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Seaguy #3

 
  

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The Falcon
09:37 / 23.07.04
Yeah, and the butterfly is Vertzebelion. Something I totally failed to pick up my first few reads.

Man-on-insect love action. Sickening.

I thought the Doc Hero stuff was funny: 'Are you a bird?', 'Are you a bug?' Cruel too, I guess.

They're definitely manufacturing talking pets at the end there; see the snailshell?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:16 / 23.07.04
That scene really disturbed me. I knew something was up with that scene in the first issue, and seeing the smiling Bob Dobbs/Doc Magnus-like Doc Hero reduced to a whimpering mess was nasty. I really have to re-read it.
 
 
bigsunnydavros
10:41 / 23.07.04
Ooooh -- loved this!

I noticed that some folk (not so much here, but on the internet in general) seem to have found issue's #2 and #3 completely incomprehensible or something... seemed pretty straightforward to me, in a completely insane sort of way!

Very tight too -- the way the ending of this issue brings it almost full-circle... chilling and strange! But, as Flyboy said, everything's not quite how it used to be. I want more!!

The artwork was perfect throughout -- the "comfort zone" Seaguy and co live in is shiny and fun looking, just like Cameron's art, but is still very evidently sinister, something that Cameron (with no small amount of help from Peter Doherty) always keeps foregrounded.

And when we get into the high adventure stuff in issue #2, well... it looks every bit as thrilling and bizarre as it should, but there are costs to be payed for this sort of adventure, and the more melancholy/creepy elements of these parts of the stories come through brilliantly as well.

I think that was what I really liked about this series -- Seaguy is just a naive guy who wants to go on adventure, and whjo can blame him? The world he lives in is deeply sinister and flawed, but the critique of this world is, I think, stronger because Seaguy's dissatisfaction with it isn't a sneery, condescending one. He is part of "the masses" -- it's just that his taste in escapism is somewhat different from most folk's. Furthermore, as has been mentioned in discussions about issue #1, Seaguy ends up on this particular adventure (which takes him directly up against the current world order) because of his status as a consumer of Xoo. As of the end of issue #3, Xoo is still free, and is currently roaming the world as a "living pirate foodstuff." Dare I suggest that we will see more of this creature in the later volumes? Since in issue #2 it seemed to recognise and not want to hurt Seaguy and Chubby, I can only hope so!

Another thing I like is the focus on ancient civilizations with weird technology (artificial wasps that can extract oil from pollen, jackal-men who can extract "heavy air" from dung). There's a definite sense of wanting to re-discover all of this crazy stuff, but at the same time these places aren't wholly depicted in a positive light. The Pharaoh in issue #3 may have achieved something wonderfully barmy (the moon is his burial home for fuck's sake!), but he did so out of rediculous vanity and drained his people dry in the process. Similarly, for all the thrills that he may have achieved while climbing Mount Poseidon, the Wasps of Atlantis still cost Seaguy his best friend.

"Xoo is multi-purpose. Xoo is low cost. Xoo makes people happy. And what's so wrong with happy?"

So says the scary suit in issue #2 and, well, while there's nothing wrong with happy, there is something wrong going on in this world. What about the children that were being carted away in issue #1? This is another of the thematic points that I really like in this series: the idea that in defeating Anti-Dad the heroes had defeated evil seems to me to be analogous with the idea of fighting a sucessful war on terror. Evil cannot be vanquished in a big heroic fight; people will still want to nasty stuff after the dust has settled. It is a part of human nature, and to ignore this fact is folly.

The ending of issue #3 is, I think, the most upsetting and sucessful part of the book so far. The scene's with Seaguy and Doc Hero being reprogrammed were funny and nasty in equal measures, and as for Lucky El Loro, I hate the bastard, but this is surely the point. He matches the same formula as Chubby, but somehow completley lacks the charm of that character.

All said, the last page is probably my favourite one -- the Eye Moon and "No XOO Today"/"Sold Out" signs, as well as the prescence of Lucky, make that little wink Seaguy gives all the more unsettling. He thinks he's playing a game with no stakes, but he as we know far to well, he's very, very wrong.

