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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Star Wars - Episode III - Revenge Of The Sith (SPOILERS)

  
  

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Triplets
23:04 / 19.08.04
Stoat, cartoons are the new sequels.

Batman TAS, Clone Wars, Animatrix. I think, generally, the reason they blow the shit out of the actual sequels is because they're given to people/fans who know the original and have a love for it but like to put their own spin and touch to it. Thus it feels fresh, new and their love for the original work is felt.

The thing is, with Matrix sequels and the 'Wars prequels, the original creators just want to bash out the first movie again. No one likes rehashed mash.

Also, the problem with sequels is that they're usually, blatantly, done 'fo da moneys'
 
 
Haus of Mystery
00:34 / 20.08.04
But Mel Gibson would still be Mel Gibson.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
00:41 / 20.08.04
Oops. Didn't mean to post that here. Bed now.
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:55 / 20.08.04
And there was an animated Riddick prequel from Peter Chung, wasn't there? So far all strictly DVD/video releases. We can only hope this trend will eventually lead to some decent big-screen western animé not aimed at kids...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:21 / 20.08.04
Man, Clone Wars would absolutely fucking RULE on a big screen...
 
 
FinderWolf
19:24 / 20.08.04
>> So, was the Star Wars Christmas Special canon?

NO. Lucas has practically seen it to it that all copies were burned and tries to fight the bootlegging of it. He is embarrassed by it and doesn't like when people mention it.

Not canon. You'll never see it officially released. It's a part of Lucas' past he'd like to forget ever happened.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
19:57 / 20.08.04
that's stupid, I've got an .avi of it and it's worthy camp. Plus, it's the first appearance of Boba Fett.

Damn Lucas.
 
 
dsalvatore
02:23 / 21.08.04
I haven't been reading spoilers, so I don't know if this has been disproved or even (gasp!) confirmed or not, but...

My dad has this really compelling theory that Count Dooku is going to reveal himself to be Anakin's father and Anakin will be told by Sidious to "kill your father and take his place at my side"--and unlike Luke, Anakin will go through with it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:41 / 21.08.04
The Christmas Special is pretty fucking dire. Chewbacca visits his family for Christmas.
 
 
Benny the Ball
12:15 / 21.08.04
The animated bit was good. It was followed by the premier of Pac Man the animated series if I remember correctly.

PM - little brat with yank haircut spoils the myth
AOTC - bad pouty actor spits out dire-logue, spoils the myth

Everything that involves actors and Lucas is shite, CGI pisses me off, so my hopes aren't high. More and more, Empire looks like a real movie made by a real director getting performances out of actors that mean something. That bearded prick messed it up with his re-jigs (I hated, HATED that Vader has some speach with a trooper after Luke has jumped, it worked perfectly with a terse 'Bring my shuttle' of old. The man has no respect for fans, just some jumped up deluded belief that it's his dream, all his, so get your fan boy hands off (liked to have seen him make another studio film if ANH had bombed) I hate the man, and his deluded sense that computer games are films. If he had respect for fans he would offer the films jiggable how they want it. Greedo would never shoot first, nor would Jabba appear in any film but Jedi, nor would Boba Fett pop up every five fucking minutes to play to some sad fat fuck in a dandruff littered Red Dwarf tee-shirt's wet dream.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:56 / 21.08.04
My dad has this really compelling theory that Count Dooku is going to reveal himself to be Anakin's father and Anakin will be told by Sidious to "kill your father and take his place at my side"--and unlike Luke, Anakin will go through with it.

That's super-plausible.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
17:26 / 21.08.04
ooof...i should have been keeping a closer eye on this topic. missed some good discussion.

first...I sort of like the prequels, AOTC sort of a lot. they aren't the originals, of course, and don't capture the same feeling in the least, but they are pretty swell swashbuckling sci-fi movies. for the longest time, i didn't even own Phantom cause after the first 2 or 3 times I saw it in the theater (gasp! sorry, it was the mob mentality of those days), I really started to hate it. Ugh, Jar Jar.

