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Moderation requests & discussion thereof

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
09:58 / 07.06.07
I don't think we need to have the debate about the sexualisation of the images here necessarily, do we? Whatever our own views, we just need to acknowledge that having a policy of hiding sexualised images behind tags and then presenting two images and asking a question about to what degree they are sexualised requires us to hide either neither or both. I'm sorry I didn't think of this when the original suggestion was made (of course neither image was behind a tag originally). I'd suggest that the solution if for an AF&D mod to put them both behind tags or undo the existing tag - probably the former.
 
 
Saturn's nod
09:59 / 07.06.07
I'm not sure I can help with that decision, but I can provide a little more about my thinking in case it helps. I'm happy as it stands: NSFW warning in the thread topic, and the FHM image hidden. I am using a work computer, and I'd feel uneasy about following that discussion if the FHM cover or worse were inthread. Whilst the FHM image is behind spoiler tags, I feel I can access that thread without feeling I'm in danger of violating professional standards, because I am not going to look at that image from this computer - though I can see you may argue this means I cannot honestly contribute to the discussion.

I think we have to navigate all the time on intuitive sense of boundaries, especially when in comes to NSFW-type decisions. If it was being argued that someone felt unable to access the thread because a vogue cover would violate their professional code of conduct, I could see an argument for hiding the Vogue cover as well. I don't think anyone's making that argument though, and as Flyboy points out the nature the discussion requires Vogue covers to be viewed. I'm inclined to argue that it does not however require overtly sexualised images in thread as well.

Though this does presuppose the argument to some extent, I don't think it's difficult to agree that there is a genuine difference from this analogy: If someone had a copy of Vogue in the office, is anyone being harassed? I think it's unlikely that sexual harassment would occur from Vogue cover images, and that this points to the genuine differences that exist. It's clear however that sexualised images of a certain kind, like the FHM cover, clearly could constitute sexual harassment* and could be used as evidence of such at disciplinary proceedings. So people are in general able to agree a difference, even though that judgement precedes and may take a long while to meet our collective ability to construct a precise definition of the difference.

*in a work context
 
 
Olulabelle
10:05 / 07.06.07
Flyboy, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to have a debate about it, I was just trying to explain why I thought they should both be tagged.

Saturn's nod, I don't feel I can reply to you here precisely because of Flyboy's point about the location of discussion, but I would like to. I don't know where to put it though.
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:09 / 07.06.07
I'd say put it in either place with generous cross links, it's what html's good at.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:11 / 07.06.07
Well - at this point I think the best way to proceed is to hide the Vogue cover, in the sense that while it may not be necessary in a "what is the bare minimum Barbelith should do to stop being accidentally getting fired?" sense, it's helpful in a "what will help the thread progress without people either getting fired or feeling that the argument is being prejudiced by the presentation of these two images" sense. It doesn't necessarily mean a non-negotiable precedent has been set.
 
 
Saturn's nod
10:24 / 07.06.07
Yup, point. I've put requests in to 1) hide both images behind spoiler tags, marked 'Vogue cover' and 'FHM cover'; 2) put "PICS potentially NSFW" in the thread title and summary.
 
 
Quantum
15:46 / 07.06.07
Could a convo mod take out the stray pointy bracket so the pic is the right size here? Thanks.
 
 
grant
16:18 / 07.06.07
The Vogue spoiler tags don't actually work. I'm not a mod there so I can't fix the code, but I bet it's something to do with that Element ID business.
 
 
Saturn's nod
17:20 / 07.06.07
Thanks grant; yes a typo in the id, I think, if it works when the mod has been voted through.

Next board can we have preview for modifications and edits please?
 
 
Feverfew
18:44 / 08.06.07
I'm not sure if this merits discussion, but then again I'm not sure if it's going to go anywhere, or if the whole 'nuking from orbit' thing is an improportionate response, but I'm not impressed with the

"Look y'all! X is great!

"But why is X great?

"Don't question me! Look it up on google! DUH!

"Well, great. But could you tell us more about him?

"Well, I could... But wouldn't you rather look it up on Youtube? He's Canadian, dontchaknow"

Line of conversation.

I'm fairly aware I'm pissing into the wind here, but has anybody else formulated a plan of action when this has happened previously?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:14 / 09.06.07
I had tried to delete my freemason post in conversation, but the topic stayed with my original post deleted. I think that actually worked out beautifully. Made me smiley.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
05:23 / 14.06.07
People all have the very best intentions in replying to my Conversation thread "Beautiful Victory", but I'd intended it as in large part a useful reference and inspiration for others going through a bad situation, not a glorious platform for myself ~ I feel now like I'm standing there accepting applause and praise for just surviving OK, and again though I'm very grateful to everyone, it makes me feel a bit undeserving and uncomfortable.

Could it be locked and treated more as an archived case? All I did was keep on keeping on.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:59 / 14.06.07
I've put in the request.
 
 
Quantum
13:00 / 16.06.07
Can a book mod delete the spare grotesque thread?
here
 
 
Olulabelle
09:19 / 17.06.07
Regarding Miss Wonderstarr's thread, I don't think it should be locked. There is a record of all the posts in the Miserable Thread and whilst I agree it's interesting to combine all the posts Miss Wonderstarr made into a new thread, it shouldn't just be a personal archive. That could surely be done in a private word document? If it's a thread that belongs on Barbelith then people should be able to reply to it. If not, then it should exist in another format, not on a message board.

