BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Moderation requests & discussion thereof

 
  

Page: 1 ... 7374757677(78)7980818283... 95

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:44 / 18.10.07
I dunno, has anyone actually ever complained about the rhyming summaries? So long as we steer clear of anything that might be spun as defamatory, I don't see a problem.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:55 / 18.10.07
However, perhaps the rhyming summary project is a luxury we can no longer afford when faced with reactions like this.

From what I read the issue wasn't with poetry.

I don't see any reason to stop this rhyming project thing. I'm just a little surprised that (as I'm understanding it) perfectly functional summaries can be replaced without consulting the thread's starter. It might well be that I'm the only person who'd be mildly put out at having to re-set a summary if I thought the new one was a bit naff.

When it comes to threads without summaries, well they're fair game I guess.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
10:57 / 18.10.07
Glenn Medeiros' and Dead Megatron's activities in-thread (Haus)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by my activities in-thread... When I first noticed the F4J topic abstract, I thought that it had been penned by the thread-starter, Iron Man, which lead me to write: If you're seeking to recruit a potential Ant-Man to Fathers for Justice, you should be aware that the character's history of domestic violence might hurt your cause. Then again, given some of the real-life members of FFJ, he'd probably fit right in. As has been pointed out above, this doesn't give offence to anyone but members of F4J, and was intended as a rebuke for what I then thought was a very unsavoury thread.

It then emerged that the F4J abstract was not Iron Man's work, but that of a Mod - Johnny. My subsequent activities in-thread were directed at asking whether this was appropriate behaviour for a Mod. Given this, I really do fail to see the problem, or indeed any common ground between my activities in-thread and those of Dead Megatron.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:44 / 18.10.07
I'm just a little surprised that (as I'm understanding it) perfectly functional summaries can be replaced without consulting the thread's starter.

They aren't, are they? I mean, the thread under discussion was started without a summary, and the rhyming summaries are only ever added to threads without summaries. I suppose an utterly useless summary might be edited - I mean, one with no keywords or relevance to the thread, but I think at that point we usually discuss it in thread or by PM.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:52 / 18.10.07
Glenn Medeiros: Well, that's why I'm waiting to find out what XK, specifically, was eyestabbed by. The treatment in those early posts of parental abandonment and spousal and child abuse - the posts from you, Janean Patience and Dead Megatron - might have been the point of eyestab. I don't know. XK's post in the Policy was some hours after her last post in the Conversation thread, so presumably there was an issue that was still troubling, and I don't know what it is, only that it is not the summary:

While it was not the most thoughtful decision in the world to change the summary to something tying the thread to an unpleasant connection, the mods did not step up and embrace said change by actively posting eye stabby shit. Posters in thread began to.


I'd like to check, in particular, whether there is something I am doing which I can easily stop doing to make her experience of Barbelith more pleasant.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:01 / 18.10.07
I think we might need to retire the term "eye stabby" as covering too broad a range of negative characteristics.
 
 
Evil Scientist
12:22 / 18.10.07
and the rhyming summaries are only ever added to threads without summaries.

Ah, gotcha. The rhyming thing isn't something I'm hugely familiar with.

Carry on.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:51 / 18.10.07
I think we might need to retire the term "eye stabby" as covering too broad a range of negative characteristics.

Possibly. I think it's intended to function a bit like the unlovely "squick" - to denote something that causes unhappiness and discomfort without making a moral judgement about whether it _should_.

So, for example, a content-free nonsense thread in Comic Books was eyestabby, and the correct reaction was to move it to the Conversation. The eyestab was probably exacerbated by the previous trolling of the Comic Books forum by some of the participants, for example here.

Mummy's Pork Sword/ONLY 25 PEOPLE USE THIS SITE/SHUT THIS SITE DOWN NOW/Captain America's aggrieved reaction to the addition of the summary, however unwise its content, was eyestabby, because he was almost certainly doing it, as with much he does on this board, for attention - see his usernames - and because the generally considerate people of Barbelith would try to deal seriously and compassionately with his show of protest, while the trollish members of Barbelith would take it as an opportunity to be trollish. And lo, so it came to pass.
 
 
Ticker
13:03 / 18.10.07
CHaus, thank you for asking for me to clarify. Thanks to the mod in question as well who sent me a very thoughtful PM. That was very kind and I appreciate it.

I had a rolling reaction and my posts in the Convo thread and here reflect my perception shift over time as I tried to understand what others posters' intent was, so I understand if there's confusion over my posts about the issue.