But, I recently bought it on DVD, and I have to admit, it's much better than I originally thought. I've accepted the fact of it, and now I just enjoy some of the parts to it. and...I like little anakin sometimes. some of his acting is pretty good, given that he is talking to a green screen for most of the movie.

And, I came out of AOTC liking it a lot. I love the Yoda/Dooku battle. I'm one of THOSE that think that seeing Yoda flip around with a lightsaber was perfect for him. Finally, we see why Yoda is the top Jedi.

And Clone Wars is badass. Come on. Gennady makes the best the action sequences ever. it's nothing great in story department, but are they suppose to be? no, they just fill in the action of the war, and it's pretty entertaining action at that.

My feeling on the prequels is that they make the entire saga all the more tragic. Tragic in 2 senses. 1) Look at all the lost grandeur of the Old Republic. The Old Republic had been around for thousands of years, and since it had become stagnant by this time, it was ripe for corruption from the Sith. and 2) The Anakin story... to me, it perfectly illustrates the utter tragedy of Vader's story. I can't explain it, but that's the feeling I get from it.

I wouldn't consider myself a rabid fanboy, either. I was skeptical of both. After living with Ep1 for awhile, I had no hopes for Ep2, but it turned out to be really good (for me). The romance was awkward, but romance for teenagers IS awkward, right? Palpatine's manipulation of both sides, the way the Jedi were manuevered into using the Clones. It was pretty deft.

Anyway, flame away. But I look forward to Revenge.
 
 
Spaniel
17:38 / 21.08.04
Yep, so far the prequels have been crap, crap, crap. Clone Wars, on the other hand, is (more often than not) imaginative, exciting and suitably starwarsy. Of course, five minute episodes are not immediately endearing, sgood when you got 'em collected, however.

So then, what about the forthcoming tv series?
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:27 / 22.08.04
The Yoda Dooku thing was CGI, so I found it horrible to watch. This is just an opinion I have, CGI for back grounds doesn't bother me in the least, but for people it bugs me to death. Yes it couldn't have been done as energetically with puppets or models, but I just don't like it. I'm too much of a Harrihausen child, give me clunky models and stop motion any day. It also smacked of more, something for the fans, didn't add to the story - if anything it took away from the tired Yoda of the later films. I agree that the films should have been set a Looooong time ago, a real history builder. It feels as though Lucas has got himself trapped in trying to link everything together, and not really doing such a great job - I mean Obi Wan has gone from late 30's to 70's over a thirteen year period, and he doesn't remember R2, even though they have a small bond in PM (yeah, you could argue that droids are a dime a dozen, but he singles R2 out).

So far the only moment that has stood out for me as being anything like the old trilogy in terms of that wonderful feeling of being in something special, was in PM when the music builds, the doors open, there is Maul, and Liam Neeson says 'we'll handle this' - you really got a sense that the Jedi operate on a higher level at that moment.
 
 
Enjay
03:52 / 23.08.04
Some thoughts:

Ten years from now, will those watching the Star Wars series for the first time watch the six movies in the order in which they were made, or the order in which they are, apparently, intended to be watched?

If somebody watched Episodes 1 to 3 having never seen Episodes 4 to 6, what would they think of the films?

If Episodes 4-6 are in fact 'better' than Episodes 1-3, does that not make sense? That is, won't the newcomer's enjoyment of the series increase?

Would somebody who has not yet watched Episodes 4-6 be shocked to learn in Episode 3 that Chancellor Palpatine is - gasp! - Darth Sidious?
 
 
Benny the Ball
10:40 / 23.08.04
Sadly, I don't think they will. There are no characters to love in 1-3, unlike 4-5. Then there is a bit of a playing out the same routine feel (the old wizened jedi being killed in the first film, the second one trying to be more about characters) the only difference being that maybe 3 will have such a downbeat ending that it will give a new punch 4-6. However, noone seems to care about Sidious and Palpintine, also, how are they going to leave things ambiguous enough so that Empire's payoff revelation isn't just a 'yeah but we knew that from episode 3' moment? Based on how poorly Lucas has been telling his own story of late, my hopes aren't too high.
 