I just wanted to say I am one of the people who has been following the story in the miserable threads and my disagreeing with the lock has nothing to do with content. it's just about using Barbelith as a personal archive that no-one else can interact with, really.
 
 
matthew.
14:08 / 20.06.07
This thread has a typo in the title. Can we fix it? It's "fiction". Simple typo, hopefully simple fix. Thanks, guys.
 
 
matthew.
17:43 / 20.06.07
That was really speedy. Thanks, guys!
 
 
Spaniel
18:32 / 20.06.07
Could a Film mod hidey hide the bulk of this spoilery post?

Chuz.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:46 / 20.06.07
In the queue now.

Maybe.

HELLO TOM WE NEED A 'PREVIEW EDIT' BUTTON THANKYOU BYE
 
 
Olulabelle
19:05 / 20.06.07
Hello Tom we do.

Is no-one engaging with what I said then?
 
 
Char Aina
20:39 / 20.06.07
If it's a thread that belongs on Barbelith then people should be able to reply to it.

I agree in this case, but would be wary of making that a rule. Some threads may well need to be archives with option to reply.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:58 / 20.06.07
Do you mean "without", d'mandem?

I'm not entirely sure what is achieved by vetoing the lock, really. The content is all available to be replied to on the Miserable Thread, if necessary. Sometimes we do things on compassionate grounds, and personally I'd probably file that request under such grounds.
 
 
Char Aina
01:20 / 21.06.07
Yes, sorry. My post seems to have dropped a couple of letters, namely 'n' and 'o'.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:02 / 21.06.07
I was the one that put forward the lock that Miss Wonderstarr asked for and that MMM disagrees with. I have no strong opinion either way and did it because MW asked for it. But we lock threads all the time, to stop people from exercising their right to talk in thread, as MW reported feeling embarrassed by the praise ze was getting in the thread, would MMM rather we delete it instead?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
09:27 / 21.06.07
Given that you have to view the first page of every thread before you can skip to the last, and given that even though it was responded to and discussed, the matter was resolved a long long long long time ago...

...can we get rid of the "twattier" in the first post of the Barbannoy thread? It smacks me across the eyes every time I open the thread to read it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:34 / 21.06.07
I very much doubt it, unless the person in question chooses to, and even then probably not, because it forms a necessary sense unit of the response.

^^^HAUS^^^xx
 
 
Closed for Business Time
09:40 / 21.06.07
Haus, shouldn't your recent form as wielder of banhammers warrant something like this?
____
\m/(HAUS)\m/

You're so fucking metal you.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:13 / 21.06.07
I've just disagreed the request to lock the Ron Paul thread - there is still some discussion of this candidate's politics and policies going on, and I don't see why that needs to be prevented.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:16 / 21.06.07
I missed the request, but agree with Fly about why he disagreed it.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:57 / 21.06.07
I have no problem with it being disagreed, but would ask that people in the thread try to restrict themselves to the subject at hand, we now have another thread for discussing the person who started the thread.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:12 / 21.06.07
Yeah, that seems eminently reasonable to me.
 
 
petunia
14:45 / 21.06.07
Haus - I had understood matt's request to be to remove the word 'twattier', rather than the actual dissaproval of sigs itself.

As 'twat' is a slang term for 'vagina', i imagine he was finding its use in a derogative sense to be the grating issue. I also imagine other members of the board might agree.

Do you think that Boboss would refuse to alter the word, or is there a technical issue with altering an old post?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:06 / 21.06.07
Yes, .trampetunia. I understood the request.

If Boboss was happy to alter the word "twattier" in his post, he could put in a moderator request, obviously. How you would get Bitchiekittie, who uses the same word in the next line down, to ask to moderate it, I know not, since she is no longer on Barbelith. So, you'd have to get a moderator to do that. I imagine one of the Convo moderators might be talked into doing it - they're a pretty mixed-ability group. Would that then set the precedent for any word or phrase I or anyone else do not like in the text of a post to Barbelith being subject to alteration according to my personal taste? Or might we feel that Matt's eye-stabby is perhaps a necessary evil, or a lesson in the difference between want and get, in exchange for the board continuing over time to make narrative sense?
 
 
petunia
15:25 / 21.06.07
Yes, .trampetunia. I understood the request.

I'd somehow assumed your objection was on the grounds that we can't delete a post just cos it's annoying to see the same post Every Time. Forgive me, my mind is lazy today.

You make a good point about editing past posts based on preference. I think my only objections would be:

- There is a similar precedent set in alteration of thread titles. From memory, the 'Banksy' thread had the derogatory usage of the word 'whore' removed from its title. I don't know if there are any other examples of this.

- The barbannoy thread is one of the most frequently-used threads on barbelith. The post in question is the very first post and is shown every single time somebody enters the thread. It could be argued that this level of prominence in the consciousness of a regular poster makes it a worthwhile effort to edit the word. Dead or Dormant threads are more obviously 'museum pieces', which makes it easier to see them as part of an older Barbelith. In a Live thread, it seems the first post should represent the current Barbelith, in the same way that thread titles are more prominent and thus representative.

Obviously, these are slightly fuzzy objections that suffer from lack of a line to be drawn. I dunno.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:38 / 21.06.07
We have always observed a pretty firm distinction between changing titles, which one has no choice but to look at, and page content, which one does. If your page content is regularly and horribly unacceptable, you will be told off, your posts may be deleted and then you may be banned. However, you will not have your content, generally, altered without your consent.

If Matt, or others, are finding the presence of the word eye-slappy, fortunately there is a workaround - one can simply enter in one's browser navigation bar the topic number (in this case 7, from memory) followed by, say, /from/35 - which will open the thread on the second page.
 
  

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