When I spotted the convo thread it had the F4J summary and upon reading the thread I was very upset thinking at first members of the board were joking about or actively supporting the F4J custody fight or some combination thereof. It seemed very much at odds with what I'm used to on Barbelith in terms of people being aware of complex and sometimes painful issues so I asked for clarification in thread. If they were joking about F4J and wanting to join in supporting the group I would have presented reasons why I found it offensive and a questionable group to support in any capacity. It did not seem to be making fun of the group but supporting them.

I may be spoiled by conduct on the board as a whole where I've come to expect respect for others' experience to be weighed before laughs. I've witnessed charged topics treated with humor but usually balanced with awareness. The first reading of the thread was at such odds with this I was shocked and very upset. I resisted the urge to draw comparisons to other social issues because we've discussed that's a minefield in its own right. My first reading was of a group of posters changing their ficsuit names to support or declare themselves F4J, a group that by its actions may draw laughter at first but with serious examination is problematic in how it casts parents engaged in custody battles as good/evil on an absolute level especially with children. The thread's hilarity on the subject shocked me whereas a serious thread on the subject would not have. to be plain it appeared insensitive to the point of offensive.

After my request for clarification in thread it was revealed that was not the intent at all by the original poster but rather a simple ficsuit name change group effort. I was then disturbed that someone would connect an effort, at best fun at worst silly, with a problematic social issue. I was unaware at the time of F4J's history on the board. It struck me as a thoughtless thing to do at the time and my reaction post was stern because I don't find it funny to reposition other people publicly in such a way.

The awfulness that drove me out of the discussion was in thread where the posters began to play with the F4J connection. I had been on the verge of letting go of my shock and annoyance with the summary change and the early posts in thread when posters began to engage in just the way I concerned with.

I feel I may not be explaining myself as well as I would like, so please indulge me as I try to unpack this a bit. I'm not offended by people having a laugh over the fucked up shit in the world or processing their pain with the aid of humor. I was disturbed that in laughing at, and with, the F4J about the seriousness of custody disputes a disservice is done to people and children being impacted in painful ways by it. I was disturbed that on a board where the community tries very hard to make room for each others' experience this topic was not considered worthy of sensitivity.

At that point the entire blame festival around mod behavior seemed frankly asinine as posters were making various in thread jokes in poor taste and blatantly offensive.

I did not at the time feel like soap-boxing in the Convo thread because it was a madhouse of stupid. Simply put it's pretty fucking awful to have someone pull the super-hero card with young children involved in a custody battle as it may automatically translate to them that the complex issue of love and protection can be transmuted to good and evil in tight casting roles, Father vs. Mother. While it is sadly funny on the surface that F4J parades around in costume upon closer examination its goals and methods are anything but funny.

It's not just 'think of the children', it's also hey can you be considerate that custody battles and related issues of stereotyping parents maybe extremely charged for some of the board's readership?

I'm fine if people want to jump around being stupid and/or funny, we know the board is not safe space. I just want to be able to say when I personally am upset by it or call it out of respect for others who maybe hurt by it. I don't expect my voice to be more valued than other posters'.

I hope that clears up what my reaction was about?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:07 / 18.10.07
As the thread starter (and boy do i regret that particular waste of five minutes) I would like to say simply, and finally;

1) It was a joke thread, but one that would hopefully provide some possibly amusing, maybe even creative posts, all in good humour

2) It was hijacked fairly grumpily (but that's my fault for not adding the abstract - my feelings were it might dull the punchline of the initial set-up, so I neglected to do so. My bad); the 'humourous' abstract added by a mod, was tasteles, unfunny, and somewhat hurtful to me, as it made some fairly crass assumptions about me and my intentions.

3) I'm really not bothered which mod it was, and I'm certainly not interested in dragging Aunt Beast over the coals for her 'part' in it, as I respect her as a poster very much.
However, it would be nice if someone showed the slightest courtesy or ounce of respect for me (as someone who's been posting here in a very non-trollish way for years), and apologised.

4) I really didn't want the issue to be hijacked and used by folk like Dead megatron or Jack Fear to fling shit at each other.

5) Most importantly I didn't want th thread to cuse anyone any actual offence, yet that's exactly what happened. So for that I'm sorry - but only to people who I feel have been rightfully aggrieved by it. In particular you, XK.

all in all, not a good day on the 'lith really.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:36 / 18.10.07
However, it would be nice if someone showed the slightest courtesy or ounce of respect for me (as someone who's been posting here in a very non-trollish way for years), and apologised.