 
Lord Morgue
12:07 / 23.08.04
He really should have got his old pals who helped him write the original scripts to give the new dialogue some pizazz. Then again, after Howard the Duck, they're probably buried out in the desert somewhere.
Out in the desert at Skywalker Ranch, "Casino" style.

Heh, heh, I can see why the officers in ANH weren't yet properly terrified of Vader. I mean, for all they knew, he was just the Emperor's pet Gimp. "Bring out the Gimp!"
 
 
fluid_state
13:36 / 23.08.04
A friend of mine, after having seen Eps I & II, is dead convinced that Lucas didn't write anything after Star Wars (in such a case, I'd picture him as more of an overweight, over-enthused manager making demands from a high chair; demands along the lines of: "This scene would look great with Vader riding a giant spider! No, a jet black tauntaun! You guys are awesome, I know you can pull it off!").

I can kind of see why Lucas would be, well, allowed to make such shite, both the prequels and the "Special Olympic" editions of 4-6. He rocketed to fame in a rather unexpected manner with his little space opera, and parlayed that success into cinematic autonomy. Freedom from the studios, and their egos, input, and money, is pretty much unheard of, especially to the scale of LucasFilm. Eps 4-6 raised the bar for merchandising empires by about 3 notches, seemingly overnight. He carved out a little creative empire that that became a model for success and the leading creative resource (Industrial Light and Magic) for the industry.

Then, he seemingly didn't really write, direct, or otherwise exercise those creative muscles again for more than a decade. What, or who, made him believe that undertaking three more Star Wars films after such a long period of relative creative isolation was a good idea, well.... I think that'll be the focus of many a dissertation 10 years hence. Not to mention a cautionary tale or two.

(I know I'm giving Lucas a little too much individual credit, as opposed to the team of people gathered around him, but for the sake of simplicity...)
 
 
Triplets
13:45 / 23.08.04
Is it still possible to get hold of 4-6 in their original form on VHS?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:07 / 23.08.04
Weird...the final line says it all.

>> Lucas To Make 'Star Wars' Sequels?

>> Star Wars creator George Lucas could be poised to make three sequels to the original space opera trilogy, according to insiders at Lucasfilm. According to fan site Theforce.Net, employees at Lucas's company Industrial Light And Magic (ILM) have all been made to sign non-disclosure agreements to promise not to talk about the possibility of episode's seven, eight and nine being made. Now industry insiders are predicting the American Graffiti director will make the follow-ups, which pick up where 1983's Return Of The Jedi left off, despite insisting he would never be lured into filming them. A posting on the site says, "You didn't hear this from me, but you might be curious as to why everyone at ILM just signed NDA's saying that they will not discuss Star Wars episodes 7, 8, or 9. Since they're not being made, why the NDA's? Of course, since when has Lucas been consistent?"
 
 
Benny the Ball
14:12 / 23.08.04
Christ. Where will he go with this?

We'll be left with one film out of nine that is any good. Star Wars is becoming increasingly like some A Nightmare on Friday the Halloween part XXX franchise.

As for the old VHS, they are no longer available, they discontinue each batch when the next ones are churned out, so you'll have a hunt on finding them.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
14:14 / 23.08.04
(I know I'm giving Lucas a little too much individual credit, as opposed to the team of people gathered around him, but for the sake of simplicity...)

Honestly? It's the team of people that keep me interested in these movies. For me the drawing point of the films is always the amazing amount of detail and the incredible design work. Sure Jar Jar is an annoying, cloying, joke of a character, but the first time he walked into a frame a frickin' rivited, just at the craftsmanship of it. Same with the Yoda lightsaber battle. (Fuck, Yoda in general in Ep II. That shot of him in deep contemplation during the huge battle, with clonetrooper waiting behind him? He WAS ALIVE.) Lucas obviously is both a pedestrian writer and director, but the he knows exactly how to get truly creative people to give him their best work, and that's been the most revelatory parts of the Prequel Trilogy. The imagination of like thousands of people, all stapled together into one glorious Print Shop Banner (Damn, remember those Dot Matrix things? Wicked.)
 
