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Underground > Comic Books >

7 Soldiers: Zatanna

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14:07 / 06.04.05

sadly still standing in the shadows of alan moore then...

still mightily looking forward to reading this.

15:34 / 06.04.05

I think Shiner was at least 3x as good as paperboy.

That aside, here's a Ryan Sook Z-interview.

Also

-POSSIBLE SPOILERS-

one of the Newsyrama chaps (I assume here) seems to think that Crazy Jane is in Zee's therapy group.

I like this thought.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

18:02 / 06.04.05

-DEFINITE, THEORY-ERADICATING SPOILERS-

That's Misty. Zatanna's new apprentice.

Kick ASS issue and, chronologically, it takes place before #0, for those of you wondering where to put it in your longbox.

19:11 / 06.04.05

It's time to play...Spot the Annotation!

So far, this is what I have:

Consider this...if Zatanna does magic every time she pronounces a word backwards, won't she cause an "oops" every time she says "spoo"?

As others have noted, the redhead in the workshop is Gimmix from issue #0.

Baron Winter has been a fixture in the DC magic books. He's often been associated with a group called the Night Force.

Note, also, that the flashback takes place on the SEVENTH day of the month.

A eight-legged horse is associated with Odin, possibly because it takes four men to carry a coffin (therefore eight legs). It's definitely a death image.

Timothy Ravenwind is an old (pre-Moore) Swamp Thing character, later re-used in the Millar run. He's the "last of the Ravenwind witches".

"Mr. Invincible" is Ibis The Invincible (real name Amentep), an old Fawcett Comics character. Taia is his wife, a princess of Thebes who slept in a trance until the 20th century.

Doctor Terry Thirteen is DC's resident skeptic, despite being a member of the Phantom Stranger's supporting cast for many years. He doesn't believe in magic.

The Imaginal World is similar to the Astral Plane, and comes from Sufi mysticism.

King Ra-Man is probably the post-Crisis Mark Merlin (aka Prince Ra-Man). He's less humanoid than his original model, though.

The wand Ibis carries is called his Ibistick.

The concept of 'Branes was recently brought up in Planetary, as well.

"Space has an edge". The edge of the page? The panel?

"Daathian Frontier". Daath/Da'at is one of the sefiroth of qabala, and symbolizes "Knowledge" or "Gnosis".

Ys is the Breton equivalent of Atlantis/Avalon. I have no referent for the Red God.

Tahuti is Thoth, the Egyptian Ibis god.

The tree may very well be the Tree of Knowledge, from the garden of Eden. The way the realm is described, it may also be Akasha, where the Akashic records are stored. It also resembled the Library of Dream, from Sandman, where all the books that are ever imagined reside.

Sidebar: Seeing an insert about the Matrix game in a Morrison comic is oddly fitting

Gwydion is a magician from Welsh myth, somewhat equivalent to Merlin. He's not nearly as nice, however.

The "Team Gig" Gimmix refers to is likely the group from Seven Soldiers #0.

And that's all I have, right now.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:44 / 06.04.05

Daath's the broken sephira, right? The one in the abyss?

Like this. Would have liked to see more of King Ra-Man; something about him spoke to me.

The cover's interesting; the one rabbit is pinkish and the others are pure-white. Is the pink rabbit the conjured demon lover?

Another thought - Zatanna's description of her "ideal man" drove me to think Gimmix was about to accuse her of a daddy complex; there did seem to be something odd about that, and it also felt a bit too - blatant.

20:48 / 06.04.05

I'm not a competent enough kabbalist to properly describe Daath, but that seems about right.

Good call about the daddy-complex, especially since both Zatara and Gwydion appear as beings shrouded in flame.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

20:58 / 06.04.05

It seemed too overtly Freudian for me, but there you go. "See, my dad wasn't just this great stage magician, he was a sorcerer, a warrior." -- "I imagined a great wizard or ace crime-fighting dude."

I think the use of the word "ace" was part of the tip-off; the slightly Golden Age feel to that. Although, I don't I ever imagined Zatanna using the word "dude."

21:47 / 06.04.05

Well, it certainly makes sense that a girl who gets her kicks saving the world would fall for a guy that gives her that kind of an orgasm. And all girls fall for their fathers. Yeah I said it.

Whip = Zatanna? Take that, Dead Horse!

Soyeahholyshit. Fishnets one is so far the best. Yum Yum Yum. Wasn't there supposed to be something about Amazons and a reality show?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:57 / 06.04.05

Think is this is more the set-up for her being so depressed as to go onto a Reality TV show. Which says something about Reality TV. Don't know if this Misty girl is supposed to be the Vicky mentioned in the solicits, but we'll see. I hope they don't come up with some kind of Slayer-esque "Misty received Zanna's dumped powers" mumbo, in favour of her just learning how to work it. Zatanna should be stunted by her own anxieties; she should have to cleanse herself and find her focus again.