Well, on the plus side, I think they did, didn't they? I mean, Biz did, and Aunt Beast did, and when we find out who else voted for the summary change, we're going to ban them. So, that's all good.

Not a great day, though, no. But a salutary lesson on the dangers of one-word opening posts in the Spectacle, and how thngs that are intended to be fun or funny can cause a chunk of unhappiness.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:02 / 18.10.07
Just one last little thing: I have been asked to have patience, instead of "calling MOD ABUSE", which is a fine, reasonable request I fully intent to comply with. However, this is a two way street. If other posters start yelling "shut up" at me, calling me names like "Dead Morontron", and dismiss what I say based, for instance, on (quasi-racist?) comments on my alleged inability to express myself in English (to all of which I think I have been fairly tolerant and patient in the past, for that matter), I might feel cornered and get defensive, which may cause bad, not fully thought through responses. I mean, would you respect people who do not respect you?

Good manners are good for everyone, not just, to paraphrase Sartre, "other people".
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:29 / 18.10.07
I mean, would you respect people who do not respect you?

Well, I'd like to think that I could find it in my heart to respect Captain America or Chuck D, even if they thought I was a dick. Mind you, I also wouldn't devote too much time to seeking their attention, either, once that had been established. Didn't we cover all this off during Birthdaygate?
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:35 / 18.10.07
That goes without saying. I don't try to attract attention anymore. At least, not on purpose. However, sometimes I do hav e opinions on subjects that I want to express. In such cases,even if such opinion is incorrect,uninformed, and I phrase it unproperly, I would like to be told so in a polite, constructive manner. You will see I respond much better and much quicker this way than I would if the response is in the "Shut up, you stupid dick" fashion, see?

And since I already said all I could say on this issue (for good or bad) I hereby move we bury the proverbial hatchet.

Peace?
 
 
Closed for Business Time
20:56 / 18.10.07
Final Nolte peace GO!
 
 
Tsuga
00:36 / 19.10.07
There are not any moderator faqs or guidelines, are there?

That might be helpful, just to create some more codification of what should be somewhat standardized moderator actions. Like, if there's no summary, add one— if you feel you can, then the long heritage of adding rhyming summaries is always an option. But either way, be careful when you do for this and that reason, &c. This may be a helpful resource for moderators just to keep a few things like the most recent unpleasantness from happening. Or, maybe, it would give some people the chance to say, "SEE," pointing at the guidelines, "it says x and you did y, you power vampire."



Or maybe there are guidelines and I've not seen them.
 
 
HCE
03:09 / 19.10.07
Maybe we could get robots for moderators! And we could put nukes in their chests that we could set off by remote control in case they ever went rogue. Everybody could chip in five bucks via paypal toward the ROBOMOD fund.

Until we have enough saved up, I guess we could just have a thread where people who find mod actions objectionable could explain why, and find out what the rationale behind those actions was.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
05:36 / 19.10.07
But what if there was a flaw in the programming, kangarou? What if those Robomods fell in love? What if their nuke-hearts burst all on their own, without our demanding it?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:36 / 19.10.07
Maybe we could get robots for moderators! And we could put nukes in their chests that we could set off by remote control in case they ever went rogue.

Now the ball's in Evil Scientist's court.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:12 / 19.10.07
I am regrettably apart from the comic a page of which I scanned into the Avengers thread, in which Luke Cage is hired by Doctor Doom to fight African-American Latverian emigré robots. I wasn't feeling that absence until now.
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
10:05 / 19.10.07
If other posters start yelling "shut up" at me, calling me names like "Dead Morontron", and dismiss what I say based, for instance, on (quasi-racist?) comments on my alleged inability to express myself in English (to all of which I think I have been fairly tolerant and patient in the past, for that matter), I might feel cornered and get defensive

Just for the record, I don't have any, quasi-racist or otherwise, feelings towards your ability to express yourself in English. I called you a moron because of your grandstanding in the avengers thread, esp towards Aunt Beast - You fucked up real big this time, and byu (sic) being so defensive you are only making it worse.. A level of melodrama I'd expect from, perhaps, Hollyoaks. And then you're frankly ludicrus rape analogy, which I think everyone here has agreed was insulting.