Good god, this post is getting out of hand. Anyway, suffice it to say that this rocked me more than any Morrison project since... I dunno, either Kill Your Boyfriend of Flex Mentallo, and that I am eager for more. I want to see this world fleshed out more; I want to learn what's going on with Seadog in greater detail; I want to see Seaguy get another chance. Mission accomplished, guys -- I'm hooked!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:52 / 23.07.04
The wink is really interesting - some people seem to think it means that Seaguy's not been brainwashed and is just pretending, but it seems more likely that he's referring to the Gondolier's colour-blindness and so as suggested above, thinks he's in on the joke but isn't... In fact the weak link might be the Gondolier, who doesn't seem to be able to hide his shock at seeing Seaguy again. He's the one who remembers...
 
 
bigsunnydavros
11:14 / 23.07.04
Yeah, I considered the possibility that the wink had that meaning too. It's certainly not impossible, and I like the hint of ambiguity, but... my gut reaction is that he thinks he's in the know but really isn't. That's a good point about the gondolier though: he's definitely uneasy with the situation and... have I mentioned that I really want more Seaguy yet?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
12:42 / 23.07.04
So says the scary suit in issue #2 and, well, while there's nothing wrong with happy, there is something wrong going on in this world.

And what's also great about that is that in the mise en scene no one at all, except the brainwashed Super-Heroes, are happy. All the park visitors are grumpy and/or terrified, they're embarassed about having to carry around dumbass iron umbrellas, etc.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:05 / 23.07.04
More now!

Cameron, please make us all a pretend issue for next month. Just a little one.

I love all the shifts of tone in this, and how the Egyptian flashbacks feel like a crazy Saturday morning cartoon and yet it ends up feeling like your heart's been broken and is doomed forever, as you come to understand just how awful this reality is (rather that the hints of before).

That's why I need more. To mend my heart. My heart! This serves as a super nice intro, to the actual nature of their world, at least. As well as hinting at so much more beyond that! And being a wonderful story in itself. I really like where this is going, volume-wise. I'm really quite excited for future possibilities!

I'll e-mail DC, but I'll try and sound less crazy so they listen to me.
 
 
bigsunnydavros
13:08 / 23.07.04
"And what's also great about that is that in the mise en scene no one at all, except the brainwashed Super-Heroes, are happy. All the park visitors are grumpy and/or terrified, they're embarassed about having to carry around dumbass iron umbrellas, etc."

That's a damned fine point you've got there... a damned fine point! Can't wait to re-read this series as a whole!
 
 
pornotaxi
13:33 / 23.07.04
seaguy ate chubby between end of #2 and start of #3. he only punched the seagull so he could finish his dinner in peace. you can see the angst on his face. bad seaguy!
 
 
FinderWolf
13:34 / 23.07.04
I LOVED THIS!!! Great job to both Moz and Cam. I was laughing out loud like every other minute in the first half of the book, then felt uncomfortably creeped-out. I gasped out loud when I saw Chubby's fishy spine and Seaguy still talking to him as if he were still alive and had a fighting chance. I felt so bad for Seaguy when the yipping Anubises/jackals (loved them, and the "All that yipping must drive you crazy") comment took him away from Chubby's corpse - - and there was no going back. I didn't sense Chubby would be magically restored to life, and he wasn't. And I could just picture/hear the sound of the yips in my head!

I feel like it's a toss-up whether this is the first time that the Eye has 're-educated' Seaguy, but I'm leaning towards it being the first time. I think it's pretty clear that Lotharius/Seadog and Butterfly are romantically/spiritually entwined but Seadog lusts after She-Beard and the butterfly is jealous. The butterfly seems evil/corporate corrupt, but yet the butterly bemoans the lack of romance in their lives (and in their relationship as well)?

Gotta look up the mythological names of the Butterfly and the Mickey Eye Scarab...

>> Those who rebel are given just enough rope to hang themselves? Those in control of the system like to amuse themselves by imposing conformity by allowing people to pursue their dreams just far enough? A Clockwork Orange for men in wetsuits? I mean WHAT? UH?

