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Underground > Policy & Help >

What exactly does get you banned on Barbelith?

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23:51 / 16.07.06

Would the same principle apply if a black poster wanted to use n***** in a username? Or if I wanted to use "yid"?

yes.

the difficulty, i suppose, would be in confirming that you are in fact black or jewish.

if you consistently presented yourself as either i would be inclined to accept your using that as your ID.
i might get a twinge of eye twitchery every time i saw it, but i dont really think it would be fair to expect you not to.

00:04 / 17.07.06

I'm afraid this one really does have the stink of double standards about it. Unless I've missed something, Båmbling has made some serious attempts to disassociate hirself from previous actions and posts on the board, and has contributed a fair amount to a variety of threads across the board since.

So why single hir out for this when there are, as has already been pointed out, other similar usernames currently in action and ones that have been used previously without comment? Familiarity? The fact that those others have real-life links to large sections of the Barbelith community?

If Tom acts on this, he has to act where those other usernames are concerned. Alternatively, he leaves them all alone. Barbelith cannot be inconsistent on this stuff.

00:12 / 17.07.06

I know this is offtopic and a bit rubbish of me, but here's a table conjugating some gender-neutral pronouns. I'm seeing people want to use them, which is great, and having some confusion about how they work, which is easily fixed.

Thanks for doing that, id. I'm not a massive fan, myself, but it is pretty simple: the board's form is s/he=ze, him/her=hir + then add whatever suffix (possessive, transitive, etc. - e,g, ze's - ze has, ze is - hirs, hirself, etc.) you need. Loads of people have been getting this wrong recently, and it grates me.

00:15 / 17.07.06

If Tom acts on this, he has to act where those other usernames are concerned. Alternatively, he leaves them all alone. Barbelith cannot be inconsistent on this stuff.

I very much doubt he will. Afaik, only Sensitive has had an enforced name change in the history of B'lith, and perhaps Lady has rectified hir (see!) error and posted another pm along the lines of 'Never mind, got a bit carried away.'

ONLY NICE THINGS

00:18 / 17.07.06

There's certainly precedent on "bitch". "Homo" less so, but if it's adjudged acceptable I certainly wouldn't want that to make it acceptable also to have usernames using other pejorative terms based on race, religion or sexuality.

00:20 / 17.07.06

we should probably wait until lady gets back to tell us how ze's thinking since, hey.
it is sunday, and ze might not see any of the responses to hir attempts to make the board more comfortable until well into tomorrow.

i don't think i'll be saying anymore to hir posts until ze gives a little feedback.

00:26 / 17.07.06

so haus,
do you think the other member's right not to read those words over rides an individual's right to express hir own identity as ze wishes?

when, exactly?

can i call myself jocksik mcfenscum, for example?

00:29 / 17.07.06

I don't really know that that will be useful, toksik. Basically we'll have another session of infighting, self-justification and chucking about blame (not saying you), particularly given priors, and Lady will just feel bad, I'd imagine.

I don't think there's any particular bad intent here; ze was maybe a bit waspish and rulebound for my liking, but you know. Nothing's happened, really. Nothing's - imho - very likely to happen as a result.

00:39 / 17.07.06

There's certainly precedent on "bitch". "Homo" less so, but if it's adjudged acceptable I certainly wouldn't want that to make it acceptable also to have usernames using other pejorative terms based on race, religion or sexuality.

Well, are we going to set some rules? 'Rapist' is right out, and I think a vast majority can get behind that without terribly much explanation being necessary. Other than that, we're not going to fix rules - we never really do, and when certain members get a whiff of one they tend to get carried away - and it'll continue to be on a case-by-case basis, just as my thread suggesting utilising a hatespeech ban resolved itself back to point zero. That's my bold prediction, anyhow.

In the case of a member of a specific race, religion or sexuality wishing to reclaim pejoratives, as part of their username, I'd feel utterly ridiculous trying to tell them they couldn't. Of course, we never know for certain that someone is what they say they is on the internets so - again, it'll be case-by-case.

05:48 / 17.07.06

Dragon's latest post in the Headshop draws a nice immigration = rape analogy. Given the inability to anaswer or engage with anyone else's posts, surely a candiate for the boot?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

05:51 / 17.07.06

OK, If I could I'd be changing my name to Our Red-Cheeked Lady... PM of apology on it's way to Bambling, sleep and the perspective it brings are wonderful things...

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:27 / 17.07.06

can i call myself jocksik mcfenscum, for example?

Well, probably, yes, and I think by doing so you would demonstrate the substantive difference - there isn't really anything that offensive there. Contrast that with somebody who might want to read Barbelith but who has negative experiences of being racially abused finding the word with which he or she was abused on a page over and over again.