Please don't bandy the "me-no-speaking-the-lingo" card around when you can clearly converse in english with ease. Just engage your brain before you fumble around in another thread. I would have thought that speaking in a second language would mean you had to think more before opening your mouth, not less.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
10:48 / 19.10.07
Jawsus/Mathlete: That's a fair point, but I'd suggest that if you want to demonstrate that you are not prejudiced aginst people who do not speak English as a first language, you avoid using comedy pidgin like "me-no-speaking-the-lingo". It tends to undermine your case a bit.
 
 
Dead Megatron
10:51 / 19.10.07
Plus, as I've told J. via PM, I wansn't talking about him at all with the language-barrier comment. And I do find claims of language-barrier as reason as to why a poster has "inferior ability to discourse" ans shoulde therefore be dismissed to be racist, yes. For the record.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:00 / 19.10.07
As you know, racism is very serious stuff - it can get you banned from Barbelith, although not nearly as much as you'd think. Likewise, accusing somebody of racism is a very serious issue. As such, I'd like to establish what we're talking about here. DM, could you explain about whom you are talking, and where these racist incidents took place?
 
 
Dead Megatron
11:13 / 19.10.07
I'm not so much accusing anyone of racism as I am making a point that I find such comments displeasant in the hopes they will stop from now on.

And I'm talking about you, Haus, who made snarky comments on my ability to express myself in English several times in the past. I don't think you are racist, I'm warning you such comments make me feel unconfortable. So, please stop.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:25 / 19.10.07
If someone has "made snarky comments several times in the past," it should be easy enough to demonstrate this. Racism is a very serious accusation and you need to support it with evidence.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:59 / 19.10.07
And I do find claims of language-barrier as reason as to why a poster has "inferior ability to discourse" ans shoulde therefore be dismissed to be racist, yes.

Well, first up I disagree that this has happened. There have certainly been situations in which the language barrier has been cited as a reason why it has been difficult for two or more members to have a discussion. There was a chap called LouiseMichel - lovely fellow, but often had trouble following conversations due to his limited English, and occasionally got confused. The problems he had with the discourse were not a reason to dismiss him, and were never advanced as such, to my knowledge, but they certainly needed to be acknowledged as an issue at times.

Another example: 33, a native English speaker, had some problems which made it difficult for him to respond appropriately or at times comprehensibly to people. This was not a language issue per se, but it was clearly not something that it was possible to ignore. There is a related discussion here on how we deal with disability and usability issues, although it sort of petered out in the face of the impossibility of technical changes to the board.

So,I think "has communication issues", "has communication issues due to language" and "should be dismissed" are very different things. I may at some point have suggested that the problems you have may in part be due to a language issue, but, believe me, if I did it was almost certainly as a mitigating circumstance, since the other possible reasons for your behaviour reflected far less well on you. That's just a guess, of course, because I don't know to what sort of things you may be referring.
 
 
The Falcon
16:55 / 19.10.07
If someone has "made snarky comments several times in the past," it should be easy enough to demonstrate this. Racism is a very serious accusation and you need to support it with evidence.

Yes, this has not actually happened at all, DM. I think I know exactly the point you're attempting to refer to, and we dealt with it at the time. But, you know, feel free to dig up any contrary findings - I'm quite sure you won't.
 
 
*
21:21 / 19.10.07
DM, I seem to recall having postulated at some point that language differences were causing a communication obstacle between you and someone/s else. I wouldn't make that suggestion now; you seem more fluent to me now than you did then. Maybe practice has helped, or maybe I'm less prejudiced now than I used to be.

From what I've seen, Haus' objections to some of the things you've done and said on the board are apart from your language abilities. I can't speak to the core of his irritations with you because at least lately I haven't shared them. It would be great to see the two of you work things out, and I don't think that will happen until you're able to agree on why you're disagreeing.

I regret any hurt I've caused you by commenting on your skill with English. Most of the time, I'm driven by the desire to help people understand each other better. My skill with any of my non-native languages is really negligible, so if I'm having a discussion with someone in French, I appreciate if people point out to me where I'm misunderstanding or being misunderstood.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:05 / 19.10.07
I can't speak to the core of his irritations with you because at least lately I haven't shared them.