Um, maybe you hit the nail on the head right there.

I think Seaguy remembers from the wink.

"No Xoo Today" and the Moon-as-Mickey Eye escaped me too on the first read, but got me on the second.

"Sooo, the moon is a giant tomb and you're its mummy pilot? ...I'll buy that." LOVED THIS!!!

The mummy's grunts and sounds (and then subsequent normal speech) also cracked me up.

Is Esperanto a real language or what? Isn't there a car called an Esperanto also??

The snail shell was also one of the heroes from the big Anti-Dad fight, glimpsed in the double-page spread in issue 1.

An early poster on issue 1 named lots of the characters in the big anti-Dad fight. I named some too - I came up with something else for what turned out to be Robomonkey -- it was something like "_____ chimp," I'll have to go check my notebook....

DOC HERO'S HAT IS NOT STUPID, DAMMIT!!!! FIGHT THE POWER, DOC, and don't let them make you feel that your helmet (or love of comic books, for that matter) is stupid & lame!!!

So much to write about... the Egyptian sequences were amazing. And I felt the exact same way in sensing a bit of Quitely influence, be it conscious or unconscious, intetional or unintentional on Cam's part, in some of Cam's faces in this issue, much moreso than in issues 1 and 2.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:44 / 23.07.04
I also thought about the 'does the wink mean he think's he's all cool cause he knows the gondolier's colorblind, or that he remembers the previous adventure and the loss of Chubby?' question...it could be both, or one, or the other...

>> as for Lucky El Loro, I hate the bastard, but this is surely the point. He matches the same formula as Chubby, but somehow completley lacks the charm of that character.

Well said. I guess "parrot" is something like "oro" (probably starting with a different letter, given that "Tuna" became "Choona") in Spanish?
 
 
Triplets
13:59 / 23.07.04
No, loro is parrot in spanish. It's spot on.

Haven't bought Seaguy #3 yet, but hell, I like being spoiled
 
 
FinderWolf
14:03 / 23.07.04
One thing I found a bit wonky at first read was the coloring on the shot of the huge moon being built amidst the pyramids - the coloring was so light and hazy (almost fading to light-yellow on white towards the top of the page) in comparison to the land, pyramids, people in the distance that I wasn't sure at first whether it was the actual moon in the distance he was building or the pharoah's dream-hope-goal image in the sky of the moon. Of course, when I turned the page and saw the explosion launch the moon into orbit, I realized it was in fact the real moon.
 
 
captainkyle
15:08 / 23.07.04
my thought about the ending was that since seaguy calls him "gondolier" and not "death," he remembers some, if not all of what has come before.
 
 
The Natural Way
16:28 / 23.07.04
Who knows about that wink?

Ambiguity, very good. Mmmm.

thought it wa v. funny when he punched the seagull

Punching seagull, very good. Mmmm.

Seaguy really makes you feel like you've got yr money's worth.
 
 
The Natural Way
16:31 / 23.07.04
Can't wait for We3.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:10 / 23.07.04
I wonder if the Butterfly is SEADOG's equivilent to Chubby da Chuna?

perhaps he's as much a prisoner as all the others with that little bit of power keeping him as docile.

Meanwhile Shebeard is the true subversive...
 
 
Triplets
17:11 / 23.07.04
Me2.
 
 
eric minutes
17:24 / 23.07.04
Some body mentioned this before,and upon re-reading it started to make sense...Chubby is never really seen interacting with any one other than Sea Guy and Death...it hit me the most when they got captured out side of XOO Industries...they have Sea Guy locked in a room,but where is Chubby? When Sea Guy busts loose, Chubby is magically outside...that mixed with Chubby's comment that he's not even supposed to exist.

And what about Sea Guy's comment : "And you can be white". It could be because death is color blind...but in the begining was Sea Guy white? The way he blows everybody off and goes straight for death so determined got me thinking that he still remembers Chubby with out a doubt(in #3 I couldn't beleive how many times he mentioned Chubby)and is now going to willingly loose to go with Death to find his best bud.Is this too far fetched?
 