You could make the Zatanna=Whip argument if you want, but I see her for various reasons being =Gimmix. You know, the slight deus ex vibe, even if it's faulty.

23:18 / 06.04.05

It's interesting how competent and confident GIMMIX comes off as in relation to Z.

Great read.

amzing how much "impact" is created in the death scene. & that line... "toy did it again."

very solid homage to A. Moore's treatment on the character so long ago.

01:10 / 07.04.05

So, after reading this, I found myself thinking, "I wonder whether David Letterman's entire viewing audience turned into rabbits, or just the studio audience." And I just fucking love any comic that can invoke phyics & mysticism, and then leave me to silly eight year-old speculations. This one's really fucking fun. And my God, this artist! This guy should work with Grant more often.

Ooh, and a minor addition to the footnotes: Liber Zatarae would of course be (bad?) latin for "The Book of Zatara." I'm not sure why it's not "Libri Zatarae," as Ibis uses verbs in their plural forms, and he's clearly talking about those four books.

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

01:24 / 07.04.05

Zatanna #1 out today! Let the fun begin

No fun for me. Fucking comic shop was shorted by Diamond, hence no Zatanna #1 in my pull list. My shop is generally pretty good, but it gets hit by Diamond's shitty service a lot. Also, the books aren't ready for pick-up until mid-afternoon, which is rather inconvenient. Hmmm...maybe it's time to switch shops.

Urgh. And I was really looking forward to this too.

01:31 / 07.04.05

I'm guessing the solicits were just plain wrong. No reality TV show, no detox on Themiscyra. We'll see in a month.

06:46 / 07.04.05

fantastic, as usual. i only add this in case it amuses someone else: i read this (and klarion #1) at wizard world la. and though i breezed through the zantanna proof, i did notice and enjoy one thing that subsequently got taken out of the final product. in the proof at the dc comics booth, on page 5 at the bottom, the burning image of zantanna's father said something like "constantine, if you don't get her out in time . . ." or whatever. the point is, i thought it was great that it tied zantanna in with john, especially given her later line about her fatal flaw for falling for losers. but i guess editorial didn't want any inkling of vertigo and/or the constantine film in the seven soldiers line. oh well.

12:27 / 07.04.05

So great to see Ibis.

And yeah, Constantine was of course there when her dad got fried. Ah well...but interesting to note that change.

This was terrific. More later.

Nice annotations, Mario.

12:47 / 07.04.05

I thought that was rather good. The other dimensions done in a very Promethea-like way, with just a taste of old Doom Patrol Morrison. It seems a bit odd that she wouldn't realise the man of her dreams was her dad, but I suppose it points to an interesting chain of events where choosing to reinact the American Gothic seance is a symptom of wanting to go the way her dad did. Ummm.. no that's not quite right. Anyone else know what I mean? I'll see if I can refine it.

14:18 / 07.04.05

I do my best. *bow*

miss wonderstarr

15:11 / 07.04.05

From the introduction of Baron Winter, I was looking forward to seeing Constantine in this, too. It's a shame if he's being held distant from the superheroic DCU, where he actually originated -- to the point that he's almost being retconned out of scenes he appeared in.

Anyway, I got a kick out of this book: pacey, sexy, witty. Adding to the annotations: the guy in flames Zatanna calls up is Silver Age hero Johnny Storm, "The Human Torch".

15:18 / 07.04.05

Anyone else interpret the 'man of my dreams' bit as also possibly indicating the fact that they'd all been dreaming of the apocalyptic Sheeda? (i.e. she wasn't specific enough in her spell request)

And too bad it wasn't Crazy Jane in that support group.

15:21 / 07.04.05

Mario:
A eight-legged horse is associated with Odin, possibly because it takes four men to carry a coffin (therefore eight legs). It's definitely a death image.

Of course, it's also a distorted version of the Sheeda's spider-mounts.

cube star from the Brightworld:
It seems a bit odd that she wouldn't realise the man of her dreams was her dad, but I suppose it points to an interesting chain of events where choosing to reinact the American Gothic seance is a symptom of wanting to go the way her dad did.

And the intended parallel may not be between Gwydion and her dad, but between her dad and the other magicians, who died in a similarly fiery manner. Perhaps it'll be retconned so that Gwydion (or some thematic counterpart) actually killed Zatara.

15:52 / 07.04.05

Probably my fave so far - Possibly because the character's got more of an established back story than the others to date, this felt a bit more fleshed-out script-wise, plus nice contrasts between the drab reality of the self-help group, the general cosmic weirdness, and the Freudian material that presumably forms a link between the two.

Bit worried about the teenage sidekick though - what with this and the Newsboy Legion ( what made me want leave the country, the plucky little tykes, ) is George getting broody in his old age ?

