for occasional missteps anyday.

18:14 / 15.10.05

I haven't actually read House of M, but reading about the Decimation stuff, it sounds like awful storytelling, and the idea that Quesada always wanted to reduce the number of mutants is odd considering the fact that Morrison's run was all about the fact that mutation was inevitable and it's humanity who's on the way out.

But more importantly, if you want to clear out a bunch of mutants, is the best way to do it really this alternate world business. This would seem like the perfect excuse to finally do the Days of Future Past stuff for real, and really play out the mutant/human tension, and you end up with the same new status quo. Using alternate worlds as a way to change your characters seems like very poor storytelling. But maybe it plays out better in the story itself.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

19:26 / 15.10.05

Hopefully, MJ bites it instead of yet another separation or divorce in that silly comic relationship saga.

I don't think they are doing either, since "The Other" is supposed to be after House of M, and MJ is there, and they are still together. Although it sounds like they are doing something big with "The Other" which would be nice. I'm not a big fan of Spider-Man living with the Avengers and not havign to struggle for money.

00:00 / 16.10.05

Quote from Joe Quesada at Newsarama:
"The reason so many of us, so many kids, so many people who are ostracized by society either because of race, sexual preference, or beliefs relate and gravitate to X-Men is because of the core idea behind the franchise. Even those of us who may not have been truly ostracized at one point or another feel different during one stage or another in our lives, so in our heads, we are all X-Men."

However, the editorial message I am getting from House of M is:
"Hey, you disenfranchised lot better not start banding together in large numbers and trying to build a workable society, or you'll be pared down to a more manageable number."

Because minorities are only minorities if they never make any progress ever, right?

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

00:07 / 16.10.05

I don't see it that way...

I see it more as "Here's another What If story where Xavier's dream comes true and bad things result so that we can go back to the old status quo."

As much as we would like to see some major changes that move the characters forward, comic publishers have to keep up the "illusion of change" so that people don't get TOO scared off by characters who are selling well chaging too much.

If the X-Men (and mutants) become an accepted majority in the Marvel Universe, they lose the "Hated and persecuted by a world they are sworn to protect" that has been the core of the series. That and through the 80's and 90's there were SO many characters lumped under the "mutant" banner that it didn't mean anything anymore.

00:34 / 16.10.05

If the X-Men (and mutants) become an accepted majority in the Marvel Universe, they lose the "Hated and persecuted by a world they are sworn to protect" that has been the core of the series.

If anything significant changes, something will be lost, but if nothing siginificant changes, why keep publishing the books?

00:36 / 16.10.05

I'm not a big fan of Spider-Man living with the Avengers and not havign to struggle for money.

As I understand it, the New Avengers don't live together, and can't help out its members financially. Tony's too broke.

02:10 / 16.10.05

If the X-Men (and mutants) become an accepted majority in the Marvel Universe, they lose the "Hated and persecuted by a world they are sworn to protect" that has been the core of the series.

Well, for one, I'd argue that despite the "progress" of the Morrison & Whedon runs, mutants where nowhere near becoming an "accepted majority." They just became better organized as a minority culture and slightly less ghettoized.

As much as we would like to see some major changes that move the characters forward, comic publishers have to keep up the "illusion of change" so that people don't get TOO scared off by characters who are selling well chaging too much.

The point I wanted to make in my post is that if Joe Quesada wants there to be fewer mutants in the Marvel Universe to further his editorial/publishing agenda, that's his call. It could possibly even be the right decision, we'll have to see how this plays out.

But it seems silly to justify it under this pretense that it makes it more relatable for "the kids." I mean, if you were 14 and really really identified with the persecuted mutants because NOBODY UNDERSTANDS YOU!!1, would you prefer that the comics starring your role models taught you that

a.) If people like you work together in large numbers, you can slowly start to create change and make the world a better place to live in, or
b.) Your situation will never improve. Just when things are starting to get a tiny bit better, something will come along to muck it up and you'll be back to square one
?

Keith, like a scientist

03:59 / 16.10.05

Speaking of Xavier, where the hell is he? His grave was empty.

00:20 / 23.10.05

everyone is bitching about the whole widdling down of mutants because Grant Morrison heavily-populated them in the Marvel U! Did we all forget how much these MArvel stories delve in misery. Very rarely does even the simplest Marvel story end on positive note. Killing the mutant poulation seemed inevitable! Marvel always works in that level of irony...even Morrison understood that in his New X-Men run! Remember Xavier/Cassandra was making all these leaps and bounds with humanity: Opening the school to the public, outting himself, etc. And then what happens? A riot and Magneto turns NYC into a pretzel! Even Scott voiced it when he said "They really do hate us this much." Nothing stays upbeat with Marvel for too long. Marvel revels in keeping it's characters in unhappy situations! Making more mutants in the MArvel U would cause acceptance! We can't have happiness in our marvel books! This 198 thing falls in line with that! I don't see why everyone is so shocked by this.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

15:29 / 23.10.05

Replace 'shocked' with 'bored' for accuracy.

23:52 / 28.10.05

What could they do with Logan that they haven't already done?

Let him retire, get married, raise some hairy babies. Maybe a nice little consultancy in his spare time. For God's sake, stop writing books about the poor bastard.

If anything significant changes, something will be lost, but if nothing siginificant changes, why keep publishing the books?

The franchises, man! Ain't you read Paty Cockrum's collumn?

02:19 / 29.10.05

For God's sake, stop writing books about the poor bastard.

You know, they probably never will, and this is just crazy talk on my part, but maybe.....maybe X-23 is going to be his replacement for the next-gen Marvel readers, and they can kill off old Wolvie for 7 or 8 months, only to bring him back and shock us all!

Like Hawkeye did...(Sarcastic tone...I wasn't shocked at all, and neither were you!).

And This 198 thing falls in line with that!

Does this have something to do with *52? Pardon me for not knowing, I have had some big tests in the last couple of weeks and am kind of out of the loop. If anyones wants to clue me in, without making everyone else in the room hear something they already know, just PM me.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

18:38 / 29.10.05

Except it appears that Hawkeye is still dead. The whole "resurrection of Hawkeye" thing seemed to be a read herring.

And the *198 is a new series, yes? Scuttlebuy has there only being 198 mutants left after the HoM.

20:55 / 02.11.05

Just read #8. A rant on the actual contents would be pointless, since I've said it before (possibly in other threads), but let me take a moment to scream:

FOUR-PAGE AD INSERT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DOUBLE-PAGE SPREAD WTF!!!!!!! And it's the double-page spread that sets the tone for the entire fucking universe over the next year! What! The! Balls!

Seriously, the "build quality" of the monthly floppies is clearly not even an afterthought over there anymore...

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