 
Triplets
17:24 / 23.07.04
OMG butterfree = raged robin = 0raclE?

Tehy tryying to balnce teh Seaguy equatiun!!1!
 
 
Triplets
17:26 / 23.07.04
Sounds good, Eric. And Seaguy was white [even though he was playing with Death's pieces]... but that [Superman] wink... hmm.
 
 
■
17:46 / 23.07.04
Hmm. Seaguy was playing white in the first game, as he cheated to win by taking Death's executioner with his own piece.

Additionally, this all helps makes sense of Doc Hero's statement in issue 1 that "they told me you'd bring me a beer" or somesuch. They've been around this a few times.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:24 / 23.07.04
how does this make sense of the "they told me you'd bring me a beer" dialogue? I'm not clear on this one.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
20:39 / 23.07.04
Is Esparanto real? Of COURSE it is!

http://www.esperanto.net/info/index_en.html

Most famously associated with being the universal language of the future in Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat novels and with the all Esparanto William Shatner movie, Incubus.
 
 
Sax
20:56 / 23.07.04
No. The gods conspire against me. Delivery delayed at comic shop yesterday and went in today in rush and had to leave because there was a child in there buying dolls of Doctor Fucking Octopus or something.

A child. In a comic shop.

Great Rao, what next?

And I can't get Seaguy until next week, now.

I'm moving to have this thread deleted.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
21:31 / 23.07.04
fuckin trauma non?

loved the wee pharaoh: "too! small!"

seemed to go on forever, this issue.
 
 
The Natural Way
21:59 / 23.07.04
Which is cause for celebration, surely?

!

Anyway, I think my favourite thing about this book really has little to do with the themes/concepts at play. The disneyfication of consciousness is a meaty theme and a rich soil for beards (Our imagination imprisoned in a generic inky suit and its will to be free!), but what I love about this book is its dreaminess. The sudden scene shifts; the sleepy, luminous world-without-heroes; the Little Nemo-esque crazy/creepy adventures, the water and the journey to the moon.

In fact, that whole sequence with the bucket! I'm sure loads of us have had dreams involving some kind of outer-space elevator before. I know I have, true believer, and I'm married!

Just like Grant Morrison.
 
 
Nakkurusu
00:19 / 24.07.04
For some reason I feel like Seaguy having Lucky El Loro now is the equivalent of a parent just saying, "We'll just buy you a new one!" We'll keep you happy.

God, I'm now scared of the line "And there's nothing wrong with being happy? (Is there?)"

With the pyramid/moon, chocolate covered ice caps and Atantis the whole world feels like a fairy tale, which maintains it's magical tone despite the seriousness of situations.
 
 
ciarconn
21:34 / 24.07.04
Hey, and what if the heroes won against anti-dad and it's them who set this Happy-World Status Quo?
 
 
--
03:44 / 25.07.04
It was brilliant. That's all I'll say for now. Still liked "The Filth" more though, only because of the bizarre circumstances that seemed to occur around each issue for me. "Seaguy"'s dark whimsy was very appealing however.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought that Seadog came off like the Architect (not that I'm saying GM's doing a rip-off here...)
 
 
The Natural Way
11:58 / 25.07.04
It's funny what different posters find interesting.

Sauron's the best hyperlink I can come up with: the all seeing EYE! And I love the idea that Hewligan may have booked a package tour to Lostralia via the Easter Island Heads. Seaguy reminds me so much of the fun-infused, early nineties Revolver/2000ad stuff. Evidence of Morrison's push for a new era of psychedelic silliness.

Anyway, it could be that the heroes put this world in place (the dark shadow of Teknostritch hanging over everyone and all that), but they would be picking on their own kind, and that's just not cool....
 
 
The Natural Way
12:02 / 25.07.04
Oh, and I forgot to mention how many big laffs there were this time round:

"Guess that proves senior citizens never know when to quit."

"Is madness tearing our hero-team apart?"

Ace. Big laffs.
 
 
The Falcon
12:23 / 25.07.04
Loadsa Big B stuff too.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:56 / 26.07.04
Big B?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:07 / 26.07.04
Big Brother (UK).
 
  

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