Finially, for the notes - is 'Talking Backwards' possibly a reference to the Throwing Muses song 'Counting Backwards,' which I seem to recall was about the singer's experiences in therapy, after she was diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder.

16:03 / 07.04.05

the guy in flames Zatanna calls up is Silver Age hero Johnny Storm, "The Human Torch"

Like "the burning man" automatically means Human Torch anymore. Really. Herald of the Apocalypse + burning + ultimate lover = Promethea + Phoenix. Harold, who I hope I hope I hope they call him, will prolly end up being an ally.

18:14 / 07.04.05

I thought the burning man was Gwydion himself.

I doubt the Human Torch connection, tho. I'd say it's more likely that the "burning man" may be a reference to either the Wicker Man (via Paganism, the Invisibles, and/or British Cinema) or Burning Man (which also has neo-pagan antecedents).

And the talking backwards goes all the way back to the original Zatara stories of the 1940's.

19:00 / 07.04.05

Yeah, I kept hoping/expecting Conners. Brilliant though.

I think the Human Torch thing is one of kovey's jokes?

19:06 / 07.04.05

kovacs jokes?

Oh! That explains the whole 'Morrison is blah and bland'. Yes.

miss wonderstarr

19:55 / 07.04.05

I was being a bit deadpan-jokey and didn't really mean it for the annotations but it does look like the Human Torch -- however, I suppose any drawing of a man on fire would do.

Of course I don't generally think Morrison is blah and bland. Overall he is one of the most exciting creative forces in my life. Which is why I'm disappointed when I feel he produces something substandard.

22:55 / 07.04.05

That's a bit of an ace call above - looking for the man of her dreams, she instead got the man of the dreams she's been having LATELY, about the Sheeda. Didn't make that connection on first read because I am aquatic algae. I was looking for some more significance out of that than the too-natural-to-be-relevant father motivations, and there it is, right under my nose.

23:03 / 07.04.05

Listen, I've made some fucking important contributions to this thread in terms of ideas ( No one can disagree with that, I hope ! )

Why haven't they been acknowledged ?

Or are you all just jealous, frankly, of my mind ?

When I think about it, all I can see is a red mist, and all I can hear is can full of whoop-ass, and wasps, y'know ?

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

23:29 / 07.04.05

I kind of like the idea that Zee was trying to "go the way of her father" - I really need to track down a copy of American Gothic. What issues of Swamp Thing did it run through? It's an interesting inverse to the subtle Electra complex hinted at.

Liked the ideas about the Red God of Ys and how he'll eat us all anyway, but he's frozen so it'll take a REALLY. LONG. TIME. Terry would probably have made it out to be the heat-death of the universe. I kind of liked how he so obviously is encountering whole new realms of looking at the world, but can't handle the idea of referring to it as "Magical," with names like Daath - his failure is partially of imagination but also simply an inability to look at anything as having more than one name...

Spyder Todd 2008

02:36 / 08.04.05

Well, that totally rocked. I love Zatanna, have for ages (she was my favorite character in Books of Magic and I love the Batman episode with her). This is definetely the book in 7 Soliders I'm most excited about.

Slightly off topic, but this is a great cartoon by Paul Dini (!) Staring Zatanna (with a little "help" from a certain extradimensional Witch-Boy we all know). It's cool pop fun, and it's disappointing the masses at large didn't take to it.

03:39 / 08.04.05

What happens if she says poop?

08:15 / 08.04.05

Yes, they've not yet tackled the palindrome issue. May a moody baby doom a yam?

miss wonderstarr

08:31 / 08.04.05

That's quite a cute cartoon linked to above -- and its treatment of Zatanna's backward spells are just as was described on page 1, where she says something apparently senseless and you work out the words afterwards, from their effect.

Another interesting point: three of the four initial Seven Soldiers characters are magic-related, rather than traditional superheroic. That's totally unrepresentative in terms of the proportions within the DCU as a whole, and I wonder if it relates to Morrison's own investment in magic.

Finally, and I am not being facetious. If Morrison is a magician (and I am semi-prepared to believe what he says about magic and its potential) who's trying to create hyper-sigils through his work and cross the boundaries between his fiction and the real world... why can't he prevent his comics from selling badly?

In terms of his grand projects, his work would have more power if it reached more people. For all his talk about GMWord being a golem consuming other companies, of battling demons during illnesses and having the power of King Mob, isn't it all bogus if he can't even make his fiction appeal to, connect to and sell to enough people? It's not like he wanted poor sales on Seaguy and Vimanarama. Wouldn't it be a minimal show of power, on behalf of a magician writer, to reach a broad audience? You'd think he could get his books selling in Borders. As it stands, they don't even seem to fly off the shelves of Comic Showcase.

08:50 / 08.04.05

Kovacs, my good fren, welcome to Barbelith

miss wonderstarr

08:53 / 08.04.05

Are you saying this isn't a comic book question but a magic one?

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