First up, how do you explain before that person leaves in disgust that it's OK, the other person is entitled to use the term because they claim that they belong to the group which would be on the receiving end of it as an insult? We've already had at least one case on Barbelith of somebody claiming to belong to a minority group dishonestly while throwing around racist terminology, and I don't immediately see where our safeguard is there. So, that's a complication, and probably one where we have to rely to an extent on people not being idiots. When people are idiots, we'll deal with that. As Falconer says, it's probably a case by case thing.

Now, there _are_ probably questions about whether we're more sensitive to race than to gender or sexuality around here, which maybe needs to be explored (also, LMPB was a female-identifying suit, which is also worth a thought).

10:50 / 17.07.06

Contrast that with somebody who might want to read Barbelith but who has negative experiences of being racially abused finding the word with which he or she was abused on a page over and over again.

Fair point. From what I witnessed in my youth, and in the workplace, words like fat & stupid appeared to cause as many problems as racial insults - is foolish fat finger going to have to change his name aswell?

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:09 / 17.07.06

I always hated it when they called me reductio ad absurdum in the showers after games.

11:32 / 17.07.06

Good job I went with Proinsias, there was a latin catchphrase high up the list.

13:51 / 17.07.06

Dragon's latest post in the Headshop draws a nice immigration = rape analogy. Given the inability to anaswer or engage with anyone else's posts, surely a candiate for the boot?

I've stuck the wee jobby on Ignore since, but not before discovering his views on the subject are utterly repulsive. Think you may be right.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:13 / 17.07.06

Hmmm... problem is, if we start banning people for being ignorant, prejudiced and haviing no interest in other people's views... well, actually I don't see a downside on that one. However, where do you want to stop? Would we have bounced Shadowsax the moment he said "If you don't agree with me then you're wrong"? Dead Megatron over bellhooksgate? 33 over t3h gayz? Secret Goldfish over... well, whatever he's getting confused and upset about on television this time round? What is it about what dragon is saying, loathsome and irritating though it is, and how he's saying it, that marks it out as different?

14:17 / 17.07.06

Well, I don't really draw a line 'twixt "I'm against 'illegals' - bullshit spurious reasoning follows" and, you know, actual racism. Not just in this case.

14:18 / 17.07.06

What is it about what dragon is saying, loathsome and irritating though it is, and how he's saying it, that marks it out as different?

Nothing really, I just think my fuse is a lot shorter these days. However, my bad temper should not necessairily dictate board policy. Anyone else got a view?

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:19 / 17.07.06

Well, we're on weasel words at that point - it's more like Shadowsax's piling-on of unpleasant views while carefully not using hate speech/disclaiming the nastiest as "some might think"... so, how long do we tolerate that?

14:29 / 17.07.06

Personally I am keeping an eye on several posters at the moment across several fora, until they either get bored and go away or step over the line into trollish rantings. It's borderline at the moment for several.
I suppose there is the third option that they may shape up and become decent posters but I hold slim hopes for that.

Jawsus-son Starship

16:31 / 17.07.06

Did anyone PM Dragon to tell him he's being discussed over here? Also, this isn't really comparable to the ShadowSax stuff. One comment, though in pretty poor taste does not make for banning does it? Or have I missed something else he's said?

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:34 / 17.07.06

Well, Mathlete, it seems pretty clear from the discussion so far that it is more than a single comment, doesn't it? So, presumably he has said other things. At present, what he has said, and how he has said it, can be found neatly contained, essentially, in two threads, one in the Head Shop and one in the Switchboard.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:38 / 17.07.06

You forgot Books.

16:38 / 17.07.06

Here and here, Math.

paranoidwriter waves hello

16:38 / 17.07.06

And in Books... Just for clarity's sake... Not that I'm getting involved or anything... Oh shit, not again...

16:38 / 17.07.06

I think you mean Books, Haus, not Switchboard.

16:40 / 17.07.06

Wow, everyone posted at once.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:40 / 17.07.06

Sorry - Books, not Switchboard. It's just that both his threads are actually one thread, that should be in Switchboard.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:40 / 17.07.06

...or AnotherBoard.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:42 / 17.07.06

Wow, everyone posted at once.

It's the rare opportunity to correct Haus. Everyone gets overeager.

paranoidwriter waves hello

16:42 / 17.07.06

Does that mean officially I get the Bronze medal? I've never won a medal...

16:43 / 17.07.06

Mathlete, wasn't there discussion recently about your fondness for posting in Policy? There are two threads which you been going for a number of days which you clearly haven't read, or been involved in, yet you still feel fit to comment? Perhaps try reading them first before making your mind up.

16:45 / 17.07.06

To be fair, reading this thread wouldn't have made much difference, but maybe reading the whole thread referenced initially might have.

Some Switchboard stuff here, not really of the same 'quality'.

Jawsus-son Starship

17:00 / 17.07.06

So, so sorry illmatic.

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