 
Spaniel
16:41 / 23.08.04
...Does not a good film make.

Finder I think your quote is months old. Haven't you heard the news about the SW tv series starring none other than Boba Fett?

I kid you not.

Run a search on AICN if you don't believe me.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:10 / 23.08.04
DVDs made from the original 4-6 Laserdiscs are available all the time on eBay. Of course, they are unsanctioned by LFL. but who cares about them? they stopped caring about fans awhile ago.

um...regarding 7,8,9...TFN is notoriously sensational and will print just about any SW tip they get. not sure what to make of this...i sort of doubt it will happen.

TV series: isn't this still rumor? LFL hasn't confirmed this, right? there hasn't been an official press release...to my knowledge.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:29 / 27.08.04
it's still making very very recent news:

8/26/04

from www.darkhorizons.com:

>> For a few days now the talk of the Net seems to have been the reports that movement on the sequel trilogy to "Star Wars" has been happening after a report popped up at TheForce.Net indicating that employees at Lucas' FX company, Industrial Light & Magic, have signed non-disclosure agreements that legally prevents them from discussing anything associated with Episodes 7-9.

Now E! Online has some further information. A rep for Lucasfilm has, at least on official levels, canned any possibility of any more films. About this talk, spokeswoman Lynn Fox says "The rumors are absolutely untrue...Star Wars: Episode III--Revenge of the Sith is our last and final installment". Fox also confirmed no non-disclosure was ever signed pertaining to future episodes.

Nevertheless the ForceNet guys are sticking to their guns, editor Josh Griffin saying about the rumours they first published - "Obviously, there is some movement on episodes on VII, VII and IX. It's obviously something to do with special effects...There's absolutely no reason to do that unless they have something to disclose". They also say an Australian source has confirmed talk of Lucas' desire to shoot the films Down Under like he did with the last two prequels.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:57 / 27.08.04
saw this on the net and had to post it...I don't even know who MC Chris, but this is pretty funny.

-------------------------------------------------

FETT'S VETTE
lyrics by c.ward
music by j.fewell

cruisin mos espa in my delorian
war's over I'm a peacetime madalorian
my story has stumped star wars historians
deep in debate buffet plate at bennigans
rhyme renegade sure to penetrate
first and second defense I won't hesitate
got a job to do darth's the guy that delegates
got something against skywalker someone he really hates
I don't give a fuck I'm after solo
For all I care he could be hiding at yoda's dojo
Got make the money credit's no good
When the jawas run the shop in your neighborhood
Think you can cook I got a grappling hook
Let's make this quick cuz I'm really booked
I'm a devious degenerate, defender of the devil
Shut down all the trash compactor's on the detention level

chorus
My backpack's got jets
I'm boba the fett
I bounty hunt for jaba hut
To finance my vette
I chill in deep space
A mask is over my face
I deliver the prize but I still narrow my eyes
Cuz my time I don't like to waste.
Get down

I'm a question wrapped inside an enigma
Get inside the slave one find your homing signal
From endor to hoth, ripley to spock
I'll find what you want, but there's gonna be a cost
Say my name is boba fett I know my shit is tight
Start not acting in right, you're frozen in carbonite
Got telescopic sight, flame throwers on my wrist
You still don't get the jist, spiked boots are made to kick
Targets are made to hit, you think I give a shit
Yer mama is a bitch, I see you in the sarlaac pit
You just flipped my switch integrity been dissed
You scratchin on my itch you know I shoot the gift
Got bambinas at cantinas waitin to lick my lusty lips
So I'll let you get back inside you're little space ship
Give you a head start, cuz I'm the sportin kind
Consider the starting line the sneaky smile I hide inside
Hope you have hyper drive, pray to stay alive
Don't try to slip me a five cuz I never take a bribe
To the beat of a different drummer, bad ass bounty hunter
Let no man put asunder or else they be put under
As in six feet, got an imperial fleet
Backin me up gonna blow up any attempt to defeat
They gotta death star, got four payments on my car
Hand it over to hammer head at mos eisley bar
He used to carjack, now he's a barback
Just goes to show how you can get back on the right track
As for me that's not an option can't say that with more clarity
Me going legit would be like jar jar in speech therapy

chorus
 
 
Lord Morgue
05:12 / 28.08.04
I heard Sean Astin tried talking to Lucas at a party, got snubbed with the line "I'm sorry, all you Hobbits look alike to me." Astin was shattered, as any Gen-Xer would be, getting dissed by The Storyteller, but managed to shoot back, "Yeah, well Jar-Jar SUCKED, man!"
 