Well, perhaps you can share my feelings of irritation at having unsubstantiated accusations of "quasi-racist" commentary laid at my door. There are times when a desire to be reasonable can make one quite unreasonable, Zippid. Otherwise, I don't think I see any particular evidence of irritation on my part. I suggested in the AVENGERS ASSEMBLE thread that it would be a good idea for him to shut up. I stand by that suggestion, and, looking at what has ensued, feel that it was remarkably good advice. The reason why it was good advice was outlined subesequently:

However, for the record, I don't think that the way you compose or express your thoughts is generally productive - this being a case in point - your understanding of what is actually going on is often sketchy, and you spend rather more time talking about rape than is strictly speaking healthy. I would address myself to all of those issues before seeking to save Barbelith from itself - the history of people wordbombing the Policy to save us from ourselves is not generally a happy one.

I don't see this as indicative of irritation, but rather of the purest altruism. I am trying to help Dead Megatron. I am not sure why it was appropriate to ascribe my actions to irritation, although it certainly beats ascribing them to racism, however quickly disavowed.
 
 
*
22:57 / 19.10.07
There are times when a desire to be reasonable can make one quite unreasonable, Zippid.

You're right. I'm looking for alternatives to my mode of waffling between shouty arsewipe and fluffy nincompoop, and lately feel like refraining from Barbelith altogether may be the only other option. It is not helping me be my very shiniest self, and for every occasion on which I fall short of that, I sincerely apologize.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
13:51 / 20.10.07
I was just knocking up a new thread for comics listing printing errors I've come across in TPBs I own, (missing pages, dialogue duplicated across pages or missing entirely etc.) which was going to include links to .jpgs of the missing or corrected pages.

Just thought I'd ask if that would cause any problems. One the one hand, it is copyrighted material, but it's copyrighted material that I and others have paid actual cash for and received in a state that can only be described as broken.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:09 / 20.10.07
I actually meant me, Zippid - because I had to ask DM to substantiate his statement, rather than just telling him to shut up. I'd be sorry to see you leave Barbelith, and generally think you strike a very successful balance in your posts. In truth, I misspoke - there is no onus on you to share my irritation, if irritation it be, but I would hope you can understand it, perhaps by an empathic substitution - considering how you would feel if somebody stated that you made racist statements, and then declined to support with evidence. That said, there's no expectation on you to do so, or to act on that understanding in any particular way.
 
 
*
17:40 / 20.10.07
Haus, thank you for that clarification and your kind words. I wasn't saying that as an opener for storming off or even quietly slinking off Barbelith, I'm just still wrestling with who I am in the real world and who I am here, and who I want to be in the real world and what portion of that I can also be here. Maybe one day I will feel like I need to take an indefinite hiatus, but it's not really about Barbelith. My feelings about my behavior are just so freekin complicated right now.

Sorry to derail the thread for a bit. In sum: DM, please clarify, substantiate, etc. If you find that what you believed about Haus' motives isn't true, I hope you'll act accordingly. And Haus, I believe, although my view of the board isn't comprehensive, that DM's behavior has improved significantly during the time he's been here, except with respect to you. I fully understand your anger at this interaction in particular. Maybe if the two of you can sort out your history, you can both have more fun on the boards.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:08 / 20.10.07
And Haus, I believe, although my view of the board isn't comprehensive, that DM's behavior has improved significantly during the time he's been here, except with respect to you. I fully understand your anger at this interaction in particular. Maybe if the two of you can sort out your history, you can both have more fun on the boards

I've worked pretty hard to help him to improve his behaviour - see the "Bullying on Barbelith" thread, in particular. In general, I feel that encouraging good behaviour is going fairly well. On t'other hand, we are here because of posts like this, which do not involve me at all. So, your mileage may indeed vary.

However, I must ask you to consider the utility of ascribing emotional states to me - irritation is probably closer to the mark than anger, but in either case it seems unnecessary - and also not to assume that there has been any significant failure to "sort out [our] history" so far. I take actions in the present based on experience of the past and on what is happening currently. What Dead Megatron does is largely his business, but I imagine a similar process is in place. I don't see what is happening here as symptomatic of a failure to sort out our history, whatever that may be - I see it as a specific instance in which Dead Megatron has made a statement about past events which I do not believe is supported by history, which itself spun out of a rather ill-judged intervention to take Mordant Carnival to task for her autocratic behaviour. Which he did in the wake of Glenn Medeiros, who was himself continuing a running theme of attacks on "high-profile posters" in general, and in this case Mordant Carnival in particular, begun around here and most recently perpetuated here, before the AVENGERS ASSEMBLE farrago.
 
  

Page: 1 ... 7374757677(78)7980818283... 95

 
  
Add Your Reply