 
Triplets
12:40 / 28.08.04
Nevertheless the ForceNet guys are sticking to their guns

IT'S TRUE BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO BE TRUE! THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS!
 
 
FinderWolf
12:54 / 28.08.04
If that Astin story's true, then Lucas is even more of a moron/asshole than I thought.
 
 
Lord Morgue
05:24 / 29.08.04
I remember when the news first broke that Peter Jackson had landed the Lord of the Rings rights, Lucas went on record as saying that he didn't think anyone but Industrial Light and Magic had the resources and skill to bring such a film to life.

Silly old cunt. Does he have any idea of Jackson's credentials?! He came up the hard way, doing his own camerawork, special effects, producing and directing, doing everything on both sides of the camera, often on a zero budget. He knows everything about prosthetics, puppetry, and stopmotion, and the Frighteners had more C.G.I. than any other film at the time. All this while Lucas was doing what? Spanking his Wookie on Skywalker Ranch, that's what.

Yeah, there's no love lost between the two camps, but taking things out on the actors... wow.
 
 
Lord Morgue
13:51 / 29.08.04
I pray to Nabiki Tendo that if they do make another 3, Lucas lets other directors handle it, like Empire and Return (Grr, why didn't he let the original directors do the "Special Editions"?).
Can you imagine Star Wars by John Woo, or Sam Raimi, or Tarantino? Or fuckin' Jim Jarmusch!
Or... Woody Allen!
"My father was a Jedi? Oh, I think I'd better sit down."
 
 
grant
01:43 / 30.08.04
eah, there's no love lost between the two camps, but taking things out on the actors... wow.

Well, Astin got to go to the Oscars, while Lucas got stuck with Jar-Jar jokes. I think Lucas probably blames LOTR for that -- couldn't they have waited another six years to capture the geek public's imagination??
 
 
John Brown
03:11 / 03.09.04
As long as the decadence of the Republic has come up, I'll just float my own little post-CW theory:

Yoda knows who and what Palpatine is and what he's planning. Yoda's decided that the Jedi have become complacent, arrogant, and ultimately ineffectual (see, e.g., the previously mentioned tolerance for slavery). He's seen enough of the future to know that Anakin is likely to have children who can, if they survive, become the founders of a new Jedi Order, after Vader and Palpatine have wiped out all the others. He's willing to allow the Jedi to be destroyed in the hope that they can be reborn and revitalized with a new Republic.

Of course, that's not really the case, since Lucas will never allow it to be, but Yoda's speech at the Jedi Academy, his obviously suffering (but willing) use of the clone army, and his "inability" to prevent Dooku's escape seem to imply it anyway.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:30 / 03.09.04
Morgue: "Directors" is not the issue. Writers are the issue...
 
 
fluid_state
13:50 / 03.09.04
mmm. Well said. I get the feeling Lucas surrounded himself with at least one imaginative sycophant that's trying to recreate the best kids movie he saw in 1999. Having Yoda fight seems almost missing the point of the Jedi, or at least of the gentle philosphy they espouse. I mean, I figured Yoda was top dawg because he didn't need to fight. Having one's ass kicked by a muppet leads to anger, and so on unto generational conflict. I realize it wouldn't have made fanboys drool, but it would have been way cooler if Yoda just kept absorbing that lightning, and saying "all you have, that is?"... and, I dunno, we get Count Dooku suddenly having flashbacks to some various events in his life that made him justified in his...uh, Sith-ness. Going back to Palpatine with a little splinter of Yoda, worming it's way toward his heart... and all for naught in the face of the Empire.

That said, I'm still looking forward to Episode III. If only to spark better ideas...
 
  

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